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Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:06 PM

Our default setting is not 'yes'.

It is long past time to end the assumption that if someone doesn't say no, or fight back, that they are consenting to sexual activity.

People react to stress in different ways. Some may freeze up. Others might be traumatized by past sexual violence and react in passive compliance while inside they're terrified.

It is really not too much to expect that someone should care enough about their partner to notice their state of mind, signified by body language or evasive responses to queries.

One way to fight rape culture is to stop pretending that it is hard to tell if your partner is fully engaged, interested, and enthusiastic. It isn't.

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Our default setting is not 'yes'. (Original post)
redqueen Jul 2014 OP
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #1
redqueen Jul 2014 #3
Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #2
el_bryanto Jul 2014 #4
Trillo Jul 2014 #5
redqueen Jul 2014 #6
LanternWaste Jul 2014 #11
alarimer Jul 2014 #16
salib Jul 2014 #12
raccoon Jul 2014 #7
redqueen Jul 2014 #8
rhett o rick Jul 2014 #9
BainsBane Jul 2014 #10
salib Jul 2014 #14
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #17
redqueen Jul 2014 #19
Trillo Jul 2014 #21
Iggo Jul 2014 #13
redqueen Jul 2014 #18
Iggo Jul 2014 #20
redqueen Jul 2014 #22
PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #15

Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:09 PM

1. You make a good point ...

 

in any examination of society would likely show, the default setting for just about any/every human interaction is "No."

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:22 PM

3. Interesting that in this kind of interaction, it isn't often viewed that way, no? nt

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:22 PM

2. Another breath of commonsense from redqueen!

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:23 PM

4. When you say it that way it seems so logical.

Hard to imagine anybody disputing those points, but I suppose we'll have to see.

Bryant

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:36 PM

5. Perhaps it's one of the problems with compulsory education.

As kids we are forced to comply (effectively the same as "Yes", when we are outright verbally saying, "No. No. No. No. No...," or simply shutting up with passive resistance, perhaps staring out the window dreaming of dragons in the clouds to distract us, and getting marked down for our judged failures. When we are kids, our brains are patterned.

We also see a similar pattern in an overly aggressive sales culture, one that is always seeking to get us to say yes to purchase, and often directly with the use of sexual imagery.

So, if someone doesn't say "No," then the other person is supposed to be a mind reader, perhaps a body language expert? That also seems unreasonable.

Consider a sexual and an asexual (asexuals are believed to be only 0.6-1% of population, so an extreme example) involved in the actual act of consensual sex. The asexual partner is never going to be fully 100% engaged, interested, nor enthusiastic, though the asexual has "compromised" and said "Yes."

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Response to Trillo (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:04 PM

6. One doesn't need to be a body language 'expert'

and no it is not unreasonable.

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Response to Trillo (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:36 PM

11. Common sense will do just fine...

"So, if someone doesn't say "No," then the other person is supposed to be a mind reader, perhaps a body language expert?"

Common sense will do just fine...

and in case that is lacking, simply assume the answer is no, and nobody will have lost anything.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 05:23 PM

16. I think that's a good guide.

Assume "no" unless there is an affirmative "yes."

I think people need to get used to asking point-blank, as well.

When most people are in relationships, they seem to have no trouble asking the question. It happens in my relationship all the time. We ask. Sometimes someone says no. No problem.

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Response to Trillo (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:57 PM

12. Lame

Are you selfish enough to believe that if you want something, and the other person "required" does not put up a fight, then somehow what you want is what is important?

Mindless selfishness.

What you do with other people is at least as much about them and their wishes as it is about you. Your scenario is just sociopathic.

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:15 PM

7. ITA. However, you are assuming that "someone" actually gives a @#$% about the partner's feelings.nt

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Response to raccoon (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:24 PM

8. Sadly true. nt

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:26 PM

9. I think that some men think that society expects them to "take the lead". This needs to be changed.

 

Men need to learn, if they don't know, that society expects them to respect women. And some women need to learn that they deserve to be respected and not settle for less. I hope I said this correctly. This is a sensitive issue and it's easy to misunderstand. Bottom line is that men and women need to respect each other. Another thing. Rape is never ok. I don't think all men understand that.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:29 PM

10. I think you said it quite well

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 05:06 PM

14. I do not think a real answer is not to "take the lead".

Taking the lead or not, the important thing is to actually care about what the other person wants and try to help make that happen, or not if that is not going to happen.

Being taught to "take the lead", if that meant trying to make someone happy if that is what that person appreciates, is a good thing. Then it is, at worst, assertiveness.

The problem is a moral one, not an action one.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 05:50 PM

17. So true ...

 

Rape is never ok. I don't think all men understand that.


As demonstrated here:

the alleged assault took place after the girl, who had been drinking, began kissing 18-year-old Sean Murphy of Boston near one of the venue’s concession stands. When Murphy began to drag the girl away from her friends to a different area of the lawn, the girl said she went with him because “she was afraid of what would happen” if she didn’t.

As a crowd formed around what one person described as “a couple having sex on the lawn,” some began taking pictures and videos of the assault while the concert continued in the background. One woman in the crowd decided to ask the girl if she was consenting, and when the girl said no, she pulled Murphy off her. Murphy disappeared into the crowd, but was later caught by police after they quarantined the concert venue looking for a suspect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025312106


Seems like a bunch of folks don't know what rape is.

I wonder ... What the hell were her "friends" thinking letting Murphy "drag" her away? Maybe times have changed, but I'd think that would merit someone in the group asking: "Hey girl ... You alright with this?" Followed by, "Dude, what are you doing?"

Followed by a beat down at the first wrong answer. When we went somewhere, it was just understood " got your back and you've got mine.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 06:08 PM

19. Many of them probably thought it was 'romantic'. nt

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 06:47 PM

21. Sure, but look at some other "signatures" in that article.

It was batched together with maybe 7 other rapes and suicides. The report it is based on is this one, which is linked in the thinkprogress article.

The language used is significantly different. There is no allegation of being dragged.

Murphy allegedly took the girl's hand and led her away from her friends to another section of the lawn, promising to bring her back. Assistant District Attorney Melissa Tafe said the girl told police she went with the defendant because "she was afraid of what would happen" if she didn't go.

Police say several onlookers videotaped or took photos of the incident, some of which have been obtained by investigators for evidence.

The incident was stopped only after a woman intervened and asked the girl if she was consenting. When the girl said no, the woman allegedly pulled the suspect off the girl, according to police.


There is no publicly-available video. Lots of questions at this point, few answers that are public.

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 04:59 PM

13. In fact, the default is No.

Everyone knows that.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 06:02 PM

18. Sadly no, some don't.

This isn't as uncommon a response as one might hope.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 06:35 PM

20. He knows it, too.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 01:22 PM

22. That

is a very depressing thought

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Response to redqueen (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 05:11 PM

15. truth. n/t

 

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