The State of Palestine has no right to exist

[Max power]

If it did have the right to exist , then it would exist

Israel will not allow it

The USA waged war and killed thousands to earn the right to exist

And here we are

[H2O Man]

1. oh

[StevieM]

4. Hey, I see you recently passed 50,000 posts. Congratulations!! (eom)

[H2O Man]

6. Thanks

[louis-t]

2. Yeah, I get it, 'spoils of war' and

all that shit.

[el_bryanto]

3. You have no right to your car

If you had a right to it you'd stop me from taking it from you. But you didn't. And now I'm driving around in my car that you erroneously thought was your car.

((of course I didn't take your car)).

Bryant

[econoclast]

8. Lets make this example a bit more accurate

You and your friends have tried to run down your neighbor and her family on three separate occasions. Only succeeded in wrecking your car. And you admit you will keep trying to run your neighbors over.

At what point should you lose your car?

[H2O Man]

10. standard or automatic?

[JustAnotherGen]

57. I was going to say

Ferrari or McLaren . . .

[el_bryanto]

15. Well - did my neighbors kick me out of my house, make me live in a doghouse in the back yard

keep all my good stuff for themselves, restrict my right to move around, and, in general take all my freedoms? If so, than I might think about trying to drive my neighbors off.

And in this metaphor - they've already lost their land. They've lost their freedom. How much more do you think the Palestinian people should lose?

Bryant

[econoclast]

31. Actually you have it backwards

In the original 1948 war the Arabs thought thats what THEY would do TO Israel. Didn't work out that way. Then Jordan annexed the West Bank and Egypt annexed Gaza.

[el_bryanto]

38. This is part of your nonsensical bias by the way

Holding Palestinians responsible simply be cause they are Arabs. But maybe to you all Arabs look the same.

Bryant

[Maedhros]

44. Despite disingenous Israeli propaganda, the fact remains that Israel was granted certain

lands and Palestine was granted certain lands in 1947. Israel has taken most of the lands granted to Palestine.

No amount of pro-Likud mewling will make this fact go away.

[malaise]

49. No amount of pro-Likud mewling will make this fact go away

That simple

[BillZBubb]

51. Exactly!

Someday the Israeli apologists will give up their distortions. But I won't hold my breath on it.

[Chan790]

18. Never.

The state has no right to dispossess you of your property for this type of crime.

Your driver's license OTOH would have been revoked after the first incident.

[laundry_queen]

20. You forgot about the part where your neighbor

took your house and killed your kids. All you have left is the car.

There. NOW it's accurate.

[econoclast]

23. Actually...No

There never was a "Palestine". Ever.

That portion of the world was part of one empire or another for 2000 years. Egypt Rome Byzantium Moslem. Most recently it was part of the Ottoman Empire and after WWI passed to the British as a Protectorate. The Brits re-established some of the old nation states Egypt. Syria etc. and created others out of whole cloth ...Iran, Iraq etc.

Lastly was the Jerusalem surroundings. Which was to become 2 States. Palestine and Israel. But the Palestinians gambled on the whole thing and LOST. Sad. But nobody to blame but themselves.

1). Under the Ottoman Empire it was illegal to sell land to Jews. Small wonder then that Jews only owned a small % of the land prior to 1947

2). Under the UN Partition all Palestinians had to do was sit down, shut up, and play nice and they would have had a legal, recognized State of their very own. But no. They wanted not half a loaf but the whole thing. In 1948, the Arab League attacked the nascent Israel on behalf of the Palestinians promising to destroy it completely. The Palestinians could have the whole loaf!!! But it didn't work out that way. The Arabs lost.

3). After the 1948/49 war. Jordanian forces were on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. What we call the West Bank. Egyptian forces were also on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. The Gaza Strip. Egypt and Jordan could have granted those landsto the Palestinians to become a state of Palestine. But no. Egypt and Jordan annexed those lands. They said, in effect ... Palestine? Never heard of it. This is now part of Jordan. This is now part of Egypt.

4). After the 1967 war when Arab countries again tried to wipe Israel off the map but instead got their asses kicked, Israeli forces controlled the West Bank and Gaza Strip .... Remember these lands were now part of Jordan and Egypt - not Palestine - and had been for almost 20 years.

5). Same in 1972 when for a third time an attempt was made to wipe Israel iff the map.

Thats accurate.

[el_bryanto]

26. I think you used accurate when you meant biased and nonsensical. nt

[daleanime]

29. +1

[econoclast]

34. No. Accurate is quite right

[el_bryanto]

35. You present one biased side of the story

And you provide it with so little context and understanding as to be nonsense.

Bryant

[econoclast]

36. Actually pretty unbiased

I think I presented the facts as best I without writing a magazine article. They are accurate. You can look them up.

[Maedhros]

45. Nah, you're a propagandist.

Best not to waste time on your nonsense.

/ignore.

[H2O Man]

40. You are being kind.

[laundry_queen]

27. You managed to post all of that awfully quick

Like you copy pasted at warp speed because you had it all ready and waiting. Good for you.

Your accuracy meter needs tuning. Or replacing. But keep up the copy paste as if it makes for a good argument. Like we haven't heard these bs talking points before.

[econoclast]

33. If you think its bs

You need to read more history and less histrionics.

[laundry_queen]

39. You cherry pick points to bolster your argument

those points may be true, but to leave out the points that are also true but don't support your argument makes for a BS argument. Has nothing to do with history. Has to do with how you are constructing your argument. I could also make some true points about how pioneers in the US who were settling in American Indian territories were attacked, scalped, killed etc and that might all be true, but if I leave out the part where those pioneers stole their land, gave them smallpox infested blankets and tried to also kill them, then my argument would be BS talking points - exactly how yours was.

[econoclast]

43. Lets see

I mentioned brief history of pre-british protectorate
UN Partition
3 Wars
Cherry picking????? Looks like hitting the Factual Highlights to me

[laundry_queen]

50. You only chose one side of the story. That is cherry picking. nt

[seveneyes]

28. Very accurate and well put.

Some people just can let it sink in.

[randys1]

56. This line JUMPED out at me as hubris like I havent seen in a while

But the Palestinians gambled on the whole thing and LOST. Sad. But nobody to blame but themselves.

[KamaAina]

5. So, to take one example, Timor Leste had no right to exist?

Until it did?

Ow. My head hurts.

[WilliamPitt]

7. My brain just died.

[KamaAina]

12. As did mine.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disruptive, offensive and slightly incoherent flamebait.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:53 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: WTH?
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am not really sure what to make of this post. I really don't see anything offensive.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So much "incoherent flamebait" on all sides of this. How can a little more trash talk from supporters of either side be considered "disruptive".
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Isn't this why they started Discussionist?

#7 here, looking for a book deal. Jury system EPIC FAIL.

[Wait Wut]

19. I'm torn.

On one hand, I'm sad to see a jury let it stand. On the other, I'm glad this is allowed to stand. Why? Because I like reading the comments and want more people to speak up.

[NuclearDem]

9. wut

[War Horse]

16. My first thought as well

so I decided not to respond and just let this get buried. And now I guess I've bumped it as well

[conservaphobe]

11. ...

[Wait Wut]

13. You forgot...

...the punchline.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. More adolescent macho bullshit masquerading as "realpolitik"

Who cares? Your OP is like the imbecile rantings of a half-informed 16 year old dude-bro with self-esteem issues.

Keep up the nonsense. The adults in the room will continue trying to solve these complex problems while you puff your chest out and pretend that you're a profound thinker.

[FSogol]

22. My theory? Still summer break for middle sckool!

[closeupready]

37. Exactemente.

Thank you.

[Xithras]

17. Palestine's right to exist is the same as Israel's

Israel's right to exist as a nation exists solely because they enforce that right through violence and war. It was a nation born through war and at the barrel of a gun, as it owes its legitimacy to that use of force. Palestine, similarly, is attempting to exert its right to exist through war and violence. Both nations are moral equals, in that both owe their current legitimacy solely to their use of violence.

It's a classic example of "Might makes Right". Unless one is a raving hypocrite, you cannot acknowledge Israel's right to exist without granting other populations the same right to establish their own states through the use of force and violence. Israel set the precedent. Hamas is just following their lead.

[snooper2]

21. I don't think you are running at max power right now

You need to check your ECU because it is almost completely fried

[Iggo]

24. That kid has no right to that bicycle.

In fact, he doesn't even want it anymore.

If he did want it, he would have protected it better from the likes of me.

[bravenak]

25. I miss FredM.

I have no idead why he comes to mind.

[joeybee12]

30. One question...

"Huh?"

[Max power]

32. For the record

I believe Palestine has the right to exist

I've heard it a Million times ,"Hamas said Israel has no right to exist"

Where does Israel say Palestine has the right to exist ?

Just sayin

[Jeneral2885]

41. Historically

It existed under British rule. The with the formation of Israel in 1948 it was suppose to stay side by side. Yet, Palestinians and neighbouring Arabs states wanted more and invaded the portions of that country given to the Israelis.

[GeorgeGist]

42. This series of maps clearly demonstrates ...

your point is quite misleading.

[econoclast]

47. This series of maps is incomplete and misleading

They leave out that prior to the UN Partition there was never a Palestine. Ever. So map one is just a lie.

1). Under the Ottoman Empire it was illegal to sell land to Jews. Small wonder then that Jews only owned a small % of the land prior to 1947

2). Under the UN Partition all Palestinians had to do was sit down, shut up, and play nice and they would have had a legal, recognized State of their very own. But no. They wanted not half a loaf but the whole thing. In 1948, the Arab League attacked the nascent Israel on behalf of the Palestinians promising to destroy it completely. The Palestinians could have the whole loaf!!! But it didn't work out that way. The Arabs lost.

3). After the 1948/49 war. Jordanian forces were on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. What we call the West Bank. Egyptian forces were also on land that was supposed to have been Palestine under the UN Partition. The Gaza Strip. Egypt and Jordan could have granted those landsto the Palestinians to become a state of Palestine. But no. Egypt and Jordan annexed those lands. They said, in effect ... Palestine? Never heard of it. This is now part of Jordan. This is now part of Egypt.

4). After the 1967 war when Arab countries again tried to wipe Israel off the map but instead got their asses kicked, Israeli forces controlled the West Bank and Gaza Strip .... Remember these lands were now part of Jordan and Egypt - not Palestine - and had been for almost 20 years.

5). Same in 1972 when for a third time an attempt was made to wipe Israel iff the map.

[BillZBubb]

54. The series of maps is complete and CORRECT. You are attempting to mislead.

[Maedhros]

48. The most telling part of this map is the West Bank.

One could quibble that the large uninhabited areas in the south are somewhat irrelevant, but Israel usurpation of the West Bank is obvious and cannot be wished away by the propagandists.

[treestar]

63. What an oddly shaped country it was as envisioned in 1948.eom

[NightWatcher]

46. Is there a button we click to get the MIRT?

[LittleBlue]

53. +1

MIRT, oh MIRT, where are you?

[Coventina]

52. IBTL!!!!

[steve2470]

60. IBTSD or HIDE nt

[hrmjustin]

55. So what happens to the Palestinians?

[Avalux]

58. The man in that photo is backed by Sheldon Adelson.

What else does anyone need to know?

[Agschmid]

59. So here is an idea... THIS WAS A HIT & RUN OP

Let's all agree to ignore it.... (Okay, okay I know I posted)

[Avalux]

61. It's ok, I did too. Sick of seeing Bibi's stupid mug. n/t

[Tetris_Iguana]

62. Can't really argue with that. nt

[Roy Serohz]

64. 0 Recs

Golly gosh-darn it to heck, I wonder why?