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Stuart G

(38,527 posts)
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:25 PM Nov 2014

What to tell Republicans who don't believe in government regulations.

Republicans say, "Government regulations are no good, and hurt business"

tell them, "Show how you feel by never putting on your seat belt.., that is a government regulation that kinda holds you back. So don't put it on. You know, none of the government regulations ever help anyone anyway....."

leave it at that..and argue if they are consistent, they will not put on a seat belt...kinda harsh, but they need to realize what they are really saying...and thinking.....

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What to tell Republicans who don't believe in government regulations. (Original Post) Stuart G Nov 2014 OP
Or ask them if they want Koch Bros owned Georgia Pacific to be allowed to pour randys1 Nov 2014 #1
I agree, show them whatever works..here is another example.. Stuart G Nov 2014 #2
When Nader was insisting seat belts be mandatory, what we KNOW FOR A FACT is ALL teaparty randys1 Nov 2014 #4
A few weeks ago I was dining with some RW friends when a statement was made Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #3
Here is an easy one to show them... Stuart G Nov 2014 #6
Any regs proposed MUST come from a white conservative otherwise they will kill randys1 Nov 2014 #7
But do they fail in regulating abortion clinics? Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #8
No shit, they regulate the hell out of them, but we know all cons are hypocrites randys1 Nov 2014 #9
Time to bring back this old chestnut. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2014 #5
"so what you're saying is that you want companies to be as unethical as possible?" unblock Nov 2014 #10
tell them to fly in an airplane that has had no government supervision.... spanone Nov 2014 #11
Outstanding point..no air traffic control..no regs on airplane specs, no safety features Stuart G Nov 2014 #12
how about those gov't regulated red, green & yellow lights that pop up every few intersections? spanone Nov 2014 #13
Nothing, because trying to teach a fish to fly Aerows Nov 2014 #14
But camels CAN swim ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #16
Try to enforce a contract without Socialist Courts and Law Enforcement. One_Life_To_Give Nov 2014 #15
Oh, please, they all hate that nanny state seat belt stuff Warpy Nov 2014 #17
Helen Chenoweth, conservative congresswoman, died from not wearing one. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #18
Thank You for the example.. Stuart G Nov 2014 #19
Detroit fought safety when Ralph Nader wrote "Unsafe at any speed" about the Corvair. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #21
I'd tell them to go mine coal with no regs. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #20

randys1

(16,286 posts)
1. Or ask them if they want Koch Bros owned Georgia Pacific to be allowed to pour
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:27 PM
Nov 2014

unlimited pollutants in the air with their their grandson living next door to it; then show them pictures of other countries where this is allowed and what the air looks like.

You have to treat these types like 12 yr olds, pictures work best.

Stuart G

(38,527 posts)
2. I agree, show them whatever works..here is another example..
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:35 PM
Nov 2014

Go back and see if you can find a picture of someone who was destroyed when he/she did not have on a seatbelt. Somewhere there is a picture. if the polluted air idea works, good. Or say stories about the London fog in 1952 that was so poisonous that it killed 4000. There were no pollution laws then, and most burned coal for heat in London, and that got caught in an awful 4 day inversion. Show them anything that will make them see how stupid their ideas about regulations are. No minimum wage laws and no safety laws. No cars with extra safety protections . These people are the most selfish people on earth...

randys1

(16,286 posts)
4. When Nader was insisting seat belts be mandatory, what we KNOW FOR A FACT is ALL teaparty
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:37 PM
Nov 2014

and most repubs would have fought that tooth and nail.

Jesus christ, why do we tolerate these people anymore, we need to organize and make them irrelevant.

There should not be another election where a republican wins, ever.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. A few weeks ago I was dining with some RW friends when a statement was made
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:36 PM
Nov 2014

They should just allow the companies to do what they want, they do not need regulations. I ask them did they want to be like China and not be able to breathe, one with COPD did not argue. Look what happened in West, TX with the fertilizer company, they had regulations but wasn't enforced.

Stuart G

(38,527 posts)
6. Here is an easy one to show them...
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:42 PM
Nov 2014

1979....deaths on highway....53,000 approx.
2013....deaths on highway....33,000 approx...over 30 years...40 percent increase in population and autos...and

............40 percent decrease in deaths...

seat belts front and back, air bags, crumple zones, extra lights on autos..many additions that reduced deaths. Safer roads, and state laws that mandate seat belt use...Over time, most people just put them on. saves lives..Oh, if they don't believe it, tell them to look it up on Wikipedia ...it is there for all to see..

population in l980....228,000,000
population in 2013...315,000,000

randys1

(16,286 posts)
7. Any regs proposed MUST come from a white conservative otherwise they will kill
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:43 PM
Nov 2014

themselves and their children opposing regs because they cant accept them from a liberal because to do so is to admit they are wrong and have been wrong about

E V E R Y T H I N G

unblock

(52,872 posts)
10. "so what you're saying is that you want companies to be as unethical as possible?"
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:52 PM
Nov 2014

if an economic transaction affects only buyer and seller, with a free exchange of honest information, then by and large i'd agree there should be little or no regulation.

but regulation often deals with third parties getting screwed over by someone else's economic transaction (e.g., one that causes pollution). should we abandon these innocent people? in any real system of ethics, it's a crime to steal something from a third party, and if the first and second parties agree to profit from the third party's loss, it amounts to a conspiracy. mere "regulation" is the lightest form of protection one could reasonably think appropriate here.

other regulation deals with fraud. no third party here, just a company claiming their product does one thing, but in truth it doesn't, or it has hidden costs or hidden risks. one could argue "let the buyer beware", but you know, we tried that and people died. lots of people died. society has decided that consumers aren't lab rats, and shouldn't be risking their lives when they buy a toy because some unethical boss decided to save a few bucks by using toxic paint.

the reality is that consumers without such regulations, buyers pay a very, very heavy price before the market "gets it right" and stops using ingredients that kill or otherwise harm.

the fundamental principle here is that economic transactions should *increase* the economic well-being of society. whenever it *decreases* it, that's a problem, and regulation can and should stop in.

spanone

(136,218 posts)
11. tell them to fly in an airplane that has had no government supervision....
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:55 PM
Nov 2014

from maintenance to security.....proceed friends

Stuart G

(38,527 posts)
12. Outstanding point..no air traffic control..no regs on airplane specs, no safety features
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 06:57 PM
Nov 2014

no regulations on what airports can be..you know,,,just business as business wants..oh..and no regulations on pilots and other crew and as you said, .....maintenance....

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
14. Nothing, because trying to teach a fish to fly
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 07:00 PM
Nov 2014

or a camel to swim is a fools errand. They don't WANT to know anything. Hard heads with no thoughts aren't worth engaging - it's a waste of your intellect and time; when you are through, they just go back to babbling like idiots.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
15. Try to enforce a contract without Socialist Courts and Law Enforcement.
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 07:11 PM
Nov 2014

Where do people get this idea that Free Markets exist by themselves? It takes alot of government effort to allow truly Free Markets to exist.

Businesses constantly try to avoid regulations detrimental to themselves while encouraging regulations detrimental to their competition. Cause again who want's to actually have to compete in a Free Market when the alternatives are so much more lucrative.

Warpy

(111,794 posts)
17. Oh, please, they all hate that nanny state seat belt stuff
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 07:43 PM
Nov 2014

and most of them just loop the shoulder strap around their upper arm, anyway, nobody's gonna tell them what to do, humpf!

Just tell him that half the pills in his blood pressure medicine bottle are now sugar pills because the company decided the real thing was too expensive. When there is no government regulation, they will do that. We know this because they already did much the same thing before we got safe drug regulations.

Or tell him that big roast beef he bought for Thanksgiving has been injected with red dye because it was getting too old for the fluorescent lighting to turn naturally red and washed in bleach to kill the smell. Eating it rare is going to kill him. Yeah, they do that sort of thing in Asian countries where nobody regulates safe food.

Let him know he'd be showering in raw sewage without safe water regulations, and the tires on his car would fail on the highway because they were cheaply done retreads sold as new tires. No pesky government regulations to get in the way, you know.

Oh, and his bank just seized his house and accounts. Nobody is going to stop them, either.

But seat belts? They muss up his pants, he'd love to see them go.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
18. Helen Chenoweth, conservative congresswoman, died from not wearing one.
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 07:57 PM
Nov 2014

She was a congresswoman from Idaho, extremely conservative, and was in a car wreck and died after being thrown from the vehicle. She drove because she was selected for a hand search at the Boise airport and refused.

From wikipedia:

Later life

During her final term, Chenoweth married rancher and author Wayne Hage in Boise in 1999[12] and changed her name to Helen Chenoweth-Hage. After leaving Congress, she moved to Hage's Nevada ranch, where the two continued to write and speak on private property rights issues. Wayne Hage died after a battle with cancer at age 68 on June 5, 2006.[13][14]

After leaving Congress, Chenoweth-Hage continued to make headlines. In 2003 at the Boise Airport she was selected by the Transportation Security Administration for a hand search before they would permit her to board a plane for her Nevada home. Chenoweth-Hage requested to see a copy of the regulation granting United States Department of Homeland Security the authority to search her without cause. When the request was denied, she refused to submit to the search and elected to make the 300-mile (480 km) trip by rental car. "Our borders are wide open and yet they're shaking down a 66-year-old white grandmother they greeted by name," she said of the incident. "It's time the American people say no to this kind of invasion. It's a question of personal privacy. There shouldn't be that kind of search without reasonable cause."[15]
Death

On October 2, 2006, Chenoweth-Hage was killed after being thrown from the passenger seat of a sport utility vehicle that overturned on an isolated highway in central Nevada, near Tonopah. She was not wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the car. Her (step) daughter-in-law and grandson, who were also in the vehicle, suffered only minor injuries.[16]


Her family values (also from Wikipedia):

She was a critic of President Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal and was one of the first to call for his resignation over the affair, although she admitted that she had carried on a six-year illicit romance with married rancher Vernon Ravenscroft,[8] when she worked for his natural-resources consulting firm during the 1980s. Chenoweth claimed that her case was different from the Clinton/Lewinsky case since she was a private citizen at the time, and claimed her case was different because "I've asked for God's forgiveness, and I've received it." [9][10]

Stuart G

(38,527 posts)
19. Thank You for the example..
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 09:31 PM
Nov 2014

There are so many wing nuts who believe that gov regs are bad and evil that I had a hunch there were examples.. It is sad that these people hate so much that they do not understand the simplest of ideas: Government regulations are necessary in an era where businesses have already shown what happens without them. Safety of cars has improved dramatically since government demanded improvements were built into cars. The seatbelt idea has been proven over and over again to work.. I always suggest for people to read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair when it comes to arguing about whether or not the government should regulate businesses.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
21. Detroit fought safety when Ralph Nader wrote "Unsafe at any speed" about the Corvair.
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 10:21 PM
Nov 2014

The automakers didn't think that safety and self-preservation would sell to drivers. Now they use airbags, crumple zones, safety ratings and all that stuff as selling points.

If they don't understand seat belts, they don't understand inertia. You hit something. The car stops and you keep going forward.
Real simple stuff that Sir Isaac Newton figured out a long time ago.

Ford went through millions of dollars worth of lawsuits and bad publicity over not making the Pinto gas tank safer and lots of people were killed in rear end accidents, and it probably cost a couple of dollars.

Back in the 1970s, my lawyer friends referred to the Ford Pinto as "the molotov".

They called Helen Chenoweth the defender of militias and she defended the Oklahoma City bombers.



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