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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone here have any run-ins with an HOA?
I just posted an article about a veteran that is being told he'll be fined for making furniture, by a Homeowners Association.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025294541
Anyone here ever have any run-ins with an HOA?
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Divernan
(15,480 posts)They tend to have board members who are retired mid-level executives or busybody, never- worked-for-a-living wives thereof, looking to exercise power for the sake of power, creating cliques, making mountains out of molehills, etc. Nothing better to do than prowl the neighborhood, looking for violations (such as all drapes must have off-white lining as viewed from the streets!) The details in some of these HOA contracts is nitpicking to the nth degree. Having heard enough horror stories, I would never move into an area with a HOA.
One newly retired couple I know, who moved to Lakewood Ranch, were so upset by the HOA's dictates that they moved out after only 10 months, without even waiting to sell, which they could ill afford to do. It was partially their own fault - they should have researched the HOA and checked the contract with a lawyer. Their empty house has been on the market for 6 months, even though they've repeatedly dropped the price.
In the Murrysville, PA situation, a clique of 3 (never worked) women on the board determined they wanted to get rid of a 4th woman (highly skilled and experienced professional) whose vote they could not always count on, so they engaged in a slanderous & libelous campaign against her when she was up for re-election. Stupid enough of them to tell lies over the phone, but they actually sent out letters. She won re-election handily, and those 3 are lucky she didn't sue their asses off.
DURHAM D
(32,616 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)wanted.
DURHAM D
(32,616 posts)and both are drive-bys
hunter
(38,339 posts)That was the first and the last time anyone in our family would ever live in such a place.
Our large family was always in trouble with the HOA for one thing or another.
So my parents bought a house in a very rural neighborhood where old cars in the yard, chickens running about, and any sort of creative activity was acceptable. But within a few years the Suburban Nazi Zombies invaded and tore out the surrounding lemon groves, established an HOA, and built McMansions. My parents' house became a little non-HOA island of art and sanity in a growing dead zone of mindless conformity.
In their retirement my parents fled to a tropical wilderness. They drink and bathe in water that falls on their tin roof. They eat locally grown organic food.
My wife and I live in a city that's wild west. Nobody complains about neighbors unless they are making too much noise late Sunday thru Thursday nights, they are shooting one another, they are selling drugs to people who shit, pee, puke, or die wherever they happen to stumble, or people who run indiscreet houses of prostitution. No HOA and the cops don't respond to calls unless someone is shooting someone else, bleeding, on fire, murdered, or blocking traffic.
In our neighborhood you can work on your old car in your driveway, play basketball in the street, or paint your house any color you choose. And people do. Even so it's a nice neighborhood, not anarchy. People paint over graffiti, pick up trash, look out for one another, and are generally pleasant and civilized.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Just as in this story, the HOA was simply the forum for a grievance.
CCRs are a privatized version of zoning restrictions.
Until Shelley v. Kraemer (1948) they were American society's polite means of racial discrimination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelley_v._Kraemer
politicat
(9,808 posts)My mother and her late husband had one, and while they had the busybody who didn't like his radio antenna (for ham; the FCC overrules all HOA so it was allowed), they figured out the strategy -- go to the meetings. Not showing up means not having a voice and not being able to push back.
Knowing that strategy -- and being good at googling -- is the strategy for dealing with HOA Fundies. The fact is that neighbors exist, that people live in communities and written rules prevent some from exercising privilege at the expense of others. County, state and federal law trump HOAs every time.
If you want ducks or turkeys or to have a home automotive repair business, take that into consideration before buying the house and buy appropriately. If you don't want to mow the lawn, or fix your own roof, or maintain your paint, realize that the freedom from those responsibilities comes with responsibilities to the others who have the same desires.
I'd rather deal with quarterly meetings than mow the lawn. Thus, our next house will be in an HOA community that does outdoor maintenance. YMMV and tanstaffl.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)whether u can have chickens- no u can't here
whether u can have a home business-some
high grass-city will cut it for ya if you don't want too. But they aren't cheap.
house not up to standards? city will take you to court. You'll paint it.
junk on the lawn, gutters down, barking dogs, weeds, city will take u to court.
so basically, u have to go to meetings that you don't want to go to in order to be safe. Then you can become one of the busy bodies looking for something about what other people are doing to complain about.
The only thing that I see for the HOA to do is to take care of common areas. Everything else takes a call to the city, and it will be taken care of.
politicat
(9,808 posts)In my specific case, we do not want a lawn. We have allergies and even having a service doesn't eliminate the fact that there are plants that screw with us just outside the door. In my specific area, we have three choices: rent an apartment (with all of the issues that come with apartments, like not having garages, and dealing with a capricious management company, and having NO say in the management of the community); buy into a co-housing community with an HOA that provides common maintenance and low-allergen landscaping, or stay in our current/buy another house with lawn/landscaping and pray that we can eradicate the allergens in the immediate area (since we haven't managed that in 13 years, that's unlikely). To buy an apartment-type condo (which still has an HOA), we would have to move 30 miles. Not an option. The co-housing community offers us the most opportunity to have a say in our common environment, given the options available to us.
In the battle against daily sinus headaches, we are making the decision that offers us the most chance of relief and the highest degree of communal autonomy within a communal setting. I agree that communal living is not for everyone, and I would strongly recommend that anyone who doesn't like the fact that neighbors exist look elsewhere. For us, this is our reality -- we like short commutes and we like our city. The price for staying and not being at war with our own immune systems is a quarterly meeting.
Our soon-to-be community is a) NOT gated or secured in any way (and I'm not sure where you got the notion that all HOAs are gated/secured; most aren't); b) is primarily for the communal maintenance of the common areas and maintains the landscaping and exteriors of the buildings (since they're shared, rules must be established) and c) is governed by the members of the community for the collective good of the community -- small d democracy in action. Yes, it means we have to agree with our neighbor on the color of the exterior paint, and yes, the CCR limits the palette available -- but really, with 64 million shades, getting two or more people to agree on one color is a recipe for disaster. A limit of the choice makes negotiation simpler for everyone involved. I've already read the CCR, though we won't likely move in for a year -- and it doesn't limit the owners' rights to enjoyment of their property any more than living in the city does -- we're already not allowed (via noise regulations) to operate power tools at 2 AM, or to raise livestock, or operate a noxious home business. (However, having dealt with local code enforcement, handling a conflict in-the-community is the least authoritarian and most democratic means of managing a conflict. Local code enforcement is... problematic. It's where the local cops who fail drug tests or have other issues get suspended to. Yeah. This is a bad thing. They may not carry a gun anymore, but they still got the 'tude and the unreformed bad behavior, plus being pissed off because they're on code enforcement.)
Yes, my city does regulate noxious businesses, animals, trash, et cetera. I go to those meetings, too. I am part of my community, not a bystander, and I have both the right and responsibility to participate. I do not see the difference between having a neighborhood HOA meeting, having a city council meeting, or having a precinct meeting. They're all means of ensuring collective harmony through collective communication.
Finally, you insulted me --you don't know me at all, nor how I view dealing with others. Attending a meeting does not make me "a busybody". I could not possibly care less what other people do with houses and time. I'm about the least authoritarian person I know, and every HOA meeting I've attended has been for the major purpose of defusing the busybodies, defending rights to enjoyment, and advocating for the rights of the individual, within the previously agreed to rules of the relationship. Because all relationships require boundaries, and relationships between strangers require written ones. Do I have issues with the "not less than 6 and not more than 18 inches from the curb" types? Oh, you betcha. But those people need pushback, not to be ignored and allowed to continue on their private power trips.
Do I have an issue with the guy in California who isn't allowed to make furniture in his garage? Shrugs. I don't know what his CCR says and what, if anything, he agreed to at purchase, and I don't know what the specific complaint against him is. If he's running noisy tools from 6 AM to 10 PM, using high VOC compounds to finish or otherwise being inconsiderate of others nearby, then yes, his community should talk about it and handle it -- as they apparently have. The guy with the 14 ducks... well... in my city, he wouldn't be allowed to have 14 cats or dogs, either. Therapy animals are one thing, but those numbers are getting high. But assuming HOAs are tools of oppression, and anyone willing or required to participate in one is automatically a busybody and oppressor -- that's a huge and unwarranted jump.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Since it seems that most neighborhoods (at least here) do have HOA, and most neighborhoods here are not gated, I do not have the impression that most HOA neighborhoods are gated.
and I have no clue what you are talking about with the allergens. I wonder if you replied to the right person as the only thing I see that would apply to my post is that I think HOA are busy bodies. Still do, sorry if that insults you personally. Take care of the common areas and don't interfere with peoples lives and you are exempt from my broad paintbrush opinion of HOA's.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Too many fucking rules, for one thing. Why would I buy property in a place where there are so many restrictions on what I can do with it? The neighborhoods where most of these things exist are full of right-wingers who hate government. Why do they accept these abominations?
It seems like they've traded town government bureaucracy for the bureaucracy of small-minded people with far too much time on their hands.
rickford66
(5,530 posts)
Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)When I buy a house, it's my castle to do whatever I want, when I want.
We have enough rules in society, why add the undue burden of more?
Fla Dem
(23,809 posts)Like myself, many people purposely move into an HOA community because there are covenants and restrictions. I don't want to live in a neighborhood with cars up on blocks, 6 cars in the driveways, atrocious colored homes, unkempt yards, etc. I don't understand why people who are adverse to C&R's move in to communities that have them, and then complain about them. My community is not some haughty-totty high priced community. The median price for a home is about $325,000. I paid less about 15 years ago.
As one up poster said, before making a decision to move into a community, ask about C&R's and HOA's. My community has limited C&R's. I don't understand people who move in and then want the HOA to change a rule because they don't like it. What about everyone else who bought into the community because they did want C&R?
IphengeniaBlumgarten
(328 posts)My HOA is laid-back and does beneficial things: street repair, landscape services, maintenance of common areas. Fee is small and people are pleasant.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I am in a gated community and I think it is great. The one thing is you have to call up to one of the gates (we have 3) in order to have company stop by. Additionally the community is kept CLEAN! I mean clean! And for all of this, I only pay 84 dollars a month. Not too bad at all. I have heard folks paying much more than that.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)and honestly don't know what they're getting into. And, of course, some are much worse than others.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)unless u r out in the boons.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)That's unenforceable now, but it's the kind of narrow-minded thinking that goes into some CC&Rs and that why many people avoid communities with extensive CC&Rs and/or HOAs.
Fla Dem
(23,809 posts)agenda in it's CC&R's. I don't doubt there are communities with ridiculous CC&R's. Like I said read the CC&R's before you sign on the dotted line. If you don't, then don't complain after you move in.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and there are still legal and equally reprehensible CCRs such as anti-gay stipulations as evidenced by other posts on this thread.
It's amazing the breadth and depth of things regulated by some HOAs. It's like 50 Shades of NIMBYism.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)work together against crime, I think most HOA are just busybodies. Most city laws cover most of what HOA claim to be about, so I don't think they are needed. I think they just like the idea of controlling others more than anything. I hate them actually. They have way too much power to fuck with people over minor shit and they get away with it. I think of them as the neighborhood republicans. Get out of my vagina and stay off my lawn, fuckers.
DURHAM D
(32,616 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)they spread lies at their little meetings which caused my son to be harassed at school to the point that he eventually dropped out. One of the members came and told me what they had done.
It's not worth having your street plowed to endure their bullshit. The snow removal was about the only thing I saw that they actually did besides busy body and coffee clutch.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
Archae
(46,362 posts)Dictating, changing rules without notification, having neighbors go against neighbor as informants, and arbitrary seizure of properties.
I have read of all of the above, over the years.
The HOA in that story about the veteran making furniture wouldn't comment for the story, and his neighbors didn't complain.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Must be millions dead at the hands of those evil HOAs.
Comparing people to Nazis is beyond offensive.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)can refer to a Soup Nazi, then we can refer to HOA and condo association assholes as Nazis, too.
peabody
(445 posts)of our HOA rules: wrong color curtains, garage door got too dirty, and they didn't like the concrete we paved between the driveway and our yard. All in all, we never got fined and I like living here. It's a good, peaceful community, and plus, the HOA fees are low ($91/month). It's not for everyone but I for one am glad I live under the HOA since I don't have to deal with noisy neighbors, junky cars all over driveways, or dogs barking into the late hours of the night.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)too many junky cars, dogs barking and noisy neighbors are all covered by local laws. No need to pay extra for it.
peabody
(445 posts)How much work does it take to get an uncooperative neighbor to shut their dog up? You've have to call the cops, or maybe go to court. No thanks. I would rather let the heavy hand of the HOA deal with them. Good point though.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)and you won't need to go. Heavy hand of HOA is right though. In yur business like a republican in a women's health decisions. lol A place neither of them has any actual business in.
peabody
(445 posts)We chose to live under the rules of the HOA and we don't impose those choices on others. If people don't like the rules of the HOA they're absolutely free to live elsewhere. Being dramatic doesn't make your point.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)sorry if you think it is overly dramatic. Try finding a home in a decent area of the city that does not have HOA. I tried. So in a way, it is a forced thing on those of us who don't want to be up in our neighbors business on shit that isn't our business.
The reason they probably equated it to Nazi's is not a comparison of causing death like someone stated on that thread but a forced compliance society that some of us will never live by. ANd yes, the absence of homes without these little cliques does force some of us to buy there.
They need to keep the HOA concerned with common areas. Areas that are not common are not their damned business. There are laws that govern everything that they say they are just trying to control.
peabody
(445 posts)a place with no HOA. And it's not a forced compliance. Like I said: don't like it, don't live there; it's as simple as that. And some of us don't mind having rules applied to more than common areas.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It's been many years ago since I bought the home, but could not find any homes in the area that were not part of a HOA. Now maybe if I looked on the other side of town that I didn't want to live in, there were some, but I couldn't find any on the side of town and school district that I needed to be in at that time.
REP
(21,691 posts)They don't care about my yard, other than maintaining a defensible fire line (and that's also regulated by the Fire Department; I have no violations). It maintains our roads, which are all private; drainage; the community center, community pool, etc. No one cares if I have chickens or if my lawn is green or anything like that. We are zoned for chickens and we're in a severe drought, so not having a grass lawn is a plus.
Historic NY
(37,457 posts)in a residential neighborhood. We have zoning where I live and its not a HOA and you'd never be permitted to do it...we have a few grandfathered places but mostly only a home office.
catrose
(5,075 posts)When I had fibromyalgia and couldn't pick up a piece of paper without pain, I got notices about not mowing my lawn enough. During droughts, when water use was (and should be) restricted, I got notices about a brown lawn. So it's the boons for me with no HOAs.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)They made it very clear that if I didn't like them it was really not the place for me. I actually liked the rules. The rules were reasonable and fair. Things like cut the grass, keep the shrubs reasonably cut, dock your boat and/or use the lifts, no boats in yards or driveways, paint your house a reasonable color, where and when to place the garbage for pickup, no unreasonable noise, etc. The HOA also maintains some of the common areas under the direction of the county. Everyone here seems to get along well and the HOA is not in your face. I feel lucky. I do know some people have sometimes had horrible experiences with other HOAs and I can certainly understand their frustration.
One HOA in the vicinity made a rule that no two people of the same sex could live in a condo unless related or married. That, created such an outrage that it went national. They said some bullshit that it was for the moral character of the condos. Like WTF, like really really WTF. I checked into the parent company and it was some RW christian outfit. Fortunately, the people affected in that development would not tolerate the bullshit, and after it went national, the condo association rescinded the order.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Rules according to the whims of the board members but they try anyhow. Our deed restrictions allow us to park a boat or trailer in our back yards but one of the board members did not like double gates and she only wanted the gates 54 inches wide in which a boat would not fit. The lawyer letters started and I told them when they could get enough votes together (95%) then come back to talk to me. Also found out from the county attorney any deed restriction could not be enforced after four years. They are hard headed and hard nosed, just have to use the deed restrictions on them.
Bettie
(16,134 posts)Oooh, you can choose one of three shades of beige for your house.
You can have one of four types of approved shrubs, which must be planted in precisely such and so arrangement and trimmed to precisely the height some doofus thought was right.
You'll find busybodies out with a ruler measuring your lawn because you didn't have time during the week and needed to wait to mow until the weekend and now it's 1/8th of an inch too long.
No play areas for your kids, no toys in the back yard, much less the front yard.
No kids riding their bikes on the sidewalk.
No cars parked outside of the garage. Ever. Under any circumstances, if you have company over night, they need to park outside of the neighborhood (often several miles away).
All of these and more were rules for my mother's HOA in Florida. When she built her house, there wasn't an HOA, but it came in soon after and she was forced to join or sell her home.
But, it did do what the people in the HOA wanted. Families sold their homes (my brothers were still at home, but were older teens) and moved out and no one with kids could move in after that and people like-minded to the HOA people moved in (older, nasty dispositions, bickering over every little thing).
Her one friend in the neighborhood held on the longest and moved simply because he was tired of the lady who measured his lawn every single morning and reported him every other day because he had not mowed yet.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Mine is strict, but I really like your Mother's. Putting cars in the garage should be mandatory. It does make for a better looking neighborhood. Ours does not insist on it, but a good many do.
Bettie
(16,134 posts)So, you would be OK with never having visitors because their cars aren't allowed to park near your home?
When we went to visit, we had to park in a mall parking lot fifteen minutes away and have her come to get us, since even a car parked at her house for ten minutes was a violation, unless it was in the garage.
I don't get why people are so weird and fussy about everything.
I like the diversity and color of a thriving neighborhood of people who aren't all expected to be exactly the same. I like my bright blue Victorian next to the yellow house built in the '30's and the little '50's bungalow on the other side (not sure what color it's going to be they're priming right now). They aren't all exactly the same, but, there's no one out measuring the grass or complaining that our cars aren't new enough. (That was another complaint she got from the HOA...that my brother's car was 'too old' and they didn't like him driving it in the neighborhood, even though he parked it in the garage.)
I don't understand that level of absolute conformity.
But, I will never live in an area that demands it, if it makes you happy to be exactly like all of your neighbors, then go for it.
To me a lot of the point and pleasure of having your own house is having your own house
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)I bought my little girl a plastic picnic table when she was 4. Was warned by the HOA to remove if from my yard. Dared them to make me. Matter was dropped.
Painted my house cape cod blue after approval from HOA. After it was done, received complaints from the HOA that it violated a covenant rule of only painting with 'colonial colors.' When I pointed out 'colonial colors' didn't mean just white or tan, the matter was begrudgingly dropped.
Have gotten letters warning about political signs in the yard. I've politely ignored them.
Right now there's a battle in the subdivision of blue state/ red state proportions over the constant raising of dues and one-time assessments for landscaping and tennis court 'improvements' appease the tennis players. Some board members have 'subdivision envy' and constantly compare us to another neighborhood down the road. Half the board has this grand plan to make us all have matching garbage cans and mailboxes.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Kinda nice for the mail person. They are wooden and really nice looking. I think you will enjoy them once they are implemented. My HOA does not have same mailboxes so you have all sort of variety and looks like crap quite frankly. The garbage cans are all the same though.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Not many rules, and those we have are simple.
No lot under 5 acres
No home built closer than 50yds from the road
Trailers are allowed for a time of no more than two years
All fences facing the road shall be kept in good repair
There are others, all plainly written and easy to obey.
Angus86
(27 posts)My parents' HOA tried to fine them for putting up a new wood fence.
The old fence got blown over and destroyed during Hurricane Ike, so naturally they put up a brand new fence. A few months later they got a fine in the mail for putting up a fence without HOA approval. Apparently the HOA inspector noticed that the brand new fence didn't match the old and weathered appearance of the neighbors fences and decided that this insubordination could not go unpunished.
Thankfully the HOA rules included a stipulation for replacing things like damaged fences, but there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)It contains a full range of good and bad experiences, as well as highlighting that one size does NOT fit all when it comes to how many restrictions people are comfortable with when it comes to one's housing options and the trade-offs one is willing to make regarding restrictions on life styles, landscaping,etc.
I'd also like to point out that all of us who have or will face the choice of owning a home with or without a HOA should appreciate that we have the means to buy/own a home in a world where so many have lost their homes because of the housing bubble, unemployment, uninsured medical costs, etc., or where they have never been able to accumulate enough capital to purchase even a modest home - and then there are all the homeless who sleep in shelters or on the streets, families living in their cars, etc., and that's just in the US.
Yesterday's photos of whole city blocks of bombed out rubble where thousands of homes have been destroyed are, frankly, haunting my dreams. And I know that to be the case in other currently war-torn countries.
To all of us who are fortunate enough to own houses, condos, apartments, etc., let us be grateful that we have our own homes, under whatever local ordinances or HOAs, filled with our belongings, family members, memories and mementos.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)have more restrictive rules than most HOAs.
And... they don't complain at the quarterly meetings or issue warnings. They just impose hefty fines imposed by corrupt local political cronies, code enforcement flunkies and village cops that have nothing else to do but raise revenue.
I might consider living in an HOA community that had fewer restrictions, but I would NEVER live in an incorporated village.
BTW: I was doing some chores for my 92 year old father last week. It was Monday and his trash gets picked on Tuesday so I put out his trash cans at about 1PM and went home. At 2PM he received a $300 ticket. Seems that NYC has a rule that prohibits putting cans at the curb before 3PM the day before pickup day.
No exceptions for disabled seniors who can't drag garbage cans themselves.
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)I live in a townhouse. Without asking or even telling me, my connected neighbor painted a wall that is structurally and legally shared between us, but aesthetically (according to the HOA) mine. It's the wrong color. I didn't even notice that she had it painted. They sent a letter telling me to get it fixed. I let it go. They sent another letter 4 years later. I let it go. They put a fucking lien on my house because they don't like the color of one wall. I told them the neighbor had had it painted and if we're both equally responsible for that wall she should get it fixed. They threw some crap at me about (a) joint and several liability, which means they can distribute liability for an violation any way they see fit and (b) how much they really, really value and respect my feelings and opinions. I thought if (b) was true they could explain to me how they distributed all the liability to me rather than the guilty party. But they didn't.
I tried to get it fixed, but my usually-reliable contractor messed up. It's been a comedy of errors. They painted it just before a thunderstorm. I told them half the paint had washed away and they said they'd get their guy to fix it. A different painter came and asked me for the leftover paint. How should I know? No one had talked to me about it. Finally they found the paint (in their truck) and now i need them to finish the job before the deadline the HOA has given me before the "next step," whatever that is. Maybe they'll try to take my house. Over a fucking miscolored wall.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)the smallest unit of goverment you can find in the USA, and practically no one runs for election in it, so the smallest-minded people can get 'elected' practically by default, just so they can make life hell for everybody else who has a freaking life.
That's a homeowners and/or a condo owners association in a nutshell.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)from the 8th grade class president to the hoa chairman to the member of the village council to the Secretary General of the UN... aspires to be a dictator.
The only thing that keeps them in check is the constant fear of torches and pitchforks.
