Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): are you in favor or against?

[MannyGoldstein]

8 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I'm in favor.
	0 (0%)
	I'm against it.
	8 (100%)
	I don't know, because it's being kept secret, possibly until after it's voted on.
	0 (0%)
	This is an unfair poll (please explain).
	0 (0%)
	Manny, it's very telling that this post doesn't address the specific concerns of [group x].
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[el_bryanto]

1. The thing is - i'm against it because we don't know what's in it.

I am not opposed to all trade agreements, but I am opposed to ones done in secret that we don't know the contours of.

Bryant

[whatchamacallit]

2. However the president feels

[MannyGoldstein]

3. The President is highly in favor

So you are as well?

[OhioChick]

4. So is HRC, helped draft it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

[whatchamacallit]

6. Joking of course

Just illustrating - for people who will post tons of links to shilly op-eds - how much easier and more efficient it is to simply cut to the chase.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Got it.

Sorry!

[HooptieWagon]

5. Against. Most "free trade" agreements are bad...

... because they give unrestricted mobility to capital, that doesn't exist for labor. Therefore, labor in all countries signed on to the agreement end up getting the shaft.

[Maedhros]

19. "Free Trade" is dog-whistle for "Screw the Workers and the Environment."

I'm against the TPP for multiple reasons.

[KittyWampus]

22. "Fair Trade not Free Trade". I think Kucinich used that phrase in a debate.

[bettyellen]

7. were you unable to do this without snarking on people who care about other issues?

and you wonder why people stay out of those threads, LOL. haven't figured it out yet....

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Sorry, perhaps you haven't noticed.

I'm regularly attacked for my posts because I don't mention X.

E.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5119911
And of course, you did see http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5152183

How would you propose we end that kind of stuff?

[bettyellen]

11. so "he started it" works for you, LOL? Okay then.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. No. I didn't do the same thing back.

Simply a bit of pre-emption.

It sucks to be called racist, misogynist, and so forth, even for nonsensical reasons.

[bettyellen]

15. it looks like childish tit for tat to me.

and you're still hurt about being called out for making fun of african americans dislike of watermelon jokes?
i guess that means your apology was bullshit.
but taken all together, it appears you are deliberately alienating people here, which is interesting.

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Where did I write that I'm

"still hurt about being called out for making fun of african americans [sic] dislike of watermelon jokes"?

I eagerly await your response, thanks.

[bettyellen]

23. what were these racist accusations about then? very eagerly awaiting your response!

[MannyGoldstein]

24. As I already linked to in a response to you in this very thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5119911

At this point, it seems like you're pushing an agenda against me rather than trying to have a discussion.

[bettyellen]

27. no one called you are racist. they said it appears racial matters do not concern you.

that is a very different thing. was the watermelon joke the only pile of shit you stepped in?
that was kind of big, and gives this discussion- and the questions those Duers asked you, a whole lot of missing context.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. LOL. You're still upset about my post from a week ago?

Where did I call you a racist in my post?

[bettyellen]

31. Manny must have misread your post- he claimed you called him a racist! Not true at all.

[JoePhilly]

10. Is there a draft bill yet?

Anywhere?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Perhaps Ed Snowden can make a visit and let the people know what its gov't is doing.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. When would our President want that draft bill to be available to the public?

Actually, since our President wants fast-track authority, the agreement would essentially be the bill, no?

[JoePhilly]

16. Fast track is used to prevent senators from trying to derail legislation with

extraneous riders. Its not like the GOP hasn't used approaches like that to obstruct legislation before, right?

And as I'm sure you are aware, legislation is introduced by a member of Congress, not the President.

Its tough for me to freak out about a piece of potential legislation that, as far as I am aware, has not been drafted bu anyone.

This topic is starting to look a lot like the "OMG, the President is about to gut/slash/kill social security" threads.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Thanks, but you didn't answer my simple question. nt

[JoePhilly]

21. Nor did you answer mine. Funny how that works.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. I think I did, but to make it clearer

There is not an explicit draft bill but there is effectively a draft bill, which is the draft of the TPP.

Now, your turn.

[TheKentuckian]

30. Works pretty good at stifling push back from all comers

As far as introduction of legislation, let's not blow too much smoke, the thing will get hammered out by the negotiators and some patsy will introduce it. I ask so what?

[pa28]

32. Except Republican Senators are the ones pushing for fast track passage.

Democrats like Harry Reid are trying to obstruct. Opposition to fast track is the Democratic position.

[pampango]

17. Against it because it does not do what needs to be done.

There need to be labor and environmental standards in any trade agreement. If TPP does not have them, and it sure seems like it doesn't, then sticking with WTO trading rules (which do not have labor nor environmental standards) is better than missing the opportunity that TPP could have represented.

To improve labor and environmental standards globally we will have to negotiate enforceable agreements with the rest of the world. Given what we know about TPP it looks like we will have to wait a long time for that.

[mike_c]

28. I'm against it, but I recognize that's a knee-jerk reaction to secrecy....

In truth, I don't have much information about the details of the TPP so it is difficult to make an informed argument against it. However, the secrecy surrounding it generates distrust and unease.

[KamaAina]

29. Whatever it is, I'm against it!

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