Creationists Try to Outsmart Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Great Flood and Climate Change

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/creationists-try-outsmart-neil-degrasse-tyson-great-flood-and-climate-change



The great flood as told in the Bible is a myth; a story retold through the generations that predates Christianity itself. Meanwhile, the Epic of Gilgamesh is the same story, but thousands of years older, according to Neil deGrasse Tyson in the latest installment of the television series, Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey.

Biblical literalist Christians, as you might expect, are not happy with this version of events.

Creationist Ken Ham’s group, Answers in Genesis (AiG), were at the forefront of complaints, stating, “The Epic of Gilgamesh contains one of the hundreds of flood legends that abound in cultures all over the world. These legends are ubiquitous because all people in the world are descendants of Noah’s family, the only people to survive the global Flood.” They continue, “The biblical historical account, recorded under the inspiration of God by Moses, is completely believable in all its details.”

Yet, in reality, neither myth is believable for countless reasons. The first reason is literally the very large elephant in the room, which is how does one fit millions of species onto one boat?

[DetlefK]

1. Mankind has failed God and deserves to die?

That's the basic difference between theits and atheists: We atheists believe that we shape our fate, while theists believe that a higher power shapes their fate.

[randr]

8. A belief in a "god" is one way to avoid personal responsibilty

Denial of personal responsibility is a core aspect of right wing conservative thinking. They see themselves as victims and never acknowledge their own role in the making of their lives.

[AngryDem001]

24. YES!

Right wingers love to say "It's in God's hands" or "It's all part of God's plan". Which translates to: "I don't have to lift a finger."

[dawg]

28. I've always wanted to smack them in the forehead and say, "That was part of his plan, too!"

And I'm a Christian.

God doesn't always get his way. Every time one of us does something selfish or mean, God doesn't get his way.

It's called Free Will. Although, admittedly, fewer and fewer of my fellow believers actually believe in it.

[Bickle]

35. Not much of a god then us it?

Free will is impossible, biologically and theologically

We have proven countless times that the brain reacts to chemical and physical things that are beyond conscious control. That you can make people do things with things as simple as an electromagnetic field. That damage can create whole new people.

A being who know and sees all has known from the beginning of time what will happen, and in the extraordinarily unlikely event the Christian god exists, it is a sadistic monster (outside of the plethora of OT examples, where in the story it is merely one of many) do you give birth to a child just to spank it? Your god does.

So n, free will in the Christian concept does not exist. We are products of our biology and our environment, and while that may lead to the need to be kept away from more stable and productive organisms for the good of the whole, the idea that everyone just decides to do things is erroneous and dangerous.

Did you decide to be Christian? I bet not. Your parents programmed you to believe a fairy tale as true. Your choice to believe in god was not conscious for 90% plus of people. If we had free will, religion would be banned before adulthood, as they strike when you're most vulnerable, and programmed by nature to assimilate survival information, including keeping the profit and power centers of religion going. "Give me a child before seven, and I'll give you the man"

[dawg]

36. If you want to believe that you have no free will, then more power to you I guess.

I will choose a bathysphere.




^^^^^
That's Neil Peart, drumming. Wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand my silly Rush pun.

[Bickle]

67. It's not a belief, it's a fact

It's been proven.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

The simplest example is the Pavlobian response. When I open a safety seal, my cats mouth uncontrollably waters. Because his favorite treat has a safety seal. The same things happen to people. PTSD is related

Serial Killers, child molestors, they are compelled to do it. They literally cannot stop themselves. No one with free will decides its fun to do those things.

You are not religious because you decided to be. You were programmed. Evangelical pastors yes a cadence of speech with literal, proven hypnotic effects so powerful they drive people to endorphin highs so severe they babble uncontrollably (speaking in tongues). This is an unconscious response that overrides reason.

Your church lies to you, because they wants to keep you a paying customer, and freely you can't exist without them, even so far as putting a gun to your head (hell). Former Christians often talk about the illogical fears that their emotional mind has yet to overcome.

It's not a belief. It's emperically supported

[dawg]

80. Whateva.

[Vattel]

81. The article you link to does not claim that anyone has proven free will to be an illusion.

No one has proven it one way or the other.

[Bickle]

86. Wrong sA piece

But here's more

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/science/02free.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/no-you-dont-have-free-will-and-this-is-why/

http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/17/my-brain-made-me-do-it-psychopaths-and-free-will/

http://www.psychologyinaction.org/2011/11/27/decision-making-biology-free-will-and-accountability/

[Bickle]

87. Thanks for being a great example of what's wrong with our country

Being wrong has no consequences. Lying to people has no consequences. You shouldn't get to believe what you want to about important things. This is not chocolate or vanilla, Star awards vs Star Trek, or the colors of your clothing.

For examole' a person who kills people because they refuse to vaccinate their child because they are definitively wrong in sir belief vaccines cause autism is not arrested and sent to prison. There are no lawsuits that can be files against them with out proof they deliberately created a Typhoid Mary, there is no way you can even file criminal negligence. Andrew Wakefield is a free man, Because there are no consequences. They took his license, but gave him a license to literally kill juicing up desperate parents and conspiracy nuts, making more money than he ever did fabricating for lawyers

[DesertDiamond]

51. It's also true that through our own determination we can change those chemical reactions...

I've done that, as have millions of others.

[randr]

59. You may have replaced one dogma with another

Free your mind, the rest will follow.

[calimary]

64. Welcome to DU, Bickle!

Glad you're here! It's the eternal conundrum of God. We used to like to play "stump the nun/priest" during catechism class. My favorite was always - "if God can do ANYTHING, can He make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?"

Answer: "Beats the hell outta me!"

[7962]

85. Why WOULD he?

[DebJ]

73. What a sad and horrible world you live in.

We are all just robots or flotsam in the stream.

[Ikonoklast]

39. And when they get drunk, crash the car, beat their spouse, leave their kids go hungry

because they gambled all the money away, blame it all on Teh Debbil.

[valerief]

42. That's the brass ring of Christianity! nt

[calimary]

66. Welcome to DU, AngryDem001!

Good to have you with us! I tend to agree with that. It absolves them of all guilt, responsibility, or any sort of involvement. It's for the same reason I cringe when I hear people say "I'm FORGIVEN!" george w. bush used to say that fairly frequently. And I always wondered - is that why you do such horse's-ass things? Because you've got some free pass to forgiveness and it doesn't matter how much you fuck people over, 'cause you already got that free pass? So ANYTHING'S okay that you do? Even when you screw the taxpayers, make money off the poor and gullible, and send all their kids to a war you LIED us into, to die and/or get their legs blown off? Oh, but wait - you're FORGIVEN already! So none of that counts, and NONE of that is on your ledger that you're gonna have to hand in to St. Peter when you get to the Pearly Gates? You get a free pass there, too, after all the shit you pulled and all the shit you caused?

I'm a lifelong Catholic. A "Cafeteria Catholic" according to some. But I've always have trouble with that "I'm forgiven" concept. Doesn't make sense to me that - after the kind of life that bastard has lived, his mere declaration that he's "forgiven" will get him into Heaven free 'n' clear. I don't care how "forgiven" one claims to be. That is NOT some "License to be a Schmuck."

[ejpoeta]

79. i grew up in a catholic home

and we went to church. i lived in a small town and you knew what went on and what people did. it's like they'd wipe off their 'sins' on the way in and pick them back up on the way out. go to confession and say some hail marys and all is well... then go back to whatever they were doing. not sure how you can be forgiven if you keep doing what you were doing. i remember we didn't have any food in our house or running water and yet my dad would put money in the basket every sunday. he didn't put it in one of those neat envelopes they gave us with our name on it so they knew who was giving money..... we were the invisible parishoners. when my mom died, she got a by the way mention in church. like she was an afterthought after she would drag herself to church when she was so sick she had to have a 12 year old help her go to the bathroom. not all churches and priests are like ours was. but I can tell you..... i couldn't stand that priest.

[Xyzse]

46. Unless it is success or something like that.

Then, they are all like, I did this.

[malaise]

65. Precisely

[xchrom]

2. Watch: The Neil deGrasse Tyson climate denier takedown we’ve been waiting for is finally here

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/29/watch_the_neil_degrasse_tyson_climate_denier_take_down_weve_been_waiting_for_is_finally_here/

Here it is: the truly ultimate guide to shutting down climate trolls, brought to us by the new champion of all things science.

In the upcoming episode of “Cosmos,” host Neil deGrasse Tyson is taking on climate deniers directly — and National Geographic just released the first clip. If these two minutes are any indication of what the rest of the episode (airing Sunday) is going to be like, we can expect a simple, elegant takedown of their most tired and misinformed arguments.

“OK, so if we scientists are so good at making these dire, long-term predictions about the climate, how come we’re so lousy about predicting the weather?” Tyson begins by asking, in imitation of those skeptical of climate change. And if the planet is really heating up, he adds, why did some places experience a really cold winter this year?

Tyson then goes on to answer his own question, using the unique image of a man walking on the beach while his leashed dog wanders alongside him: ”We can’t observe climate directly,” he explains. “All we see is the weather. The average weather over the course of years reveals a pattern. I represent that long-term trend, which is climate. Keep your eye on the man, not the dog.”

[lastlib]

3. "Creationists try to outsmart Neil..."

I bet they had great success with that......

: snark :

[etherealtruth]

13. That line honestly made me laugh out loud n/t

[pipi_k]

26. Me too, and...

I'm getting great amusement from Dr Tyson's amused expression in that photo...

[NastyRiffraff]

71. "Creationists" and "outsmart Neil..."

Somehow, those two concepts don't go together.

In fact, it's kinda hard for anyone to outsmart Neil, let alone creationists, who would be hard put to outsmart Joe the Plumber.

[AnnieBW]

90. Neal Degrasse Tyson could win an argument with these idiots

in his sleep.

[Mustellus]

4. Its simple, really.....

There were only a few species back then, and they have evolved since the flood.

Glad we cleared that up.

[longship]

6. How much evolution must one have for that explanation?

Plus, then there's the geographical distribution issue. How does one get koalas to Australia? (And all the other Australian marsupials without any regular mammals? Not one!)

The Flood just does not work.

[mwooldri]

27. Plus humans.

If one did accept the Noah's Ark story as truth, and since all humans would have descended from Noah... then evolution must be a fact too. Humans are of different races and nothing can really explain the differences unless there was some form of divine intervention that caused people to look different all of a sudden.

Evolution alone explains racial changes as we grew out from somewhere in Africa.

The Noah's Ark tale is just that - a tale. Does it have meanings for Christians? Yes. My belief is that the Old Testament is inspired by God, written by humans, which got relegated to a history/reference book with the coming of Jesus. The Old Testament isn't the Gospel... and my faith is that Jesus gave all humans a new covenant - which superceded the earlier covenant in the tale of Noah's Ark. You may or may not agree with my religious beliefs but I am definitely not a creationist and the Bible was written by humans, not God. The book of Genesis isn't factual - there are too many things in life today that contradict that book. As for the first bit of that book.... the 7 day timeline is more like billions of years and not exactly correct. But it does support the Big Bang Theory and evolution perfectly.

Thanks for listening.

[tofuandbeer]

76. That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[madokie]

7. That's the ticket

LOL

[reflection]

10. Dad?

This is the same line of nonsense my dad tried to feed me, yet he is also adamant that the earth was 6000 years old. That's some high-powered evolution there. Of course, when I called him on the timeline, he interlocked his fingers sagely and said "with God, all things are possible."

[Mr. Evil]

61. I guess maybe you could put your dad to the test by asking him if he's "with god."

If he says "yes" then ask him since, with god, all things are possible, to levitate across the room for you.

[drynberg]

11. LIKE A 1000 TO A MILLION TIMES GREATER # OF SPECIES? IN A FEW THOUSAND YRS? REALLY?

You forgot the sarcasm sign on the bottom or...

[Mustellus]

20. yes, I did forget it.....

<\snarkoff>

See the next post for why its important to not forget it.....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. What a lot of malarky that is. There is no evidence for that. nt

[jwirr]

21. Maybe they only took babies! Not arguing just pointing out that this is what the literalists get for

insisting on every damn dot to an I must be true.

[etherealtruth]

29. You are trying to be funny

Pointing out the idiocy .... right?

[valerief]

43. Arrgh!!!! Nyet, nyet!!!! No evolution!!!! Head explodes...

[Jerry442]

63. There ya go.

The "kinds" on the ark:
1. The fuzzy kind,
2. The slimy kind,
3. The flying kind,
4. The wet kind,
5. The bug kind,
6. And the worm kind.

Lots of room. Now where's my grant?

[JesterCS]

77. Earth = Ark, maybe?

LOL Seriously though, I was raised Xtian and have a hard time believing anything that is supposedly "history" from the Bible.

[tanyev]

5. Talk about bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight.

[Gothmog]

9. I love NDT and Cosmos

The fact that the nut cases are upset makes me smile

[ejpoeta]

12. i've just started watching episodes.

And I can see why these folks are flipping out. the episode i watched yesterday talked about the comets and how it made sense in the absence of understanding to think they were a man in the sky who is telling you something bad is going to happen.

As far as the bible goes..... it's like taking something out a fictional novel and treating it as though it really happened. Perhaps there was flooding, but back then how much of the earth was really known? the 'world' was much smaller so a flood in one area could be seen as bigger than it was. but in any event, when you have to try to turn the information into a pretzel to fit your argument, perhaps it's time to rethink your argument.

[Wounded Bear]

47. Well, the proliferation of flood stories has a simple explanation to me...

All of the great civilizations we know of (well, almost all) grew up in river valleys. That's where the water for agriculture is. Rivers flood. People tell stories about floods.

[ejpoeta]

78. that makes sense to me.

[Thespian2]

14. Genesis

explains nothing about the history of the cosmos. Ancient writers, including christians, relied on the oral traditions of their ancestors. Yet christians chose to believe one set of stories, collected to solidify power, into a holy book. The councils of the times rejected other writings because they did not fit the narrative they wished to push on the uneducated masses. Genesis is simply another myth produced by early myth-makers. People who believe the old testament must take leave of their senses in order to accept the myths as real. Why didn't they choose to believe the Greek myths instead? I suppose power and greed are the answers.

[Hoppy]

15. How do you fit all those animals in one boat? Simple !

It was a BBBBBBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG boat, you heathens.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. But Noah didn't save the plants.

[valerief]

44. Bwahahahaha!!!!!

[azureblue]

72. and what about the fish, too?

I got into trouble in my church when I asked this question. And complicated it by asking how could the saltwater fish survive in fresh water, and vice versa?

[surrealAmerican]

34. Oddly, the size of the boat ...

... is one detail the bible is very specific about. The give measurements even.

[RoccoR5955]

16. Easy way to disprove creationists like Ham

is to take DNA samples from folks all over the world, and see where they lead. If they lead to the time of Noah, then he is correct. If they do not, than he is wrong. Plain and simple.
Yes, we may find some mitochondrial DNA that will take us back a million or so years, and lead us to Olduvai Gorge in Africa, but I don't think that this is where the flood is reported to have been.

[abakan]

45. For this to work

You must first believe in science. I may be mistaken but I think that is the problem here. They don't believe in anything but the crap that comes from their pulpits, spouted by idiots.

[marmar]

19. Has there ever been a more apropos last name for a given person than 'Ham'?

k/r

[Rozlee]

31. *snark* Didn't Noah curse Ham and his offspring?

Interracial marriages like mine were banned for years by fundies because I was considered a child of Ham since Ham's children were cursed with dark skin. Ham should have changed his name to one of Noah's other son's who didn't laugh and him for passing out drunk naked.

[dawg]

37. I once had a crazy man in Arby's point to my son and say ...

Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

"What a fine-looking boy. None of the blood of Ham in him, that's for sure."

What can I say? We're pale.

[Rozlee]

48. Shoulda told him he had some back in the woodpile.

Some of my grandchildren are blond and hazel-eyed from two of my kids also marrying whites, although one child married an African-American-Asian. To paraphrase Forest Gump, intermarriage is like a box of chocolate, you don't know what you'll get.

[dawg]

49. I was too stunned to say much of anything.

It was a seriously creepy moment.

Of course, we all trace our heritage back to Africa. The fact that some of my ancestors spent many generations in some godforsaken icy wasteland changes that not at all.

[Rozlee]

52. I probably would have been too creeped out myself.

I talk the big talk, but I get pretty tongue-tied when people actually made outrageous comments.

[Enthusiast]

50. That was a genuine crazy man.

[VWolf]

22. What a stupid thread title

We all know that "Creationist" and "outsmart" can't be used in the same sentence.

[fadedrose]

23. The animals' DNA would fit . . .

[theHandpuppet]

41. I don't mean to say that it was aliens...

BUT IT WAS ALIENS.

[DebJ]

74. You just gave me an earworm

"Ancient ... astronaut ... theorists... believe"

My husband loves that stuff and will watch and re-watch and do the all day thing of it.

The sound of that voice and it's pauses is worse than nails on a chalkboard.


The basic premise of the series is this: human beings are too stupid to ever invent anything so
some other species must have come and told them what to do.

[AngryDem001]

25. Wait! According to Joe Barton,

global warming is not man-made cuz there was no fossil fuel pollution when the Great Flood happened!

"I would point out that if you're a believer in the Bible, one would have to say the Great Flood is an example of climate change and that certainly wasn't because mankind had overdeveloped hydrocarbon energy."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/joe-barton-great-flood_n_3055909.html

[yellowcanine]

32. Maybe it was all the methane being emitted by plant eating dinosaurs!

It is as good a hypothesis as "God did it!"

[yellowcanine]

30. Ken Ham "These legends are ubiquitous because all people in the world are descendants of Noah"

Of course they are, Ken. Why didn't I think of that?

OTOH, isn't it quite a coincidence that the Yahwist, which contains the Noah's Flood story, was written during the Babylonian Exile, according to most biblical scholars, where the writers would have certainly have been exposed to the Gilgamesh Epic? Hmmmmm?

[maced666]

33. I bet 'creationist' Maya Angelou would kick his ass in debate

Though not really fair, she is a professional with words and damn good one at that -

“While I know myself as a creation of God, I am also obligated to realize and remember that everyone else and everything else are also God's creation- Maya Angelou

"In a world of confusion and noise I look for the moments that help me understand who I am, where I come from and what I want to be. This Bible series brings to life the stories that have shaped our world and shaped my life. Stories that have helped me to forgive. Helped me to love. Helped me to overcome. Helped me to survive, and even do better than that, helped me to thrive."
http://www.christianpost.com/news/seven-quotes-showing-maya-angelous-love-of-the-bible-and-faith-120493/

"I know that when I pray, something wonderful happens. Not just to the person or persons for whom I'm praying, but also something wonderful happens to me. I'm grateful that I'm heard."
I'm trying to be a Christian and the Bible helps me to remind myself what I'm about."
http://www.christianpost.com/news/seven-quotes-showing-maya-angelous-love-of-the-bible-and-faith-120493/\

[starroute]

38. Flood legends are not found all over the world

They're most common and varied in Southeast Asia, where they may have been inspired by the flooding of what is now Indonesia when sea levels rose at the end of the ice age. They're also found across India and the Middle East --which also lost significant chunks of coastal land -- as well as in the Americas. But they're extremely rare in Africa, and there are only scattered occurrences in Europe and northern Asia.

In addition, flood stories are just one subtype of a wide range of disaster stories, which include fire from the heavens, extreme cold, and other catastrophes. The most plausible conclusion is that our early ancestors had to put up with a lot of crap -- and made sure that their descendents would never forget it.

[kelliekat44]

40. I learned about the Epic of Gilgamesh 30 years ago. Neil was just a kid then.

Creationist have a problem with the earth being more than 6,000 years old and with actual human beings with language and writing abilities that were not Biblical Hebrews.

[Takket]

53. pfffffffffft

The can say what they want but they have no facts to back up anything. They are trying to play poker with Tyson but Tyson is holding 4 aces and the creationists are holding 5 cards from Magic the Gathering

[SwankyXomb]

54. Their hand actually consists of

A basic swamp, a Joe Schlabotnik bubble gum card, a Community Chest card from Monopoly, the 3 of spades from a different deck, and a non-foil Japanese Charizard.

[DebJ]

75. and sometimes a duck whistle n/t

[Hestia]

55. I can't believe I actually have to spell it out for you people --

Oral traditions get confused throughout generations and usually a writer will "clean up" the narrative, due to different belief system or disbelief, ("It just couldn't have happened that way.&quot At the end of the book Roots, Haley did say that the oral traditions never were sullied like they were when & where writing appeared. To the victor goes the spoils including history and religious teachings.

From what I have been told by neo-Sumerians (it is a part of their belief system) is that the animal & plant DNA was saved. It was never physical animals that were taken on the ark. How in the world would anyone do that?? Who's to disprove the DNA aspect? If you really think about it, it could have happened that way and it makes much more sense in the long run. Some say that goats, cattle, sheep (domesticated animals) didn't appear until after the flood - genetic tampering? Do you know for 100% sure? Do I know 100% for sure? No, but again, it makes sense to me.

Gilgamesh was a Giant but I wonder if it actually means a great person, i.e. giant in spirit, giant in abilities, etc. Giants are all over the place in the bible, but there is so much guesstimation and outright wrongness there, that that book really can't be used for anything historical. One example, there is a 3 day incubation period where someone goes into a cave/underground to meditate and afterwards is considered an initiate of the order - Lazarus and Jacob anyone? The word "lord" meant "mister" in their contemporary language, had nothing to do with a title. It was an everyday term like "san" in Japanese.

There are over 30,000 cuneiform tablets that have yet to have been translated - who knows what else is on those tablets, other than shopping lists or gifts to the Temple?

As always, YMMV

[MisterP]

56. ah, but anthropologists have found numerous ways of "stabilizing" oral tradition

from meter and rhythm to mnemonic professional "storytellers" with specialist cross-checking, staging, and audience-interaction techniques; the idea of oral tradition as just being a big game of Telephone isn't valid to anyone with more than a bachelor's

[FiveGoodMen]

57. With what technology did Noah collect, preserve, and deploy this DNA?

[SansACause]

58. Just the insects alone would require a big boat.

After all, the Creator has an inordinate fondness for beetles.

[tclambert]

60. But they answered all the logical objections raised: It's a miracle!

If you're gonna resort to magic, then why did Noah need a boat at all?

You know the part I want to know more about? When Noah's neighbors noticed the water rising and ran to Noah's boat, begging to get in. And Noah said, "Screw all y'all." It would take a long time before it got deep enough for the ark to float away. Those neighbors must have tried to climb on board. They may have swam next to the ark as long as they could. And Noah let them all drown.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. On the bright side, if Ken Ham is trolling NDGT, he has less time to troll DU.

I know MIRT appreciates that.

[kmlisle]

68. Actually Noah's flood supports Climate Change ;-)

[Vattel]

82. I am the spirit of Noah speaking though Vattel. The truth is:

We only had room in the ark for our dog, a pair of cats, and some frozen fish. Some pigeons roosted in the boats rafters for a few days. Some early versions of the flood story claim that we had a gopher too, but that was a result of confusing "gopher wood" which is what we made the ark out of, with the animal "gopher." Also, we measured the ark in cubytes, not cubits, which has led to some underestimating the size of the ark (there are 8 cubits in one cubyte).

I would also like to point out that I never claimed that it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. What I said is that it rained for WHAT SEEMED LIKE 40 days and 40 nights because I was so bored on that ark. It actually only rained for the better part of four days. There was a flood though because a couple of levies built by the Babylonian Army Corps of Engineers broke (some claim it was sabotage).

Oh and my boat was way cooler than Gilgamesh's.

[smallcat88]

69. Almost every flood story

in any civilization predates the Noah story in the bible. Likely all the result of flooding that took place at the end of the ice age. And yeah, there may have been a few people on boats or rafts of some kind. But when Christianity arose they co-opted a lot of old stories and traditions: like the Pagan winter solstice which became Christmas. (More serious scholars who've actually tried to trace Christ's birth all seem to think he was born in spring or summer.)

So a story about a long forgotten family(s) who survived a flood at the end of the ice age becomes Noah and all the animals. At the time it was written there wouldn't have been a lot of 'scientific' thinkers pointing out the obvious flaws.

We know better today, but those who prefer not to think, cling to faith and vehemently defend their right to remain ignorant. And naturally, their story had to come first. OK, in and of itself, that wouldn't bother me - if they didn't insist that we ALL must believe. And use their faith as an excuse to support climate change denial, or use the bible as a club to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with them.

I get really sick of the faithful screaming about their rights to exercise their beliefs and free speech but pounce on anyone doing the same - but who just doesn't believe as they do.

Keep talking Tyson! The more they try to argue against facts with fairy tales - the dumber they look.

[BobTheSubgenius]

70. "Outsmart Neil deGrasse Tyson"?

For Dr. Tyson to turn that on its head and outsmart Ken Ham is somewhat analogous to beating an 8-year old at arm-wrestling. Yeah, it's a "W", but.....

[Initech]

88. Yeah Ken Ham would get annihilated if he tried to debate Prof. Tyson.

You'd think he would have learned after Bill Nye but apparently not.

[Strelnikov_]

83. It was probably an impact event

Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/nov/did-a-comet-cause-the-great-flood

++++

Ancient Crash, Epic Wave
By Sandra Blakeslee
November 14, 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/science/14WAVE.html?ex=1321160400&en=35b395ffd080eb47&ei=5090

. . .

Most astronomers doubt that any large comets or asteroids have crashed into the Earth in the last 10,000 years. But the self-described “band of misfits” that make up the two-year-old Holocene Impact Working Group say that astronomers simply have not known how or where to look for evidence of such impacts along the world’s shorelines and in the deep ocean.

Scientists in the working group say the evidence for such impacts during the last 10,000 years, known as the Holocene epoch, is strong enough to overturn current estimates of how often the Earth suffers a violent impact on the order of a 10-megaton explosion. Instead of once in 500,000 to one million years, as astronomers now calculate, catastrophic impacts could happen every 1,000 years.

The researchers, who formed the working group after finding one another through an international conference, are based in the United States, Australia, Russia, France and Ireland. They are established experts in geology, geophysics, geomorphology, tsunamis, tree rings, soil science and archaeology, including the structural analysis of myth. Their efforts are just getting under way, but they will present some of their work at the American Geophysical Union meeting in December in San Francisco.

. . .

Dr. Masse analyzed 175 flood myths from around the world, and tried to relate them to known and accurately dated natural events like solar eclipses and volcanic eruptions. Among other evidence, he said, 14 flood myths specifically mention a full solar eclipse, which could have been the one that occurred in May 2807 B.C. Half the myths talk of a torrential downpour, Dr. Masse said. A third talk of a tsunami. Worldwide they describe hurricane force winds and darkness during the storm. All of these could come from a mega-tsunami.

[ismnotwasm]

84. FFS

Why do these people insist on putting their God in a man sized box. If I believed, the wonder of the "Comos" would strengthen my faith. I wouldn't want to argue about it. I would rejoice in it as I do as a person of no faith at all.

In another part of that series a man is burned as heretical for daring to imagine how large the the scope the universe must be. In his view, if God was infinite, why not the universe and Gods creations? Of course they shut him up-- permanently.

As an aside, Im greatly enjoying the series

[freebrew]

89. The answer lies in Bill Cosby's question...

when he told of the Ark.


"What's a cubit?"

[egold2604]

91. George Bernard Shaw said it best

God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment.

[lastlib]

92. Creationists are living proof that some of the monkeys came out of the trees....

...head-first. On a rock.

[VA_Jill]

93. LMAO

They are definitely coming unarmed to this fight!