Thomas Kincade Dead (finally)

[TalkingDog]

California artist Thomas Kinkade, the "Painter of Light" whose brushwork paintings of idyllic landscapes, cottages and churches were big sellers for dealers across the country, died Friday, a family spokesman said.

Kinkade, 54, died at his home in Los Gatos in the Bay Area of what appeared to be natural causes, David Satterfield said.

Kinkade's sentimental paintings — with their cottages, country gardens and churches in dewy morning light — were beloved by middle-class America but generally dismissed by the art establishment.

The paintings typically depict tranquil scenes with lush landscaping and streams running nearby. Many contain images from Bible passages.

/snip

I generally hold my tongue when people I dislike fall ill or die. But today I will grant myself a one-time pass on decorum to dance on this huckster's hackneyed-ass, tired, trite, simplistic, saccharine grave.

He ran galleries into ruin with the contractual demands for being allowed to sell his work. He was a right wing shill and cared more about money than he ever cared about art.

He was an abusive, alcoholic asshole. And I hope that before the decade is out, everything he has ever touched in this world turns to absolute, irretrievable dust.

[unblock]

1. link?

[DontTreadOnMe]

2. KITSCH

... something that appeals to popular or lowbrow taste and is often of poor quality

Kinkade received criticism for the extent to which he had commercialized his art, for example, selling his prints on the QVC home shopping network. Others have written that his paintings are merely kitsch, without substance, and have described them as chocolate box art and "mall art".

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. 'mall art'

that fit's it perfectly.

[Snake Alchemist]

113. I always though Picasso and Andy Warhol were garbage. nt

[HangOnKids]

149. Do You Often Though?

Would explain why you don't understand art.

[Snake Alchemist]

154. Please tell me what I should think is good art. nt

[HangOnKids]

160. No Snake

Peddle it elsewhere buddy.

[Snake Alchemist]

161. So you won't share what art should be deemed good and what art should be deemed bad?

It's just like the garbage music out there like country and the blues.

[HangOnKids]

169. Amazed at Your Contribution To DU Snake

My silly 300+ contributions pale in contrast to your over 2700. And I joined before you, WOW. How do you do that? It is so awesome. You rock dude.

[Snake Alchemist]

182. Slack job where I can post often?

Considering that you cannot answer my questions I can see why your contribution is small .

[Ikonoklast]

193. You are confusing quantity with quality.

Not real surprising.

[Snake Alchemist]

202. I suppose it's like art. nt

[Ikonoklast]

203. You suppose incorrectly.

'Art' has meaning.

[Snake Alchemist]

209. I'm sure you could point out what is art and what is not. nt

[Drahthaardogs]

213. Some does, some of it is just ridiculous.

There is so much junk out there, Koonz comes to mind. Three basketballs floating in an aquarium that sells for $500,000. A blow up rabbit painted silver? Really? P.T. Barnum would be proud.

Frederick Remington on the other hand, now there was an artist, canvas, bronze, and charcoal, especially if you are from the southwest. Too bad he was a general tool, neo nazi type. However, he had talent.

A lot of modern art is pretentious bullshit artists, much like nouville cousine was for those who remembered that bullcrap from the 80's. A chicken wing on a plate for $35.00. Spare me.

[morningfog]

215. He does it by posting one line snark and baiting people into endless and

silly arguments over inane shit.

[HangOnKids]

219. Yep! Thanks for confirming what I thought n/t

[crunch60]

204. If you have to ask someone what is good art, you will never know the difference between

good, bad , or ugly art. Why don't you just decide for yourself and go with it. It's your living room and you have to look at whatever you hang on your walls.

[Snake Alchemist]

210. Many "artists" seem to be able to tell. nt

[polly7]

230. They've never been my favourites either.

And I do admit, I enjoy the warmth and comfort of Kincade paintings / prints. I wouldn't own one, but I never saw anything wrong with those who collected them. I'm sorry he's gone. That's way too young to leave behind a family who must be devastated.

[NYC_SKP]

127. Bait and Switch, Misrepresented, Scammer Trash on Canvas...

Scammer sold prints as originals. Textured prints made, then (probably underpaid) workers added "points of light", stipples of paint to the prints.

Then he sold them as "originals". Fuck him.

Some of the prints also feature light effects that are painted onto the print surface by hand by "skilled craftsmen," touches that add to the illusion of light and the resemblance to an original work of art, and which are then sold at higher prices.

Above from his wikipedia entry.

[HiPointDem]

140. And he's so different from the rest of the art world -- how? It's a seething pit of corruption.

[HangOnKids]

150. Call Your CongressPerson Right Now!!!!

That seething pit of corruption must be stopped.

[kpete]

3. 2 words

thank you

peace, kpete

[tularetom]

4. I thought he was already dead

And it apparent hasn't affected my life very much to find out he's been alive all this time.

His work was crappy but his business practices were even crappier.

Probably it won't affect me very much now that he has actually gone tits up.

[randome]

5. Is this an opportunity for you to show us how much 'in the know' you are?

I didn't think that much of Kincade's work but I would suggest you look to Vincent van Gogh for another example of an alcoholic asshole painter.

Just because a dog can talk doesn't mean it should say everything that comes to mind.

[edhopper]

9. Van Gogh

was very troubled, but was not an alcholoic asshole. His problems were much deeper and his artwork exponentially superior.

Gauguin on the other had was a definite asshole.

Kinkade was a hack with a moderate amount of skill.

[randome]

31. I agree about the skill. Or lack of it.

But many people DID like Kincade's paintings. Why proclaim glee at someone's death unless it's to showcase someone's insider knowledge?

[edhopper]

121. I agree,

we can disparage his art, but his death is still sad, bad art is not a capital crime.

[NYC_SKP]

143. Did somebody just insert Van Gogh into a thread about the hack-scammer-fraud, Kinkade?

Wow.

For me it's not even about assholery, or even talent, but the way Kinkade pawned off prints as originals.

[kpete]

13. are you comparing

Van Gogh with Kinkade?

THOSE ARE FIGHTING WORD!!!

kpete

suggest you start here, then get back to me when you are done:
i have WAY more
http://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/download/previews%20voor%20website%20publicaties/Pagina's%20van%20Studies2%20EN.pdf

[randome]

29. I am not comparing other than to point out that both were painters.

I already said I didn't care much for Kincade's work. I simply think it's not worth it to proclaim glee at someone's death.

Anyone's death.

But thanks for the link anyways!

[Mariana]

33. How many people did Van Gogh defraud? nt.

[randome]

34. Hey, I'm no expert on either van Gogh or Kincade.

But I won't dance on anyone's grave.

Some people truly liked Kincade's work. Go figure. That's not up to me to try and 'convince' someone it wasn't good. Or to 'convince' someone he was an asshole.

I usually don't mix personalities with art or music.

[Mariana]

163. Kinkade defrauded lots of people.

If his work had been magnificent, he would have been no less a crook. He sold prints as originals. He contracted with people to sell his stuff, promising no local competition, and then undercut them selling the same items for lower prices through other venues. He was sued and lost, mutliple times, over his scams. He also endangered people's lives by driving shitfaced. All of this is a matter of record, not just someone's opinion.

I'm not dancing on his grave, either, but don't pretend people dislike him only on account of his lousy paintings.

[Surya Gayatri]

45. +1! n/t

[WillowTree]

73. That "Just because a dog can talk......." line is about as on the mark as anything I've ever heard!

I LOVE that one. May I use it now and again?

[randome]

81. Well, it may only have relevance...

...to a poster who calls himself TalkingDog but, yeah, it's not a copyrighted phrase so use it safely and appropriately!

[TalkingDog]

78. Did Van Gogh create such draconian contractual obligations that he bankrupted thousands

of small business owners?

Because, when I measure ass-holery, I generally go by damage done.

And just because you can respond to a posting... it doesn't mean you should.

[frylock]

98. pablo picasso was never called an asshole

[FSogol]

229. +1

[MineralMan]

6. -1000 I don't like Kinkade paintings, either.

But, dancing on this man's grave is in very poor taste, indeed. Neither his life, his art, or his death are of sufficient importance to warrant such a response. I suggest that you self-delete this ugly OP and rethink why you posted it.

[babylonsister]

10. Thanks, and I agree. Very unnecessary. nt

[kpete]

24. babylonsister

I certainly do not mean to be offensive
but art is a HUGE part of my life

someone once gave me a "painting of life"
i tried to find a place in the laundry room for it,
it actually made me ill to look at it
i gave it away

sorry, sensitive subject for me
peace, kpete

[babylonsister]

46. I don't/didn't

like his art at all, kpete, but to put (finally) after his death because someone doesn't like his art seems a bit over-the-top, even for here. I don't know anything about his personal life, and don't care because he didn't interest me.

[kpete]

47. okay

a RIP for Kinkade
but NOT his work (or his work ethic)

peace, kpete

[Surya Gayatri]

48. I know what you mean, kpete...

bad art can affect the human body the same way bad music does--it creates negative resonances that can literally make you sick.

[redqueen]

53. Wat

[Surya Gayatri]

57. I'd like to engage with you Redqueen, but

I have no idea what "Wat" means.

Apparently, you've got an issue with what I said to kpete, but beyond that, I'm lost...

Please elucidate!

[redqueen]

59. Sorry...

I was just very struck by the claim that bad art and music could have a negative effect on a persons's health. If you have any links or information to share I'd be curious to see it.

[Surya Gayatri]

69. Right, now I understand! Here are just a couple of

links where these topics are discussed (if you read up on Indian music, you'll find millenniums worth of research on the effects of sound on our bodies):

http://ithp.org/articles/music.html

"Of course, all sound affects us. It does this in four ways: physiologically (entrainment can change our heart rate, breathing, hormone secretions and even brain waves); psychologically (affecting our moods and emotions); cognitively (changing how well we think); and behaviourally (we move away from unpleasant sound if we can). Most of this effect is non-conscious: we have become used to suppressing sound because we’re commonly surrounded by noise in the modern world.

Music is particularly powerful for three reasons. First, it consciously uses all the aspects of sound, such as tempo, melody, harmony, voice and timbre. Second, we recognise it very fast (think of the opening chord of Hard Day’s Night). Third, we associate it strongly with remembered experience (think of the opening two notes of the Jaws theme)."

http://l-pawlik-kienlen.suite101.com/how-colors-affect-emotional-physical-health-a101828

"Research shows that colors affect your emotional and physical health. A color intuitive shares how red, blue, and green affects your brain and body in different ways."

Hope these few paragraphs are helpful...

edit: typo

[redqueen]

77. Thank you!

I tend to want to dismiss these things out of hand due to having a pretty skeptical mindset. I appreciate you providing some links for me to take a moment to consider at length.

[dixiegrrrrl]

183. "colors affect your emotional and physical health."

Totally agree with that, even before the dozens of studies came out to "prove it"

Thanks for link.....

[Snake Alchemist]

116. I agree. Any classical music or The Blues makes me literally nauseas. nt

[CTyankee]

190. When you say "classical" music what exactly are you talking about?

Technically speaking, the "classical" era in music was Haydn and Mozart primarily. Are you also including the Baroque era of Bach and Handel? Are you also excluding the Romantics such as the later Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Schuman and most opera? These are all very different styles of music. Which exactly make you sick? Can you give me any specific works that you find offensive physically?

[crunch60]

206. I agree, for instance, I cannot listen to Mariah Carey's voice, her singing literally hurts my ears.

[IDemo]

12. +1000

Thank you and randome above for your comments.

Regardless of your opinions on a person's artistic merits or politics, the grave dancing rituals get old around here.

[redqueen]

14. I was wondering what was so terrible about him that could warrant this.

Never paid much attention to him, so I am unaware of the unnamed abuses which apparently motivated this nastiness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I agree. Thank you.

[marions ghost]

72. Someone who has his "art" in 1 in 20 households in America IS important

-- this is the death of one of the most brilliant socially-approved scam artists of our time.

You're off base here, MineralMan. Kinkade had his finger on the pulse of America. And he lined his pockets on the exploitation of the fact that most Americans will buy anything they think other people are buying, especially if it represents a vague notion of "security."

Kinkade sold" hope and inspiration"--not art. But the poor people who invested (one I read up to $80K) did not know that. They believed they were buying something of value.

This is an important story and it's totally appropriate to bring attention to scoundrels like Kinkade and Bernie Madoff.

[MineralMan]

74. Nonsense. People buy what they like.

Dancing on this guy's grave is just in poor taste. If people want to buy his junk art, let them.

[marions ghost]

76. Read up on how he defrauded his gallery investors

that's OK?

Sure you can argue that people were free to buy his junk--but it was sold under false pretenses, that the work was ORIGINAL and had a certain value in the art world. The works were not original--they were reproductions touched up by others.

His whole enterprise was a lie and fraudulent. But this is OK with you...

[TalkingDog]

79. And THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout....

n/t

[MineralMan]

86. It's not what you're talking about. It's how you're talking about it.

Gravedancing is ugly. Celebrating people's deaths is ugly. If you do it, you can expect to be criticized for it, and rightly so.

[MineralMan]

84. No, Kinkade is not OK with me. But you know what's more not OK?

Gravedancing about people who have nothing to do with politics. Even people who have something to do with politics should not have their deaths celebrated here. It's in very bad taste.

Now, if someone wanted to post an OP discussing Kinkade's relationships with his gallery owners or the quality of his "artwork," that would be fine and topical. However celebrating his death is not fine. It's ugly. You'll notice that a number of people have pointed that out in this thread.

Being ugly is not a progressive value. Gravedancing is not a progressive value. It's just ugly.

This post was alerted on and allowed to stand. That's fine. Expressions of disgust about gravedancing are also fine.

Are you celebrating his death? That's shameful, even if it's allowed on DU. Even Neil would object, if he was sober enough.

[marions ghost]

102. Censorship is not OK either--

I don't celebrate Kinkade's death--you can never kill greed and avarice, so there's no reason to celebrate.
I don't see the negative reactions here as celebration. It's important to get to some truth about who he really was, instead of buying the pap & it's necessary to be negative to do that about Kinkade. It is time to judge him, not to nit pick about semantics.

The bigger picture: Someone who has had an impact on American life and culture in a big way has died. His legacy of unoriginal, falsely-represented paintings live on, to bear witness to the Kinkade phenomenon. A LOT of people don't like what he stood for and HOW he did what he did--the lies, the fraud in the name of "art" (and in the name of "Christianity" I might add--what he did was certainly not what I think of as Christian).

Kinkade's life and work was ugly and shameful.

[Surya Gayatri]

88. Word! Fraudster!!!

[obamanut2012]

125. It is not grave dancing to speak the truth of someone

He was a major scam artist, who knowingly drove people into bankruptcy while fattening his own bank account, all in the name of wholesome Christian values.

I personally think he was a hack, but art, like music, is very personal, so if people liked his stuff, so what. But, it is a FACT that he was a major grifter, and there's nothing wrong with discussing that.

[crunch60]

207. Kinkade was a charlatan, he died, no dancing, the end. nt

[magical thyme]

80. thank you for putting "art" in quotations

also, just a nit, but to the poster earlier who said Van Gogh was a painter, too, um...Van Gogh was an artist.

After all, house painters dip brushes in paint, too.

[Surya Gayatri]

85. +1,000 ! n/t

[obamanut2012]

122. Major Props to your post

Especially this line:

this is the death of one of the most brilliant socially-approved scam artists of our time.

[marions ghost]

134. thanks

I wish more people could see the big picture about this...

This is NOT an "us vs them" debate about "high art vs low art."

This is about the phenomenal success of a marketing campaign based on fundamental lies.

[Starry Messenger]

129. +1000

He is like the Bush/Reagan legacy in pictorial form too. Fake America, fake prosperity, fake comfort and security. If you want good American pastoral art, there are far more worthy examples.

[cordelia]

108. Nicely put. Thank you.

[Archae]

7. I happen to like Kinkade paintings.

So you art snobs who slam his paintings can go piss up a rope.

[crunch60]

205. Art is subjective, so you can like whatever art you want to lilke.. But I am not a snob

just because I dislike Kinkade and his paintings, that's my right.

[Iris]

8. 54 and natural causes?

Really?

I saw him recently on a shopping channel and he looked a lot older than 54.

[MineralMan]

22. Sadly, lots of people die in their 50s of natural causes.

That decade is an especially dangerous one for many people, especially men.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

70. Word is he was an alcoholic.

That'll age you in a hurry, maybe kill you.

[Tom Ripley]

11. I never knew that kitsch was a natural cause

[kpete]

15. it can

kill you

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. OMG talk about grave dancing

I wasn't a fan but this is gross.

[90-percent]

19. i liked his stuff

it was fun to look at at the local mall gallery stores. lots of nostalgia and pretty colors that don't exist on anything in real life.

like painting your home in candy apple red* with metalflake green window trim. shiny stuff reminds me of the colored anodized aluminum wire shopping baskets from the 50's supermarkets i barely remember from my childhood.

nostalgia for the past is a hobby of mine.

norman rockwell is another guy that was kitsch but i enjoyed. i recall on DU recently there was some of his REMARKABLE paintings of the American Segregation Era. Their message in the context of those times is downright heroic and very inspiring, even in these times of the last throes of discrimination, hopefully.

-90% Jimmy

*google house of color

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. One of my closest friends is a gifted painter

She was a fan of Kincaid. She loved his use of color.

I consider her opinion to be far more educated than most.

Still, no excuse for this OP, which is just grave dancing.

[marions ghost]

97. Read up on Kinkade--he was a scoundrel

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2002/2002-03-12-kinkade.htm

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/092006/09212006/220020

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2006/08/29/california-artist-accused-of-defrauding-investors/

[WorseBeforeBetter]

172. "Being defrauded is awful enough, but doing it in the name of God is really despicable."

Sums it up pretty well. If I'm not mistaken, Kinkade even had his very own L&O:SVU episode.

What scum.

[marions ghost]

178. not surprised

will look up that episode...

[90-percent]

216. L&O:SVU

I'm sorry, but I prefer:

NTSF SD SUV for my television crime shows

-90% jimmy

[Surya Gayatri]

51. Agree, 90%, with your assessment

that "norman rockwell is another guy that was kitsch".

Rockwell did, however, redeem himself occasionally by producing cartoon-like art as social/political commentary. AFAIK, Kincade took no such risk.

[randome]

61. LOL!

I agree with you about the 'kitsch' part.

But I, for one, don't look at a Norman Rockwell painting -or ANY painting- and think about the artist's politics before I decide whether I like it or not.

I doubt most people do.

[Surya Gayatri]

82. No, of course you don't, and nor do I...

"look at a Norman Rockwell painting -or ANY painting- and think about the artist's politics before I decide whether I like it or not."

That being said, the artist's political sensibilities become evident under closer observation. That's all I'm saying.

Rockwell took the risk through his art of alienating certain of his fans, by commenting on the political scene of the time (c.f. his tableau of the black school girl and the federal marshals).

Kincade never dared to confront his clientele and fan-base with any such "thoughtful" renderings.

[randome]

87. Agree with that, too.

[marions ghost]

103. Also very important-- Rockwell actually PAINTED his paintings...

and his illustrations were distributed cheaply in magazines, whereas Kinkade made his products into collectible objects by manufacturing their preciousness. Kinkade USED Rockwell to give his works legitimacy.

Rockwell was an artist. Kinkade was a factory owner.

[Surya Gayatri]

119. +1,000 ! n/t

[grasswire]

145. yes, Rockwell chronicled great social changes of his era...

...in ways that touched the minds and hearts of the American people and reminded them of our common sentiments.

Kincaid only chronicled lovely neighborhood homes, AFIK.

[eridani]

142. Norman Rockwell was a real artist, not a scammer

I find him appealing in the same way as Family Circus--enough connection reality to redeem whatever corniness is there.

[redqueen]

20. How was he abusive?

It must have been seriously awful to say "finally" in reference to someone who died at 54.

[Bolo Boffin]

180. It's a combination of his nauseating art and his fraudulent business practices, I think.

I personally try to mourn everyone who dies, even if it's just "what a waste, that's all his or her life will be."

People bought his stuff, but people buy crack, too. And it's not like the Kinkade art-industrial complex will end any time soon. Kinkade's style is mega-easy for a competent artist to master, and Kinkade-estate-approved art will still be stocking Kinkade galleries for decades to come. Hell, he's probably had ghost artists producing the masters now for years, to go along with the ones adding oil paint highlights to the prints made from them.

[edbermac]

21. He was no Bob Ross.

[Hubert Flottz]

43. Something ANY "series" artists should see...

[XemaSab]

109. Bob Ross' schtick was teaching other people to paint

It's not like there are galleries selling his stuff.

[hayrow1]

23. There are times you just have to tell it like it is and damn the torpedos. Excellant post.

[Typical NYC Lib]

25. Did he run over your dog or something?

Did he start any wars?

If you were talking about Cheney, or Rumsfeld, or Wolfowitz, I'd be applauding right along with you. But a painter?

[progressoid]

66. He peed on Winnie the Pooh.

Oh, and scammed gallery owners for millions.

[slackmaster]

26. He was only 54 years old. I'm 54 years old. I never liked his work, but this post is insensitive.

:kick:

[Typical NYC Lib]

27. It is also a dupe thread

of http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002527873

[HangOnKids]

152. No it is not, it is an opinion piece about Tom Kincade

Not the same as the post you referenced. Thank you for the concern about Tom though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Kincade was to art what cotton candy is to nutrition.

A profitable schtick.

[Old and In the Way]

32. Really? "Finally"?

I have no real art appreciation - I can't tell you what is good or bad art. I know Kinkade's back story, but I don't get the hatred. It's not like he was a murderer or dictator.

[Surya Gayatri]

90. He was however, a scam artist and a fraudster...n/t

[dionysus]

226. so that makes it okay to cheer his death? what is wrong with you?

[Surya Gayatri]

227. No cheering and nothing wrong, dionysus--just a reaffirmation

of the facts of Kinkade's ethics...even criticized the OP's cheering, c.f. this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=529128

[dionysus]

228. i agree he seems to have been a rotten guy, i just find the zeal with which some folks seem to be

happy about his demise.. a bit off.

[hlthe2b]

35. Very very ugly... He was only 54.

Last edited Sat Apr 7, 2012, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I was not really a fan of his art, though I can see what attracted many to it. As you claim, he may have been an alcoholic--I don't know. He may have been "guilty" of other 'sins'...But, he was beloved by his family and many many fans.

You post is just plain UGLY.

[Iggo]

36. You've been waiting for him to die?

[Rowdyboy]

37. Hate is an acid that destroys the vessel in which it is stored......n/t

[ElboRuum]

38. Who?

Oh that guy? Yeah, sorry he's dead and stuff. Moving on...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. What an assholish way to announce someone's death. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Criticize the man's art or business strategies all you like, I don't care.

But honestly, really, "finally"? The guy made harmless kitsch art.

It's not like he led a propaganda campaign to send us to war in Iraq.

[Typical NYC Lib]

68. My sentiments exactly

In fact, I'm surprised this hasn't been reported. Heck, I'd do it myself if I weren't a newb.

[polly7]

40. I have no idea about his business practices or personal problems, but

RIP Mr. Kincade. 54 is way too young, and I'm sorry for all the people who will mourn him as a person, friend and family member.

[Surya Gayatri]

41. Agree about the quality of his commercial

production passed off as art. Paint-by number, repetitive schlock, IMHO. Can't tell one canvass from another.

However, celebrating his premature death is perhaps a bit OTT.

edit: typo

[pipoman]

42. History is littered with dead artists who, during their lifetime necessarily

found markets for their works, some more successfully than others. I always find it quaint when self appointed art critics proclaim this person or that 'not an artist'. As if art has to fit a certain frame to be art. Art inspires emotion, and without a doubt Kinkade's art inspired emotion in people. These self important critics are a bunch of sheep following the naked king around proclaiming his new invisible clothes to be terrific.

Want examples?



Andy Warhol



Picasso

Oh hell, look for yourself..

http://www.google.com/search?q=contemporary+art&hl=en&prmd=imvnslb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=nleAT9nqCYasgweMmY3kBw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CFcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=770

The 'art community' is riddled with self important, 1%er, no talent, tin eyed, ass wipes who I wouldn't set across from for a cup of tea..trying to influence the opinions of the unwashed masses with their snide comments and self proclaimed expertise..IOW, nobodies..

Artists have always tried to gain recognition while still alive through commercial ventures. Why should only future generations profit enormous rewards from their holdings of the labor of others? Kinkade's originals quadrupled overnight and will trade for prices unreachable by you or I for the remainder of modern time..TalkingDog OTOH is simply a voice in the deserted canyon of time..

[Atman]

49. Most excellent post.

Kinkaid's work makes me gag, but many people enjoy it. There is no denying that he was an artist, and he was talented. I just don't like the product of his talent. If one wants to find fault in the man, find fault in his scamming business practices and heavy-handed religiosity. But it's silly to claim he wasn't an artist.

[pipoman]

65. Yeah, these people remind me

of a visit to a local cigar bar. Sitting there listening to this group of stuffed shirt, brandy snifters discussing floral notes with chocolate undertones while billowing out great clouds of air pollution.

[Comrade Grumpy]

91. Maybe you should avoid cigar bars.

I mean really. Go to a cigar bar and complain about cigar smoke?

[pipoman]

99. Who complained about cigar smoke?

I went there to smoke a cigar. What I find silly are the self appointed 'aficionados' pretending to taste peanut butter and jelly in their tuna fish sandwich.

[provis99]

111. actually, YOU complained about cigar smoke.

calling it air pollution is not flattering.

[HangOnKids]

156. LOL!

Boom.

[redqueen]

67. Nice.

[HiPointDem]

144. Not to mention that it's controlled by rich people whose primary interest is in elevating the value

of their own investments, laundering money, and getting tax breaks for their supposed "philanthropy".

[eridani]

157. Not interested in appreciating art--just in art that appreciates n/t

[edhopper]

147. First

that's not a Picasso.
Second: Are you trying to compare Kinkade's art to Picasso's?

[HangOnKids]

162. Interesting That Someone Up Thread Mentioned Those Exact Artists

With all the artist in the world those two get mentioned. Odd that.

[pipoman]

195. You're the only one so far to catch that

No comparison. I would bet that there are about 100 Kinkade prints for every one Picasso displayed in people's homes. Most people...regular, non-"art community" people, going about their daily, non art community lives and they appreciate a Kinkade over most Picasso's.

Now a question for you, are you agreeing with the OP? Are you denying Kinkade's works are art?

[HangOnKids]

197. Scram dude

I have nothing to say to you.

[pipoman]

200. That's what I thought..

on edit,,who the hell was talking to you? Looks like you've been talking to yourself and continued talking to yourself right into this sub-thread..which I started btw..

[edhopper]

217. It's art

it's just that it is bad art.

[pipoman]

218. Beauty is in the eye...

I'm not a fan of his work, but I don't like many artists work, some I love..I don't know if there is really any such thing as "bad art"...

[edhopper]

221. Oh, his is bad art.

I don't have the time or patience for a detailed critique. But this is different than art one might appreciate, but not enjoy.
This is just schmaltzy, bad art. Painted with serviceable, but not superior skill.

[kentuck]

44. What is art?

I don't understand this thread or most of the responses?

[uncle ray]

54. this thread.

performance art.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

212. :D

[Strelnikov_]

89. Beats me. But I'll tell you one thing . . .

When Barry Manilow dies I'm gonna make a hater post that will blow your hair back.

{Jesus . . Mandy . . can't get it out of my head . . please make it stop . . }

[pipoman]

101. It is a sense

some people are color blind, some are deaf, some have numbness, some can't smell, some can't taste, some have no taste..

[Nye Bevan]

50. Because it's always worth celebrating when "alcoholic assholes" die in their 50s.

Nice post.

[DavidDvorkin]

52. Well said

Of course, you're now being attacked for daring to speak ill of the dead. That's the DU way.

I wonder if we'll ever find out what those "natural causes" were? Overindulgence in something, I assume.

[Surya Gayatri]

60. +1! If only TalkingDog had left off the

slightly ghoulish "finally"...

Otherwise, his artistic assessment is spot on, IMHO!

[doc03]

55. What did he ever do to you that you hate him that much? n/t

[redqueen]

56. Overcharged for paintings misleadingly described as originals, is all I've seen so far.

And being a RWer.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Geez. You'd think the guy started an illegitimate war or something. n/t

[RZM]

62. Grave dancing is bad enough over politics

Doing it over this is even more ridiculous.

[emilyg]

63. Unrec.

[Johnny Rico]

64. Unrec.

[K Gardner]

71. Why don't we have an UNREC button? n/t

[Skip Intro]

131. We used to. I miss it too. nt

[CTyankee]

75. I thought his stuff was lousy. But some artists we love today were once considered trashy

by their contemporaries. And even great artists could be considered assholes, judging by the way they treated others in their lives. Caravaggio killed a man. In a fit of jealousy, Bernini had his servant slash his lover's face (and she was the wife of his assistant!). And there were plenty of alcoholics among their ranks. Jackson Pollack comes to mind, and he drunkenly drove his car into a wall, killing himself and another passenger. As a friar in charge of a convent, Fra Filippo Lippi seduced and impregnated a young noviate who was his model for the Madonnas he was painting.

I won't go on but you get my drift.

I certainly can't see a way that Kinkade's works could be in any respect considered art, but I didn't know/care much about him.

[kwassa]

168. Kincade ain't no Caravaggio. Bad behavior doesn't make a sentimentalist hack a great artist.

The comparison is rather funny, considering Caravaggio's crime was to make his art too real for sensibilities of his time. Kincade is essentially a fantasy artist, peddling a form of longing for a world that has never been.

Caravaggio



Kincade

[CTyankee]

188. Please, I didn't mean to insinuate at all that I put those two artists in the same category...

my point was that you can't just use that argument with nothing more. Of course, we have "more." My real contempt for Kincade is his disregard for any kind of soul for his works. Appeal of colors has LONG been the painter's "thing" and is certainly attainable where the artist has vision. I see with Kincade just a chaotic mess of thrown together colors that don't seem to spring from an artist's vision.

You have shown Kincade's "vision" with his pathetic attempt at capitalizing on Monet's bridge. You might want to see the one that Monet did:

[IMG][/IMG]

[rustydog]

83. How nice that you've "given yourself a pass" to rip on the dead

Thomas Kincade was a gifted "Commercial" artist who found his niche and reaped great reward.
I do not like his style, I do not like his paintings.

May he rest in peace, he was the love of someone's life, he was someone's beautiful baby boy and now he has died. let it go, ok.

[emilyg]

92. I have 2 of his

paintings in my bdroom. They give me joy. May he rest in peace and his family find peace.

[marions ghost]

105. ...and he was a crook and a fraud

Kinkaid told people his paintings were ORIGINAL and sold them for a lot of money, but they were done by a factory and are not worth the canvas they're reproduced on. He also scammed the owners of his nationwide network of galleries.

THIS is the problem, not that someone happens to like kitschy schlock. If people want to buy kitschy shlock at FAIR prices, that's fine. But Thomas Kinkade inflated his prices based on the buyer's belief that this was truly important art that would hold it's value over time, ie. an investment. Any reputable art dealer or appraiser will tell you that there is no market for Kinkades other than eBay. So long, suckers = classic American business philosophy unfortunately. The Kinkade phenom is a sociological & business world one--it's not about art.

[eridani]

155. Hiring underpaid staff to 'touch up' reproductions and pass them off as originals is not--

--the same thing as being a artist. Nor is it a legitimate business. However, anyone's death diminishes all of us.

[liberalhistorian]

93. Sorry, but unless it's Hitler, Stalin

Pol Pot or other murderous dictators responsible for the suffering and death of millions, gravedancing of any type is disgusting, despicable and makes the gravedancer no better than the person whose demise they're celebrating. Rejoicing over death is sickening, no matter who it is.

[marions ghost]

104. where's the rejoicing?

It's just a timely outpouring of negative criticism which the deceased richly deserves.

[Posteritatis]

106. Er, in the OP ("finally," too), where grave-dancing is explicitly mentioned. (nt)

[marions ghost]

112. Kinkade had made half a billion based on fraudulent practices by age 44 ...

--does this not make him as representative of American business values as Bernie Madoff?

You are hung up on the WAY the OP expressed his disgust, not on WHY the OP is disgusted. The expression of disgust is actually not as bad as it could be. And the essence of it is legitimate.

Sometimes expressions of outrage go a bit over the top. Why not try to see why people feel compelled to diss Kinkade upon his death. People are always judged upon their death. And he deserves to be trashed for the way he lived his life.

[randome]

117. Because to some people, what Kinkade did was 'art'.

I don't think much of it but one thing I do know -you should never judge 'art' by the creator's personality. Same goes for music or literature.

[marions ghost]

126. Not what I am saying...

I couldn't care less if people want to waste their money (on whatever), but I DO care when what they buy is represented as something it isn't.

I judge Kinkade by the fact that he sold his generic reproductions as original art. He duped people into thinking his works had the same value as original artwork that has been made honestly--this was a lie and he knew it.

Kinkades should have been sold at the prices that one would pay for what comes out of art factories in China, where you can get your very own Picasso. But he did not price it at those low-end prices and through clever marketing, led people to believe these products were very precious. And then when the curtain fell like it did exposing the Wizard of Oz, he further showed his colors by skunking the people who had invested in his vanity galleries. I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that Kinkade's enterprises had
cult-like characteristics, exploiting Christianity and nostalgia for easier times. Just smart marketing?

Crookedness should not be defended as "personality." This is damaging to society on so many levels. It reflects attitudes that are not consistent with integrity in business, attitudes that hurt us all.

[randome]

141. The people who bought his 'art' probably didn't care if they were duped.

Since they bought what they liked, not what kind of ethics the artist had.

'Clever marketing'? Eh. Unfair and overpriced? Undoubtedly. So? People STILL liked what they bought.

[marions ghost]

151. Most people don't like to get skunked

I think people DO care when they are duped--I know I do. Many of the people who bought his work were reassured by his Christian overtones and you'd think Christians are concerned with ethics (or should be).
They were told they were buying a valuable precious object. It's similar to stock fraud. This is not an honorable way to do business. But that's how it is in America. Your laissez faire attitude reflects the tolerance that allows it to happen. But it is an interesting phenomenon, that people will buy into an idea of beauty and serenity, even while they are being so badly exploited. Sad statement about our society.

[HangOnKids]

166. ^^^^THIS^^^^ n/t

[marions ghost]

171. Glad you got that out

[HangOnKids]

173. Props baby Props! n/t

[marions ghost]

187. got it

[Darth_Kitten]

133. Exactly.

[TheManInTheMac]

94. Wow! DU's art critics are TOUGH!

[kentuck]

95. Have you seen his painting of Piss Christ?

Very controversial and with a social/political comment. The light reflects off the piss in a way that no other artist could paint. Probably will be his only painting that will be shown in a national museum?

Just kidding.

[eridani]

164. That's actually true about the light. Ken Kesey had an article in Whole Earth Review--

--years ago, where he described how he fell asleep in front of the TV one night and woke up in a daze thinking he was seeing a vision of the crucified Christ glowing golden. Only on becoming fully awake did he realize that he was watching a news program about the Piss Christ.

BTW, Serrano is actually a practicing Catholic, and supposedly his goal here was to point out that most Christians don't take the doctrine of incarnation all that seriously. At one of our art festival weekends, I saw another in the series--an intaglio pressing of an image of Christ on paper that he called Milk Christ. That one didn't stir up as much controversy for some reason.

Me, when I first heard of it, I thought of the Taoist proverb "Where is the Tao? In urine and excrement. Cleave the rock--there am I."

[Seedersandleechers]

96. Maybe just maybe

your Kincade is my Rush Limpballs.




(My roommate painter loved your assessment)

[Taverner]

100. Look - I don't like him any more than you.

But I don't wish him death

Beisdes, 54 is way too young...

[GoCubsGo]

123. +1

He may have been an asshole, but still... And, that asshole has family and friends that loved him. Dancing on his grave does a disservice to them, and they don't deserve that.

FWIW, I am not generally a fan of his works, although there is a part of me that does enjoy the "warm and fuzzy" aspects of his paintings. As someone pointed out in another thread, there is something that's comforting about them, kind of like a Christmas card. And, I do like the bright colors. But, that's where it ends for me.

[marions ghost]

132. Get real

Kinkade is a very polarizing public figure. We owe nothing to his family. Kinkade owes something to the families he scammed, but I doubt his surviving family will be very generous to the people he skunked.

Warm and fuzzy sells and that is OK. I only wish real life were like a Christmas card. But you don't pay thousands for a Christmas card and you don't think of it as an investment. People paid thousands for his paintings.

The syrupy images--you shouldn't have to apologize for liking those. The issue is HOW he inflated the prices and sold them as originals, and how he became a sort of god-like figure. It was a cult, really. Nobody who bought a Kinkade had ever learned anything from The Wizard of Oz...

At least if you bought a piece of land in a Florida swamp, you have a piece of land in a Florida swamp. Buying a Kinkade is a worse investment. You have a piece of canvas with a generic unoriginal picture stamped on it by a factory. It is the lie that it is the same as, say, the art of Norman Rockwell, that is the problem. Rockwell was an artist, Kinkade was a factory owner.

[GoCubsGo]

135. Get real, yourself.

You hate the guy. We get it. Some of us don't feel the need to dance on his grave, no matter how awful he was. If people thought his paintings were worth thousands of dollars, that's their business.

[marions ghost]

136. i dont "hate" the guy--he's a sad, twisted character deserving of pity

--but I guess in your opinion, crooks should not be called out just because their time on earth has expired. Kinkade's dubious legacy lives on...

What I hate is massive frauds that get as far as Kinkade's did. Echoes what is wrong in our society too much.

[GoCubsGo]

138. You "guess" is right.

But, your guess is wrong. The time for being "called out" is when the person is alive, and something can done about their behavior. Too late for that.

[marions ghost]

146. The "life" of a figure like Kinkade

does not end with his death. Kinkade will go down as one of the greatest scammers of all time and that is quite a legacy. As for "doing something about their behavior"--this is not possible with such morally deficient individuals. Exploiters with serious delusions of grandeur do not change with gentle persuasion--they don't even change if they're sued up the wazoo. They are perfect in their own eyes. Forever. It is a deeply engrained psychological defense.

All you can do is warn others against this sort of exploitation. It's one thing if you pay too much for a Kinkade mug--but it's another if you are stuck with a so-called original painting you paid thousands for that turns out to be a fake. Watch for the glut of Kinkades on eBay stretching into the distant future....the only people trying to maintain the prices will be unscrupulous dealers.

[GoCubsGo]

175. He's dead.

He's not going to scam anyone else. Sheesh.

[marions ghost]

181. His legacy lives on

...even tho his stock has gone down...there will be some who would make him into a marketable dead person and trade on his name. Or if they can't do that, they will be inspired by his dubious success.
Greed and avarice is alive and well.

[Taverner]

159. Empathy. Put yourself in his family's shoes...

Just do that, and tell me what you see.....

[marions ghost]

170. I have serious empathy

for the millions of people who got exploited by Kinkade on his way to the pinnacle from which he fell. I'm not a believer in "buyer beware"-- I would rather see a demand for more ethical business practices to protect consumers and investors. I'm also empathetic to the situation of honest artists who don't get rich because they don't sell their souls. I'm empathetic to people who make a difference in their communities without forming their own cults of me-worship. Etc etc

Just because someone's relative has died I don't feel any special empathy, especially if I don't like what that relative stood for. We all have had relatives die and it hurts like crap but I save my emotions for people I care about. That doesn't mean I wish his family any ill. But we are talking about a public figure who leaves a dubious legacy. The truth about his activity is fair game.

I have sympathy for his family (for being related and having lost him) but I do NOT have empathy for them. BIG difference.

[Taverner]

176. Jeez - cold - but that's just my impression here

That's just my impression

[marions ghost]

184. maybe so

you're probably kinder & gentler than me. I don't have excess empathy to spare for those who exploit and hurt others. I just leave them to God, or the Great Aardvark, whoever is in control. I don't "hate" on them but I will not give them any undue consideration, since they show none for others. Reap what you sow.

[Taverner]

158. There are better "warm and fuzzy" artists...

Do a Google...

[GoCubsGo]

177. Oh, for sure.

But, they aren't the subject of this thread.

[Throd]

107. I'll never forget when he forced me to by one of his paintings at gunpoint.

[madinmaryland]

110. Un-reccing for grave dancing. nt

[LiberalEsto]

114. His paintings were to the past couple of decades, what velvet Elvises were

to the 1960s & 70s.

Pure, unadulterated schlock.

[provis99]

115. some typical art by Kincade.

oh, wait, that piece was done by Hitler. Here's one by Kincade:


Either Kincade was almost as good an artist as Hitler, or Kincade's "art" was garbage.

[obamanut2012]

130. Is that really one of Hitler's paintings???

I've always read he was a terrible artist, and that isn't terrible by any means.

[Rex]

139. He was not a terrible artist, his father did not want him to be

an artist so he gave it up. Imagine how things would be had he never listened to his father and became an artist anyway. How different the world would be imo.

[Cleita]

165. Not true. Yes, his father wanted him to be a civil servant, but didn't

stop him from pursuing his dream. He couldn't get into the Vienna Academy of Fine Arts because his talent was mediocre. He was rejected twice and told maybe he should try architecture. It's not known if he ever applied for that.

[Cleita]

137. Weren't Hilter's works sold on postcards to tourists?

Apparently Kincade's belongs in the Hallmark greeting cards category.

I had a co-worker who used to copy his works and sell them at swap meets. She was really good at it too. She could have made an excellent art forger. She stuck to Kincade though.

[Snake Alchemist]

118. Artists can be a strange lot. Always telling people what REAL art is. nt

[obamanut2012]

120. Your OP subject title made me laugh -- I agree with you!

He was an abusive alcoholic and a fraud who ripped off a lot of people, including gallery owners. All covered with a nice Conservative Fundie facade.

I did not call for his art at all and considered him a hack, but I'll not comment any more on that aspect of his life. His lack of ethics and his heinous treatment of others is what I judge him on.

[NYC_SKP]

124. K/R and good for you. A Jury LOCKED my OP for saying pretty much the same thing.

I threw in George Zimmerman, who, after a trial, I would not miss if he left this world.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002529161

I never ever support violence and am against capital punishment...

But, for me, the world is a better place without certain people.

And, some jurors are just too funny!

[joeybee12]

128. Fux Noise called him one of the most influential artists of the century...

All you need to know about how bad this schmuck was.

[Flying Squirrel]

148. I used to be an abusive, alcoholic asshole.

Now I`m just a recovering alcoholic. Knowing what I know now, if he was really alcoholic, it is merciful that he`s finally dead. He must have been living one miserable existence, regardless of his financial situation. Or perhaps especially because of the money because he then would have known that his misery hadn`t been cured by becoming rich. The average alcoholic is in such denial about their condition that few ever even recognize it. They die early, lonely deaths like Kincaide. The abuse they heap upon others, which is a symptom of their disease, is nothing compared to the abuse they heap upon themselves. RIP, Thomas, and may your death be the thing which finally allows another still-suffering alcoholic to see the truth about him or herself.

[marions ghost]

153. excellent comment

We have all seen the devastation of alcoholism. May you continue to overcome, Flying Squirrel.

[Cleita]

167. It also helps if you have enough money to drink yourself to death,

which he obviously had. Alcohol is prohibitively expensive today.

[customerserviceguy]

174. Millions of people have some of his stuff in their homes

and the artsy-fartsies simply cannot stand it that he made a lot of money out of that, crooked or otherwise.

Two fables have stood the test of time, "The Emperor's New Clothes" and "The Fox and the Sour Grapes", and that's because they've described a certain kind of people who have always been with us, and always will.

[Taverner]

179. He was never ethical in his corporate structure....

He did a lot of harm, no doubt

But he doesn't deserve death

I'd love to see him have a stroke of empathy

But it didn't - so it goes

[Union Scribe]

185. I used to be like that, unfortunately.

When I was in high school I embraced all those classics I was reading to the extreme that I'd shun more popular works, because popular means less artistic. Thank God I grew out of that pretentious notion, I still wince when I recall it.

[CTyankee]

189. well, I assume you are well out of high school and you now have the chance to really look

at art that you somehow characterize as just less popular. How it that "pretension" if you never really pursued looking at what is considered art?

The most popular artist in the U.S. today, according to some experts, is Caravaggio, a great artist who was at the forefront of the Baroque movement. Before that, the most popular artist was Leonardo and Michelangelo. So? What is your problem with them?

Are you trying to make some comparison of Kincade with those artists? REALLY?

What exactly are you saying?

[marions ghost]

186. False dichotomy

--wrong to see it as a case of "low art vs high art" -- (re your implication of "artsy fartsy&quot -- Kinkade was happy to use the illusion of artsy fartsy to sell his crap. He depended on that false illusion to get the prices he got. His was NOT a populist art like Norman Rockwell's, not at all. It was a brilliant scam is what it was, based on American ignorance of what original art is (never mind whether you like it or not).

Yes a certain kind of shyster like Kinkade has always been with us...

[customerserviceguy]

223. Most Americans cannot relate to, nor afford "original art"

and they will still find the stuff you ridicule as kitsch to brighten their lives nonetheless. The vast majority of people were not aware of the turf battles he got into with the dealers who marketed his stuff, and other than here, I simply haven't seen an iota of it mentioned in the reports of his death. It doesn't tarnish the stuff they have on their walls.

All of the art world is a cutthroat business, with people seeking to make fabulous profits off of the gullibility of others, Kinkade was just like the rest of them, no better, no worse. He figured out how to make a buttload of money, and 99% of the 'artistes' out there are scratching their collective heads over it.

[marions ghost]

231. I realize that

most Americans cannot afford original art (altho I could argue that if they didn't buy as much trash many of them could).

I do not have a high income and cannot afford original art--so I know what you mean. But I can still look at it in galleries and museums. I have said several times that I have NO problem with reproductions, sold at a price that takes into account their far lower value.

The fact that people were sold reproductions under false pretenses DOES tarnish the Kinkades on their walls.
It does devalue the products. The fact that this has not been mentioned in the media...well, have you noticed that the media protects tycoons at the expense of us peons???

Yes the art world is a business. Art marketing is big business. Whether that makes sense is another topic. But one man's overvalued painting is another man's overvalued antique or vintage car.

All I am saying is--kitsch that is sold to the masses should be priced fairly. I would rather have a Norman Rockwell reproduction anyday than an original Kinkade. There is a difference--Rockwell was an artist and you can find his work in museums. Kinkade was a corrupt businessman and you can find his paintings in yardsales and ebay.

There really is a difference.

[steve2470]

191. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot...ok....this man ? I don't think so nt

[Strelnikov_]

192. I like him for a suicide

http://www.mercurynews.com/los-gatos/ci_20344195/thomas-kinkade-one-nations-most-popular-painters-dies

His family was traveling to Australia on Friday and unavailable for further comment. Further details were expected in the coming days.

Family just left on a long trip. No such thing as coincidence.

Then again, could have just been a bad end to the beginning of an epic bender.

[Doremus]

194. An uncreative shyster.

There was a line of cheap framed prints in the 40s that look almost identical to the "Painter of Light's "masterpieces."

I'm sure it's just coincidental.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

196. I for one would love to know what other random celebrities the OP has gravedancing threads on ice

Chef Paul Prodhomme dead (finally)



Wilford Brimley dead (finally)






Ke$ha dead (finally)



Fozzie Bear dead (finally)

[HangOnKids]

199. What A Load Of Pants

Really dude? Ole Tom's death has you that shaken up?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

222. Not really.

But the utter tackiness of the OP left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Air Marshal8]

198. Art is like wine...without snobbery, 99% of it wouldn't exist.

[TrogL]

201. I loved his art

I'd analyze it to death looking for visual non-sequiturs. He'd stick a cottage on the hairpin end of a logging road or a tiny cabin with two roaring fireplaces

[fascisthunter]

208. goodbye wannabe

[tokenlib]

211. Thank you for this thread--I knew nothing about Kincade except that he painted those pictures...

Although I think "grave dancing" distasteful as the next person--this thread has been helpful. When Steve Jobs died and the cable news channels were bowing in respect and adoration at the passing of a "legend"--I was glad to know about Apple's outsourcing to China and anything else that could provide a balanced rather than idealized picture of the man.

I appreciate learning that the real person of the artist was not so hopeful and comforting as the idealized, enchanted, landscapes he sold so successfully. So thanks for throwing some biographical info out there for those of us who didn't know.

[pfitz59]

214. So you're happy a working father of four young daughters is dead?

What sort of jerk are you? Don't like Kinkade's art, don't buy it. Disparage a man you know nothing about, that's mighty cowardly. Thom was a complicated guy who came from a very poor background. he used a modest amount of skill and a lot of hustle to rise from poverty to fortune. I thought this was the American way? He may have made some bad business decisions, but he sold a lot of simple art which made people feel better. Its a shame hat he's dead. Millions will miss him, and his ART!

[NYC_SKP]

220. One less thief and swindler in the world.

Pawning off prints as originals.

Family or no, he and his ilk are a blight.

I'm glad that he had to pay some of his victims, but wish a full judgement against all his victims could have been had.

Maybe it will....

[highplainsdem]

224. Unrec.

[dionysus]

225. you just made yourself look very, very small with this OP. tiny, even. sad.

[cbdo2007]

232. No worries. I'm sure someone out there will be glad when you're "Dead (finally)" too.

We're all assholes to some extent and piss off a fair amount of people during our lifetimes and I'm sure you're no exception.

Just hope you aren't upset at the way people remember when you're gone.

[LanternWaste]

233. As for his art, much like Boris Vallejo or Frank Frazetta...

As for his art, much like Boris Vallejo or Frank Frazetta, it gratified the lowest common demonstrators of their target demographics... of which, at different periods of my life, I belonged to without apology or stain.

As for the person, I've always subscribed to the notion of separating the art from the artist... if not, I'd be very, very bored.