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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFox News Panel: Rape Victims Need To Take ‘Personal Responsibility’ For Drinking Too Much
A Fox News panel on Wednesday agreed that women needed to take personal responsibility for avoiding rape by not drinking too much. During an interview on the Diane Rehm Show last week, former George Washington University President Stephen Joel Trachtenberg argued that women should be trained not to drink in excess so they could be in a position to punch the guys in the nose if they misbehave.
Trachtenberg later insisted that he was not trying to shift blame to the victim. On Thursdays edition of Outnumbered, Fox News host Jedediah Bila asked guest host Lou Dobbs if there was anything controversial about what Trachtenberg had said.
I dont think so, Dobbs said. As a father of two sons, two daughters, I will tell you, the last thing you want is any child a boy, a girl, it doesnt matter to be defenseless. And if you dont teach your kids and pray that they learn to never, ever take on additional vulnerability to everyday life in this society, why should there be anything controversial about it?
Losing control of oneself, exposing oneself and creating tremendous vulnerability is, to me, a disastrous choice for anyone to make, he added. Co-host Harris Faulkner agreed that personal responsibility was very important in all of this. No one is blaming the woman, she explained. Its not like back in the day when they would blame us for what we had on. I dont really see it that way. But I think if youre going to watch out for a predator, you want to be able to do it in a sober eyes-wide-open manner. And you cant do that if youve been drinking.
To put yourself in a vulnerable position, and to be drinking on top of that, its the opposite of good sense.
At that point, co-host Liz Claman reminded the panel that the discussion had left out the mans role in preventing rape.
This professor left out two words: also guys, she noted. Guys shouldnt be drinking so much that they lose control or their ability to focus
You dont manage your message through gender, thats the stupidest thing in the world. Guys lose control too.
Co-host Andrea Tantaros recalled that her college put all the guys in some kind of box, already guilty. You see a lot of girls getting assaulted and raped when theyre drunk, she continued. But [Trachtenberg] could have also added a number of pointers, which is, dont walk home by yourself." http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/03/fox-news-panel-rape-victims-need-to-take-personal-responsibility-for-drinking-too-much/
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)because men can't control their hormones. Sorry for walking down the street alone, sorry for having a bit much too drink my fault not yours.
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)pissed him off by burning his dinner while changing the baby and letting the dog out while doing the laundry, he would not have HAD to beat her.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)she uses bad language, or if she isn't married after the age of 18 or if she even thinks of flirting with anyone ever or if blah blah blah blah.
Let's make it simple- we should teach men that 'NO means NO' - end of discussion.
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)Response to appleannie1 (Reply #1)
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leftstreet
(36,112 posts)That would probably 'reduce the risk of becoming a victim'
Plus it would be good for liquor and gun sales
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)kiawah
(64 posts)I told her not to lose control of herself and not allow herself to get in a bad situation.
Any person, both men and women, need to exercise common sense and learn to protect themselves.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)no means no. any guy who has to have SEX with a drunk women is a loser.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)is a rapist.
Tikki
(14,559 posts)Can't go to the corner store alone because that is an open invitation to follow her home.
Can't meet with the Professor or TA alone in a room because some say...
Can't go swimming at the school pool or workout at the school gym...unless you are wearing a track suit in both cases.
Of course students shouldn't drink until they pass out..most don't, but if it should happen do we
want the ...'well, she did pass out and all' squad waiting for those moments when they come upon just that
situation or should we teach young men to respect themselves and others and not to rape...
Not raping seems like common sense to me...
Tikki
Response to Tikki (Reply #11)
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AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)It is NOT a woman's fault if she gets raped whether while drunk, or completely. Ever. No, the blame for the rape lies squarely on the man who chose to take advantage of her in the first place.
Heaven forbid that this is 2014..... And this, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another reason I've become a feminist.
rocktivity
(44,577 posts)Period.
rocktivity
Response to rocktivity (Reply #7)
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LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Really?
Do we just skip that message or we just tell men that if they are horny they should just go find some drunk women and it's all ok
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)athenasatanjesus
(859 posts)Don't smash yourself in the head repeatedly with a giant mallet before choosing which station to watch.
alp227
(32,052 posts)She should've shouted down the GWU prez after the remarks.
Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)... conflated the concept of common sense - i.e., don't drink to the point of losing control of your faculties - with the notion that doing so somehow absolves someone else of THEIR responsibility for taking advantage of you. That's what this panel seems to have done. "She drank too much at a party, what did she think was going to happen..." WTF?
EVERY teenager should be taught that its not a good idea to drink yourself into unconsciousness because (A) there are assholes out there who will take advantage of you, and (B through N) (insert a dozen other good, health and safety related reasons to avoid this behavior) ...
AND, everyone should also be taught - just as emphatically - that no means no, and unconscious is the same as "no", and don't be the asshole in the above paragraph.
Why does one concept have to cancel out or negate the other in the tiny, narrow minds of the right wing commentatorazzi? Why can't both be legitimate and worthwhile on their own?
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)should NOT dress if they don't want raped. I honestly believe they are told to wear their skirts clear up to their butts because that is what draws the old men in the first place. It keeps the rating up among their evil minded base. It is sort of like the choir preaching.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Every person in a civilized society has the right to not be violated, regardless of their location and/or level of intoxication.
The kind of thought expressed in the OP is abhorrent.
-Laelth
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)this stupid advice and punches her rapist in the nose?? We're going to have a lot more seriously harmed, or killed, rape victims because the rapist got enraged and had to PROVE how much more power they had.
Fathers (and mothers) need to talk to their boys starting at a young age and teach them that it is NEVER acceptable to force a woman to have sex, nor is it acceptable for them to take advantage of a woman who is too drunk to know what she's doing and especially wrong to have sex (rape) a woman who is passed out drunk. NO means NO, period. We *do* need to teach our daughters to be aware of their surroundings and to try to always have a friend with them. I don't mean that to sound sexist, but it is a fact of life. There are predators out there who would think nothing of attacking a very drunk, or passed out, female. They *should* have the *right* to get their party on as much as they want to, without have to worry about some scumbag taking advantage of them.
As for rapists... just as I've ALWAYS said on here... they need to be castrated with a dull, rusty butter knife... they'll never rape again, will they??
Just my 2 cents worth....
Ghost