Bedford, Ohio Man Shot and Killed by Police

[JEFF9K]

If you read the article and the article linked within it, you may notice several interesting things, and, if you are open-minded enough, you may have some thoughts that go against the grain of dominant DU themes.

As of the time of this posting, there was no picture of the dead party.

http://www.cleveland.com/bedford/index.ssf/2014/12/man_shot_by_bedford_police_idd.html#incart_river

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Actually, I see nothing in that story that needs one to be 'open minded' or

'goes against the grain' of what DU folks discuss.

An officer is on administrative leave after shooting and killing a Bedford man with multiple convictions for violence against police.

(my bold)

Sounds like a white guy finally managed to get himself shot by police during a domestic dispute by charging officers while armed, after he had a long history of violent assaults on police.

If you're trying to wave a flag and say 'Look, police shoot white guys too!', I think you might note that long history of violence against police. Lots of black guys are getting shot the very first time they have a run-in with police. They don't get given the benefit of doubt that would allow them to build up those multiple convictions.

But even if this guy had been doing nothing wrong, had not already had 'multiple convictions for violence against police', had not been armed, and had managed to get himself shot, so what? That's what is called an 'anecdote'. It isn't representative of reality. You have to go to the statistics to see the real picture. And the statistics show your chances of being gunned down by police are far worse if your skin is darker-complected.

[JEFF9K]

10. At the time of the story ...

No one knew his color. So people had to stop and think. If it's a white guy, we don't care.

When it comes to police shootings, it's WHITE LIVES that don't matter! No one cares if they are killed by the cops, and it has always been that way.

I have personally known unarmed white guys who have been killed by the cops and NO ONE CARED! Some even celebrated the fact that a troublemaker had been eliminated.

Statistics show that more whites are killed by cops than blacks. And most of those killed by cops are criminals, for God's sake!

Few people at this site seem open-minded enough to even consider these facts.

Bad policing is a problem that has been blown out of proportion, and the racial aspect has been unnecessarily added, with harmful effect. All that was needed were orderly protests calling for reform. Instead we get riots and other actions that are sure to drive independents away from the Democratic Party.

[JaneyVee]

13. The racial aspect has been unnecessarily added? By whom?

Statistics also show that there are more white people in America also. But statistics also show that blacks are targeted at a higher rate as a percentage.

[JEFF9K]

18. There are socio-economic reasons behind the demographics of crime.

[JI7]

46. You assume they are all criminals

Black men regardless of their income are often stopped by police because they are driving while black.

[JEFF9K]

47. Most people who are arrested are indeed criminals.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. I don't actually want police killing anyone.

The right to 'LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' is pretty explicit in my books. Life is #1, the big cheese. The state should not be in the business of killing citizens, period. No execution by cop, no executions by electric chair, lethal drug mix, or anything else. We need to rewrite the second amendment, get tons of guns off the streets, and make it so police ONLY pull out guns after 'shots fired' and nothing else is working. There simply shouldn't be an automatic armed response based on 'fear'.

[dilby]

2. Not sure how this goes against the grain.

I am pretty sure most DU members will agree that sometimes lethal force needs to be used when dealing with an armed person. In this situation it appears the officer tried non-lethal force before resorting to it. I would need to get the full story but as far as I can tell this is looks like a reasonable use of lethal force.

[JEFF9K]

12. The "grain" here is ...

* All cops are guilty until proven innocent. Then they are still guilty!

* Lethal force isn't necessary, a taser will stop anyone.

* Cops kill only blacks. This "victim" must be black. In the unlikely event that he's isn't, we don't care about him.

* Etc, etc, etc. ...

[blm]

30. That's not the grain. What's been happening lately is UNARMED black youth

Last edited Mon Dec 29, 2014, 12:04 PM - Edit history (1)

without a long history of violence being shot and killed at a rate faster than armed whites.

I suppose the 'grain' you adhere to is that every cop who killed an unarmed black male had to do it, eh? Do you go to Free Republic and scold them about the 'grains' they demonstrate, or, do you not bother scolding those you agree with?

[onecaliberal]

34. I'm so sick of being accused of hating all cops

Because I oppose police brutality. Take your tired bullshit somewhere else already.

[blm]

42. ^^^

Sick of the BIG LIES being used to advance their excusethebadcopstoo agenda.

[Logical]

43. And here is what YOUR "grain" is....

* every police shooting is justified
* police are never wrong
* police never harass innocent citizens

[MrScorpio]

3. OK, what's the catch?

Anybody?

[justiceischeap]

4. Well, obviously we won't be in an uproar about it because he's white

at least that's the insinuation I get from the OP. Or maybe because he thinks that many DU'ers feel that deadly force in any situation is outrageous. Nuance certainly doesn't seem to apply to the OP.

[MrScorpio]

6. Maybe this will help:

[JEFF9K]

14. Nuance.

The post is totally open to nuance.

[yuiyoshida]

5. no idea..

"go against the grain of dominant DU themes."

[GeorgeGist]

7. I'll wait for the video.

[Comrade Grumpy]

8. Many police shootings are justified. It's the unjustified ones that give people problems.

[haele]

9. Nothing that goes against the grain at all.

It's not news or unusual when police do what they're supposed to be doing - trying to defuse a violent situation and only shooting when talk and tazer fails.
Now, if he had been shot after going down from the tazer, we have another discussion - of police over-reaction and a "comply or die" attitude that many departments have.
I don't know what the Bedford police department is like. They may be a very understanding, community friendly police force. This might be an anomaly - especially if the guy had a history of run-is with the local police.

If you're suggesting it's a black/white issue - that's a whole 'nother issue that's part of the Venn diagram between the meeting point of racial politics and the politics of justice. That's the discussion that Michael Brown, Eric Gardner, and all the others fall into.

Haele

[Katashi_itto]

11. Lame attempt at flame bait

[JEFF9K]

16. I left the post open to interpretation.

You find nothing about the articles that make you think?

[blm]

45. It's cut and dry, why should anyone pretend otherwise?

Why pretend it is in any way similar to the shootings that were being protested?

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Oooof

The OP's smug self-satisfaction is cringe-worthy, of course, and deplorable to anybody with a sense of decency.

That he does these absurdist victory dances over dead bodies tells me all I need to know about his character, though.

[JEFF9K]

17. You know nothing about me.

Don't accuse me of ridiculous things that live in your imagination.

The opening post is essentially without opinion. Comment about the story, not about me.

[rbrnmw]

22. no we don't know you

your posting history however tells us you have a pattern of these types of posts

[JEFF9K]

23. Each thread stands on its own.

You are keeping track of me? I think that's called stalking.

And everything I post is fact and fact-based opinion.

So you have a problem with "these types of posts?"

I don't think a site with "Democratic" in the title is a place for mindless bandwagon jumping.

[rbrnmw]

25. The OP was flamebait

I'm not stalking anyone I have read your post in other threads about cops. When one has reading comprehension skills they don't need to stalk you to notice a pattern
Have a Lovely Weekend

[GGJohn]

26. Oh, I get it now,

we're supposed to walk in lockstep.
How could I have missed that? Something YOU don't agree with is flamebait? Thanks for clearing that up.
Just in case this is needed.

[Logical]

44. You post a flame bait post then whine when people call you out! Classic! nt

[randys1]

27. Indeed

[onecaliberal]

35. You did not tell people here not to accuse you of a train of

Thought when that is exactly what your entire post was about. Welcome to the dust bin.

[KingCharlemagne]

19. Why so friggin' coy? - nt

[JEFF9K]

24. Try posting fact-based opinion ...

that doesn't agree with the mainstream here and you will see why.

[GGJohn]

28. Beware of the purity police, one wrong step and you're labeled.

FWIW, I enjoy reading your comments.

[KingCharlemagne]

33. So, in response to my question asking why you are so coy, you respond with

still more coyness? Why do you even bother posting here if you have to be so passive-aggressive? Not trying to drive you away, merely encourage you to declare yourself forthrightly (provided doing so doesn't violate the site's ToS).

[TheKentuckian]

37. I've noticed that a near sure sign someone is full of shit and pressing an agenda is constantly

insisting they are fact based and/or has the need to make people aware they are part of "the reality based community".

It is also near universally a statement made by conservatives and regressives and they make such ststements usually to frame something delusional to flat out fabrication as something other than what it is.

[99Forever]

20. If you have a point...

... make it. That is, if you have the spine to do so.

[JEFF9K]

31. If, after reading the linked articles, YOU have something to say ABOUT THE STORY, say it!

I'm guessing that YOU have never gone out on a limb by posting threads that disagree, by using facts, with dominant themes at this site.

[99Forever]

40. I prefer not to chase your point. It's up to you to make.

Apparently you can't make a cogent argument for whatever it is, yourself. So I'll have to pass on going down your rabbit hole.

[rbrnmw]

21. I see it as White Privilege

he had history of violence against police. the first time a black man even unarmed says anything the officer says he "feels" was a threat to his safety he is dead therefore he can't have a long history of violence towards police.
in fact many times without words being exchanged he is dead.

[JEFF9K]

29. You can't back that up.

You can't possibly know the inner workings of the cops' minds.

How many people "say anything" to the cops and are then shot and killed?

I would guess the percentage of "shot and killed for saying something" to arrests is less than 0.0001%.

[rbrnmw]

32. I have no desire to engage you

Good Afternoon

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Correct answer...if DU is not going to recognize patterns of abusive behavior, then its members can

do so on their own.

There's no need to debate with racists. Call them out and move on.

[TheKentuckian]

38. You can't support your opinions either.

[MrScorpio]

39. Finally...

The other shoe drops