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BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:28 AM Nov 2014

the unspoken meaning behind the hyperbolic praise Cosby is getting on tour:

it is purposeful and specific, intended to vilify the accusers.

the overwhelming praise for b.c. IS a statement.

It means this------"Fuck those lying women."

That's guilty until proven innocent., in the court of public opinion.

the unspoken meaning behind the hyperbolic praise Cosby is getting on tour: (Original Post) BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 OP
Yep shenmue Nov 2014 #1
yup mopinko Nov 2014 #2
yep. exactly. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #3
Yup. I can't imagine.... JaneyVee Nov 2014 #4
"That's guilty until proven innocent., in the court of public opinion." unrepentant progress Nov 2014 #5
oh, I intended it. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #6
+1000 eShirl Nov 2014 #9
It's the same reason people defended Roman Polanski and Michael Jackson. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #7
yep. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #8
I agree - more about general denial ctaylors6 Nov 2014 #10
And, it must be admitted, Cosby's public persona is endearing. It's a loveable persona and Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #11
A long-time lovable persona ctaylors6 Nov 2014 #14
Agreed. Thank-you for the conversation. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #15
yes, it's very hard to overcome a kind persona. predators know this, too. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #18
like the old commercial could be modified "I am not a nice person hfojvt Nov 2014 #23
! BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #25
There was a fair amount of ethnic chauvinism too AngryAmish Nov 2014 #29
at this point though hfojvt Nov 2014 #22
a couple thoughts immediately come to mind BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #26
Really? 11 of 14? hfojvt Nov 2014 #33
oh, you didn't know about the backlog of rape kits left in police storage rooms? BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #34
a backlog hfojvt Nov 2014 #41
I was replying to your comment. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #53
Rich and powerful people awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #44
that's a good point ctaylors6 Nov 2014 #35
Juanita Broaddrick? alp227 Nov 2014 #39
no I guess that was another one hfojvt Nov 2014 #40
Monica never accused BC of rape. nt alp227 Nov 2014 #43
You remember the OJ trial? XemaSab Nov 2014 #55
The truth will never be known yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #31
And it's not just the media. Le Taz Hot Nov 2014 #12
yep. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #13
Ah, yes, the disruptors. They're like dust. You can get rid of most of it but not all. nt valerief Nov 2014 #17
Why isn't that true though? hfojvt Nov 2014 #32
Well, this IS a patriarchy, like all those other theocratic countries. nt valerief Nov 2014 #16
yep. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #19
To avoid accusations of rape, Bill HoosierCowboy Nov 2014 #20
for predators, consent takes away the fun. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #21
Jimmy Saville got away with being a predator all his life. pink-o Nov 2014 #24
^^^ this^^^ n/t BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #27
it's hard to believe that hfojvt Nov 2014 #37
You don't think you'd remember being raped or sexually abused at the age of 8? gollygee Nov 2014 #49
a very depressed k and r for the truth. niyad Nov 2014 #28
Don't underestimate the corollary: "Fuck the lying media (that lost KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #30
or it could be because the people praising him SoCalDem Nov 2014 #36
I don't know that I think of him as a "hero" or "my idol" hfojvt Nov 2014 #38
Exactly Blanche, you said it all. sheshe2 Nov 2014 #42
k&r... spanone Nov 2014 #45
There is some truth to that, no doubt. AverageJoe90 Nov 2014 #46
I don't think some people like "The Court of Public Opinion." BKH70041 Nov 2014 #47
I thought the court of public opinion and DU had convicted Bill Cosby. madinmaryland Nov 2014 #48
Thanks for this post, I agree Beringia Nov 2014 #50
It's even worse than believing that the accusers are lying. WhiteAndNerdy Nov 2014 #51
^ BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #52
It's especially strange when you consider that his audience is primarily rudolph the red Nov 2014 #54
The same bunch MFM008 Nov 2014 #56
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
4. Yup. I can't imagine....
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:49 AM
Nov 2014

How traumatic it must be to see people clapping, cheering, and giving a standing ovation to your rapist.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
6. oh, I intended it.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:05 AM
Nov 2014

!!!


It's sad, and must be yet more trauma for those women....
Really, actually, more trauma for all women, since most of us have experienced some form of sexualized abuse from men.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
7. It's the same reason people defended Roman Polanski and Michael Jackson.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:05 AM
Nov 2014

People are in denial because they are emotionally invested in their celebrity heroes.

Added -- I'm in the group that does not want this to be true. However, the claims cannot be dismissed. We have to know the truth.

ctaylors6

(693 posts)
10. I agree - more about general denial
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:09 AM
Nov 2014

that their celebrity hero could do wrong than the specific accusers.
I remember same thing with OJ Simpson. People who wouldn't even consider he maybe guilty because he's a football star.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
11. And, it must be admitted, Cosby's public persona is endearing. It's a loveable persona and
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:14 AM
Nov 2014

we want to believe that is how he really is.

I believe there may also be a corollary to Robin Williams' suicide. His comic routine and characters were always so frenetic, so high-energy. He made people laugh. He brought us so much joy. That is why it was so devastating to learn he was trapped in the tar pits of depression and couldn't get out, only to see him suddenly slip away.

ctaylors6

(693 posts)
14. A long-time lovable persona
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:36 AM
Nov 2014

is particularly difficult to overcome in the eyes of many. I had never heard any allegations about Bill Cosby until the last few weeks. I don't really read much about celebrities (much to my kids' amusement at my ignorance of "well-known" people). And I confess that the first headline I read I didn't really even look at the story. Then I read Michelle Hurd's story and was shocked. I'm the age that grew up with the Cosby show and the cartoon before that and the Jello commercials.

A reminder once again that the public personas of celebrities are often fabricated out of whole cloth. I frequently tell my kids that celebrities are not role models. Boy, is this a huge reminder of that.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
18. yes, it's very hard to overcome a kind persona. predators know this, too.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:08 AM
Nov 2014

They know how to groom victims and manage their image outside of their lairs.

Celebrity is that phenomenon increased by orders of magnitude.

And in a patriarchal society, where men are believed, have less narrow expectations to pass and generally viewed more favorably than women.....

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
22. at this point though
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:04 PM
Nov 2014

how can we possibly know the truth. We have a whole bunch of he said - she said. And none of the "she said" people said anything in real time - which would have allowed the collection of actual physical evidence. Can we KNOW the truth based on the idea that "these women are willing to testify in court, so they must be telling the truth"?

So nobody ever lies under oath?

Or can we KNOW the truth based on the idea that "there is more than one, (or two, or five) accusers, so they must be telling the truth"?

So there is NOT more than one dishonest person in this country?

Consider another "serial rapist" - Bill Clinton.

Well, there was Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, and at least one other woman whose name escapes me (and is not being mentioned in wiki). The widow on the elevator. She was all over the media, was on Hardball for half an hour trashing Clinton. Heck, even years later in 2004 when Clinton's biography "My Life" came out the local CBS news affiliate in KC quoted her as saying "It should have been called 'My lies'"

I credit Somerby for pointing out - even the special prosecutor, who was doing his best to get Clinton's scalp - did NOT think that her story was credible.

Which doesn't, of course, stop the media from, even in 2004, giving her airtime to slime the former President.

Then, of course, there was Clinton, who solemnly stood before the nation and said "I did not have sex with that woman ..." I remember thinking at the time "I sure hope he is telling the truth, but he is probably lying."

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
26. a couple thoughts immediately come to mind
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:28 PM
Nov 2014

First thought is, Clinton had the whole repuke PTB's gunning for him. Including media. Voice was given to female accusers that isn't usually afforded people abused by someone who isn't in the crosshairs of a vast conspiracy.

Another thought, spur of the moment, is that the majority of the women speaking up so far (11 out of 14, IIRC) DID report at the time. BUT ALLEGATIONS WERE IGNORED, swept under the rug, dropped out of public eye. (Barely made it into public eye in the first place.)

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
33. Really? 11 of 14?
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:11 PM
Nov 2014

Did they report it to the police? Or to the press? Usually police investigate things and DAs prosecute things whether they are all over the public eye or not.

Or maybe I am naive about the way police actually work rape cases.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
34. oh, you didn't know about the backlog of rape kits left in police storage rooms?
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:24 PM
Nov 2014

Hundreds of thousands in PD's all over. It's been in the news lately (maybe not mainstream so much, but...)

I think NYC just passed legislation requiring action get started on processing them.

Anyway, I believe some reported to police, some to media, some to DA's? Some to colleagues....and I realize now it's up to about 20 women speaking up.

Many women don't say a thing until they're stronger, until it's less scary, until they feel they'll have some support (rather than the stigma and attacks that most women get). They're so many factors that silence victims.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
41. a backlog
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 03:19 PM
Nov 2014

but not from the Cosby case.

Presumably the backlog is from cases where the perp is unknown. Or when a perp seems to credibly claim consent. Otherwise the cops are just letting a whole bunch of rapists walk????

I don't see how they could get away with that, unless the victims have no friends or family.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
53. I was replying to your comment.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:12 PM
Nov 2014
Or maybe I am naive about the way police actually work rape cases.


No need to doubt me. Just google "rape kit evidence backlog ". You'll get plenty of good reads.

ctaylors6

(693 posts)
35. that's a good point
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:37 PM
Nov 2014

I'm usually the last one to make a decision based on "evidence" in the news. I've seen in my legal career too many instances in which the information in the media was simply flat out wrong. And the higher profile, the less reliable the media reports.

I suppose in this case I feel a little differently about drawing a conclusion because it sounds like there never will be any legal proceedings for any of these women because of the statute of limitations. I haven't read a ton of stories, but I haven't seen anything that indicates anything recent enough for him to be investigated by authorities.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
40. no I guess that was another one
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 03:06 PM
Nov 2014

it was Kathleen Willey I was trying to remember. Google, through wiki, sorta gives me a complete list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_misconduct_allegations_against_Bill_Clinton

Only seven accusers (although one claimed only a one night stand) and Monica was not claiming to be any sort of victim (or was she?)

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
55. You remember the OJ trial?
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 12:08 AM
Nov 2014

Of course you do.

Well imagine that instead of some racist cop on the stand, it's you.

You're being questioned by the best defense attorneys in the United States.

They're asking you how you knew Cosby, if you were flirting with him, what you were wearing, if you agreed to go to his apartment, how much you had to drink, if you thought you could screw him to get ahead, if you're just trying to get money from him... all these questions.

And the only thing you're "guilty" of is being raped.

Would you sign up for that?

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
31. The truth will never be known
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:57 PM
Nov 2014

Too much time has passed and evidence is long gone. He said, she said is all that is left. Granted their are 13 he said she saids, but still probably not enough for any resolution.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
12. And it's not just the media.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:15 AM
Nov 2014

There are several rape apologists here on DU accusing the victims of just wanting money or notoriety or both. When it was pointed out that 14 women had come out with essentially the same story, they retorted that they all heard the story from the first woman and used that as a basis for their stories. Honest to goddess, sometimes you just can't win for losing.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
13. yep.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:24 AM
Nov 2014

The tacit message in that kind of talk is "Women Lie. Fuck Them". That undertow is powerful...it sweeps away a lot of people.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
32. Why isn't that true though?
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:04 PM
Nov 2014

Except for the first woman, all the other women came forward - after hearing about what the first woman said (or some of them came forward after hearing about what two or more other women had said).

But what, also, if there is SOME truth to the stories. That is, they got together, got drunk, or even just had a few drinks, and had sex. No rufies involved, just some alcohol. Now, years later, these women are suspicious, even paranoid. "Hey, maybe I was rufied."

Does that make Cosby a predator? Myself, I don't have any experience with drinking and having amnesia the next morning. I don't drink. So, if I was persuaded, by an attractive celebrity, to have a few drinks, what are the chances that I would black out?

According to David Cassidy's autobiography "C'mon get happy" women all over the country were offering to have sex with him, an offer that he was happy to accept. Does a celebrity need rufies in order to "hook up"? Or even alcohol?

It's possible that Cosby did nothing more than have some drinks and have some consensual sex.

Cosby, of course, moralizer that he is, is supposed to be "better than" going around drinking and having sex, but then again, so are MLK, JFK, and Jesse Jackson. FDR (mistress) Eleanor Roosevelt (lesbian lover) and so on, and so on, and so on.

And that's not "apologizing" for somebody who actually rufied a bunch of women. IF that is what he did, that is inexcusable. It's saying that MAYBE, just maybe, the worst possible scenario is NOT the true one.

HoosierCowboy

(561 posts)
20. To avoid accusations of rape, Bill
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:20 AM
Nov 2014

Make sure it's on video, Rob Lowe and Charlie Sheen style.
Make sure evidence of consent to record is apparent.
After all, you are a star...
..and give her a copy for her scrapbook.

pink-o

(4,056 posts)
24. Jimmy Saville got away with being a predator all his life.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:16 PM
Nov 2014

The vile acts he committed never came out till after he was dead--as well as the extensive collusion from those with inside knowledge who hid it so well in order to shore up his loveable public persona. At least these allegations against Cosby (like Sandusky) are something he'll need to answer for while he's still able to!

If it were one person accusing him, we could probably reserve judgment. But I think the number is up to 20. Can't exactly go with the "Bitches be crazy" defense, can you, Cos?

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
37. it's hard to believe that
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 02:22 PM
Nov 2014

that somebody can get away with that for so long.

And people coming forward forty or fifty years later? Not that it is something that you'd forget (although, I have to admit, that at age 52 I do not remember much of anything from 1970, when I was 8), but really, how do you prove, or disprove, a forty year allegation?

I have to note as well, though, that it appears there may be some money involved "Savile's estate, believed to be worth about £4 million, was frozen by its executors, the NatWest bank, in view of the possibility that those alleging that they had been assaulted by Savile could make claims for damages."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile#Public_image_and_friendships

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
49. You don't think you'd remember being raped or sexually abused at the age of 8?
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:26 PM
Nov 2014

What?

It isn't like remembering what you had for dinner or a trip to the mall. People forget stuff like that.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
30. Don't underestimate the corollary: "Fuck the lying media (that lost
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:37 PM
Nov 2014

Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan and made those god-d*mned n*****s into victims.&quot

Any chance to revive the old stab-in-the-back shit is good enough for these yobs.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
36. or it could be because the people praising him
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:44 PM
Nov 2014

just cannot admit to themselves that THEY have "worshiped" a serial rapist for decades..

Seeing our "heroes" exposed is a hard thing to come to terms with..

For many people "never proved guilty in court" or "never charged with a crime" , may be enough for them to continue to close their minds to the possibility that smoke is often a sign of fire.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
38. I don't know that I think of him as a "hero" or "my idol"
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 02:53 PM
Nov 2014

That, of course, would be Billy.

But having listened to his album in the 1960s and 1970s and seen him on TV here and there., I do think of him as "an old friend". I don't "worship" him, but I "like" him and also feel like I "know" him.

The funny thing about "knowing" people is that you only know what you know. When I get together with my siblings over Thanksgiving I am probably not going to spend much time talking about the jars of urine that I have stored in my basement (which I only mention here because I do not actually have jars of urine in my basement. I am not actually gonna talk about here the actual things I do not talk about.)

So if instead, I got in a fatal car accident on my way to Thanksgiving dinner, they would be shocked to find THAT when going through my house. Hopefully they would not feel the need to broadcast that to the media. The media would not care anyway, but if I was famous, they would be only too happy to run stories about "the jars of urine in hfojvt's basement" in order to maybe sell a few more magazines or get people to watch their show.

Because, you know, a secret like that, or something bizarre like that, is much more worth talking about than anything positive I might have done, or tried to do. In fact, it negates anything positive that I did. Doesn't it?

Although, in this case, Cosby is not just being allegedly "odd" or doing "strange things". He is doing things where there are victims.

Then again, so do I. I take my dogs with me when I can, and some people complain about that. In fact, I recently paid a big fine for the "crime" of taking my dogs for a car ride on a hot day. And just the other night some dude was complaining because my dogs (in my car) were barking at his dogs. (And then there was the Iowan who came out of his front door to complain that my dog was peeing on his yard (again!!!). Yeah, his own dog lived in a little metal cage maybe six feet by ten feet. So I used to walk my dogs by his house every day when I walked my dogs, even though it was out of my way. I figured that it made that dog's day to see my dogs. Or at least it was a high-light in the day of that caged dog. But the dog's owner felt like he was a victim of my dog's urine, and came out his front door to yell at me and tell me so.

And that's why I started keeping it in jars in my basement.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
46. There is some truth to that, no doubt.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 08:48 PM
Nov 2014

However, though, there's also another factor at play: there are many people who are just so inclined to defend a beloved celebrity that they'll simply jump on the bandwagon, without thinking things through.

At this moment, the jury's still out, so any absolute judgements on this case would be somewhat premature, IMO.....but that's not at all intended to dismiss the (not insignificant, in my view) possibility that at least some of these allegations may in fact, check out.....

BKH70041

(961 posts)
47. I don't think some people like "The Court of Public Opinion."
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:03 PM
Nov 2014

It could be as much a backlash against those who have already decided he's guilty, and there's people out there who are sick of the court of public opinion ruining people's lives and careers, and so they decide to take the side opposite those who are proclaiming guilt.

That's not to say he's guilty or not guilty, just pointing out some people get tired of these things getting played out in public, so in this case there's a backlash of support.

Just a possibility to consider, that's all.

WhiteAndNerdy

(365 posts)
51. It's even worse than believing that the accusers are lying.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:43 PM
Nov 2014

Some people wouldn't care what happened to these women even if there was incontrovertible proof that they were telling the truth.

 

rudolph the red

(666 posts)
54. It's especially strange when you consider that his audience is primarily
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:34 PM
Nov 2014

older white people. The same old white people that are constantly accused of being ultra conservative and racist in their thinking.

MFM008

(19,730 posts)
56. The same bunch
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 02:09 AM
Nov 2014

that voted in this scumbag new congress . Im beginning to wonder about the wisdom in the movie Logans Run......

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