My Quick 2 Cents On The Liberal/Progressive/Centrist/Status-Quo Dem Divides...

[WillyT]

Certainly after the stolen 2000 election, and the subsequent Shrub years... we were desperate for a Democratic President. When we got one, we were thrilled, and fairly "protective" of the idea.

And many became Ultra-Loyalists... hey... I voted for him both times, but any loyalty I may have had for ANY politician tends to fade soon after an election.

Also... DU through it's own polls tends to skew to the older voters in number, and with age many get more conservative than in their youths...

But my main problem is that the Right-Wing has pushed the country so far to the right, that it's hard to find Democrats of a Liberal 60s/70s mold... they still exist but are far fewer than they used to be in the party.

So were left with a Republican Party that is now bat-shit insane and dangerous, and a Democratic Establishment that is more in line with the 1980's Republican Party/Reagan Democrats coalition.

[villager]

1. Exactly. Our current choices now are "The Republicans" (formerly: Democrats) and "John Birchers"

(formerly: Republicans).

Any "old school"-style Democrat is now an "Independent Socialist" or some such, and will often get ridiculed on "Democratic" sites for the hubris of calling out Republicans-in-Dem clothing...

[blkmusclmachine]

2. "Centrists" are now fully Republican-lite. A true liberal/progressive is nowhere to be found in DC!

[JI7]

3. i don't know , when i think of the old days i think of how shitty life would have been like

for certain people..

[JI7]

4. what was wrong with russ Feingold ?

too pro israel so not acceptable for some ?

[WillyT]

6. Nothing... But... You Named Just One... And He Ain't There Anymore...

There was a time when you could count many more...

You'd actually run out of fingers.

[JI7]

8. why isn't he there anymore ?

[WillyT]

9. Because Once Reliably Liberal Wisconsin, Where The Labor Movement Was HUGE, And...

Dominant... was slowly seduced (conned) by the Right-Wing into buying trickle-down economics and RW Culture War BS over the last few decades... and Russ (and Wisconsin) paid the price. As has the country in general

[JI7]

10. wisconsin voted for Nixon all 3 times he ran and Reagan both times

i don't see how it use to be some great liberal state. they seem more swing state with recent years leaning more towards dems in pres races.

[Scuba]

12. He got caught in the teabilly wave of 2010. Note that in 2012 Wisconsin elected the ...

... "Madison liberal lesbian" to the Senate (Tammy Baldwin, as described by right-wingers here).


We vote progressive when progressives run. That's why Walker beat Tom Barrett twice and will beat Mary Burke next month - they're both too conservative to inspire Wisconsin progressives.

[JI7]

13. contradiction

"We vote progressive when progressives run"

so why didn't people vote for Feingold when he ran ?

[Scuba]

15. As I explained in my post, he got caught in the teabilly wave of 2010.

[JaneyVee]

5. Because our politicians are dinosaurs...

Millenials will veer this country much further left.

[WillyT]

7. True Dat !!!

[Scuba]

11. Then there's this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101674947

Americans are more liberal than either Republican or Democratic pols realize

When we compare what legislators believe their constituents want to their constituents’ actual views, we discover that politicians hold remarkably inaccurate perceptions. Pick an American state legislator at random, and chances are that he or she will have massive misperceptions about district views on big-ticket issues, typically missing the mark by 15 percentage points.

What is more, the mistakes legislators make tend to fall in one direction, giving U.S. politics a rightward tilt compared to what most voters say they want. As the following figures show, legislators usually believe their constituents are more conservative than they actually are. Our attitude measurements are most accurate on the questions about same sex marriage and universal health insurance – and in both instances the legislators’ guesses about their constituents’ views were 15-20 percent more conservative, on average, than the true public support for same-sex marriage or universal health care present in their districts.

[Andy823]

14. I agree to a point

Yes it would be great to find democrats who could actually work for the people, but both parties have to work together like they used to for the well being of the country, now days that just won't happen so we end up with nothing because nobody will agree on anything. Republicans now simply want to do away with everything we have gained over the years and take us back to their idea of "the good old days" which pretty much means help the rich and to hell with everyone else.

The reason it works for them is their base is gullible and actually believe that the corporations are good and if they don't have to pays so much tax or follow regulations, there will be more jobs, which is plain hogwash, but they fall for it anyway.

As was stated down this thread, we have to stop putting the "old timers" back in office and start finding new faces who actually will do something about the problems we have. For me, and I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, it's about trying to accomplish something instead of getting nothing all the time. I do think president Obama has done a good job considering the fact republicans, from day one, have been out to stop him for doing anything. I know there is a lot more that needs to be done, but George W. Bush had 8 years to pretty much ruin this country, and it will take years past president Obama 's time in office to fix a lot of that mess. Of course if we don't keep republicans from gaining more power, especially the WH in 2016, things could get a lot worse with them in power.

[L0oniX]

16. Democrats of the liberal 60s/70s turned their backs on that & opted for plastic and establishment.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Actually, no we didn't.

Look around and tell me who's running the homeless shelters, the soup kitchens, the food pantries, the women's shelters -- we've not gone anywhere and we're STILL not voting for corporate shills no matter which party they come from.

[KoKo]

17. Love Ya! "Willy T" but don't go along with bashing segments of population by Age

race or weight or lifestyle to fit with an agenda to promote voting for one or the other. We Dems need to be beyond that. Again...LOVE YA....but...

.... I don't go down that road and get sad when I see others segment us Dems out by those definitions which don't really address the real/core problems we Dems have going forward because it ignores how we really targeted folks with name calling and that's how we lost a bunch of people who could have been with us...if we didn't attack them and make it seem we were better than they are. We Dems stopped focusing on Commonalities and focused on Differences. We lost our way there. When one of us is abused then we should find commonalities of how all us are being abused. Not discounting real challenges of Blacks/Hispanics/GLBT/Women's Issues...but the COMMONALITY of what's Good for All... and we need to focus on that and not let Repubs divide us with issues which are good for NONE of US. As they segmented us out and we fought back by segmenting out groups of Dems on Issues...and not on Fighting for Fairness and Equality for ALL all the TIME!

I was a big fan of Joe Bageant's Books...and I still believe he saw what many of us Dems have ignored.

"Deer Hunting With Jesus" and his other books. I wish he and Molly Ivans were still alive.

Amazon Link with Reviews for "Deer Hunting With Jesus."

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307339378/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3522574283&ref=pd_sl_953mrrihls_b

[JEB]

18. Yeah I'm 62 and to the left of Fidel.

Generally vote Democratic because so far there ain't anything better. The Democratic Party's drift rightward does not inspire enthusiasm. So when it comes right down to it,"the lesser evil" strategy does still seem to work for now. Sooner or later it will not be enough.

[KoKo]

19. Agree..."sooner or later"...but, sooner is coming fast.

We've done this "lesser evil too much" and it's getting old. Need new tactics. Don't know what they are yet, though.

[JEB]

21. My family had a saying

"Shit or get off the pot". Seems to me the Democratic party could use that bit of wisdom to their advantage.

[WillyT]

20. LOL !!! - I'll Be 59 Exactly One Month From Today... Left There With Ya !!!

[Bluenorthwest]

23. I'm slightly younger.

When we were born, people like me faced jail, psych wards, beatings and had no legal protections of any kind. So when I see folks who also promote hard core anti gay religious figures pinning for the days of my oppression, it sends a very strong message.
You should not be surprised when that message is heard.

[MineralMan]

24. Each election is unique. In each election, we have a choice.

We may not like either choice, but not voting means that those who do vote make the decision for that election.

Not voting in a particular election affects neither the previous elections nor future elections. In each election, we make decisions that affect how things go for 2, 4 or 6 years. The one thing that is clear is that almost all elections are between Democrats and Republicans. The candidate from one of those parties wins.

I'm sorry, but any Democratic candidate will vote more progressively than any Republican candidate. If the Republican win, we get regressive, obstructive governance. If the Democrat wins, we get another vote for progress, at least on some legislation.

Not voting is still a choice, but it's always the wrong choice. It will do nothing to advance our government toward progressivism. It will do the exact opposite if the Democratic candidate loses.

GOTV 2014 and Beyond!

[riqster]

26. ^^^This^^^^

" If the Republican win, we get regressive, obstructive governance. If the Democrat wins, we get another vote for progress, at least on some legislation."

Truth.

[wyldwolf]

25. "DU through it's own polls tends..."

DU polls ALWAYS skew 'progressive.' Which is why some here are always so surprised when reality proves DU polls wrong.

[riqster]

27. True. Confirmation bias is something to watch for.

Especially when the sample is weighted in any direction.

[DirkGently]

28. All the half-sane Republicans are becoming Democrats.

The Republican Party has become the victim of its own propaganda, in my opinion. All they ever really wanted before was a general protection of the status quo and entrenched power structures.

And all the money, of course.

Then they discovered the power of cultural warfare. Newt Gingrich didn't invent it, but he raised hating "liberals" -- as opposed to debating liberal vs. conservative policies -- to a new level.

And it worked. They couldn't win when they were stuck arguing that pollution is good and taxing the wealthy was bad, but boy, does a certain segment of the population hate hippies and protesters and smartypants college professors and journalists.

Once they got that rolling, facts really didn't matter anymore. No one actually thinks pollution isn't heating the atmosphere or that poor people have it too easy, or that educators, journalists and scientists are all motivated by "bias." But it's become a simple-minded cheering exercise, so the more extreme and liberal-infuriating the idea, the better.

But then some conservatives begain to actually believe the crazy-town extremist stuff. H.W. Bush is an old-school oligarch, and he actually laughed at True Believer Reagan's "voodoo" trickle-down economics. What Republican would even think of arguing against "making the rich richer solves all problems" today?

So now they're a bit stuck. Their most popular figures are the Palins and Ryans and Cruzes. Wackadoos with Fluffernutter upstairs who think Ayn Rand was a "philosopher," blastocysts are people, and skyrocketing C02 levels are "good for the plants."

They have become so extreme they can't nominate anyone smart enough to pull off clever corruption anymore.

Republicans will probably dial it back, eventually, but in the meantime, the left is getting diluted with people who still think corporations are people, and that they can help Democrats come around to a more reasonable point of view where the rich still run everything and everyone and we still spend most of our money trying to micromanage Middle Eastern countries through warfare, and pollution is still pretty much okay, but maybe some progress on social issues is permitted, here and there.

Just give Wallstreet your retirement fund and your home and your future, and we'll see what we can do.

We can do better.

[WillyT]

29. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

[DirkGently]

30. I always enjoy your threads, WillyT.

Keep 'em coming.

[WillyT]

31. Thanks !!!