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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI just wrote to a lawyer about this gift card I have for Hobby Lobby
Last edited Mon Jun 30, 2014, 10:07 PM - Edit history (2)
First I called their corporate headquarters and told them I wanted my money back because of their abuse of women concerning blocking contraception. I got the CEO's assistant and he was very curt and told me they would not give the money back and then hung up on me.
In case anyone else wants to contact them and tell them what a bunch of shit asses they are, (or maybe don't use those words) And to tell them that you will never shop in their store and you will tell all your family and friends not to shop there. (And whoever else - you church?)
DAVID GREEN - Hobby Lobby
405-745-1110 - Wouldn't it be nice if their phones blew up?
david.green@hobbylobby.com
We really can do something about this travesty if we try. I imagine they don't pay their female workers much so it would be hard for them to get contraception without health care. (more abortions you hobby lobby misogynists!)
Here is a link describing the reason these people do this things.
https://www.aclu.org/using-religion-discriminate
Here is my letter to the lawyer in case anyone wants to read it and see some of the points I made - not that I know they will contribute to his taking my case.
Hello Mr.
I am writing to you because I am furious that Hobby Lobby, who just got permission from the Supreme Court to deny its employers birth control coverage. I have a gift card that has a small amount of money on and I called the corporate office and spoke with his assistant. I was told that they would not give my money back and that was that.
I believe that should I find out a company is doing harm to its employees I have a right to not support that company and in this case it would be to get my money back from a gift card I got while bringing and an item to the store. Instead of giving my money back they gave me the gift care, (a practice that I also think it unfair since they are basically saying you can only spend that returned in their store)
I find their views on contraception misogynist, irresponsible and manipulative. I believe at the bottom of all these anti-contraception laws are men who don't like women in the workplace. Of course this highly religious company does not care that by not covering contraceptives that are only increasing the number of unwanted pregnancies and thus the number of abortions.
I would like to sue them for the amount they owe me on the card and hopefully it will get publicity and others will do the same, (or a class action suit). I believe there are not many people who do not want the gift card or maybe their purchases from Hobby Lobby now.
And I did not know about their desires for this ability to deny health care when I brought back the item that I received the gift card from. It was a few years ago.
Sincerely,
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)are getting so many calls. I'm going to look for some other numbers for them.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Make sure the faxes are long......since they are buying the paper.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)noamnety
(20,234 posts)a two page fax can be very effective ... if you tape the ends together into a loop.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)You are wicked funny!
noamnety
(20,234 posts)in a previous job, I got some fax spam - like telemarketing crap, but using up my paper and toner. After the second or third time, I did a two page loop of black construction paper back at them.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Spamming our fax machine at work is a continual problem, and yes, it does use our paper and toner. I have to see if they indicate their fax numbers on what they send. Then the fun would begin and I will not feel guilty.
lame54
(35,290 posts)or else they are gonna profit 100% on any un-redeemed card
derby378
(30,252 posts)So far, it's just me, so I took refuge at a nearby McDonalds to see if I have any takers.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Full-time employees get $14/hr., and part-time employees get $9.50/hr.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/hobby-lobby-raises-minimum-wage-to-14-for-full-time-employees-94233/
That's more than I was making after 5 years as a full-time bank teller.
KatyaR
(3,445 posts)they cut their employees' hours to the bone. I have a work colleague whose daughter was working at one of their stores at least part if not full time, and they cut her hours to 10 hours a week. So all that bullshit about their high wages mean nothing because I doubt there are any FT employees other than a couple of managers and the people in their home office.
Since David Green has gotten at least one school district in central Oklahoma to offer his Bible curriculum next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he continues this reign of horror and tries to run for governor at some point. He could definitely buy his way in, his family's not hurting for cash....
One more thing--when merchandise scanners and codes first started being used, back in the day, Green made a HUGE ruckus about it, saying these were the sign of the devil. It was only a few years ago that the stores put in credit card machines for people to use; you had to give your card to the cashier to pay. And they still don't use bar codes--all of their merchandise is tagged, and they continue to do inventory by hand. But I will bet you dollars to birth control pills that he and his family have no trouble using those codes in other stores....
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Hell, I made more than that at my very first retail job, in the 90's.
Spaldeen
(219 posts)They pay $15 an hour for full time and part timers make $10 an hour.
Mr.Bill
(24,292 posts)then sell the item on Craigslist and donate the money to Planned Parenthood.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Reread it. There are problems throughout. The very last line, you have, "I was a few years ago".....I believe you mean "It was a few years ago" or "It has been a few years ago". Additionally, if this is store policy, I doubt that the lawyer can do anything.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)and the attorneys don't much care if it is a good case. And I checked and there were only a few problems.
But thank you for pointing it out otherwise and I did correct it on this thread.
And of course I had already sent it!
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)We are certainly all in this together!
Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #9)
A HERETIC I AM This message was self-deleted by its author.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #47)
A HERETIC I AM This message was self-deleted by its author.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)cash? And I may have had the receipt because I usually keep receipts but like I said this was a long time ago.
WhiteTara
(29,715 posts)So, I sent them a fax.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)WhiteTara
(29,715 posts)if you're clever (I'm not) you can fax from your computer.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)You can also do it with gmail
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)WhiteTara
(29,715 posts)I wrote in big letters and signed my real name.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Moostache
(9,895 posts)Then get a permit to protest and stand outside their door with signs denouncing them for their positions...or use the card to buy paper and find a Hobby Lobby that sells printer ink...print out 10,000 flyers denouncing the store, its manager, the CEO and the bastard familiy behind it all and dump them on their front door.
I believe you when you say that the dropping was completely accidental because you thought the ruling made their stores holy places that require you to genuflect before entering and the papers just slipped.....an honest accident....could happen to anyone really....in multiple states and in front of multiple templ...errr, stores.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)Maybe I could do both.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Let them decide what they want to do with it. They could use it to buy a gift for someone in their family, or if they're crafters, they can use it personally.
That way you don't have to use it. A low wage employee gets a "bonus" and you get to personally explain your outrage, and why you are forfeiting the card, personally.
Ineeda
(3,626 posts)The amount is small, according to the OP, so won't really be missed by her. AND the employee will probably tell a bunch of people, like her/his co-workers and family. Spread the anti-Hobby Lobby message and look like the biblical Good Samaritan. A total stranger giveth while Hobby Lobby bosses taketh away.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)And then return it for a refund the next day.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)WillowTree
(5,325 posts)In that case, they'd just issue another gift card. And trying the return without the receipt will get a gift card, as well.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)do not let it go to waste....then they really win. They get the money to keep forever and don't have to provide a thing for it. Even if you have to look at everything in the store, find something for just the amount left on the card so you don't give them more money.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)WillowTree
(5,325 posts)PADemD
(4,482 posts)dembotoz
(16,804 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)joanbarnes
(1,722 posts)My religious beliefs do not allow me to patronize or otherwise financially support ANY business that would use RELIGION as a means to prohibit an employee from receiving health care or to step between a woman and her doctor and deem itself better able to judge which type of contraception is best for that patient AND to further the need for MORE ABORTIONS when an unintended pregnancy COULD HAVE BEEN SAFELY AVOIDED.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)ms.smiler
(551 posts)Given that it is a small amount, it wont cost much to file the Complaint, estimating $50 to $100. If/when you prevail; the Defendant will also owe you the filing fee.
If your gift card has say a $75.00 balance, you would sue for $75.00. If your filing fee was say $60, if/when you prevail, they would owe you $135.00. You need their office address for the Complaint. You fill in your name and address and phone number and simply state the nature of the dispute in the appropriate space. (Your local court forms can often be found online.)
You file in your local court. The Defendant will receive your Complaint via Certified Mail. You will receive mail from your court with the date and time of your hearing. Most likely you will receive a call from the Defendants counsel seeking a Settlement. It will cost them hundreds of dollars to defend a likely out of state lawsuit. Consider settling for a few hundred dollars which is less expensive for them than defending.
Its not likely but they could hire local counsel and defend. Appear at the hearing and tell the Judge why you want a refund and that you attempted to obtain it but was refused. The Court would likely make a decision within 10 days.
The absolute most fun you could have with this is if the Defendant does not respond with an Intent to Defend and you win by default. You obtain a Judgment and you get to pay their local Sheriff to execute your Judgment. The Sheriff would levy their property for Sheriff sale. The cost of the Sheriff is also added to the Judgment.
They are more likely though to settle with you. Even if they have a No Refund policy on gift cards, it will cost them money to insist upon that policy.
Your $50 or $60 bucks can cost them hundreds, even if they win.
This is not legal advise. I am a small business owner and this is the type of dispute that is ideal for our small District Courts.
Funny, but while I have all sorts of political views and beliefs and some views regarding religion, my business has absolutely NONE, only sound business practices.
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)How much is on the card? Do you really expect to get a refund?
Why not buy some arts and crafts and donate them to a shelter for women and children, and never set foot in Hobby Lobby again?
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)California does. You may want to check your state's laws.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Then mail it to hq.
Woo hoo!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Especially when some poor mailroom clerk making probably $10/hr gets to open the box.
ReasonableToo
(505 posts)I seem to remember that around christmastime, the stores say they don't get the money on their books until the cards are redeemed.
UPDATE
found this:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/27/144308234/lost-money-41-billion-in-gift-cards-havent-been-redeemed-since-2005
In general, as USA Today says, "retailers can't count gift card sales as income until they are redeemed."
So when can a company declare its revenue from unused gift-cards as income?
The Journal says there "are no hard-and-fast rules. ... The Securities and Exchange Commission allows companies to take unused gift-card money as income once they can reasonably say the card won't be redeemed, but there's no set time limit. Best Buy, for example, sets that level at about two years. ... But some states don't allow companies to keep unused gift-card cash. They demand that companies give the money to the state after a certain period of time to add to unclaimed-funds accounts."
According to the Journal, in 2008 the state of New York "collected $9.6 million in unredeemed gift cards and returned around $2,150 to the rightful owners."
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)First off, the circumstances under which you obtained this card are not clear. You say:
"a gift card I got while bringing and an item to the store"
I'm going to assume that this means you were given the stored balance card when you returned a previously purchased item to the store.
"Instead of giving my money back they gave me the gift care"
And you accepted that. The reason you accepted that is because it is probably posted as their return policy.
I assume you are aware that the store doesn't have to take returns at all. It's not clear why you were returning an item - whether it was defective or you just decided you didn't want it. However, a lot of stores do take returns pursuant to whatever policy they provide, which brings us to:
" a practice that I also think it unfair since they are basically saying you can only spend that returned in their store)"
Marching through the grammar there, let me tell you about another unfair practice - People who buy stuff on credit cards, return the item for cash, and then deny the charge on their credit card. How often does that happen? Oh, about a zillion times a day. As a result of that, many stores issue in-store credit for returns. Alternatively, a lot of stores deduct a "restocking fee".
But whether you like their return policy or not, you accepted the terms of that policy.
And I will bet you dollars to donuts that one of the terms to which you agreed, when you agreed to take that card as a refund on your returned item is the fairly mundane and standard term that applies to these things.... That you can only redeem it for purchases, not cash.
The bottom line here, and there have been all kinds of class action suits in the past which have sorted out the terms on which these things are issued, is that ANY attorney looking at that letter is going to have one, and only one, question on his or her mind:
What are the terms on which the card is issued?
That card was issued pursuant to a contract to which you agreed. Whether their refund policy is referenced on your original receipt or posted in the store, the odds of there being terms in that policy under which you agreed you were not entitled to a cash refund of any balance on that card are, in the general likelihood of these kinds of things, close to 100%.
And... here you are:
---------
http://www.hobbylobby.com/customer_service/return_policy.cfm
In-Store Return Policy
Hobby Lobby values customer satisfaction -- with or without the receipt.
With Original Sales Receipt:
Within 90 days of purchase, we will gladly exchange the merchandise, give a store credit, or issue a refund based on the original method of payment. There will be a wait of 10 calendar days on check purchases, or merchandise credit can be issued.
-----------
As I suspected without looking, depending on the original method of payment, it is up to them whether to issue a refund or give a store credit.
They gave you a store credit because you did not pay with cash.
Even if you did pay with cash, the point is moot, since you accepted the store credit.
The question then becomes "What part of 'store credit' do you not understand?"
So, here is what you are going to waste some attorney's time on:
1. Figuring out the circumstances under which you obtained the card, as the letter is not at all clear on the details of that.
2. Figuring out the Hobby Lobby return policy.
3. Explaining to you that you accepted "store credit" when you returned the item, and that the fact that you have now changed your mind does not change the fact that "store credit" is what you agreed to.
4. If necessary, further explaining to you that "store credit" means you were issued a credit to purchase items from the store for the stated value of that credit. It does not mean you were entitled to obtain that value or any part of it in cash.
I hope you know this attorney and that you have at least offered to buy him or her lunch.
(bonus point: if the card is issued pursuant to their normal gift card terms, it is likely that the balance expires at some point, because no company can simply carry as a liability an ever-growing number of small balances. At some point, the expired value becomes theirs and they take that as income for reporting purposes.)
A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)You are now on her case. And you should get off it, as I was asked to!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Every attorney gets a fairly regular stream of "interesting things in the mail" or email, of varying degrees of decipherability.
They fall into two broad categories:
1. Handwritten or manually type written letters from inmates who have access to limited facilities for composing and sending mail, and they are looking for help with an appeal of their conviction for reasons which are generally unclear. They go through attorney directories and crank these things out because they have a lot of time on their hands, and send them to attorneys who, like me, have never been within a mile of a criminal case of any kind.
2. Someone who is REALLY PISSED OFF about something which is essentially trivial, would require gobs of time and attention to deal with. The fact that the only thing an attorney has to sell is his or her time is immaterial, spending the next 1000 hours of my life pursuing a federal lawsuit over a $50 claim will bring me all kinds of publicity, fame and attention. Somehow, those three things will pay for my food and heating oil, but I never seem to be able to convince my grocer or fuel dealer to accept my publicity, fame and attention in exchange for those things.
Then there are the truly cynical who think any sort of legal claim at all is a ticket to untold riches. I went back and forth via email with some guy for waaaaay too much time a while back because I was having a hard time wrapping my head around just what it was he wanted me to do about his claim which was worth something on the order of $15. The really weird thing is that he could have completely remedied his problem on his own for maybe $10. I couldn't figure out what he wanted from me until I told him, "Okay, you want to pay me for about 20 hours of my time minimum, to pursue a claim worth $15?"
"But it was really egregious, don't you think we can get some kind of punitive damages?"
He thought that, basically, lawyers take any case at all for free because there is some pot of gold at the end of every litigation rainbow. I was really pissed that he wasted my time. I'm in the business of helping people solve actual problems, and not making problems for profit.
Of course lawyers aren't expected to actually get paid for their time or services, because we have magic keys that unlock fountains of money from whomever we file suit against. Because, yeah, apparently everyday commercial disputes are just like slip and fall cases.
But aren't lawyers supposed to take pro bono cases?
Yes, we are, and yes we do. But the type of case that qualifies for that sort of arrangement is not generally about making a point. One doesn't have to look very hard to find people who are facing grave injustice which will actually do them harm if they don't get appropriate legal help. For example, given a choice between a mom & pop business that is the sole and meager income of some family, who is threatened with a frivolous intellectual property claim... yeah, I'll look into that LONG before someone who wants me to spend my time to make a political point of some kind.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)I was a stock broker from 06 thru 09, and while what I did and went through is nothing compared to your years in school getting your JD, I was licensed and could legally call myself a "Financial Advisor"
It amazed me how many people were completely willing to try and pick my brain for investment ideas and then take their business elsewhere. Wasting my time seemed to be what I was there for, in their minds. I was paid by commission on trades, not by the hour for consultation, and I got screwed numerous times when supposed "clients" took my advice straight to another broker or made the trades online.
My hope for the OP is that she gets some sort of satisfaction, but you are entirely correct. If she took the card, she is bound by THEIR terms.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)WillowTree
(5,325 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)My experience may be somewhat limited, but I have found on several occasions that fish-sporting professionals and business people do not seem to believe they are bound by the rules which govern others, and are more likely to take an ends-justifying approach. Where they believe they are morally correct, ordinary ethics do not apply.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)They can screw ya and be forgiven for it!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The OP could hire DU's own "Laser Taitz"
Iggo
(47,552 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Maybe they're train-wreck votes.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)For example, look at all those people who recovered millions of dollars from Carnival Cruises for the famous poop cruise, or how Jesse Ventura brought the TSA to its knees.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The OP was offered, and accepted, "store credit" on a returned item several years ago, pursuant to the store's stated return policy.
Now the OP wants cash.
When you are offered "store credit" on a return, it means "store credit". It doesn't mean "unless you get pissed off several years later and then decide you want cash instead".
There's nothing here. The OP is not entitled to cash under the store's stated return policy, to which the OP agreed when the OP accepted store credit for the return.
There is not some perpetual right to change your mind associated with commercial transactions.
(as a final aside, posting one's communications to and from one's lawyer is an exceptionally bad idea for a number of reasons)
Maraya1969
(22,480 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,368 posts)My initial response was rather pithy. You didn't deserve it. I could have just left well enough alone.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)which was to find one of their stores and go shoplift something.
(places mouth near hidden tape recorder) "But it would be wrong!"
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)To be used for BC info to distribute to the public.