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whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:07 AM Oct 2014

CNN actually did some real journalism on ebola and public health policy

First, we have a Dallas prosecutor threatening to arrest Thomas Duncan for being sick while black.

Then, poor Nina Pham is being attacked for "a breach of protocol ". Goddamn it, could you be more insulting to our underpaid, overworked nursing staff? These people are real-life heroes!

Perhaps CNN got to a bit closer to the truth and our collective responsibility to make sure our government is motivated by public heath rather than protecting the profit margins of our health care industry.

When I read the steps below, disturbingly obvious, it was with profound sadness that we are so poorly prepared for something like this. In our own lifetimes we may witness a post antibiotic world where infections no longer respond to standard treatment. We are not prepared in the least. Just replace "ebola" with "infectious disease".

We Need to Stop Scapegoating!

If there is blame, it isn't Thomas Duncan or Nina Pham. It is the arrogance of something known as American exceptionalism. It's the same thing that keeps fueling our idiotic wars, drug violence, gun violence, poverty and debt. We lavish all of America's resources on the rich at the expense of the broader good, then blame those least able to defend themselves when the shit hits the fan.

The below is paraphrased from CNN.

Ebola: Five ways the CDC got it wrong
By Elizabeth Cohen, Senior Medical Correspondent
updated 5:03 PM EDT, Mon October 13, 2014

1. The CDC is telling possible Ebola patients to "call a doctor."
When passengers arrive in the United States from Liberia, Sierra Leone or Guinea, they're handed a flier instructing them to "call a doctor" if they feel ill.

We saw how well that worked at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas. On September 25, the hospital sent a feverish Thomas Eric Duncan home even though he had told them he'd recently been to Liberia.

One way to do it differently: Set up a toll free number for returning passengers that would reach a centralized office, which would then dispatch a local ambulance to get the patient to a hospital.

The hospital would be warned that a possible Ebola patient is on the way, and the patient would not be brought through the main emergency room.

That's the idea of Gavin Macgregor-Skinner, an assistant professor at Penn State's Department of Public Health Sciences.

2. The CDC director says any hospital can care for Ebola patients.
"I think it's very unfortunate that he keeps re-stating that," said Macgregor-Skinner, the global projects manager for the Elizabeth R. Griffin Foundation.

He said when it comes to handling Ebola, not all hospitals are created equally. As seen at Presbyterian, using protective gear can be tricky. Plus, it's a challenge to handle infectious waste from Ebola patients, such as hospital gowns contaminated with blood or vomit.

Dr. Michael Osterholm, an infectious disease epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota, said some hospitals have more experience with infectious diseases and consistently do drills in how to deal with biohazards.

"If you were a burn unit patient, wouldn't you want to go to a burn unit?" he said.

3. The CDC didn't encourage the "buddy system" for doctors and nurses.
Under this system, a doctor or nurse who is about to do a procedure on an Ebola patient has a "buddy," another health care worker, who acts as a safety supervisor, monitoring the worker from the time he puts on the gear until the time he takes it off.

The "buddy system" has been effective in stopping other kinds of infections in hospitals.

4. CDC didn't encourage doctors to develop Ebola treatment guidelines.
At Sunday's press conference, Frieden hinted that Presbyterian might have performed two measures -- inserting a breathing tube and giving kidney dialysis -- that were unlikely to help Duncan. He described them as a "desperate measure" to save his life.

"Both of those procedures may spread contaminated materials and are considered high-risk procedures," he said. "I'm not familiar with any prior patient with Ebola who has undergone either intubation or dialysis."

Osterholm said CDC should coordinate with medical groups to come up with treatment guidelines.

5. The CDC put too much trust in protective gear.
Once Duncan was diagnosed, health authorities started making daily visits to 48 of his contacts.

But that didn't include several dozen workers at Presbyterian who took care of Duncan after he was diagnosed. They weren't followed because they were wearing protective gear when they had contact with Duncan. Instead, they monitored themselves.

Public health experts said that was a misstep, as the CDC should have realized that putting on and taking off protective gear is often done imperfectly and one of the workers might get an infection.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-cdc/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

One thing I noticed is that workers in Liberia spray each other down with disinfectant before removing protective gear. With the buddy system in place, that just seems to make sense.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CNN actually did some real journalism on ebola and public health policy (Original Post) whereisjustice Oct 2014 OP
Yes, it's all the CDC's fault, that a hospital in Texas... SidDithers Oct 2014 #1
Presbyterian does not have even a Level IV Trauma Center. Downwinder Oct 2014 #2
Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #3
And you can guarantee that the protocol was followed perfectly... SidDithers Oct 2014 #4
perhaps you can come down from canada and monitor them and make sure they are behaving... whereisjustice Oct 2014 #8
Canada, particularly Toronto, will be prepared if we do get a patient... SidDithers Oct 2014 #12
lol - when we need help from canada, you'll be the last one we call, given your history whereisjustice Oct 2014 #14
... SidDithers Oct 2014 #16
I think most Canadians don't believe in zombies or live in igloos. whereisjustice Oct 2014 #17
Even if we hadn't had that second Ebola case, that article offers some excellent suggestions. pnwmom Oct 2014 #23
I have a sneaking suspicion most that TEXAS hospital staff kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #6
profit comes first, administrators freely admit this, however, people in health care generally whereisjustice Oct 2014 #11
There's more than the scent of a straw man in your post. pnwmom Oct 2014 #22
I've noticed the word "breach" being interpreted as "violation" Midnight Writer Oct 2014 #5
Yep. Where are the folks hollering about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY now, kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #7
Exactly right. Recall Reagan's response to AIDS Midnight Writer Oct 2014 #15
I agree, but we have to be sure before we expose health care workers to infectious disease whereisjustice Oct 2014 #18
The CDC did not say there was a "violation" of protocol Midnight Writer Oct 2014 #19
The exact quote is here. And it was irresponsible. whereisjustice Oct 2014 #20
Yes, I stand corrected Midnight Writer Oct 2014 #27
As a doctor he blew it. I would argue if he had stuck to the medicine and whereisjustice Oct 2014 #30
And states' rights - Texas is huge on states' rights, so they have kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #9
no, a breach in the protocol means someone didn't do what they should have done TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #21
Thanks for this. Seriously. You are 100% correct. This is a horrible disease, whereisjustice Oct 2014 #25
And the hospital had 70 people treating Mr. Duncan. LisaL Oct 2014 #32
that asshole needs to lose his job TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #37
what the F*ck is it with DU'ers trashing the CDC. It's like a wingnut infestation has taken over. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #10
do you have something of value to add to this thread? The Dr. who wrote this list of 5 critical whereisjustice Oct 2014 #13
Constructive criticism is not the same as "trashing the CDC." pnwmom Oct 2014 #24
It does make you wonder if certain people in the media actually give a shit....... AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #26
why wait until there are more deaths before modifying the procedures to protect health care whereisjustice Oct 2014 #28
The "call a doctor" advice sounds like it was given by someone with privilege Fumesucker Oct 2014 #29
Can't leave it up to Hospital CEO's riverwalker Oct 2014 #31
All that's well and good.......BUT BooScout Oct 2014 #33
I agree. Hospital in Spain was not a biosafety level 4 hospital either. LisaL Oct 2014 #34
Dallas prosecutor threatening to arrest Thomas Duncan??? Little Star Oct 2014 #35
NPR had a story about a nurses' union demanding some more protections adigal Oct 2014 #36

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
1. Yes, it's all the CDC's fault, that a hospital in Texas...
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:12 AM
Oct 2014

and every single employee at a Hospital in Texas, hadn't practiced and perfected, then perfectly implemented, infectious disease protocols.



And there sure is a scent o' pine around here.

Sid

Response to SidDithers (Reply #1)

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
4. And you can guarantee that the protocol was followed perfectly...
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:33 AM
Oct 2014

without any breaches? By every employee?

And that they were all trained and had practiced these protocols prior to receiving Duncan as a patient?

You don't sound like a very pragmatic_dem.

Sid

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
8. perhaps you can come down from canada and monitor them and make sure they are behaving...
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:53 AM
Oct 2014

the way you think they should be behaving. And then alert us when they violate your perceived protocol.

The CDC guidelines are less stringent than the guidelines followed by UN, Doctors without Borders, and health care workers in Africa (at present).

You are implying that the CDC guidelines are adequate and that it it is likely fault of the nursing staff, etc i.e. incompetence caused their infection. Do you realize how incredibly irresponsible your implications are?

And the idea of the CDC telling people to "call a doctor"? Being from Canada you wouldn't know anything about our health care system. You don't just call a doctor. Why the hell would CDC tell people to do that? It is stupid. Perhaps if you are director of CDC you can call a doctor. I am very close to medical community and I cannot just call a doctor.

You should stay out of this discussion. When Canada gets their first patients, feel free to chime in on Canada's protocols.

Right now you are acting in an inappropriate and irresponsible manner about something that needs clarity. You are just a distraction.


SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
12. Canada, particularly Toronto, will be prepared if we do get a patient...
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:15 AM
Oct 2014

We had our "dry run" when SARS almost shut down the city in 2003. More than 40 people died, and something like 20,000 people were put into quarantine.

And I'll enter into any damn discussion that I please, thank you very much. I for sure won't take orders from you, given your histories here.

Sid

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
23. Even if we hadn't had that second Ebola case, that article offers some excellent suggestions.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 03:09 AM
Oct 2014

Of course we shouldn't be telling newcomers to the country to call some doctor if they felt sick. A dedicated 800 number for possible Ebola patients makes a lot of sense.

And telling all hospitals dealing with Ebola that their providers should be using the "buddy system" -- just like the four special centers -- also makes a lot of sense.

You could try reading the OP, if it isn't too much effort.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
6. I have a sneaking suspicion most that TEXAS hospital staff
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:52 AM
Oct 2014

don't like the feds none and don't take to being told what to do by a bunch of damned Yankees.

Just a theory. Texas culture being what it is.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
11. profit comes first, administrators freely admit this, however, people in health care generally
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:08 AM
Oct 2014

nurses, especially, have enormous empathy, they have families and kids and are eager to learn best practices.

Now as far as politics, the Dallas prosecutor wanted to arrest Duncan. That is exactly what you are talking about.

The CDC will be updating the protocols. That is certain. When they do, hospital staff will follow them and the risk of infection will decrease.

Administrators and politicians, however, need to stay out of the way.

I just can't believe CDC would tell sick persons from ebola infected areas to "call a doctor".

Most hospitals do not regularly drill for infections outbreaks. You focus on a few key institutions with around the clock training and immediately divert possible patients to those trained and ready to receive these patients.

Midnight Writer

(21,753 posts)
5. I've noticed the word "breach" being interpreted as "violation"
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:50 AM
Oct 2014

especially on right-wing talk media. "Breach" simply means that the virus was able to penetrate the barriers in place using the current protocol.

That could be a result of human error, insufficient adherence to the protocols, insufficient training, or a fault in the protocols themselves. It could also mean the virus has mutated, which would not be surprising.

Regardless of the cause of the breach, I find it ironic that the ONLY solution involves a strong government response, which is itself a "breach" of the conservative Republican protocol.

Midnight Writer

(21,753 posts)
15. Exactly right. Recall Reagan's response to AIDS
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:22 AM
Oct 2014

Which was no government response at all. In fact, Reagan refused to even mention the term "AIDS", and the official policy was to condemn gay sex and "sodomy".

There was no government push to find treatments or vaccines or preventive measures other than a totally political condemnation of "lifestyle choices". As a result, the virus gained a worldwide foothold, and millions in the USA, and many millions around the world died, and continue to die forty years later.

Thank God we have a President who is declaring a war on this virus not only in this country but around the world BEFORE it becomes uncontrollable.

And to the conservative loudmouths who object to the USA using our resources to fight Ebola in Africa, I can only respond: We can either fight it overseas, or we can fight it here.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
18. I agree, but we have to be sure before we expose health care workers to infectious disease
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:46 AM
Oct 2014

we have the right protocols/procedures in place. Right now, it is clear we do not.

Specifically, it is disturbing that CDC immediately proclaimed a health care worker had violated protocol. Upon examination of the protocol, it is inadequate.

This is an area where we need to learn from the workers on the front lines about what is working and what is not.

I won't tolerate institutional administrators pointing fingers at those who cannot defend themselves.

It's like saying Michael Brown's murder was justified because he stole a few $1 cigars.

The CDC needs to man up and fix their recommendations and put a real plan in place and move forward with it.

Midnight Writer

(21,753 posts)
19. The CDC did not say there was a "violation" of protocol
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 02:18 AM
Oct 2014

They said there was a "breach" of protocol, which means the barriers of the protocol were penetrated. A "breach" does not necessarily blame the worker, but could be a fault in the protocol itself, or a weakness in the training or procedure.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
20. The exact quote is here. And it was irresponsible.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 02:36 AM
Oct 2014
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me just make sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that somehow or another by accident or otherwise that one of the protocols was violated or not followed and-- and that's how this happened, not because there are other ways that you can get this disease? Is that basically what you're saying, Doctor?

DR. TOM FRIEDEN: That's correct. We know from many years of experience that it's possible to care for patients with Ebola safely without risk to health care workers. But we also know that it's hard that even a single breach can result in contamination. And one of the areas that we look at closely are things like how you take off the gear that might be infected or contaminated. Another that we'll be looking at closely in-- in the investigation is the-- the interventions that were done to try desperately to keep the index patient alive. This included dialysis and intubation. These are two procedures which can result in the spread of infectious material.


Tom Frieden is Director of CDC.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-october-12-2014-frieden-panetta-mccaul/

This is what started the firestorm. He was wrong to say that. What more, the CDC has no real experience fighting ebola in the USA. I have no idea what he thought he was doing, perhaps exude confidence, but he is not correct and just made things worse. Much worse.

Midnight Writer

(21,753 posts)
27. Yes, I stand corrected
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 03:52 AM
Oct 2014

Frieden did say "That's correct" in response to Schieffer's question if a protocol was violated, and that certainly seems an arrogant attitude that the protocol is infallible if properly followed. However, he used the term breach rather than violation in his response. The following day, he "clarified" his answer, emphasizing the term "breach" and declaring that the healthcare worker was not at fault. Hopefully, this incident will provoke a review of the procedures to correct any weaknesses.

You are absolutely right that it is totally irresponsible to blame the heroic healthcare workers who are risking their own lives and safety to care for the ill among us.

I wonder, though, if a problem here is that Dr. Frieden is a Doctor and Director rather than a skilled media-savvy spokesperson. Perhaps if we had a Surgeon General with those skills the messaging would be clearer.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
30. As a doctor he blew it. I would argue if he had stuck to the medicine and
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 04:06 AM
Oct 2014

science he would have been ok. However, it appears that he didn't understand that the protocol in place was more for antibiotic resistant infections, not something like Ebola which can spew blood, urine, vomit and feces everywhere in a horrible reaction to the disease.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
9. And states' rights - Texas is huge on states' rights, so they have
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:58 AM
Oct 2014

the right to approach public health any damned way they please. And they have. The Texas way apparently involves failing to require that hospitals train their staffs in basic infection control and use of PPE. The nurse in Dallas was a rookie at the whole infectious diseases thing, and I don't know about you, but I'd want my best and most experienced on my team for this game. But I bet that made payroll higher than the bean counters found acceptable.

I mean, a woman in Liberia with nothing but a few pairs of gloves, some bleach, a bucket, a few masks, and some plastic trash bags managed to treat her whole family and not get sick. And these people are blaming CDC and Frieden and guidelines for this case.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
21. no, a breach in the protocol means someone didn't do what they should have done
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 02:52 AM
Oct 2014

And that's exactly how Friedman used it. And when he had no idea how the nurse became infected to begin with. No, he thinks the CDC's protocol is just fine when it isn't. He thinks any US hospital can care for an Ebola patient without any breaches when it can't. At that time there was ONE single Ebola patient that was found to be needing care after he left West Africa and there's no reason on earth why he shouldn't have been sent to one of the four hospitals equipped to handle a high level disease such as Ebola with staff that already use correct protocol above that of the CDC's protocol and with years of training, practice and experienced supervision.

The CDC's own website calls for protective clothing for caring for an Ebola patient that is NOT adequate. Disinfection of the clothing before removing it is not part of their protocol when it needs to be especially with inexperienced, untrained, unsupervised staff that have had no practice in removal of the protective clothing perfectly.

There is no reason on earth that this ONE Ebola patient couldn't have been sent to one of the four appropriate care facilities for a disease such as Ebola just as all the other Americans that were infected in West Africa and transferred back to the US for care did. Because of the CDC's erroneous belief that any US hospital can appropriately handle an Ebola patient they ok'd Mr. Duncan being cared for at a hospital not prepared for such a patient and by staff woefully unprotected by using the CDC's inadequate protective clothing protocol with no training, supervision or time to practice getting in and out of protective clothing.

Friedman's saying that there was a breach in protocol IS blaming the nurse for getting herself infected by not perfectly following the CDC's inadequate protocol that he continues to believe is perfect... the only thing they have revised is the number of people that care for an Ebola patient. There has been no revision to the inadequate clothing protocol and still no disinfection of that clothing before removal.

And now this nurse may die because Friedman decided to gamble with the lives of staff caring for Mr. Duncan in order to prove that any hospital could successfully care for an Ebola patient. What possible other reason could there be for the CDC's approval of using an inadequate hospital with newbie staff unsupervised rather than having Mr. Duncan sent to one of the four US hospitals that could handle his care appropriately using protective clothing and disinfection protocols far above what the CDC's protocol is when every American that became infected while in Africa was sent to one of those four hospitals for THEIR care? And in all of those cases there has been no breach in protocol because the staff there uses a protocol far more protective than that of the CDC's with staff that is experienced and supervised as well as disinfected before they remove their protective clothing.

So fucking what whatever crazy Repukes are saying or their trying to blame Obama. Of course they will, that's what they do about everything. But trying to pretend that the CDC's decisions and protocol are perfectly fine when they so obviously are not just because of what lunatic Repukes say is fucked in the head. This is about real people becoming infected because they aren't trained, supervised, practiced in caring for an Ebola patient in a hospital not prepared to deal with such a patient and with inadequate CDC protocols. That nurse became infected because she was the wrong person for the job as well as the other staff that cared for Mr. Duncan using a CDC protocol that is inadequate in a hospital unprepared to deal with a the high biosafety level of an Ebola patient. The CDC made a decision to gamble with their lives, and now they blame the nurse for having done something wrong because she got infected when they don't even know HOW she became infected, and Friedman blamed her to cover the CDC's ass for what is entirely their mistakes.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
25. Thanks for this. Seriously. You are 100% correct. This is a horrible disease,
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 03:13 AM
Oct 2014

incredible the political CYA going on here. The logic is so twisted it is physically revolting, so many lives are at stake - they have no fucking idea just how dangerous and torturous this disease is. The human body's response is to expel bodily fluids in an attempt to fight it off. Vomiting, diarrhea, bleeding, there are fluids everywhere. That's how it spreads. It isn't like the antibiotic resistant diseases - that's the protocol CDC is using. Ebola is much, much worse with infectious fluids everywhere.

I'm not religious, but if there is a god, may he help those infected and those giving treatment.




LisaL

(44,973 posts)
32. And the hospital had 70 people treating Mr. Duncan.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 07:24 AM
Oct 2014

All following the same protocol.
More of them could become ill (and CDC admits that).
Scary stuff.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
37. that asshole needs to lose his job
Wed Oct 15, 2014, 03:38 AM
Oct 2014

And I hope he gets sued out the wazoo for gambling with these peoples' lives, and for WHAT? To try to prove a point that any hospital can successfully care for an Ebola patient when they CAN'T? When it's beyond obvious that the can't? There's a reason why all the Americans infected in Africa came back to the US for treatment all went to one of those four hospitals capable of handling such a high biosafety level such as Ebola with staff that has years of experience, drills, supervision, correct PPE protocol far above the CDC's useless guidelines and disinfection of PPE before removal. And that reason is obvious to anyone with sense - because any other hospitals were NOT properly equipped with the correct gear, staff, etc.

After hearing the horror tales of what the nurses' union found out I will be absolutely amazed if no one else becomes infected. And because that Dallas hospital has no union they had the gall to forbid any of the workers to say anything about any of it.

Hell, that shit should be in jail for such willful negligence.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
10. what the F*ck is it with DU'ers trashing the CDC. It's like a wingnut infestation has taken over.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:00 AM
Oct 2014

The fact CNN is trumpeting this means the Republicans know their defunding and blocking public healthcare makes them vulnerable.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
13. do you have something of value to add to this thread? The Dr. who wrote this list of 5 critical
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 01:16 AM
Oct 2014

deficiencies is, in fact, correct. Now you can blame sequestration, republicans, etc for the lapse, but regardless, the CDCs advice for this disease is not adequate at best, dangerous at worse.

The CDC, like SEC, NSA, EPA is under severe political pressure from Democrats and Republicans.

There seems to be a trend that transcends politics - our institutions are failing the general public.

Whether it is banking or fracking or infectious disease, politics is having a negative effect on the general public, to an extent that hasn't been seen in US government before.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
26. It does make you wonder if certain people in the media actually give a shit.......
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 03:30 AM
Oct 2014

Color me cynical, but the CDC has rarely gotten the credit it really deserves; notice how there haven't been any problems elsewhere in the country?

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
28. why wait until there are more deaths before modifying the procedures to protect health care
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 03:54 AM
Oct 2014

workers from this disease? Should we take that chance in an effort to protect the perceived reputation of the CDC?

The origin of this vector could have happened anywhere. And it may show up somewhere else. The measure of CDC is how well the response is handled after infection first detected within the US.

As far as credit, American health care system is the most inefficient in the modern world measured by dollars input versus patient outcome. The CDC is our health care authority. If we were once exceptional, I don't think we are exceptional anymore.

At some point the science and mathematics exposes political gamesmanship. That is something we see with global warming. At that point it is foolish to proceed down the political path rather than solve the core problem. For example, should we assume EPA deserves credit because some areas of the country are slightly cooler than usual?

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
29. The "call a doctor" advice sounds like it was given by someone with privilege
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 04:03 AM
Oct 2014

Quite a lot of privilege actually to be that unfamiliar with how the American medical system runs in practice for a great many of us.



riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
31. Can't leave it up to Hospital CEO's
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 07:03 AM
Oct 2014

which protocols to follow. CDC only suggests the MINIMUM amount of protection needed. Some hospitals have decided to go above CDC protocols and have maximum protection (Emory and Johns Hopkins) have full MSF type protections.
Hospitals are attempting to sidestep responsibility going with minimal ($$$) protection and hiding behind the CDC. The media is acting like hospital administrators are blameless in the chaos, when they were told in August to start to prepare, and they blew it off.

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
33. All that's well and good.......BUT
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 07:43 AM
Oct 2014

What exactly is the reason for the failure in Spain? Different type of system all together and you can't blame it on the arrogance of 'American Exceptionalism'. You can't blame it on the government not being motivated by public health and the profit margins of the health care industry.

Probably the biggest thing you can blame it on is the fact that the health systems of the west simply were not prepared or ready. Emory Hospital has been training for years for this scenario, often in partnership with the CDC and even they had major problems. Little has been said of the waste disposal problems at Emory. If they had been training for a dozen years as they have so often publicized.......then why wasn't this anticipated beforehand?

Why did the CDC not anticipate that only a handful of hospitals would have the ability to cope?

It's all well and good for the various representatives of the western governments to stand before the media and espouse on how prepared we are...........but when the wonderful health care systems of the west get a big fat fail when the shit hits the fan......it's time stop lying to the public and trying to make us all feel good.

I understand the need not to panic the public.....but when the truth is so obviously blatant that we aren't ready, its too little, too late.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
34. I agree. Hospital in Spain was not a biosafety level 4 hospital either.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 07:55 AM
Oct 2014

The woman who got infected wasn't even a nurse. She was a nursing assistant. From what I understand, she was a volunteer.
So certainly not someone well trained in how to care for highly infectious patients.
Spain did even worse than US in not recognizing for a week this woman was infected with Ebola. So woman's condition deteriorated by the time it was finally recognized she had Ebola.
I think it was very irresponsible for Spain to import dying patients with Ebola (who died anyway), considering the hospital clearly didn't appear to be ready, in any way, shape or form, to take care of these patients.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
35. Dallas prosecutor threatening to arrest Thomas Duncan???
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 08:59 AM
Oct 2014

Do you have a link for that?

I thought it was officials in Liberia who threatened that, not someone from Dallas.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
36. NPR had a story about a nurses' union demanding some more protections
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 10:13 AM
Oct 2014

Like the buddy system, and better protective gear. Makes sense, for sure.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»CNN actually did some rea...