Think you can make it on minimum wage?

[davidthegnome]

So, out of frustration with my employers today, I did some math to determine whether someone who earns the minimum wage at 40 hours per week can survive independently - just one person. The math I used was VERY conservative, the only possibly un-necessary expense added on was for cell phone service of roughly 35 dollars per month. Here's the numbers I came up with - I am no economist, or accountant, they may be slightly off, but I'm fairly certain they hit near the mark. (Note: Maine's minimum wage is 7.50 per hour)

Minimum wage: 7.50
At 40 hours a week, total monthly income (after state taxes) average of 1115 dollars.
Taxes are (roughly) at .53 for each hour worked. After a Federal tax of 10% the rough average comes to 1004 per month.

Rent: 400 dollars (very conservatively)
Heating Oil: 200 dollars (guesstimate of the average of a year of living with Maine's harsh winters)
Electricity: 100 dollars
Debt/Student loans/Credit card/whatever: 100 dollars (No one I know is free of these)
Car Payments (with insurance/used, older vehicle): 200 dollars
Groceries: 200 dollars (I hope you like Ramen and spaghettios)
Gas: 60 dollars (Living close to work)
Health Insurance: 10 dollars
Cell Phone: 35 dollars
Total of 1305 and counting....
Note: I have not added several other expenses yet (such as water), but have already pretty much made my point
********************************************

Already, with some very basic math, estimating at a very conservative living... 1,305 per month out of a total monthly income of roughly 1,004. This is for one individual, living alone. Without the aid of family, friends, or state or federal services... we are already well past the means of the minimum wage, full time employee. So the reality is that they will have to work more than this to survive independently. Possibly at 60 hours per week (ten hour shifts, Monday through Saturday) there could be a reasonable expectation of some kind of survival.

My own income totals out around 1131 per month (roughly). This is at 8 dollars an hour.

My manager at my place of work the other night went on a rant about how wicked unions are. Told me that they enable people to be lazy, that their exorbitant wages is why so many of our good manufacturing jobs were shipped over seas. People always have their hands out, they are lazy, selfish, greedy, according to her. She loves helping out with federal withholding forms because of this. Raises are for "absolutely exceptional service only". Or, this little gem, "If you want a raise, you need to stop making mistakes."

Where I work, there is no holiday pay. There are no mandatory breaks either through the employer, or mandated by state labor laws, not for my department at a hotel (front desk). Nor for the bartender. Nor for any employee working in a department with less than three people presently at work. This includes bathroom breaks, breaks for meals or to stretch your legs, whatever. Stay in your cage. You may possibly get a break, if there is someone around who can fill your position, but only for a couple minutes.

Now... I live with my parents, so I live reasonably well compared to most of my fellow employees. Even so, my own expenses are roughly 1100 dollars per month. This includes gas, car payments, food, the small amount I pay my parents for rent and such. If I have car issues, health issues, sudden expenses for any reason... I end up needing help.

Does anyone at all think they can survive on 7.50 an hour? Living independently, without any children, without any dependents, just yourself. If not, if this cannot be done, then, ladies and gentlemen, it's time to grab our pitch forks and torches. It's time to get up and surround our state and federal government buildings to demand action. It's time to form unions, it's time to fight for our very survival. The current state of affairs continues only because we permit it to.

I'm well past angry and tired. Damnit, where's my pitchfork.

[Marrah_G]

1. And these days most low paying jobs are only part time.

[yeoman6987]

3. My mortgage alone is 1800 a month

Property taxes are 7200 a year so no way can I live on minimum wage.

[YarnAddict]

2. It would suck to live on minimum wage

But--you would be eligible for:

EITC
Food Stamps
food pantries
probably help with heat
etc.

so, your numbers are probably not realistic.

[davidthegnome]

4. I'm not sure that's accurate.

Not for one person living independently. It varies by state, but you raise an interesting point. Full time work, at minimum wage... in the state of Maine, what benefits do you qualify for? I'll have to do some research on that one and figure out the eligibility requirements by income. Also - consider that the federal minimum wage is even lower. 7.25.

These numbers though - are realistic for someone who has no intention of applying for state or federal assistance, which, in my own neck of the woods, is a whole lot of people. It's something that's frowned upon in my conservative community. I can't even count the rants I've heard about "lazy idiots who live off OUR tax dollars, Grr..."

Perhaps someone more educated than me about these matters can chime in. I can already think of several people who lost their benefits when they became employed - people who earn no more than I do.

[YarnAddict]

9. I don't know about the benefits in Maine

but in most places, you don't need to have children to qualify for Food Stamps, or EITC, and I don't believe there are any requirements for most food patries.

Your particular job has a few "benefits," that you may not realize you have. I had a friend many years ago, who was starting over after a divorce. At the time she had a daughter in college, and three younger sons. She got a job as a night desk clerk at a hotel, which offered her lots of time to study, so she was able to get job training as a sign language interpreter, and went on to work in education and become independent.

It's a unique situation, where you can earn $$ while studying, and I would heartily encourage you to do so. There are still fields that are VERY lucrative, and will enable you to move ahead.

Good luck to you!

[davidthegnome]

13. I appreciate the well wishes.

Personally, I can't do that. The vast majority of the time I am far too busy to study. My shifts are 3 to 11, and the tasks include (but are not limited to): Answering phones, counting banks, making deposits, housekeeping (cleaning up vomit is not fun), surveillance and security, making reservations, reservation check in, multiple counts of the cash register and the safe. Keeping coffee pots and ice water containers full, bringing pillows, cots, towels and such to hotel guests, managing a fitness center, pool and hot tub. Also, occasionally, minor maintenance such as plunging toilets, making sure doors are working properly, etc.

I have way too much to do on any given shift for any significant amount of study time, though I do have some time at home that I use to study. Writing is where I hope to eventually make my career, and earn my living.

This isn't so much about my own personal situation though, as it is about the many people in this Country who are barely getting by, or not getting by at all. I'm convinced that anyone who isn't angry isn't paying attention.

[TheKentuckian]

20. This person wouldn't be eligible for SNAP, they make too much money

Eligibility for benefits is based off the far too low and unsurvivable poverty level set significantly below full time at minimum wage

I used the following calculator to check http://www.snap-step1.usda.gov/fns/

My hypothetical person worked 40 hours a week at $7.50, I gave them a car worth $1,000.00 paid in full and $350.00 including checking, savings, and cash on hand. I plugged in the $400.00 for rent (though I guess this to be unrealistic) and they had to pay heat and air.

No dice. This person would also make too much for the Medicaid expansion. I doubt they would be eligible for Section 8 and if they did the waiting lists are 6 months to years.

You may not need to have children to be eligible for help but you need to be excruciatingly and hopelessly poor to the tune of like 11k a year except for the Medicaid expansion and full time at minimum wage is even too much for that.

Our safety net is an embarrassing travesty.

[questionseverything]

27. i have a real life friend making $700/month in illinois

200/month rent

that calculator shows they should get 70/month in fs but i know she was just kicked off them

u are so right about our safety net

[hfojvt]

37. for a childless person making $15,000 a year

the EIC is zero. Now if they had one kid at the same income, then they'd get $3,250 but they'd have much more than that in extra expenses.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Why would you not apply for state or federal assistance?

Survival trumps disapproval by the neighbors.

The minimum wage worker in your example should be eligible for (at least) food assistance and a cellphone.

In my area they'd also be eligible for heating assistance.

[davidthegnome]

19. Stupid, stubborn pride.

It's not just disapproval of neighbors, but also the condemnation by family, by friends, the ranting conservatives and the rich idiots. I know many people who will not apply for the ACA, who will not apply for food stamps, or medicaid, or heating or cell phone assistance. They still believe in the so called American dream. That, with enough hard work and dedication, you can truly survive and even thrive in independence. This may be true for some.

This may be possible, with enough practical skills, your own land and/or home and the right tools. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of us do not have the skills our ancestors had. Cultivating fields is not something done well without education or experience, the same is true of any kind of mechanical work, carpentry, plumbing and so on. This is why I have always believed in the value of apprenticeships, or of simply teaching our children more practical skills both at home and at work.

Neither of my parents have most of those practical skills - I don't either. My Grandparents did, but they were generally too busy working and raising children and paying bills and fighting wars to pass on the greater depth of their knowledge and experience.

Upward mobility is still possible, it has to be - but it's extremely difficult without resources, skills, or other people to help out. I believe deeply in the value of literary education and critical thinking skills, but I also think that, given the state of our union... the teaching of practical skills must be implemented into our society at large. Otherwise, we just keep on sinking.

[TheKentuckian]

29. Waste of time, they aren't eligible for the food stamps, I don't know about the lifeline phone.

The system is not as generous as some like to make out.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. In Washington, food assistance (and a cellphone and a landline discount)

... are eligible to anyone making 150% of FPL, or $1945 for a one person household.

It may not be "generous" but when you're making $75 a day, $30 or $40 is meaningful help.

[TheKentuckian]

34. I ran the calculator for Maine, they get squat.

[tridim]

5. My wacked out Republican coworker thinks you can easily survive on minimum wage...

While supporting 2 kids, AND go to college in your spare time in order to get a better job. He even claims he did it himself ten years ago. His bootstraps must be very impressive!!!!11

Yes, he was serious. I just laughed and laughed. DERP.

I have never met a Republican who had the first clue what poverty is in reality. They bought the "welfare queen" line and will stick with it until the day they die.

[jambo101]

6. Minimum wage

You can probably survive on Minimum wage but not what i'd call living.
I cant see supporting a family on something around $8 per hour. It would be tough for sure.

[NaturalHigh]

7. "Think you can make it on minimum wage?"

Simple answer: no.

[PasadenaTrudy]

8. Nope.

Studio apts are around $1K a month here. No way you could live on your own.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Like anything, it depends on preparation.

If I were placed in downtown Portland, ME with only the clothes on my back, it'd take a long time and a lot of work to acquire the tools to live decently on that income and ideally to grow beyond it.

But by the second year, or with the resources I have at my disposal today, yes.

Based on my current household
House payment $435
Food $150
Electricity $90
Gas $200
Credit cards $0
Car payments $0
Cellphone $0
Land line + internet $45
Insurance $100
Garbage service: $30
taxes: $375
total: $1425

Full time income at Washington's minimum wage: $1615 + $35 basic food assistance.

I'm fully aware that the factors that enable me to do this aren't available to everyone: good health, a home, no addictions, a reliable car and the tools and skills and abilities to fix things myself and to avoid being exploited by payday lenders and rent-to-own furniture companies.

[davidthegnome]

15. Is that income before or after taxes?

Either way, with even one dependent... it could be done, but not without a great many sacrifices and a great deal of hard work. Personally, I don't mind working hard and/or making sacrifices to get to where I want to be - but the circumstances of our current labor market and economy are destroying lives, crushing hopes and dreams, and leaving the vast, overwhelming majority of us at the mercy of payday lenders, rent-to-own companies, used vehicles and so on.

The value of a diploma, or even a college degree, is not what it once was either. Union jobs are becoming fewer and harder to get.

This working class hero thing, maybe it can be done by an educated person with the tools and skills you have, but most of us don't have those things. If only we taught all of this stuff in public schools. It's something that needs to start early on. Practical skills are definitely worth their weight in gold.

I don't know what the true solution is - but a good start would be raising the minimum wage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Your scenario was predicated on no dependents.

I estimated my current state, federal and local taxes as $375 - roughly 20% of my gross wages.

I acquired those skills mostly through necessity. I learned to work on my car in my apartment's parking lot because a $4/hour wage was not enough to be able to afford hire it out, I couldn't afford a second car so *this* car was necessary to get me to work the following morning.

[closeupready]

11. I could survive on minimum wage. If I held four such jobs.

[NCTraveler]

12. I could survive on minimum wage.

I could not thrive on minimum wage.

[grasswire]

16. David...

...last night I watched a brand new TV series called Hotel Hell. It is a weekly expose; of a mis-run hotel. Gordon Ramsay goes in to fix it. I immediately thought of you. The old hotel featured was owned by a mean, rich alcoholic. Treated his employees badly, paid them poorly, ran the hotel into the ground....etc. etc. etc. He had the audacity to tell Gordon Ramsay that the employees were cheating him on hours. Crazy stuff.

Wouldn't it be cool if Ramsay approached your boss for a featured show?

[Kaleva]

17. I live on $1137 a month from SSDI

Add $15 EBT for a total of $1152

monthly budget

$50.00 water
$45.00 home insurance
$50.00 property taxes (just under $600.00 for a year)
$35.00 gas for heat, hot water and cooking (averaged over a year)
$30.00 electricity
$25.00 garbage pickup
$50.00 medications
$60.00 moped payment
$60.00 land line phone and internet
$8.00 Netflix
$135.00 food
$50.00 pet food and cat litter
$36.00 burial insurance
$50.00 payment on hospital bill
$50.00 payment to a hardware store account

$734.00 total

Leaving me with $418 a month for clothing, gas for the moped, miscellaneous, home repairs and improvements.

The above is a ball park budget for when I was living alone at my home after my divorce. My ex and I are back together and I'm living in the big house again. If for some reason, I were to go back to the small house, the above figures would be my monthly budget.

When I was living alone, stretching out the food dollar was a challenge. I only bought what was on sale or heavily discounted for quick sale and combined that with coupons where possible. I didn't buy hamburger as that is too expensive and my meat was limited to chicken and tuna and only then when that was on sale. I ate a lot of beans, rice, homemade sauerkraut and potatoes! I didn't buy milk either and had dried milk which I made only enough off for cooking.

[TheKentuckian]

21. Throw rent in and just barely making it becomes not gonna make it real quick.

This person would also likely need more transportation costs in their budget having to go to and from work daily.

Also keep in mind that single without dependents means they are going to net pay taxes and be required to tithe something to the insurance cartel.

[Reter]

18. Take car payments out, and raise cell phone bills

No one should have a car payment on minimum wage, that's just stupid. I make triple that and don't want another payment, so I bought my 2003 used. I pay $100 a month for insurance.

A $35 cell phone bill sounds amazing, but most people don't want a flip phone.

[DesMoinesDem]

23. My cell phone service is $10 a month. The smart phone I use was $50.

$35 sounds very high to me.

[Reter]

24. I'd hump someone's leg to pay that :)

I do $80. Where in that world can you find a deal for $10? Unlimited texts? $10 after taxes and all that?

[DesMoinesDem]

26. Airvoice wireless. Its not unlimited, but I don't use my phone that much.

2 cent texts, 4 cents per minute, cheap data. Remaining money caries over and you can add $10 whenever you want. It is a great plan for someone making minimum wage or for anyone that doesn't use their phone that much.

[TheKentuckian]

22. My answer is no. I don't see how you'd finagle it long term.

[grasswire]

25. David, here's a link to that Hotel Hell episode

http://www.fox.com/hotel-hell/

[RebelOne]

28. I am on Social Security and after the Medicare premium,

I collect $1400 a month. That averages $8.75 an hour. Luckily, my expenses are low. I live in a mobile home that I own and pay a monthly lot rent of $395, and that includes water and garbage pickup. My only big monthly expense is for Comcast which includes my Internet, phone and cable. My electric bill never runs over $100 other than in the winter.

My only two vices are cigarettes and wine. If I could get rid of those sins, I would have a lot more money, but it's not going to happen. I will die happy though, with a cigarette in one hand and a glass of wine in the other.

[TheKentuckian]

30. Well, that constitutes a $1.25 an hour raise plus makes their income tax free, and they still

have health insurance premiums that you took out before you started calculating anything.

To bring home $1,400.00 the gross income would have to be much higher, maybe 13 an hour or so seems about right from when I made that.

[surrealAmerican]

31. Your manager sounds like a real piece of work.

I guess her exorbitant pay is making her lazy and greedy.

[hfojvt]

35. I know I could

because I have

My income for 2007 was $11,202, the same as $12,877 today
Income for 2008 was $12,604, the same as $13,952.78

For one thing, my latest electric bill, for one of the hotter months of summer, was $60.81. I have never lived in Maine, but Wisconsin is pretty cold too, and I cannot see spending $2,000 a year for heat.

Other than a car loan I paid off quickly and a mortgage that I also paid off quickly, I have never had any debt.

Being in small towns, I lived for many years without owning a car. I bought one in 2009, but still consider it to be a luxury item. Luckily I got a fairly reliable one. When I had house payments, my house payments on a 3 bedroom house were only $300 a month, taxes included.

So I know that it can be done, and don't think anything gets solved with pitchforks.

And if you think it is tough to live on minimum wage today, imagine how it was in 2006 when the minimum wage was only $5.15 an hour (equal to $6.09 today).

[davidthegnome]

38. I don't have to imagine it - I lived it.

In 2006 I earned the minimum wage, washing dishes for Restaurants. That's pretty much what I did until the census rolled around in 2010, which, at 13.25 an hour plus .55 per mile, was a pretty awesome job for someone used to earning minimum wage. Even before 2006, I worked and lived both in Maine, and in South Dakota, with a fiance and two children. One was hers, one was ours. I made some unwise decisions when I was younger. I also had several jobs which paid five dollars an hour, under the table. I had some 80-100 hour weeks that I'm still amazed didn't kill me.

It depends on your individual situation, of course. Where I lived when I started out was a very small town, it has one grocery store that is also a gas station, and one restaurant. The school closed years ago and now serves as the town office.

The nearest town of any size (or with any jobs) is roughly 28 miles away. For me, a car is not a luxury item - there is also no public transportation available where I live. There are plenty of people who cannot get by without a car. A house payment on a 3 bedroom house of 300 per month... is not the same as renting a two bedroom apartment at 400-500 + utilities. Buying a home requires reasonable credit, or that the owner be willing to work with you financially. It also almost always requires a significant down-payment.

I do congratulate you on your fiscal responsibility and wise spending practices. You managed to overcome the odds and survive on shitty pay. Unfortunately, many people cannot do that - not on their own. There are many reasons why this is the case.

Also, when I reference pitchforks, I am not suggesting that we literally pick up pitch forks for the purpose of violence. I apologize for not being more specific about that, I assumed my point would be understood, which was to express anger and frustration - a desire for activism and change. It was not an attempt to incite violence.

It IS tough to live on minimum wage today. It was tough in 2006, and it's tough now. The primary reason it's so damn tough is because we have a small minority of people who are violently opposed to the upward mobility of the working class.

So you made it on minimum wage, that's awesome for you. It still sucks, it's still inhumane, well below what it should be. Personally, I'd rather work for change so that some day my children won't have to do what I did for compensation equally as poor.

[oberliner]

36. If you take "rent" out of the equation, it seems do-able

Here's to living with your parents!