Support for Israel and blind support for Netanyahu's right wing government

[Uncle Joe]

are two different things.

When doing the latter our government ceases to actually represent the American Nation or people and becomes pawn to Israel's whims and tragedy.

Indeed, unconditional support regardless of Israel's policies only serves to empower the most radical, right wing elements of that nation.

The United States should never be held hostage to any other nation's actions on an unconditional basis.

[Duppers]

1. Well said, sir, well said!

[Uncle Joe]

3. Thank you, Duppers.

Peace to you.

[G_j]

2. that is the truth

thank you Uncle Joe.

[Uncle Joe]

4. Thanks for the thanks, G_j.

Peace to you.

[kelliekat44]

5. Well be sure you tell that to the GOP and the RW evangelicals whipping up their bases. nt

[Uncle Joe]

8. Most of them won't listen, their own tribal-istic or "faith" based emotions have overruled

Last edited Tue Jul 22, 2014, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

their reason, but there are too many Democrats in power that have fallen into this same trap primarily because they're intimidated by countering that political, religious based narrative.

They make little or no public distinction between support and unconditional support.

Peace to you, kelliekat.

[Ken Burch]

26. Those would be the GOP and the RW evangelicals who are obsessively "pro-Israel"(Pro-Netanyahu)

But are also the ideological descendants of the Republicans who passed the Immigration Act of 1924(a piece of legislation that established what we SHOULD call the Jewish Exclusion policy-it excluded others too, and that was also wrong, but the main point was to keep the Jews out) and who are, therefore, the enablers of the Holocaust.

[Uncle Joe]

34. The world is full of irony.

Peace to you, Ken Burch.

[conservaphobe]

6. Both sides of the conflict deserve better leaders. nt

[Uncle Joe]

9. I agree, conservaphobe but I believe unconditional support of Israel creates a dynamic that only

ensures the worst leaders coming to power on both sides.

Peace to you.

[grahamhgreen]

35. Hate begets hate - buddha

[Uncle Joe]

36. Precisely, grahamhgreen.

Peace to you.

[Ken Burch]

27. True, but it's not really the place of the comfortable and non-oppressed

to tell the oppressed who their leaders should be-any more than it was the place of J. Edgar Hoover to try to force black people to change the leadership of THEIR freedom movement.

[Chathamization]

7. Yep! If a foreigner was supporting Bush's wars, it wouldn't make them "pro-American"

Neither would supporting American segregation. What's funny is it seems like there are more negative articles about the current Israeli governmental policy in the Israeli media than there is in the US media. American's who share a viewpoint that lots of Israelis have are considered "anti-Israel".

[Uncle Joe]

11. Precisely, Chathamization it wouldn't make them pro-American, however it would make

them pro-empire, pro-torture, and pro-war crimes.

That's what unconditional support does and if enough nations around the world had blindly supported Cheney/Bush et al, It's possible Obama would not have come to power.

McCain/Palin would've seemed a natural acceptable continuance to the world and in turn that influence would affect U.S.' perception.

Peace to you.

[TheKentuckian]

10. I can rec that. May not agree with how it might be measured or applied but the idea is right on.

[Uncle Joe]

13. It would have to start with our language followed by our actions, there must be some consequences

Last edited Tue Jul 22, 2014, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

to balance the situation.

The worst disaster to hit Israel in the past quarter century was the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, some other courageous leader (s) will need to step forward.

But that can only occur with a more balanced, equitable, just and sane approach from the U.S.

Peace to you, TheKentuckian.

[malaise]

12. Well said Uncle Joe

but as long as Israel holds on to Palestinian lands this will never stop and support for that land grab should also be removed. Rec

[Uncle Joe]

14. Thanks, malaise I also believe that's the crux of the problem, Palestine must be a viable nation.

Only then can Israel ever hope to find the long term prospects of obtaining peace.

That would call for the peacemakers to step forward and no doubt sacrifice but it's the only viable solution that would preserve Israel's humanity.

Peace to you, malaise.

[MohRokTah]

15. Agreed! eom

[Uncle Joe]

16. Thanks for the kick and rec, MohRokTah.

Peace to you.

[sadoldgirl]

17. Not quite sure,

whether any of this would make any difference anymore. Did we not tell Netanyahu to stop creating new settlements in the WB. Well, that certainly did not stop him or the Likud. I think that they believe right now that they can bamboozle the US all the time.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Our actions speak louder than our words, I believe we send Israel 2+ billion a year in aid, reducing

if not eliminating that should put across the message of no more blank checks in regards to their policies and behavior.

In addition there have been many times when the U.S. has abstained or vetoed U.N. Security Council Resolutions for some particular Israeli aggrievement and we've done this in an almost knee-jerk fashion without consideration as to whether the condemnation had merit or not.

Peace to you, sadoldgirl.

[Duppers]

41. It's more like $3 Billion in aid

Last edited Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:10 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_States_relations

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid

The U.S. paid for those bombs, yet we've the blame Putin for downing the passenger jet.
Just rich, uh.

[47of74]

18. Washington himself warned of such dangers

In his 1796 Farewell Address;

In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

[Uncle Joe]

23. That was a most profound and presicent warning from Washington.

Peace to you, 47of74.

[Aerows]

19. Well said, Uncle Joe

I support Israel, but I certainly don't support Netanyahu and his decisions as leader of the nation.

[Uncle Joe]

24. Thank you, Aerows.

Peace to you.

[countryjake]

20. After keeping close watch on our own media's "reporting" of this latest tragedy...

first the raids and horrific bombardment within Gaza, now the ground invasion, and more than likely, another Gaza occupation coming, and listening to our government's carefully measured response to it all, I honestly don't see anything different in our policy from what it has been since the very first occupation of Palestine, from Israeli leader to leader to leader over those many decades. I have never believed that the USA was anybody's pawn in the world (not during my lifetime, anyway), and it certainly has not been held hostage when it comes to positioning, promoting, and protecting its own interests in the Middle East. I see it as the very nature of US imperialism and what we are witness to during this past month, the terrorizing of a powerless people, is done in our name.

The pawns, the actual hostages in this latest attack on Gaza, are the innocent people of both Palestine and Israel who are directly affected by the inhumanity and immorality of this latest supposed fight against "terrorism, those who recognize the truth of the "conflict", and live the reality of it, daily, year after year.

[Uncle Joe]

28. There was a brief period of time before Yitzak Rabin was assassinated by a right wing extremist,

that the U.S. aggressively pushed for a solution.

Other than that, my perception of the situation is that we have DeFacto been their pawn anytime there has been push back against Israel's policies here in the U.S.

The inevitable "We support Israel" meme takes hold as if serious constructive criticism or actions preclude said critics from caring about that nation, sort of like opponents of war here in the U.S. are branded as not being patriotic.

Whoever is ruling over the chessboard whether it's Israel's radical right wing or the right wing imperialists and evangelical supporters here in the U.S. waiting for the end times, our national interests are not best served.

Peace to you, countryjake.

[cry baby]

21. Bookmarked! Well said. nt

[Uncle Joe]

29. Thanks for the kick, rec and bookmarking, cry baby.

Peace to you.

[Jefferson23]

25. Urge the U.S. Government to stop arming Israel

This summer, civilians have borne the brunt of the violence in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Much of this has been carried out with foreign supplied arms.

Amnesty International is calling for a UN-imposed comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. It is time for a UN-mandated international investigation into violations committed on all sides amidst Israel’s invasion of Gaza and indiscriminate rocket fire from Palestinian armed groups into Israel.

The U.S. government needs to do its part and stop giving munitions, weapons, crowd control devices, and military training to Israel.

in full: http://act.amnestyusa.org/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1839&ea.campaign.id=30408&ea.tracking.id=MessagingCategory_PrisonersandPeopleatRisk~MessagingCat


The Palestinians must receive a viable state, I do not see how peace will be possible without one.
Be careful of what are referred to as land swaps that could make it virtually impossible for a
viable state...bantustan would be more apt.

K&R

[Uncle Joe]

31. I agree, Jefferson, Palestine needs and deserves a viable state and I believe this arms embargo

on the parties is a logical and warranted step in the right direction to persuading the parties to cease fighting and work out a peaceful solution.

The U.S. should also use all its diplomatic and financial ability to bring about a course correction in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank or this wound to the region can only fester and resurface time and again as their humanity is drained away.

Peace to you, Jefferson.

[Jefferson23]

32. When their interests interfere with ours, we'll see the administration change, until then I

am not hopeful. Where there may still rest hope is the international community..maybe.

Peace for all of us, Uncle Joe...and thank you.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

30. Recamundo

I support Israel's right to exist and the idea of Israel as a Jewish homeland. I haven't liked the political leanings of some of their leaders, especially the right wing Likudniks. I shook my head at the rise of Ariel Sharon, the great champion of the settlements. Netanyahu's rise to power was as troubling to me as Nixon's election making me think that somehow the worst possible leader (at least for me) always seems to worm his way into office.

I have the same feeling about Russia: love the people and the culture, but not the current leader.

[Uncle Joe]

33. Thanks for the kick and recamundo, aint_no_life_nowhere.

I believe our unconditional support for Israel despite its policies, only serves to radicalize their government and you inevitably end up with the likes of Sharon and Netanyahu.


Peace to you.

[WillyT]

37. Hey Uncle Joe !!! - Did You Catch THIS:

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017204180

[Uncle Joe]

38. Yes I did, WillyT

It's a most candid and enlightening revelation of where Netanyahu is coming from.

That video makes the case for my OP.

Israel desperately needs just, forward thinking, peace desiring, progressive leadership but I don't believe it will ever happen so long as we blindly support them regardless of their actions.

By our actions we make Israel less safe always remaining in a perpetual state of war and/or enable the loss of its humanity.

Thanks for the link.

Peace to you, WillyT.

[WillyT]

39. And Peace To You !!!

[Uncle Joe]

40. Kicked for the 11:48 CST crowd.

You know who you are.