At the risk of annoying many DUers I have to say

[malaise]

that the silence from both Bill and Hillary Clinton re Michael Brown's execution in Ferguson is deafening and frightening.
Both jumped up and supported the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians. I am truly both shocked and disappointed.
Their silence, and the silence from way too many Democrats is not acceptable.

[oldandhappy]

1. You do not annoy me, I agree.

[OLDMADAM]

130. What would they say that will advance the ducussion?

Don't you think it's time to let this investigation get to the real facts.. I think too many folks in higher office have only aided the opposition to justice.. I'll start with the Governor, calling for a prosecution of the officer before the grand jury has heard a single word, and the Attorney General commenting that he sides with the parents, assuming a swift conviction.. I want what everyone else wants, justice without any more lawlessness from either side..

We need calm minds and strong leadership, and I haven't seen much of that.. It's looking more and more like a lynch mob..

[Kalidurga]

144. O70 I believe

"You don't know the facts."
We actually know plenty of facts.
1. Josie was a hoax
2. Mike Brown's friend has never changed his story.
3. Mike Brown was Travon'd just days after being gunned down.
4. There is a 2 page police report with very little information on it and a lot of that has been reddacted.
5. The police in Ferguson have been caught inciting violence.
6. Eye witness accounts are consistant
7. The Officer Robo Cop didn't know that the jaywalker was a suspect for anything other than jaywalking.
8. Mike Brown's body was left in the street for 5 hours.
9. Numerous other officers have been caught on film abusing their authority.

So there is plenty to talk about without a media conviction and without condeming the officer before a trial. And it needs to be done now and for until this chit stops.

[nomorenomore08]

149. +1000000

Thank you so much for this post! You should consider reworking it into an OP.

[Kalidurga]

160. Thank you

I am tired of the we don't know nothing brigade.

[JEB]

162. All of the above would be good points

for either or both or all three to bring up. Obvious police corruption, brutality, criminality should be ignored no longer.

[OLDMADAM]

166. "You don't know the facts." .. Absolutely true..

And unless you were present at that moment, you don't either.. I have no idea who to believe, and I now choose to wait until all of the FACTS are known before I jump to any conclusions.. I have been burnt too often accepting the early Conventional Wisdom, and finding out later that I was wrong, not just wrong, but arguing with folks that turned out to be right..

Sorry if this strikes you as being unfaithful, but I suggest you proceed with a touch of caution.. Thats just me..

[Kalidurga]

167. It doesn't strike me as unfaithful

It strikes me more like never faithful. I prefer to be uncautious when presuming the innocence of people especially people of color who have been murdered by the police. I don't need to know everything to be able to smell corruption. The FPD reeks of it. I could smell it when this story was barely a blip on my radar.

Why are you so quick with this arguement about not knowing facts? Do you always what for all the minute details of everything before forming an opinion? How many facts do you need? Enough to write a 5 page paper? Or perhaps enough for a disertation? Oh heck lets research for the book version of the events for the day, I am sure the FPD will have enough corruption to fit a book.

[OLDMADAM]

190. Thank you, you made my case better than I could have..

Just think that any delicately chosen words that I proffer, given my low count posts, that a poster is required to be safe from ridicule or worse, could escape unscathed, is to deny reality.. To you, and too many on this Democratic forum, being a skeptic in face of the contradictory evidence, or lack of fact is to be, as you say, "It strikes me more like never faithful. I prefer to be uncautious when presuming the innocence of people especially people of color who have been murdered by the police.", the WOW factor is off the scale..

"How many facts do you need?".. well, as many knowledgeable voices as are available, to judge which are credible, and those which are offered to fit a preconceived agenda, as true as the agenda may be supported by their own facts.. I can't conceive how it could be justified, to shoot an unarmed teen, to death, there may be more behind the scenes to add substance to that travesty.. Until I hear more, and since it doesn't cost anything to wait a short time, I'll err of the side of caution, and pray the radicals don't taint the future..

[Veilex]

204. Have you actually looked the available evidence over yet?

It is rather considerable. There are numerous videos of the FPD acting with unacceptable behavior that would get them pulled off the street in any other PD. Add to that, the numerous reportings from various news agencies of said misbehavior. A bit of caution in coming to judgment is wise... but I think your tipping point on coming to judgment is a bit skewed in this instance.

Also, there is nothing that says to cannot re-evaluate your position.

[OLDMADAM]

208. That is as fair as can be said..

Everything that you state appears to be factual, but that isn't necessarily the only possibilities, although if this is all we have at the end, it's enough for my conclusion of this officer to be guilty, but the gathering of evidence has just begun, and I wish to hear it all before I hang this or any person.. Why is it so important that this happen in such a hurry, more threats of violence?

That isn't enough for me, the mob rule works for some in this case, but I have lived through troubled times, when the shoes being on the other foot..

[Veilex]

218. I understand the hesitation...

Perhaps you've not been sensitized to police brutality. It is an epidemic that has only increased over recent years. Many responses to their activity may seem rash, or impatient. Though for many, the evidence of police abuse and violence has been a reality for quite some time... and this is frequently why their reactions may seem harsh or kneejerk-ish. Add to all this, that FPD has a well established history of violence and intolerance, and you'll find that many are unwilling to await further evidence when existing evidence is rather damning.

I've served in an enforcement role, and know first hand some of the abuses that happen to innocent civilians at the hands of those who should be protecting the public. For example; people often assume that law enforcement are not allowed to lie... truth is, they can lie their tails off all they want, and frequently do. Law enforcement can also lie to you in order to search your person, affects and domicile and never get in trouble for it. It's unethical as heck... but not illegal. I bring this up specifically due to the numerous lies that have been perpetrated by FPD in an attempt to cover up mistakes and misbehavior... this is par for the course for corrupt law enforcement personnel.

Long story short, it is not for no reason that many are being so quick to judge FPD. Many feel there is copious reason to view them as negatively as they do. I tend to agree with many of them.

[OLDMADAM]

219. That is a thoughtful reply, and I thank you for it, however..

Last edited Mon Aug 25, 2014, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm no youngster, and am a black woman, with biracial boys, and girl, that has lived to watch this culture get worse by the day.. I left my hometown of Chicago because it has become lawless, and unlivable, and my company relocated to Texas.. Thank heavens I had an escape route, most of my friends and family do not.. They, as I were afraid to leave our homes in neighborhoods that we grew up in, in fear of our lives, not from the police, but our very own neighbors that became the predators that the police provided our only defense..

I know first hand what a community can deteriorate into, and what the cops and law enforcement is faced with on a day to day basis, and how some can become what they are fighting against..

That can never be an excuses for what those few are, and how much harm they cause, not just to minorities, but to the symbol of justice, but it is all we have, and the overwhelming majority are not like that.. I stand by my premise that I will reserve judgement until all the facts are in, and not what others have done in the past, I wouldn't want my sons or husband judged by what others have done in other situations..

[Veilex]

221. Understood, but again...

FPD has a history of these sorts of activities. Were it someone else, I'd be on board with you... but they've already crafted their own rap sheet, as it were.

the department’s problems stretch back years and include questions about its officers’ training and racial sensitivity.

The office of Missouri’s attorney general concluded in an annual report last year that Ferguson police were twice as likely to arrest African Americans during traffic stops as they were whites.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/even-before-teen-michael-browns-slaying-in-mo-racial-questions-have-hung-over-police/2014/08/13/78b3c5c6-2307-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Even the department police chief recognizes the problem for what it is.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson acknowledged the problems facing his department and asked the community for help in restoring its trust.

“Apparently, there has been this undertow that has bubbled to the surface,” Jackson said at a news conference. “It’s our priority to address it and to fix what’s been going wrong.

When comments like:

For at least a decade, there have been complaints about racial tensions between police and black communities in the St. Louis County area.

are the norm, clearly there are some very valid judgments due.

I totally respect your hesitancy... but I also hope this all helps you to understand why others, such as myself, are where we're at.

[indivisibleman]

195. The only crime in being proven wrong

is not having the guts to admit it.
People make judgements all the time based upon solid evidence and arguments as to why that judgement has been made. There comes a point with any issue where most sane people arrive upon objective conclusions. There will always be people opposed to those conclusions due to being blinded by their own prejudice while still others will refuse to take a position because they are afraid of being burned.
I would like to ask what fact or facts could possibly come out that would change the general conclusions that most people have made regarding this execution?
Have at it. Share with us some possible scenario that would make clear to us that officer Wilson was completely in the right for his actions.

[OLDMADAM]

201. Conclussions are drawn from the totality of the evidance..

Where did I say, or have I inferred that the officer was innocent, of this crime? YES I CALL IT A CRIME, because any mitigating circumstances that may have lead to this action can only aid in the conclusions reached by this officer that limited his perceived options, in real time..

Was the officer aware of the recent Strong Armed Robbery, with a fair description of these teens.. This would justify the officer to approach the boys with an added fear of danger.. Was the officer injured in a scuffle with the teen, and if so, how serious, and what happened to cause the scuffle.. Was it fighting over his gun? Needless to say, that would escalate the temperature of the incident..

Where were the wounds, and how could they be explained, by qualified professionals, and how does that match the eye witnesses accounts, ALL of them?

I believe this is a tragedy no matter what, how a boy could lose his life so carelessly, unless his own actions could have placed himself in a heightened state of danger do to his own poor choices and actions..

[Boudica the Lyoness]

217. Teens?

Only one was in his teens and he was an adult teen. The other is 22 years old. Neither one are "boys".

Otherwise I agree with you.

[OLDMADAM]

220. Thank you.. I stand corrected..

[indivisibleman]

193. People who say, "wait for the facts to come out"

are really just waiting for something to use to defend Wilson. We all have enough facts already to see that an innocent black teenager was gunned down by a white cop, the police are doing everything they can to run cover for the cop, the shooting of Michael Brown is symptomatic of a larger problem.

[malaise]

224. +1,000

Every person in a position of leadership should have at least condemned the desecration of Michael Brown's body. That 'lynch' threat cannot be tolerated in America unless it is open season for targeting African-Americans (as if that ever ceased).

[Veilex]

202. Its not a matter of advancing the ducussion...

it is a matter of taking a stance so the citizenry knows what to expect of their political leadership. If neither she, nor Bill can't be bothered to take a stance, I can't be bothered to vote for her.

[OLDMADAM]

206. Whether you chose to vote for her or not is youur perogitive..

How you reach that conclusion is dependent on your set of values, and that is none of my business.. I'm speaking of this incident, and what she or Bill can say to advance the successful adjudication of this crime.. Unless they were eyewitnesses all they can accomplish speaking up, is what other high profiles have already done and that hasn't helped much IMHO..

[Legalequilibrium78]

210. Thank God there are still objective

Sober people like you, here on D.U. too many folks here are too invested on emotional rhetoric, a feel good "yeah that's what am talking about speech" which will not bring any real and meaningful change and or justice to what many of us from all accross the political spectrum and class wants.

The left are similar to the right on trying to demonize or finding someone to latch, find faults, blame, on many social and economic issues that most Americans are facing. It is not productive, but rather a very counter productive to the expansion of a cohesive political discourse that should include all Americans (not just whites or blacks) instead of finding faults on why the two prominent members of the Democratic party have not weighed yet to the Michael Brown shootings. People like you are exactly part of the reason why this country is heading to the direction it's heading. You offer no solutions, but rather blame and placing guilt unto others for not feeling or thinking the way you do, the way you see things (in absolute) and not look at it's complexities.

[steelsmith]

222. I totaly agree

I simply cannot understand why people are so convinced of the officers guilt in this matter, nor the smear job of the officials in Ferguson, who appear to be trying to do their job in a difficult situation. It seems to me that there will be plenty of opportunity for one side or the other to be upset after the investigation and possible trial. It would make sense to wait till then instead of resorting to violence before the facts are known.
This is a tragedy, but until we know what happened all this violence just hurts those of us who are saddened by Michael Brown's death.

[msongs]

2. or not nt

[roguevalley]

104. i have mentioned it all week. hey hillary, your three a.m. phone is ringing

[Louisiana1976]

3. You don't annoy me either. Bill and Hillary Clinton should stand up and speak out on Ferguson. I

wonder what it means that they aren't doing so.

[VanGoghRocks]

62. Given that the cops are (and have been since, oh, about 1981) a goon squad for the

1%, I would say an examination of Bill and Hillary's balance sheet should supply all the explanation one might require.

[4b5f940728b232b034e4]

136. They left the White House poor

Got a citation for your 1% claim?

[Divernan]

178. You betcha! Bill Clinton net worth- $80 million; HRC - between $5 & $25 million

Where have you been hiding for the past couple of months - tons and tons of posts about the Clintons' accumulation of wealth since leaving the White House. But here you go, in excruciating detail, courtesy of HRC's State Department filing.

And these numbers are BEFORE her recent multi-million speaking fees, and also don't include the multi-million vanity family non-profit, which is totally under the control of the Clintons and pays them undisclosed amounts in salary and benefits, not to mention 5 star luxury travel accomodations - private jets, personal assistants, presidential suites at hotels, etc. That's why I call it a VANITY non-profit.

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/bill-clinton-net-worth/

http://www.davemanuel.com/pols/hillary-clinton/

HRC: Average Net Worth: $13,130,504*

Minimum Net Worth: $710,008
Maximum Net Worth: $25,550,999

Average 2011 Income: $13,801,055**

Min. Gross Income: $13,737,009
Max. Gross Income: $13,865,100

Name: Hillary Clinton
Last Filing: May 31st, 2012

Title: Secretary of the State
Salary: $186,600

Party: Democrat

Term Start: January 21st, 2009
Term End: January 20th, 2013
Assets

JP Morgan Custody Account (Cash) $5,000,001 - $25,000,000
Real Property, California (Spouse) $500,001 - $1,000,000
National Life Insurance Company (Cash Value - Universal Life Policy) (Spouse) $100,001 - $250,000
US Treas NTS 4.875% 8/15/16 BOND $50,001 - $100,000
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance (Cash Value - Whole Life Policy) (Spouse) $15,001 - $50,000
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance (Cash Value - Whole Life Policy) $15,001 - $50,000
Fed Home Ln MTG 4.875% 11/15/13 Bond $15,001 - $50,000
US Treas NTS 4.625% MAT 2/29/12 Bond $15,001 - $50,000
US Treas NTS 5.00% 2/15/11 BOND Less Than $1,001
Income

Abu Dhabi Global Environmental Data Initiative (AGEDI) (Spouse) Abu Dhabi, UAE $500,000
Bank Administration Institute (Spouse) Chicago, IL $200,000
HSM Americas, Inc. (Spouse) New York, NY $175,000
Deloitte Services LP (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
Highland Capital (Spouse) New York, NY $175,000
TD Ameritrade (Spouse) Las Vegas, NV $200,000
American Express (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
World Market Center SPE, LLC (Spouse) Las Vegas, NV $175,000
UBS Wealth Management (Spouse) Dallas, TX $165,000
Jeffries & Company, Inc. (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
Magic Dreams Productions, Inc. (Spouse) Panama City, Panama $325,000
Fundo Comunitario of Keren Hayesod Sao Paulo (Spouse) Sao Paulo, Brazil $200,000
World 50, Inc. (Spouse) New York, NY $175,000
Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
UBS Wealth Management (Spouse) Los Angeles, CA $150,000
Bank of America Merrill Lynch (Spouse) $200,000
Ontario Chamber of Commerce (OCOC) (Spouse) Toronto, Canada $175,000
Beaumont Health Systems (Spouse) Troy, MI $260,000
HCL America, Inc. (Spouse) Orlando, FL $200,000
Hualuo CEO Forum (Spouse) Shanghai, China $550,000
Telefonaktiebolagel LM Ericsson AB (Spouse) Hong Kong, China $750,000
Masie Center (Spouse) Orlando, FL $200,000
Association for Financial Professionals (AFP) (Spouse) Boston, MA $175,000
Defense Research Institute (DRI) (Spouse) Washington, DC $204,000
Silicon Valley Information Business Alliance (SVIBA) (Spouse), Santa Clara, CA $200,000
City of Surrey (Spouse) Surrey, BC, Canada $175,000
American Society for Clinical Pathology (ASCP) (Spouse) Las Vegas, NV $200,000
Achmea (Spouse) Achlum, Holland
Yum! Restaurants International (Spouse) Vancouver, Canada $160,000
Highstar Capital (Spouse) Washington, DC $175,000
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) (Spouse) $255,000
Cambridge Energy Research Associates $175,000
Business and Finance Media Group (Spouse) $125,000
The Philharmonic Center for the Arts (Spouse) $200,000
Kuwait America Foundation (Spouse) $175,000
RSA, Security Division of EMC (Spouse) San Francisco, CA $175,000
Hualuo CEO Forum (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
Barclays Capital (Spouse), Davos, Switzerland $325,000
Tanmiah Commercial Group (Spouse) Riyadh, Saudi Arabia $300,000
Bridgestone America Tire Operations (Spouse) Huntington Beach, CA $175,000
Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) (Spouse) Chicago, IL $170,000
Cisco Systems, Inc. (Spouse) Kiawah Island, SC $210,000
Leaders and Company Ltd. (THISDAY Newspaper Group) (Spouse) Lagos, Nigeria $700,000
Center for Global Dialogue and Cooperation (CGDC) (Spouse) Vienna, Austria $500,000
Ilau BBA USA Securities, Inc. (Spouse) New York, NY $175,000
TD Bank (Spouse) Fredericton and Antigonish, Canada $260,000
Fidelity Investments (Spouse) Orlando, FL $175,000
The National Council for Community Behavioral Healthcare (NCCBH) (Spouse) San Diego, CA $260,000
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc. (Spouse) Key Largo, FL $200,000
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) (Spouse) Jersey City, NJ $200,000
Goldman Sachs (Spouse) New York, NY $200,000
Whisky Productions (Spouse) Grand Cayman $225,000
Nideias Comunicacao Ilimitada Ltda (Spouse) Manaus, Brazil $390,000
JP Morgan Custody Account (Cash) $50,001 - $100,000
Random House (Spouse) - My Life $50,001 - $100,000
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance (Cash Value - Whole Life Policy) (Spouse) $5,001 - $15,000
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance (Cash Value - Whole Life Policy) $5,001 - $15,000
Simon & Schuster, Inc. - Living History $2,501 - $5,000
US Treas NTS 4.875% 8/15/16 BOND $2,501 - $5,000
US Treas NTS 4.625% MAT 2/29/12 Bond $1,001 - $2,500
Fed Home Ln MTG 4.875% 11/15/13 Bond $201 - $1,000
US Treas NTS 5.00% 2/15/11 BOND $201 - $1,000

Liabilities

CitiMortgage, Inc., Sioux Falls, SD Mortgage on Personal Residence $1,000,001 - $5,000,000

Agreements

Charitable gift assignment regarding the literary work "Invitation to the White House" White House Historical Society 12/99
Publishing Agreement regarding the literary work "Invitation to the White House" Simon & Schuster, Inc. 12/99
Charitable gift assignment regarding the literary work "Dear Socks, Dear Buddy" National Parks Foundation 9/98
Publishing Agreement regarding the literary work "Dear Socks, Dear Buddy" Simon & Schuster, Inc. 9/98
Publishing Agreement Regarding the Literary Work "Living History" approved by Senate Committee on Ethics Simon & Schuster, Inc. 1/01
Publishing Agreement Regarding the Literary Work "It Takes a Village" Simon & Schuster, Inc. 12/06
Positions Held Outside U.S. Government

The Clinton Family Foundation, Chappaqua, NY Non-profit Charity Secretary/Treasurer 12/2001-Present
William Jefferson Clinton Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust Life Insurance Trust Trustee 07/1996-Present
William J. Clinton 2010 Irrevocable Trust Life Insurance Trust Trustee 12/2010-Present
William J. Clinton 2010 Residence Trust Residence Trust Co-Trustee 12/2010-Present
Hilary Rodham Clinton 2010 Residence Trust Residence Trust Co-Trustee 12/2010-Present
Estate of Dorothy E. Rodham Estate Co-Personal Representative 12/2011-Present

Transactions

Type Asset Amount Date Partial
Sell JP Morgan US Treasury Money Market Fund (consolidated with the JP Morgan Custody Account - Cash) $5,000,001 - $25,000,000 3/2/2011 N

Notes:
-value of personal residence not included in this filing
-bulk of the Clinton's family income is generated by Bill's speeches
-Bill Clinton's taxable pension of $191,300 is not included in this filing. The former President also receives a number of other perks, including travel expenses, staff salaries, rental payments (office) and Secret Service protection

-Teneo Holdings LLC, Varkey GEMS Foundation and Laureate Education, Inc. all listed "other income" of "Nonemployee compensation over $1,000"

Source: US Department of State


*Average Net Worth = (Max Net Worth + Min Net Worth) / 2

**Average Income = (Max Net Worth + Min Net Worth) / 2
Includes Salary, Doesn't Include Deductions

Note: Assets and Income are given in ranges, which is why there is a minimum and maximum net worth and income figure.

[IrishAyes]

158. Malaise can always be counted on for great OP's and posts.

If someone minds, it's their loss.

What does it mean that neither Hillary nor Bill is speaking up? Maybe a seismic shift in her chances for '16. I already feel a tearing of the ties that used to bind.

[ZombieHorde]

4. They may not be commenting on it because

they don't want to taint the case.

[VanillaRhapsody]

6. the only ones saying this....just want them to say something so they have something to

criticise them for!

[Logical]

7. LOL, you crack me up! nt

[stillwaiting]

172. It's unreal. There's always a spin I guess. nt

[Iggo]

10. ...or because she caught shit for supporting the Netanyahu.

[starroute]

52. So she learned a lesson after supporting violent attacks on Palestinian civilians ...

And is applying it by not saying a word against the violence suffered by black people in Ferguson.

Makes perfect sense.

[Iggo]

60. I didn't say it was the right thing to do.

It could also be this: She didn't care who she'd piss off with her support of Netanyahu, but she does care who she'd piss off with her support of black folks against white cops.

It's all guesswork, of course, until or unless she actually says something. But her silence creates a vacuum that's guaranteed to be filled with speculation.

[Vincardog]

15. Obama can use that excuse. HRC is a private citizen she can not taint the case.

She (IMO) is not commenting because she does not want to offend her Center Right backers.

[ZombieHorde]

27. That is my guess too, but I wanted to offer an alternative view. nt

[hifiguy]

37. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[VanGoghRocks]

63. She supported klling over 1,000,000 Iraqi civiilians based on lies, so I don't

know why anyone woudl be that surprised that she remains silent.

[2banon]

94. That's an interesting pov. She doesn't want to piss off the Center Right?

So following that logic then, I am compelled to understand that tacit approval of what happened (by the police) is copesetic with the "mainstream" in this country? Racists/bigoted out of control police force murdering an unarmed human being is okey dokey with mainstream murika..

check.

[sprts]

101. Yes it's called Triangulation,

She learned it from the master of triangulation "slick willie"

[Vincardog]

113. No the problem here is that "Racists/bigoted out of control police force murdering an unarmed human"

Is abhorred by mainstream America. The RW wants the Police to be militarized to protect them from the dirty unwashed.
Those are the "people" HRC does not want to offend.

[cstanleytech]

95. "HRC is a private citizen" and she is allowed to speak or not speak on any topic she wishes but

regardless which way she goes I am sure there will will always be someone who will find fault with her decision such as the OP.

[rhett o rick]

128. Poor HRC. People will pick on her no matter what she says. I will. She is a too for the Aristocracy

She choose to side with George Bush the worst president in history and she has blood on her hands. There are a lot of good and decent people in the world to support but I will never support her. She is a "private citizen" that gets hundreds of thousands of corrupt money from Goldman-Sachs, and I hope she stays that way.

[cstanleytech]

150. Your post proves my point rhett, thank you.

And no one said you couldnt pick on her rhett for whatever reason your heart desires, so I'll let you get back to it.

[Leontius]

211. There's only been two Presidents in my lifetime that weren't tools for the elite of our society.

And neither get the respect and honor due them for their struggle for the least well off in America.

[2banon]

184. In or out of Office. HRC is not a "Private" Citizen, albeit technically true until her last breath.

You may not recognize her not-so-transparent attempt to engage in campaigning for POTUS, CURRENTLY, but if you pull the wool veil from over your eyes.. it'll be plain as day.. give it a try. As far as finding fault.. that's not the least of her problems. She's just another corrupt megalomaniac pol, on par with all the others.

[cstanleytech]

188. That was a quote from Vincardog. And there is no wool over my eyes at all I just

am acknowledging the fact that she cannot be compelled to commit on something just because you and others want her to nor does she have to shut her mouth because others might want her to either.
In other words its her choice to make a comment or not, its not yours to make her choice for her.

[2banon]

192. Sure it's her choice. That's not the argument or the criticism, strawman

Sure she's "entitled" to keep silent on this. And the public is entitled to expect her to make a public condemnation of the Police Force's actions and if she chooses to be/remain silent, we're entitled to make note of it NOW, and forever remind people when she finally does "officially" announce her candidacy.

[pennylane100]

25. I think they alsodo no want to taint their election chances.

[mimi85]

139. Is Bill running for something? nt

[tridim]

176. They're not commenting because in all these serious situations they always say the wrong thing.

That is a big problem, and they know it.

[Cleita]

5. You're right. It's certainly not cool. n/t

[mylye2222]

8. Instead of anoying me it is a pleasure to see this op.

They are probaly too busy promoting themselves and trashing Obama. As usual. ...

[mmonk]

9. They don't want to dissuade any rightwing voters who may want to vote for her.

To the Third Way, that is the most important thing.

[mylye2222]

14. Yep! !!!!!

As they didnt want to hurt Netanyahu . Otherwise they could be less $$$$$$$ from AIPAC funding HRC 2016 bid! !!!! Heh? What is the value of Gazaian lives besides extra cash and a golden office for them????

[juajen]

110. They have it made financially, and the golden office is a damn nightmare, not

golden. Anyone that takes on this office right now, is a saint.

[JaydenD]

35. This is it. They don't want to upset their Republican colleagues

like McCain and those other soulless freaks and maybe the hopes of keeping some repug votes, delusional calculation on their part. If they speak for war like the many times they have, or to defend Netanyahoo the war mongering murderer, or give Wall street cuddles because their feelings are so hurt from the people they robbed, no problemo. But the palestinians of Ferguson are not worth their time.

[WinkyDink]

214. "the palestinians of Ferguson"...Bwahahahahaha! Yeah, okay.

[Doctor_J]

124. and conservative white donors

Hrc needs white money for her campaign

[JaydenD]

163. Clinton: Obama Not Winning Over "Hard-Working Americans, White Americans"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08/clinton-obama-not-winning_n_100763.html

What a disgrace of a person to say something like that in her desperate campaign of '08 - just flailing and grabbing for any slight chance to recover from her own mistakes and poor judgement and then expect people to forget she says these disgraceful things the second time around.

Her campaign slogan: Forget what I said.

[jwirr]

11. I agree.

[UTUSN]

12. Not annoying me. I spent the '90s defending them, strongly supported her in '08

And my lesson for myself from those '90s was that we need leaders for whom our Democratic AGENDA is the top priority, NOT leaders with lots of personal baggage that demands our DIVERTING our energies away from all of us working toward the agenda for the sake of DEFENDING them.

If she is the nominee, I'll certainly vote for her and attempt to get others to, as I have for Dems of all wings of the Democratic coalition, but mainly because she might be the strongest to beat Rethugs, and because ANY Dem is better than any Rethug, but she is a magnet for Rethug attacks and even after the FAKE impeachment and the attacks on OBAMA, we ain't seen nothing yet for Rethugs attacking the way they will go after her.

[JDPriestly]

75. Thank you. Well said.

[juajen]

114. I agree with that

However, I have republican relatives that are beginning to think of supporting her, as a protest for the way they are attacking her. Of course, most are women. This really is an attempt to coagulate the support of women, and the oppostion is playing right into Hill's hands.

[MoonRiver]

129. Has Elizabeth Warren spoken about Ferguson?

I know she tweeted "This is America, not a War Zone," but anything else of substance?

[MannyGoldstein]

143. Yes, please do an Internet search. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Well to be fair...

Warren, another prominent Dem, didn't do much better.

All she could muster was a single tweet.

[VanGoghRocks]

66. Hear, hear. Contrast Warren's and Sanders' near-silence with the near-unanimous and

strident denunciation of police brutality and abuse by various Socialist and Communist organizations, from Kshama Sawant of Socialist Alternative to Bob Avakian of the Revolutionary Communist Party (and all points in-between).

[wyldwolf]

72. Thank you for acknowledging this

It's an inconvenient fact for many on DU.

[OilemFirchen]

90. Bob AMWAYkian.

Hated universally.

Except here.

[VanGoghRocks]

106. I'm no devotee of the cult of Chairman Bob. But I don't get the Amway reference. Is

tbere some arcane point by which Avakian is connected to Amway? Or is this your way of suggesting that the RCP is a pyramid-type scheme?

Your answer, no matter what it is, will not offend me. (I don't pay much attention to the specifics of the sectarian internecine squabbles among the various Socialist and Communist organizations.)

[OilemFirchen]

115. There may not be a financial incentive...

but it's clearly a cult, and the members actively recruit in much the same manner as those involved in a pyramid scheme. While, of course, Bob languishes somewhere in the French Riviera, having convinced his clan that he's in constant mortal danger. The moniker may not be precise, but it works.

The RCP has been widely criticized on the Left for constructing a cult of personality around Avakian. During an interview with a college radio program in Madison, Wisconsin whether there was a cult of personality being developed around Bob Avakian, Avakian responded "I certainly hope so — we’ve been working very hard to create one."[65]

The debate has taken on renewed life since a prominent fellow affiliate in the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), has disassociated themselves from this method of promoting leaders. Avakian contends that there are two mainstays of communist political work: the role of the party press and the 'Appreciation, Promotion and Popularization' of Bob Avakian".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Avakian#Claims_of_.22Cult_of_Personality.22

BTW, this isn't a mere "internecine squabble". They are truly despised, worldwide.

[VanGoghRocks]

141. Out here in Los Angeles, I don't know as the RCP is so much 'despised,' as it is 'ridiculed,' since

its main function out here seems to be selling its newspaper Revolution The Pacifica affiliate here, KPFK, frequently features a RCP commentator on the Michael Slate show named (IIRC) "Larry Everest." I have always found Mr. Everest's commentary to be pretty spot-on, if only b/c he stays away from the constant promotion of 'Chairman Bob.' Revolution also has some hard-hitting writers in its news area, certainly writing much harder prose than the bourgeois media (with the exception, perhaps, of Charlie Pierce in Esquire).

Full Disclosure: I may have actually at one point been 'recruited' to join the RCP 2004-05. I didn't make the cut (obviously!) , probly b/c I kept correcting the interrogator\recruiter on specific points related to Marxism-Leninism The Maoist\Nepal stuff gets pretty esoteric sometimes and is not my area of expertise.

[nomorenomore08]

161. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...

[socialist_n_TN]

93. Don't forget Workers' Power- US and the League for a Fifth International.....

http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/racist-cop-murders-spark-resistance

But you're right, the denunciation on the real Left was pretty much universal. From the Democratic Party and their "leaders"? Not so much.

[JDPriestly]

78. But Hillary's silence is deafening.

She appears to be trying to take over the Democratic Party and to lead, but she is silent on Ferguson?

That is very odd. Her silence says a lot.

[juajen]

209. Please elucidate.

How is Hillary trying to take over the democratic party? Elizabeth is a sittin Senator, of a state that has racial problems on a daily basis, and is nationally recognized for this in the media. Elizabeth gets a pass, while, Hill is criticized for remaining silent.

Baiting her does not mean she will bite. Yep, her silence does say a lot. She is a private citizen, who might or might not run for President of the United States. If she comments, she will appear to be attempting to speak for the party.

Frankly, this is a transparent attempt to force her into a corner. I hope she remains stoic and keeps her mouth shut.

[U4ikLefty]

96. Well to be fair, that's 100% more than Hillary has done to this point.

[alsame]

16. I agree. The silence is deafening. nt

[fadedrose]

17. Silence doesn't mean approval....

Election time is when we get a chance to speak....

[LloydS of New London]

18. You're not annoying ME

K&R!

[sadoldgirl]

19. Especially since people liked to call BC the" first black president".

[seveneyes]

20. silence that speaks so much louder than words

[avebury]

21. I totally agree with you.

And it doesn't stop with Bill and Hillary Clinton. There has been too many Democrats that have been silent. Heck I don't even know if Oprah has made any public comments.

[malaise]

23. Well said

[The Magistrate]

22. I Agree They Should Speak Out, Ma'am

And further, submit that is the best course by the coldest standard of political calculation.

"Things done by a government which are morally insupportable generally turn out in the long run to have been poor politics as well."

[malaise]

24. Profound

[BlancheSplanchnik]

51. .

[mopinko]

126. so tru dat.

hope that pds across the country take this moment to shed their worst thugs.
are you listening rahm?
political gold on the left, aint it?

[paleotn]

148. Indeed. (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

26. She's a private individual. Not in government and not in congress.

And not currently running for any office. Should every former senator or former government official, now in private life, be expected to share their thoughts? (Obviously if she was currently a candidate for any office I would fully expect her to explain her views on every issue, Ferguson included).

[truedelphi]

31. Hmmmmm. But stop and think about why

People here might think she is running for office.

Just a few weeks ago, every day there were 3 or 4 topics up asking if we were going to support her bid for President.

It got to be so much free publicity for HRC that I thought maybe the Presdential election was November of this year!

[DonCoquixote]

84. answers

Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 07:09 PM - Edit history (1)

" Should every former senator or former government official, now in private life, be expected to share their thoughts?"

Hell yes...

(Obviously if she was currently a candidate for any office I would fully expect her to explain her views on every issue, Ferguson included).

And of course, she takes up all the oxygen in the room poarking in the 2016 candidate position.

And let's be real blunt, the fact that she has been, BY OUR VOTES, in a position of power, already obliges her to speak. Even if she never ever left her house again, she has influence which needs to be APPLIED, the same way Obama was forced to "eveolve" when she and Joe Biden placed pressure upon him about LGBT marriage.

[socialist_n_TN]

97. I agree......

This is a moral issue that EVERYONE should have spoken out on. Which side are you on?

[Paka]

89. Where have you been?

She is running for President in case you have't noticed!

[cstanleytech]

98. Not even the ones in office are required to share their thoughts.

All they are required to do is their job though I do wish the republicans in congress would grow up and do their job.

[roguevalley]

109. shes in iowa non candidating around. people in positions of influence are obligated to speak out

Against injustice or fuck off. She wasn't in office when she criticized Obama either. She is a coward about this, the woman who let's the press call her a shoe in without disclaiming the remarks. A coward

[juajen]

119. Sorry, I have a pet peeve: It's shoo-in, not shoe.

[leftstreet]

142. I wish she'd just shoo n/t

[magical thyme]

28. well to be fair...

There's a corona...er...an election at stake here.

[KauaiK]

29. I am NOT annoyed...Hillary is making it difficult to support her

[Nye Bevan]

32. Support her for what? She's not running for anything.

Of course if she did decide to run for something in the future I am sure she would make her views known on every issue so that people could decide whether or not to support her.

[KauaiK]

39. Not running....hahahahahahaha

Whew...that's a good one.

[Nye Bevan]

42. OK. You should make a list of everyone who you anticipate might run for office,

and tell everyone on your list that you expect them to make their views known on all the major issues of the day.

[FarPoint]

45. What do you want Hillary to do and say...

Really.... Tell me how you believe her silence harms the current events in Ferguson? That said, I don't want her to speak out yet...

Why should she expose herself to an onslot of GOP fodder without a formal base for political combat? The terms are different during a campaign where matching banter can be employed....If she spoke up now...she is open season.

[starroute]

55. It doesn't harm the people of Ferguson -- it harms her personally

It makes her appear cold, unsympathetic, out of touch, and triangulating.

It could even suggests -- in combination with her criticism of Obama for not intervening in Syria -- that she never met a use of force she didn't like.

That seems like really bad planning on her part.

[FarPoint]

61. I totally disagree.

Its a foolish challenge to even expect Hillary to expose herself to the onslot of hate that will follow. She can serve no benefit at this time by speaking out. This concept is essentially bait....She will be slaughtered by the GOP, teabaggers and gun nuts with the media taunting them along to sell more " news"...No change or difference will arise from her political sacrifice by speaking out.

I'd think the cause could benefit from NFL players speaking out...

[juajen]

121. Not from here it doesn't.

If her opinion made any difference, I would expect her to speak out. We all know that this is an attempt to fence her in. Bill has always said that she is the smart one in the family. Tis true.

[JaydenD]

145. If Bill is the not so smart one, why should we believe him?

I never liked what he said there, it sounds condescending and sexist. It says, 'look, the man is usually the smart one in the family, everyone knows that, but Hillary, she is the odd ball - she is smarter than the man. Isn't she great'.

[Baitball Blogger]

30. I guess the Clinton's ability to triangulate their political image has finally hit a

brick wall.

[ReRe]

81. +1

silence is NOT golden.

[riqster]

33. Completely agree.

[theHandpuppet]

34. I also am very disappointed

Not just for their silence but as you said, that of so many Democrats.

[bigtree]

36. but it's not just THEIR own silence

. . . it's words that many other politicians seem to fear to say; even as they purport to speak to the tragedy and the injustice with empty platitudes; as if hedging their bets on the grand jury or whatever - words that we regularly say with surety and purpose here.

[malaise]

38. Hence this line

Their silence, and the silence from way too many Democrats is not acceptable.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

40. you're not annoying me!

I haven't been very talky, lately....just seems like I have no words to express the deeply sad, tired, fed-up feelings.

[malaise]

44. just seems like I have no words to express the deeply sad, tired, fed-up feelings.

I'm almost there

[BlancheSplanchnik]

58. hugs...back atcha

Yeah...I just am glad to realize the poison is coming to the surface at least. It's ugly but better than remaining hidden, unacknowledged. I'm glad to know I am and always have been for equality, friendship, sharing...in words and action. I'm glad to have friends who think the same.

That's about as wise as I can get right now, I guess......just not much to say at all, in general lately.

[FarPoint]

41. This as a very tenacious issue.

I believe the leadership needs to evolve from within...Expecting Hillary and Bill to jump in is unreasonable.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Has Jimmy Carter made his views known?

Honest question, I Googled and couldn't find anything.

[FarPoint]

46. Excellent point.

[FarPoint]

49. Not to my knowledge.

We could make a very long list of those not speaking out. I haven't heard anything from George Clooney either...Hollywood is rather quiet.... I want to see leadership rise from within...It's an opportunity and we need a young voice to emerge that represents the oppressed.

[pnwmom]

47. You do realize Jimmy Carter is still alive and he hasn't issued a statement either?

If Hillary was speaking out, they'd say she was grandstanding and trying to get attention for her Presidential campaign -- the one she hasn't announced. She'd be criticized here no matter what she did.

[ellenrr]

48. Did I miss where Obama spoke up? nt

[Cali_Democrat]

50. Yes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/running-transcript-obamas-remarks-on-ferguson-mo-and-iraq/2014/08/18/ed29d07a-2713-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

[albino65]

54. They haven't finished balancing the books

to determine if their statements might help or hinder their political goals. I think the Policeman's Benevolent Society and Goldman Sachs hasn't rung in yet.

[Bette Noir]

56. The Clintons are neither pacifists nor liberals.

[happynewyear]

57. Racist slaughter on American soil

and the BIG DOG and the little DOG both look the other way and scream murder when it happens in another country.

Same story different day!

[Enthusiast]

59. I think HRC is trying to gain some crossover appeal to Midwest rednecks.

Bill and Hillary are buying into the, "This is a center—right nation." narrative.

Personally, I believe they are ideologically in this center—right political alignment.

From what I hear them say, they buy into the notion of corporate supremacy, free market ideology and free trade.

It follows that they wouldn't want to rile their potential voters by showing too much sympathy for Michael Brown and Ferguson protesters.

Maybe Bill and Hillary personally sympathize with Ferguson protesters and Michael Brown supporters but they wouldn't want anyone to know it, right now.

I won't vote for HRC under any circumstances anyway.

[RufusTFirefly]

69. Remember how she courted the "hard-working Americans, white Americans" in W. Virginia?

HRC can't alienate her people.

Or perhaps when it comes to things to say about Ferguson, she's flat broke.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. why just her? where are all the 2016 hopefuls, who also opined on I/P?

[99Forever]

65. No annoyance here.

Their silence speaks louder than words. It says nothing new to many of us. It simply reinforces what we already knew.

[RufusTFirefly]

67. They're waiting for Sister Souljah to chime in

Then we'll hear from them.

[wyldwolf]

68. Elizabeth Warren has made a tweet on Fergusan.

One little tweet. And she supports Israel's actions. Next?

[NorthCarolina]

70. Perhaps because they're supporters of Darren Wilson? nt

[Unicorn_Actual]

71. I am withholding judgement until the evidence comes out.

The fact that people are already finding the cop guilty before his trial is worrisome.

[beaglelover]

73. Agree 100% n/t

[arcane1]

74. Many people are already finding the cop innocent.

I'm sure that's equally worrisome.

[Unicorn_Actual]

76. Presuming innocence is not worrisome. Presuming guilt, however, is.

[arcane1]

79. Presuming Brown's guilt is worrisome too n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

100. Who's dead and who's not? Who was armed and who wasn't?.....

Who can kill with impunity and who can't?

[nomorenomore08]

164. +1000

[BuelahWitch]

122. So if the cop didn't shoot him, who did?

There was no other gunfire. The cop is guilty.

[Unicorn_Actual]

152. The question is whether he is guilty of murder, or guilty of defending himself.

[Dragonfli]

155. But wouldn't one have to completely discount the testimony of all

of the eye witnesses to believe in such an absurdity?

[BuelahWitch]

157. *IF* he got any type of injury at all from this (and that's a big if)

*He* was the aggressor. He almost ran over Michael Brown and his friend when he backed up his truck, then *he* pulled Michael Brown into the truck, not the other way around. If he hadn't been so aggressive in the first place, there would have been nothing to "defend."

It's too damn bad they didn't force Darren Wilson to take a drug test after the fact.

[Dragonfli]

154. He acidentaly shot himself six times after beating officer Wilson into a coma, stealing his gun and

running back to the patrol car to finish the job. I heard from Wilson's wife's friend's sister-in-law's hairdresser all about it dontcha know.

[Unicorn_Actual]

194. Bless your heart.

[Dragonfli]

196. I love that phrase, it allows one to disparage another while feigning civility

Often used by hypocrites and those too cowardly to say what they really mean. Bravo! I would say bless your heart as well, but without enough heart to care about the execution of an unarmed teenager that received no presumption of innocence but rather a presumption of guilt complete with execution I doubt there is anything there to bless.

Presumption of innocence only appears to apply to an armed thug hiding behind the blue wall of silence/corruption, but not to an unarmed boy several eyewitnesses reported had surrendered, that being the case in your world, I can only assume in place of where a heart might be resides nothing more than a tin badge.

May you live in interesting times.

[Jester Messiah]

191. Waiting for it to blow over, you mean.

Then everything can go back to biz as usual.

[blackspade]

77. That is a very curious silence.

They just want to figure out which way the wind is blowing.

[DonCoquixote]

80. I agree

But Clinton is trying to please the Reagan Democrats who, whether they are honest or not, really want a White Conservative in the White House. in 2017, except the news and blogs to keep saying "somehting is different, we are back to normal" which is translated to "finally we have that (you know what word) outta the White house!"

[DURHAM D]

82. Forget the Clintons... what did Oprah say?

afaik the only Ferguson she has talked about is Sarah.

[JaydenD]

85. I didn't know Oprah was running for President. wow.

I guess Hillary really hasn't officially either, except that book tour campaign start off and that sudden burst of availability to the media, and her talking crap about the President.. . Naw, it is not what it looks like, we all know the Clintons would never be sneaky and slippery in that way.

[Nye Bevan]

134. So by not announcing her candidacy, and writing a book, she is being "sneaky and slippery"?

Isn't it a little early to expect people to announce for 2016?

[JaydenD]

138. Yes it is early, for everyone else. But if you happen to be a Clinton and hatch books every so often

what convenient timing to get into it without officially declaring is using a book launch as a beard, to get a sense of the mood of people you will be asking to vote for you. Knowing that you have the field all to yourself without any pesky debating or distractions. Pretend it's just about the book, have some PAC bus follow you around, do speeches, jump in with your opinion on matters of the world, but oh no, campaigning, who Meeeee? Her surrogates were yapping and reporting frequently of how wonderful she is and always will be. News outlets were falling all over themselves of how its hers if she wants it! Hers if she wants it!

Excuse me, I must lol.

[U4ikLefty]

92. Yeah, and what about Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods?1!?!1

[JaydenD]

83. Where is Hillary Clinton on Ferguson. article:

http://democratify.com/hillary-clinton-on-ferguson/


Where is Hillary Clinton on Ferguson?
Liberals are starting to wonder...
by Michelle Argento August 22, 2014

Vox has mentioned it. So have The Huffington Post and MSNBC. And the Washington Post. Even Politico is starting to ask the question.

Clinton has not been quiet lately. In promotion of her book Hard Choices, she has barnstormed around the country, attending book release events, hitting the morning and late shows, and even making radio appearances.

But since the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson nearly two weeks ago, Clinton has been silent. Many of her supporters are now asking, “Why?”

Former Democratic presidential candidate Al Sharpton was even more blunt: “Nobody can go to the White House unless they stop by our house and talk about policing,” he said on his MSNBC program late last week.

I think Sharpton hit the nail right on the head. The Clinton silence to suck up to the possible wingers votes will lose them some of the black vote. And rightly so.

[Paka]

86. K&R

I don't dare say more or I'll get blasted!

[WinkyDink]

87. What did Dubya say? Or Jimmy Carter? Or GHWB?

[JaydenD]

91. Hillary has been stuffing her opinions on everything in our faces lately

Cuddling up to the Gaza Killer, dissing the President on foreign policy, making nice nice with the Wall Street Thieves. She put herself in this position, but blame will go elsewhere, of course, let's pick on Jimmy Carter, because that makes perfect sense.

[WinkyDink]

212. Okay, that's it. I mentioned BOTH Bushes, but I'm "picking on" Carter? No; I'm pointing out the

"picking on" of HRC, when NO FORMER PRESIDENT has said a word.

[JaydenD]

213. which of those are campaigning for 2016

and please don't come back with 'but, but, shes not running yet'.

[WinkyDink]

215. I don't believe that ANYthing HRC would say would satisfy you; I've read your above posts.

Maybe Rand Paul?

[JaydenD]

216. Very little of what Hillary says satisfies me, this is true.

When I hear Hillary I hear Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman and John McCain and the merchants of war. I hear silence when it comes to the suffering of people, and especially now the suffering of those in Ferguson and those who are dealing with their own Ferguson in other towns and cities.

I want her to speak out more often so others can finally recognize what I have been hearing - she is unfit for Presidency. Her colossal lack of good judgement and abundance of bad choices on so many things are Repuglican, not Democrat. Let her run the Repuglican ticket. She fits in much better over there.

[JoePhilly]

88. Former SecState comments on Gaza.

Former SecState does not comment on local law enforcement and potential DOJ investigation.

Read those statements a few times try to find the key difference.

[ReRe]

99. You're not annoying me...

... we'll see how the ball bounces when the issue of demilitarizing the police rolls around in Congress and in the debates. There's a special on AJAmerica at 7pm, EDT tonight about Ferguson (Faultlines). I don't know how far they can go in a half hour show, though.

Hill's more into the lucrative foreign policy thing. Seems to have shed her concern for domestic issues since PO appointed her SOS. She used to be all for women's and children's issues, but not so much anymore. She's into her tird-way element, 'doncha know.

[malaise]

102. Check out this video and transcript

http://abc7chicago.com/news/texas-police-pull-mother-and-children-over-at-gunpoint-by-mistake/277874/

Look at the ages of these citizens.

[ReRe]

111. GD it!

A citizen should have recourse when they are falsely stopped or falsely accused. She and her children will be affected by that forever! It's terrorism, by police!

[tea and oranges]

103. The Clintons have always been cautious pols

When HRC finally voiced her support for gay marriage, I took that as a sign that it was a done deal.

If only there was a real Dem to run. . .

[tavernier]

118. Well, I would do it

but I have little money, no one I owe favors, no political connections. I have a pretty good head on my shoulders and a fair sense of right from wrong.

Sadly, We The People, are no longer viable candidates. Only million/billionaires and nut jobs are considered as potential leaders.

Ok, all cynicism aside, we have some very excellent and dedicated leaders in our party, but in order to win a nomination, they have to jump so many hoops and prove that they can collect so many dollars, in the end we don't trust any of them.

And they all understand that.

We just have to hope and trust that the candidate we choose will not lose their basic integrity once they achieve office.

[nilesobek]

133. Your right. And its so demoralizing that the people

think the only answer is a revolution. Makes me wonder why I started caring about politics. My vote doesn't count, AIPAC runs Washington, my country has committed horrific crimes and there is nothing I can do about it.

[hughee99]

105. Perhaps in the ferguson situation, their big money

Benefactors didn't ask them to make a statement

[rock]

107. This case is a matter of law, not politics

What kind of of non-silence would you expect from them? This is not a problem that will be solved by talking. Look at all the speculation here on DU about the case. I was just just saying to mrs rock that for each legal point there's at least three positions presented on DU complete with "evidence". What we need is to proceed with the legalities and solve any short comings through Democratic principles.

[JaydenD]

108. Another Reason to Reject Hillary; AWOL on Ferguson (dailykos)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322667/-Another-Reason-to-Reject-Hillary-AWOL-on-Ferguson#

We can speculate all we want why she's silent, but I contend there are no good reasons, save for her political cowardice calculation that it does not good, except to piss of conservative voters, her MIC patrons, or reveal her unwavering support for being "tough on crime."

Think about it. A hard right Republican is well out in front of Hillary Clinton on race issues, even speaking about it in person at places like progressive bastions like U.Cal. Berkeley for free. Meanwhile, Hillary is giving speeches to UCLA for $300k and University of Buffalo, NY for $225k and telling bankers the public is too hard on them for $400k.

[uwep]

112. Yes, I am annoyed

you claim the Israeli's of slaughtering the Palestinians. Have you not been following the news? Every time a cease fire happens, Hamas fires rockets into Israel. These murders are killing their own people. They are worse than ISIS because these cowards hide behind the innocent. Hamas are a bunch of cowards. They say they want open borders, but what happened in the past when they had open borders? Suicide bombers destroyed restaurants, buses, markets, and public areas, killing many Israeli's and Palestinians. Hamas is a vile organization. You want Bill and Hillary to come out and support Michael Brown, which I believe is their business. To denigrate them for this and use the Palestinians as cover is wrong. I am saddened by the loss of the innocent in Gaza, and I want it to stop. If you have a way that you can get rid of Hamas without killing their shield of innocents, I would like to know. Shall Israel allow their innocents to be slaughtered?

I think that Michael Brown was executed by a police officer and he has a good chance to go free, from everything I have read about the prosecutor in charge, the man that allowed police to fire 21 rounds into two black men in a car. Missouri, from the years going back to the civil war has always been bigoted as has Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee. The good confederate South. The states that prejudice runs rampant.

[LittleBlue]

116. Those two just want power

At this point in time, neither one has anything valuable to offer this nation as a leader.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

117. They don't have to stick their necks out

but I'd like to see individuals who will be running for office tell us where they stand, if simply to deplore the over-militarization of the police and their harsh response to the protestors or to simply urge that both sides exercise restraint and let the legal process run its course. And that goes for any political figure running for office; I'd like to know where they stand NOW when it's hard and not later when it's easier to opine and to see which way the wind is blowing after the controversy blows over.

[malaise]

120. Or leaving the body of the teenager in the street for four hours

I find the silence frightening - and not just from the Clintons

[blkmusclmachine]

123. They're probably too busy wining and dining Blanche Lincoln and other RW DINO's.

Third Way - no way!

[KoKo]

125. Pivot to the Far Right...and then throw Bones to the Left after the Primary

And....All is Good for Them. They are assuming the RW will pick another Palin/McCain Crazy and they KNOW the Dem Left has No Where to Go!'

Triangulation. It's what they were about.

Will we Dems on the Left buy into it once again?

We Will..... Because what or who is the Alternative when Hillary has the whole Dem Power Structure at Her Back?

If anyone has a better scenario ....please post.....

[MoleyRusselsWart]

127. They are shrewd politicians

Speaking out about this has nothing but downside politically. Clinton's are part of the machine, they would never take a moral stand that wasnt proven to be a political winner.

[GeorgeGist]

131. Leadership is waiting ...

for serious coin to drop?

[Stellar]

132. To prove your point...Check Out this Video of Josh Barro on 'Up with Steve Kornacki'

this morning.........

http://www.msnbc.com/up-w-steve-kornacki/watch/what-we-learned-this-week-321338435594

[JEFF9K]

135. Silence is appropriate until the facts come out.

[jillan]

137. They are waiting to find out what they should say. Isn't that how they do things?

[jimlup]

140. Thanks for pointing this out

people forget and paint them as different people than they really are.

[MannyGoldstein]

146. How many times do I need to tell

you proles?

August is VACATION MONTH for us important people. You can't just snap your fingers and get focus groups going, or get the necessary clearances from Wall Street.

Regards,

TWM

[woo me with science]

169. Well, one of the vacation months, anyway. nt

[paleotn]

147. I agree. (nt)

[KG]

151. the clintons. LOL n/t

[eaglerom]

153. Maybe they were golfing together!

I can't believe this commentary

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/opinion/sunday/maureen-dowd-the-golf-address.html

But it is, what it is! Some truth there!

[spanone]

156. you will never annoy me malaise....on the other hand, our nation.....

[IrishAyes]

159. True. K&R.

[akbacchus_BC]

165. Personally, I do not think you are annoying DUers!

Hillary nor Bill are not going to get involved. Plain and simple. Black teens lives are not important to them, sad to say!

It is pathetic but that is how it rolls in America. It is a crime to be black in that country! I would like to say more but you get my drift!

[Enrique]

168. why Brown and not Eric Garner?

she lives in NY, she was a NY senator, why isn't anyone demanding she comment on Eric Garner?

[malaise]

171. Good point

but the Brown situation went 'national' much faster. Leaving that teenager's body in the street was unbearable.
Even that should have been condemned by everyone in the Democratic Party.

[woo me with science]

170. K&R It's a pretty damned clear message.

[Shankapotomus]

173. Maybe we can change her

I wonder if anyone has calmly spoken to Hillary about the difficulties some of her Right leaning policies present to democratic constituents.

You know, the "We love you but you're hurting the people around you" talk.

[chrisa]

174. Don't worry. I'm sure she'll get back to us after the 3 public opinion polls telling her what her

opinion should be.

[whereisjustice]

175. proving to wall street she's tough enough to ignore the non-rich, just like the others before her

[gtar100]

177. Sometimes the correct political position can be hard to calculate.

[harun]

179. She is going to run as the right wing freeptard she is.

[fredamae]

180. They've Made This Ongoing

decades long problem a matter of politics which is, imo A Huge Mistake.

I must wonder if they (collectively over the decades) are afraid of being accused of all of this because it is they who have helped pass the bills to allow LEO this kind of "power of abuse", chipped away at Our rights for redress of these sorts of actions, created New laws, making felons out of otherwise law abiding citizens, maintained the WoD's And used our tax dollars allocated via various budgets to Fund all of it.

The way I see it: The Buck Stops In Congress-and at every State Legislature, POTUS and Governor for having passed and signed into law the various means that have culminated to the current system of a Police State?
We must also bear some of the responsibility for it is "us" who have agreed along the way (mostly) and who have and continue to elect the very officials who have created this mess.
We laughed, discredited, mocked, fought and shunned those who did try to warn us about what was coming: We called them crazy.
If congress owns it, will they be viewed as part of the problem-considered in dereliction of duty by willingly and intentionally inflicting this uncalled for, Unnecessary abuse? Or will they appear too stupid and inept for having Failed to "see the big picture" ie: Understand consequences to the people they serve?
Or will they appear too arrogant for having Ignored our pleas for Justice Reform over these same decades, to STOP this and hold LEO accountable? We have been made, imo totally Irrelevant, by those we hire to serve us in this larger discussion and I'm not at all confident that this has changed by these horrific recent events.
Just a couple months ago-there was a bill to Demilitarize LEO-Here are the Votes (Every Oregon Congresscritter voted Against it Except for Rep Blumenauer...out of 4 Dems and 1 GOP'r)
145 Dems in Congress voted to Keep the Status quo of Militarized Police.
Comforting ain't it?
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll329.xml
In most humble opinion-these "people" owe us an Explanation...Truthful and politics can go to hell.
Or am I completely missing something else?

[malaise]

182. Excellent post

[L0oniX]

181. It really doesn't take much time to say something about it...

so not saying anything about it can only mean that other things are more important for the Clinton's at this time. Seems stupid to me ...since saying something would most likely help their public image depending on what they say. It does give me the idea that they are too busy to be bothered with this.

[Chathamization]

183. Use oppression as an excuse for war while funding oppressive regimes and turning a blind eye to

oppression at home. That seems to be the general mindset of the establishment, though Clinton seems to lean more to the "bomb them to freedom" and "support oppressive regimes" camps than others.

[Sunlei]

185. At least they should push the police to change. To much silence from those who have a voice.

Clinton focused more on vote issues at this years, Civil Rights Summit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/us/politics/on-civil-rights-act-anniversary-bill-clinton-challenges-lawmakers-to-be-bold.html?_r=0

[Tab]

186. That is known as the political third rail.

One touches not.

[H2O Man]

187. I'm not annoyed.

Quite the opposite.

Recommended.

[suffragette]

189. No annoyance from me

I think you make a good point.

[indivisibleman]

197. I think it is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situtation.

But this event is so huge that they should make some statement and let the chips fall where they may.
I personally think that the Michael Brown Shooting is one of the most significant events in my lifetime. I predict it will (should) open up dialogue on the issues of police corruption, police training and procedures, injustice against blacks, white privilege, white prejudice against people of color, class privilege, racism and equal representation by governing bodies.

[malaise]

198. I hope you're right

but I'm not as optimistic

[indivisibleman]

199. I hear ya

so I looked up meet-up groups and social justice groups in my area and found only social justice groups. I will start there and see what they are doing.

[tiredtoo]

200. The Ferguson situation is currently a third rail type thing

Best to avoid any mention of it for political reasons. Do not want to fire up the tea baggers.
And the op does not annoy me in the least.

[BlueStreak]

205. It was just black people, after all. Not like it was real people.

That was sarcasm in case anybody is so dense to not recognize that.

I completely agree with your point. When politicians are involved it comes down to a calculation. None of these people are grounded in any real values. I'll give Obama credit for at least taking a baby step and mentioning that this is partially a consequence of the arms industry pushing the used gear out to the states and cities so they can sell more shiny new killing equipment to the Pentagon.

But that isn't the only cause. Part of it is that we have put hundreds of thousands of people through conscience-numbing wars, and guess where a lot of these soldiers end up? Yes, in your local police force. To one of these conscience-numbed veterans, a crazy guy with a steak knife looks like somebody you have to pump 10 bullets into.

This is sick on every level.

[BlueStreak]

203. There were TWO cold-blooded slayings in Ferguson, not one.

[malaise]

207. The silence on the slaughter of the mentally ill is even more disturbing

and that is from the vast majority of humanity

[BlueStreak]

223. I don't know if he was mentally ill or high, but I do know

It was not necessary to pump 10 bullets into him, considering he was already on the ground when half of them struck him.

It is shameful that people can get themselves whipped up into a frenzy about Brown, when we really don't know those circumstances, yet remain completely silent on Powell when we know exactly what happened in his case.

I don't get the value system here. It is OK to gun down a guy who is disturbed or possibly high and keep shooting him dead when he is no threat to the cops?

Everybody who has spoken out on the Brown situation and not the Powell situation needs to take a hard look in the mirror. What are the values here?