"What Is Hateful to You, Do Not Do to Your Fellow: This Is the Whole Torah"

[WilliamPitt]

A sign on the path as you leave the beaches of the Dead Sea
in Eik Bokek, Israel. (Photo: James Emery / Flickr)

"What Is Hateful to You, Do Not Do to Your Fellow: This Is the Whole Torah"
By Akira Watts
BuzzFlash

Wednesday 30 July 2014

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn"

- Rabbi Hillel

As Jews go, I'm a poor one. I like Wagner and bacon, and have been known to seethe a kid in its mother's milk. I have enough tattoos to be banned from burial in any Jewish cemetery, and I gave up on God halfway through my first reading of the Old Testament - in that one passage where he acts like a genocidal psychopath.

I'm a bad Jew.

But, since my mother was Jewish, I am still, technically, Jewish. Which means that, should I so desire, I can move to Israel and, in time, become a citizen. As for the Palestinian guy in Gaza whose family has been living there for 20-odd generations? He lives in an open air prison and if he wants to spend some time in the land of his ancestors, he will be going through multiple armed check points, if he is lucky.

Or, these days, he's not visiting at all, what with the bombings and ground invasion and all. As I write, the Palestinian death toll stands at over 1200, while the Israeli death toll amounts to three civilian casualties and an IDF toll that may have surpassed 50 by now, but would have not occurred if the invasion had not been launched. A UN school has been hit for the second time, with an Israel mortar as the confirmed source, and at least 16 Gazans who sought refuge there are dead.

And the killed are rising at about 100 a day, not to mention those grievously wounded.

The Hamas leadership does in its charter call for the destruction of Israel. This is to be admitted, However, I keep coming back to the rhetoric from the Israeli side. Words like "self defense" and "restraint" are thrown about in seeming ignorance of the fact that these terms have actual meanings. I can't seem to erase the image of the inhabitants of Sderot, sitting in lawn chairs and comfortable couches, eating popcorn and cheering the bombardment of Gaza. I see Netanyahu accusing the Palestinians of presenting "telegenic corpses." The deputy speaker of Knesset Moshe Feiglin's modest proposal for Gaza involves expelling all the inhabitants and killing everyone who remains; previously he called for cutting all power to Gaza's hospitals – and as of yesterday the IDF bombed and put out of commission the primary electrical generator for all of Gaza.

(snip)

Netanyahu and his extreme right-wing majority in the cabinet have been conducting an ongoing covert war of assassination of top Hamas leaders for years. From time to time a justification is found to pulverize lives, schools, and vital services in Gaza not so much to punish Hamas, but in reality to ensure that the lingering hatred that has reached a feverish pitch over such an unspeakable number of deaths in the blockaded enclave will ensure that there will never be a two-state solution.

This is Netanyahu's goal along with the other radical ministers in his cabinet who see Palestinians as an inferior people who need to be permanently colonized.

And every lurch to the right drags the region closer to disaster. Netanyahu's blind pursuit of political power, to the disservice of the Palestinian (and Israeli) people recalls the idol worship of another figure out the past: Ahab. And his relentless obsession with the political destruction of any Palestinian government recalls a newer version of Ahab, from a better written book: "... to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

Netanyahu is tying himself and Israel to Palestine even as he seeks to destroy it and banish it to the abyss. He will destroy them both. Enough. I am a Jew. Were I to become a citizen of Israel, this would be done in my name, and it would be claimed that this would be for my benefit. And that is a monstrous thought to me.

The rest: http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/what-is-hateful-to-you-do-not-do-to-your-fellow-this-is-the-whole-torah

[Fred Sanders]

1. But CNN insists the vast majority of Jewish Israelis support the war...how can this be?

[Scootaloo]

6. Same way the vast majority of US christians supported the war in Iraq

Religious belief is primarily about making exceptions to ethical behavior.

[DesertDiamond]

46. It is for some.

[Viva_Daddy]

2. This is sometimes called the "Silver Rule" as opposed to the "Golden Rule".

Actually, I like it much better than the Golden Rule. It's not always possible to know how or what a person would want for themselves, however it's almost instinctual to know what that "other person" would DISLIKE, because chances are you would dislike it as well.

[merrily]

4. ? The Golden Rule is that you treat someone as you'd like them to treat you.

It does not require your knowing what the other persons likes or dislikes only knowing how you yourself would like to be treated. That includes both things you would like people to refrain from when dealing with you and things you would like them to extend to you. Either way, it does not require you to read anyone else's mind.

And, frankly, though I have read the OT a few times, the silver rule, as you call it. is not what I ever thought the Torah boiled down to. Loving your neighbor as yourself, is however, what Jesus said the entire OT (all the law and the prophets) boiled down to. I didn't see it when I read those words of Jesus, either.

[thesquanderer]

16. The traditional (Christian) golden rule is not as appealing to me, I prefer this "negative" version.

This Jewish philosopher had it right, IMO.

Do NOT do unto others what you would NOT want done to you. It's hard to go wrong with that.

The more active DO unto others as you would have done to you is very presumptuous, and leads to some bad (IMO) outcomes... because you are assuming that what you would want for yourself is also what someone else would want for himself or herself.

This distinction between the classic Jewish and Christian takes on the "golden rule" is consistent with the fact that Christians often prosthelytize and Jews do not.

Christian golden rule version:

"Would you want someone to show you the way to Jesus so that you do not burn in Eternal Hell?"

"Absolutely!"

"Then you must go to non-believers and show them the way. Do unto them what you would have them do unto you."


Jewish golden rule version:

"Would you want someone to try to change your religion?"

"Absolutely not!"

"Then you don't go around trying to change other people's religions. Do not do unto them what you would not want done to you."

[merrily]

28. My post was not about my preference or yours or about anyone's interpretation of the OT.

This distinction between the classic Jewish and Christian takes on the "golden rule" is consistent with the fact that Christians often prosthelytize and Jews do not.

Christian golden rule version:

"Would you want someone to show you the way to Jesus so that you do not burn in Eternal Hell?"

"Absolutely!"

That is not the Christian Golden rule version. Possibly, it is your interpretation of someone else's interpretation, but it is not the context in which the Golden Rule appears in the NT, which, BTW, is not read only by Christians.

But again, my comment did not go to which is better or worse, the Golden Rule or the Silver Rule, or who said it first, and certainly not to whether Judaism is superior to Christianity. I don't know whose posts all the posters who purport to disagree with me have been reading, but my Replies have said nothing remotely like any of the above.

My comment was simply that the entire Torah did not boil down to don't do things to others that you despise. And I don't care if both Hillel and Jesus said it did. It doesn't all boil down to that at all.

[thesquanderer]

33. My reply was in response to this comment of yours:

You said, "The Golden Rule is that you treat someone as you'd like them to treat you. It does not require your knowing what the other persons likes or dislikes only knowing how you yourself would like to be treated. That includes both things you would like people to refrain from when dealing with you and things you would like them to extend to you" (italics added)

that latter part being the active "DO unto others" [positive things] as opposed to my preferred "do NOT do unto others" [negative things] -- because DOING unto others assumes that the other person wants done what you would want done, i.e. that you both see the same things as positive, and that's a big assumption (or as someone else put it, mind reading). The "negative" version is more of a simple "live and let live."

As for whether the classic Christian version is being properly presented in your description, I'm not sure. You say it is about "treating" others, and therefore covers both DOING unto others as well as NOT DOING (refraining from, as you put it) unto others, but Matthew 7:12 is commonly read only in the active sense: "do unto others what you would have them do to you" which is what I was contrasting with the Hillel quote in the OP, which says NOT to do what you would NOT want done to you; and of the two, it is the latter that I prefer.

Anyway, that's just to explain what prompted my post, since you said "I don't know whose posts all the posters who purport to disagree with me have been reading" - so I just wanted to point out exactly what it was you said that I was responding to.

[merrily]

3. Not to quibble, but I thought that was the Golden Rule, from the NT.

The whole Torah seemed to me to be about quite a few other things.

I realize that is not the main point of the OP and I apologize for that.

[starroute]

7. Hillel lived in the first century BC

So he kind of predates the New Testament.

[merrily]

11. Sorry, but Hillel's writings are not part of the Torah.

The statement with which I took issue is that is what everything in Torah supposedly boils down to, not what Hillel wrote or said about the Torah boils down to.

It may well be that the oral tradition that eventually became the NT--at least as the Church handed it down to us--borrowed from Hillel's interpretations, but I did not understand the claims repeated in the OP to be about Hillel's comments came first, either.

[snagglepuss]

8. The Golden Rule from the NT is slightly different. The NT says

DO unto others as you would have them do onto you.

[merrily]

14. Yes, I understand that. I never said the statement from the Op was identical to the Golden Rule

I said I disagreed that the Torah boiled down to the statement from the OP. Then I added some of my own thoughts about the source of another statement that is not identical, but similar

[Bluenorthwest]

18. When asked which was the most important part of the Torah, Jesus answered like Hilel,

'love God with your whole being and love your neighbor like yourself, that is the whole of the Law and of the prophets'.

[merrily]

21. Thanks. I already posted about that on this thread. But Jesus said

all the law and all the prophets, so I think his comment was broader than only the Torah. And, as I posted previously on this thread, I didn't get it when I read those words, either.

[padfun]

30. But that gets me into trouble.

"DO unto others as you would have them do onto you."

I just love to be sexually abused by others, so when I do that back to others, I end up getting thrown in jail.

[Fred Sanders]

35. I think people with psychosis are not included in the saying....just saying.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. The NT is just as bigoted, savage and anti woman as the OT. Yep, it has the 'golden rule' but also

it is about quite a few other things, such as women being inferior, slavery being approved by God and gay people being doomed to eternal hell.

[merrily]

17. Thank you for your view on that, but where did I say the NT was not anti-woman?

Or anything remotely like that? Are you assuming my post was about some religious war I am fighting covertly?

BTW, the OT gets pretty anti-woman in the letters attributed to Paul, not in the words or deeds attributed to Jesus. Not defending or attacking either one. But that is a fact.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. My point is that both bits are about 'quite a few other things' along with some good stuff.

As I point out below, when asked what was the most important aspect of the Law, Jesus said 'love God and love your neighbor is the whole of the Law and the Prophets'. He failed to note that it was also about quite a few other things, but I think this was assumed.

[merrily]

22. Yes, but I never said all the NT boiled down to the Golden Rule, either.

Nor is "love thy neighbor as thyself," the Golden Rule.

And, again, I quoted Jesus on all the law and all the prophets on this thread myself earlier.

And, again, my point was never that the NT was better than the OT or that Christianity is better than Judaism. Or vice versa.

Disagree with me all you like, but kindly disagree with things that I actually posted.

[Akira Watts]

10. OT interpretation

It isn't the only possible interpretation of the Torah, but it's the one that always resonated with me. It skips the legalism and questionable orders from God and his straight for a key ethical imperative. And it's the one ethical imperative that is found in most religions, which is a bonus.

[xocet]

12. Welcome to DU! n/t

[pinto]

13. Welcome to DU. I appreciated your piece.

[merrily]

19. Welcome to DU.

I am a fairly literal person, to a fault, some have said; and sometimes I agree with that criticism.

The OP said that all the Torah boils down to not doing to others that which you do not want done unto you. Being who I am, that is exactly what I responded to and, IMO, no that is not what everything said in the Torah boils down to at all. So, I posted my opinion.

I am kind of sorry that I did because I did not mean to make this thread about what the Torah does or does not say. And certainly not about Judaism vs. Christianity.

[Brainstormy]

24. and I'm probably going to be sorry, too, but

I agree with you. When I read that phrase "all the Torah boils down to . . " I actually laughed out loud. Quite the exaggeration, IMO.

[merrily]

26. Never agree with me at DU. Misread my posts entirely and then

school me. That seems to be the custom in this part of the universe, so try to fit in, willya?

I have no idea what other DUers think they see in my posts or why they think they see it, but quite often, it's nothing I ever posted or would ever dream of posting.

[Peacetrain]

45. Well Jesus was a Rabbi.. and that was his thoughts.. all laws can be interpreted through

the Great Commandment..

Its new testament, OT, nearly every major faith I can think of.. good thing to live by..most people will run over hot coals first, then by true to the teachings of their own faiths.. its the great BUT but but.. What about this?? or that??

No one can ever truly win any debate trying to figure what was meant EXACTLY 2, 000 or 6,000 or 1,400 years ago..

So the Golden Rule.. pretty awesome thing..

[WillyT]

32. Welcome To DU !!!

[Peacetrain]

44. Here you go.. just a few.. and you are right

All things that you would want done for you, Do for others.. Matt. 7:12
Christianity

What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman...Talmud: Shabbat 31a
Judaism

Hurt not others in ways that you would not find hurtful Udana-Varga 5,18
Buddhism

This is sum of duty, Do naught unto others, which would cause you pain if done to you.. Mahaebharata 5,1517
Brahmanism

Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you
Analects 15,23
Confucianism

Regard your neighbors gains as your own gains and your neighbors loss as your own T'ai Shang Kan Yingp P'ien
Taoism

That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself
Dadistan-I-Dinik 94,5
Zoroastrianism

No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother which he desires for himself. Sumnah
Islam

[xchrom]

5. indeed nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. "The bible is a book with some beautiful poetry, a blood stained history, a wealth of obscenity..

and upwards of 10,000 lies." Mark Twain

[malaise]

23. Thanks for this

Rec

[NealK]

25. Thank you for posting this.

I'm so sick of that horrible slaughter.

[Viva_Daddy]

27. I want to know when or if this "rule" will ever by followed by humans. So far, NO!

[randr]

29. Netanyahu is a yahu

His far right wing paranoia has poisoned the people of Israel. His agenda has always been to develop Gaza and keep the American dollars and weapons coming. It is beyond sad what a once exemplar nation has become.

[WillyT]

31. K & R !!!

[kelliekat44]

34. The destruction of Israel called for by indigenous Palestinians is NOT about killing

Jews in Israel but about destroying the land borders carved out of their homeland. They want those borders destroyed and to regain their land. They want to be free in their own land and do not believe that Israel's nation should have been taken out of their land. It is not about "killing all the Jews as the media and the war mongering leaders of both countries want you to believe. That meme is a convenient meme for allowing Israel to be the butchers they have been thus far. For centuries the people of that area lived side by side until outside forces pushed the carving up the land and handing it over to the world as a Jewish homeland. Many of the immigrants and settlers there had no previous linkage to the native population already living there. History is an inconvenient load of truth if one takes the time to learn it. And the result of pushing the war-mongering propaganda it what we have today...a sorry situation. A totally displaced peoples teetering on the edges of genocidal annihilation...much like the Native American.

[Sgent]

36. The quote is in response

to a student asking the Rabbi to teach him the law while standing on one leg. The full quote:

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to another. That is the whole Law. The rest is commentary. Now go and learn.”
― Rabbi Hillel

[Akira Watts]

37. On one leg

For the record, the full quote, with the backstory, is in the article. But it's a few paragraphs down, so there you go.

[Roy Serohz]

38. Bibi cares more about Terror than Torah

I wouldn't be surprised to learn Netanyahu was, in reality, an atheist.

[niyad]

39. you should not insult the atheists like that.

[Akira Watts]

40. Netanyahu an atheist?

He worships power, short term power, nothing more.

[JI7]

41. people who believe in god are often violent

[Peacetrain]

42. Here are a few more religions you will find that in .. including Islam and Buddhism..

All things that you would want done for you, Do for others.. Matt. 7:12
Christianity

What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman...Talmud: Shabbat 31a
Judaism

Hurt not others in ways that you would not find hurtful Udana-Varga 5,18
Buddhism

This is sum of duty, Do naught unto others, which would cause you pain if done to you.. Mahaebharata 5,1517
Brahmanism

Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you
Analects 15,23
Confucianism

Regard your neighbors gains as your own gains and your neighbors loss as your own T'ai Shang Kan Yingp P'ien
Taoism

That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself
Dadistan-I-Dinik 94,5
Zoroastrianism

No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother which he desires for himself. Sumnah
Islam

[ErikJ]

43. Golden Rule is the basis of and part of all religions

Some born-again told me I was going to hell yesterday for saying "oh god" and I told him that god judges by your actions not by your amount of praying or devotion to one faith. Then I said its the Golden Rule how you treat others and he said "that's not in the Bible". HA!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. Bet he believes the rich are closer to God.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. "in that one passage where he acts like a genocidal psychopath."

"One"???

He must have missed the bit where God ordered Joshua to cross the river Jordan and slaughter EVERYONE. Men, women and children.