General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRand Paul Poll
33 votes, 10 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions to the left of the Third Way pulls Democrats to the left and that is a good thing. | |
23 (70%) |
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I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions to the left of the Third Way pulls Democrats to the left and that is a bad thing. | |
0 (0%) |
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I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions makes one a Paul-bot. | |
10 (30%) |
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10 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Rockyj
(538 posts)What is Third Way? Sounds like BIBBLE stuff!
This is what I think of Rand Paul:
[link:
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)that have been on DU lately.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)to be be 'to the left' on various issues, when in reality he's got some batty RW reason for whatever he's doing or saying.
We simply cannot cede the 'populist mantle' to a republican and run a wall street candidate without serious risk in a Presidential election that should be a walk off for Dems demographically.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Soon you will see your post as an example of "an influx of Paul supporters".
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)some positions that sound like he's "to the left."
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)Whatever process is occurring relative to Hillary, I can't fathom anyone at Democratic Underground not having the capacity to pretty clearly understand this vapid little POS is spinning something in some way where on the SURFACE he is taking a "left leaning position" when at the core whatever position he is taking is purposefully directed toward this aim of a the fantastical libertarian dream world.
I get having an issue with Hillary, I DO NOT get in any way, shape or form legitimizing this pukebag.
That said ... Yeah, the people of this country are THAT stupid that you cant' rule out 50.01 percent gobbling even his bullshit up.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)FSogol
(45,481 posts)rurallib
(62,411 posts)irisblue
(32,971 posts)they are a curse on this country
Javaman
(62,521 posts)Fuck his daddy too.
Cha
(297,196 posts)http://aattp.org/rachel-maddow-exposes-tea-party-racist-rand-pauls-civil-rights-act-lies-video/
Dark n Stormy Knight http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5441197
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)At the end of the day - he hangs with the Klan.
Cha
(297,196 posts)Thank you, thank you very much, stonecutter.
Number23
(24,544 posts)conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Is that a problem, too?
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)That's overlap.
There are plenty of "Centrist" Democrats who agree with Cheney on a host of economic and foreign policy issues.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)SO ANY LIBERAL AGREE WITH THAT?
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,956 posts)But we're paying for yours Randy.
Rex
(65,616 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)a recently deceased mange-ridden wombat.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Thanks.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)TNNurse
(6,926 posts)What is his position on air and by that I mean oxygen?
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Legalization of pot? No. That's pretty widespread these days.
His 'anti-war' rhetoric comes from his desire to be an isolationist. Calling an isolationist "anti-war" is like calling a Klan member "pro-Anglo culture" it's a total misrepresentation.
Sure, he opposes military intervention in foreign wars, but not out of a sense of decency or pacifism; he would also withdraw from the UN (including humanitarian and peacekeeping operations, foreign aid would disappear, and if you think "unstable" regions are bad now, imagine what they would be like with the double-edged sword of multinational (read: US) corporate interests moving unchecked throughout the developing world AND an absence of monitored unilateral military involvement in those regions. Paul's position isn't one of altruism; it's one of isolationism. Not that I'm an advocate of First World military involvement in foreign problems, but look at what isolationism has netted in the past.
It is not 'more progressive'.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Your point on isolationism is an excellent one. Just a little critical thinking / examination and one gets to the motives behind Pauls rhetoric, and they aren't consistent with traditional liberal thinking.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Nearly three weeks after introducing a bill to legalize recreational marijuana, state Rep. Melissa Sargent, D-Madison, has attracted six co-sponsors, all Democrats.
Joining Sargents pot proposal in the Assembly are Reps. Terese Berceau and Brett Hulsey of Madison, Rep. Sondy Pope of Cross Plains, Rep. Fred Clark of Baraboo and Rep. Tod Ohnstad of Kenosha.
The lone Senate co-sponsor is Sen. Nikiya Harris of Milwaukee.
Sargent acknowledges that the support her bill has garnered does not reflect the influence necessary to get majority support from her own partys caucus, let alone the Republican-controlled Legislature.
But she thinks its a good start in the long-term campaign to realize a policy that was recently implemented in Colorado and Washington state.
Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/writers/jack_craver/seven-state-legislators-support-wisconsin-marijuana-legalization/article_5346165e-9360-11e3-a70d-001a4bcf887a.html#ixzz3BRbJnoz6
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... that she wouldn't sign a bill to legalize pot if it got to her desk.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)TBF
(32,056 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)does not prove he is NOT an idiot. Even idiots can accidentally be right once in a while. But they are still idiots.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)eg: Raygun, Busch, or any Busch (Yeah, I know)
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)leftstreet
(36,107 posts)I've seen no evidence, but the accusations keep flying
A poll is a good thing
Orrex
(63,208 posts)I'm not saying that Scuba posted this poll in response to my thread, merely that the poll came after that thread.
I asserted that a statement highlighting Rand Paul's strengths in opposition to HRC's perceived weaknesses ultimately serves as a statement in support of Paul. It doesn't mean that the poster is campaigning for Paul or that Paul is identified as a better candidate across the board, but pointing out his supposed strengths gives him credibility that he frankly doesn't deserve.
Scuba's poll quite reasonably seeks to explore this, to see how others interpret the discussion of Paul's perceived strengths.
My $0.02.
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)...some republican candidates, then they will serve to convince a number of democrats to stay home on election day because "there's not a paper thin difference between the parties". That's a common excuse for not voting as it is for a large number of democrats, a bloc that is famous for not participating in elections.
While implied Rand Paul supporters and HRC detractors may assure us they'll vote for the democrat regardless of who wins the nomination, one has to consider how they affect cynics who already see voting akin with getting a root canal.
There is an incredible democratic-thinking majority in this country. The problem is they don't vote. One only has to look at the local government in Ferguson MO to see the consequences of such voter apathy. Republicans, on the other hand, are taught by their conservative fathers to vote every time, even if it's just for the proverbial dog catcher. They'll show up to faithfully vote for the republican dog catcher.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)...some republican candidates, then they will serve to convince a number of democrats to stay home on election day because "there's not a paper thin difference between the parties". "
Isn't it incumbant on the candidates to actually be different enough so there's no confusion? It shouldn't be too hard to be different from the Republicans for crying out loud.
Your Ferguson example falls flat. The entire town has been turned into felons and fugitives by an out-of-control police force, for the express purpose of keeping them from voting.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416747
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)..but Rand Paul reminds me of the 21st century Ralph Nader. He's a stated republican, sure, but he's been pandered recently as some sort of third choice, appealing to both the left & the right. I can respect ideals, but convincing people to consider a third party or even a republican is how we got GW Bush in 2000. Had it not been for Nader, there would have been no Supreme Court decision. Your strong convictions may make you proud, but they handily serve to seat republicans in office.
As for Ferguson, I don't believe it's a chicken or the egg problem. The police dept was organized by minority whites entrenched in office to maintain their interests. It's impossible to blame that situation on anything other than the consequenses of long term voter apathy. I'm sure there are many well qualified candidates among the majority population, and a landslide of votes available, but no one has apparently cared until this month. Hopefully, those people will realize a change soon, and it won't come from a hot summer protest. It never does.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)The 14% are a loud bunch.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)attracts flies, the flies produce maggots,
the maggots eat the shit, so a bowl
of horseshit is a good thing, and also
it makes other things smell nicer.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)should be the model we use for comparing/contrasting democrats. By now, it's clear that Hillary is not that good at campaigning, and she's way too hawkish when it comes to foreign policy; but I do NOT want to see Rand's name floating around as the superior guy. He's just a snake who'll say anything to weasel his way into the White House so that he can enact his right wing, white supremacist ideology.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)just like Hillary
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I don't get this poll. He's a raving populist right-wing maniac.
johnp3907
(3,730 posts)I'm so sick of this crap. Wanting to decriminalize drugs so R. J. Reynolds and Coors can sell them passes for leftist?
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)0rganism
(23,945 posts)as his handful of progressive positions (mostly foreign policy and drug legalization) do constitute the exception to the norm of his extremely right-wing views on economics, social programs, and racial equality, among other things. this annoys DUers aware of his overall record, and leads to claims of disruption against the "issue raiser" implicit in the OP's poll, which may or may not be the case (more often than not, lately). DU does suffer from some dogmatic rigidity, but it is not an uninformed dogma.
OldRedneck
(1,397 posts)Rand Paul is a nutcase who appeals to nutcases.
caraher
(6,278 posts)I think the correct answer is in post #4, with the long form in post #33
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)Nearly every libertarian principle follows that fundamental creed.
Libertarians universally believe that personal success is the only means to survival and decry government intervention in any way, whether it's regulatory or social safety nets. One can't pick & choose which libertarian mantra they wish to support when it always comes down to that one defining belief. You get the good with a lot of bad, and Rand Paul has plenty of the latter.
Personally, I believe the government does more for me than it does to me.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)This poll will either allow Paulbots to out themselves or provide cover when they deny being one.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)A snark by those who cannot accept the fact that others may differ with them on whether Hillary Clinton should be the Democratic nominee.
It's a pretty pitiful attempt to shame very smart people into following a misguided crowd.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)He's a right wing nutjob who takes positions that appear to be liberal, only because he thinks it will help him get other extreme right positions overlooked.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)which is the goal.
The man is for no restrictions on big business and Wall Street. He is a shit bag racist, misogynist, and homophobe. The only reason to support Rand is if one shares those values. The only place that pushes the Democratic Party is to the right, toward the interests of the few over the majority of Americans. People who hold such values support candidates who likewise do.
Pretending there is anything leftist about that is a bastardization of the term. I am sick to fucking death of people excusing a view of politics focused entirely on the privileged few as leftist. When people show they have no concern with the majority of Americans, they make clear there is nothing leftist about them. The left is Marx. It's socialism. It's not Rand Paul, David Duke and the Aryan Nation.
People seem determined to advance libertarianism above social justice. Just be fucking honest about it and stop claiming there is anything leftist about it. This Ayn Rand view of politics is the opposite of leftist. To claim there is anything leftist about such views is to engage in the Big Lie that promotes the interests of capital and the privileged above the common good.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Some of his libertarian positions come across as similar to things we support, but note that these are for other reasons and would not be considered actual leftist thought.
His economic philosophy is so anti-leftist that it's laughable to even claim he's to the left of any Democrat. He makes Zell freakin' Miller look like Trotsky.
underpants
(182,788 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)they might buy his snake oil if they fixate on a single issue or two.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Add that and I'll vote
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)I presume you mean "holds some positions to the left of Third Way", but your wording is currently ambiguous - it looks as if you could mean "his overall positions are to the left of Third Way", which I doubt many people could vote for without collapsing in laughter. And "I think reporting that Rand Paul holds positions makes one a Paul-bot" makes the poll like a complaint that people are called a Paul-bot for just talking about him, rather than a genuine poll. Was that meant to be "holds some positions to the left of Third Way" too? The number of 'other' votes you've got indicates high dissatisfaction with the poll options.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... understanding of logic to get that it means some positions.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)Both are 'logical'. If you don't specify, then you get loads of people (about a third) saying 'other'.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)This is why I think your reading comprehension isn't doing well, as well as your way of wording your questions. It's your English that's a problem, not logic.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)A person can believe in far socially libertarian views, like legalization of drugs, and still be economically right wing, as is the case with Paul. I dislike intensely economic libertarianism, but I would like to see ending the drug war become a mainstream Democratic plank.