How sure are you of Zimmerman's guilt?

[Skip Intro]

Not to step on the other thread out there, but that one is asking for the likely legal outcome. This is different.

I'm asking where you are on the guilt of Zimmerman.

38 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Time expired
	Certain he is guilty of racial profiling and stalking and cold-blooded murder.
	9 (24%)
	Certain he is guilty of one or two of the above, but not all three.
	3 (8%)
	Feel he is probably guilty of racial profiling and stalking and cold-blooded murder.
	3 (8%)
	Feel he is probably guilty of one or two of the above, but not all three.
	3 (8%)
	Certain he is not guilty of racial profiling or stalking or cold-blooded murder.
	1 (3%)
	Feel he is probably not guilty of racial profiling or stalking or cold blooded murder.
	0 (0%)
	Feel there is not enough reliable proof of guilt or innocence as of now, so withholding judgment.
	19 (50%)
	Other.
	0 (0%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Deep13]

1. I only know what's on TV, so I have no idea. nt

[Vattel]

2. I really don't know, but if I had to guess, I would guess

that he did racially profile but is not guilty of cold-blooded murder. As for stalking, it depends pn how that term is defined.

[RZM]

4. Exactly

I believe he singled out Trayvon because of his age, race, and clothing. I don't believe he set out to kill the young man. I believe the shooting occurred as a result of a struggle between the two.

As for 'stalking,' I don't know what exactly that would mean in this situation. He certainly followed him against the advice of the dispatcher. I don't know if you call that 'following,' 'stalking,' or something else entirely.

[frazzled]

3. I believe he is guilty of what he is charged with

Second-degree murder. That is to say, "a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance."

None of the things you mention in the poll are things he is charged with. But he killed someone, he's admitted to that. If he was truly fearful for his life he wouldn't have gone chasing after this kid. He appears to have been a gun-toting, self-important, self-appointed vigilante, and at some moment he decided to pull the trigger on an innocent child. He appointed himself Mr. Law and Order and he has to suffer the consequences of what he did. He didn't have to be there; he didn't have to be carrying a gun; he didn't have to follow the kid. He thought he was a big man; now it's time to get a man's punishment. A life is gone, and he took it.

There's no way a black man would have gotten away with this if the tables were turned.

[etherealtruth]

11. Well said

There is no dispute whether Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid walking with Skittles and Iced tea in his pockets. There is no dispute that Zimmerman followed this kid ... leading to an altercation.

A 17 year old kid is dead

[TexasProgresive]

5. I am withholding judgement of Zimmerman

But I hold the prosecutor and police chief to be guilty of suppression of evidence and interfering with an on going investigation. Lock em up!

[DevonRex]

6. Other. I don't like the terminology in the poll at all.

I believe he is guilty of the crime with which he is charged: second degree murder.

I believe he racially profiled Trayvon Martin and decided he was "suspicious" because of it. I believe he followed young Mr. Martin in a stalking manner. There is also a crime called stalking, which has a specific legal definition that is specific to the jurisdiction. But he is not charged with that crime.

[Little Star]

7. Not sure about the cold blooded murder....

Isn't that murder one?

I feel he stalked Trayvon but maybe there is a better word for what he did.

He definitely racially profiled but that was not the only profiling he did. Can that be proven? I hope so.

I also think he is guilty of 2nd degree murder but don't know what the jury will decide, perhaps manslaughter?

[Deep13]

8. Let's be clear on what we mean by "murder."

Different states have slightly different definitions, but the general rule defines murder as:

"Unlawful killing of a human being (homicide) with malice aforethought."

"Malice" is not a general bad feeling, but one of a few specific mental states: intent to kill; intent to cause grievous, bodily injury; wanton recklessness causing an extreme risk to human life (depraved heart); committing a felony that results in a fatality (felony-murder).

"Cold blood" is not an element. The term "cold blood" means that a killing was deliberate and in the immediate presence of the defendant.

The difference between first and second degree murder, as most states call it, is the degree of prior planning. First degree murder is planned ahead of time, sometimes as part of a conspiracy. Second degree murder still has "malice aforethought," but indicates a victim of opportunity with no prior planning. Some states have other aggravating factors that can raise a murder from second to first degree.

AFAIK, in every state with a death penalty, only the worst degree of murder is eligible for capital punishment. The Zimmerman case is not indicted for the worst form of murder, so it is not capital eligible.

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Oh come on... It was a "thrill killing". A popular DU'er saw it in his eyes during his arraignment.

And he just knew. How could it NOT be murder if it was a "thrill killing"?

Other popular DU'ers agreed with the assessment.

Besides, any discussion that doesn't lead to you agreeing Zimmerman is guilty of first-degree murder means you're a racist gun-nut. A certain feline female has decreed it to be so. Haven't you been reading the threads?

[Deep13]

33. No, I have not read them.

I pick and choose. It sounds like neither of us let popular opinion make our minds up for us.

It really looks like GZ meant to kill TM and had no valid defense. As messed up as our justice system is, however, I still think it will do a better job finding the truth than popular group think.

[peace13]

9. Guilty of not standing down when he was told to by 911 and then somehow became so afraid...

that he had to shoot in self defense. Really, if he had parked his butt in the car like he was told to none of this would have happened and a young man would be alive today! And ....another young man would not be in jail. With so many questions and polls my guess is that the shooter will be free in no time and since he has had other anger issues will live to shoot another day. Very sad. So glad I do not live in FL. I wouldn't even take a trip there at with this law on the books.

[ohiosmith]

10. :

[ellisonz]

12. Should have gone for the manslaughter charge.

[Deep13]

13. Why?

Anyway, manslaughter is a lesser included offense in many cases. If the jury feels he had some reason for self defense, but not a really solid case for lethal force, then they can convict of voluntary manslaughter.

[ellisonz]

14. Easier case to make.

Anyone know if Florida juries in fact are allowed to consider lower charges?

[woolldog]

15. yes

which is why it makes sense to charge for murder 2

[shimonitanegi]

16. I really hope there will be justice for Martin,

and a warning that you just can't kill an unarmed innocent kid just because your sick mind think he or she looks suspicious.

[-..__...]

17. 40% (as of this post), that should never be allowed to serve...

on DU or court room jury duty.

(Certain he is guilty of racial profiling and stalking and cold-blooded murder).

[HangOnKids]

20. Too Bad So Sad You Have No Control Over That

Democracy is messy.

[-..__...]

22. That might be all fine and well in a web forum...

but I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be a defendant in a legal proceeding, and be judged by a juror whom is already convinced of my guilt.

[HangOnKids]

26. Happens all the time

And it can go the other way, my niece was brutally murdered in San Diego in 1990 and the media went on a roll with the defendant. The jury acquitted him. Sad day.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. I'd like to see a poll asking

"During voir dire, knowing what you know at this very moment, would you lie about your objectivity in this matter in order to be seated on the jury if you knew in your heart Zimmerman was guilty?

I'd be willing to bet more than a few would answer an unqualified YES.

[opihimoimoi]

18. 100 % sure..... period....bet my life on it...profiler does not meet SYG code.

[-..__...]

19. Dare to disagree...

and you're a Zimmerman apologist, racist, RW troll.

You, I and roughly 60% of the other voters here are being alerted on right now as I post this.

[Electric Monk]

23. You'll be happy to know that I just alerted on your post. Not 60% of other DUers, just yours.

See also: Exhibit B http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002471753
and exhibit C: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002591159

We'll see how that turns out. Who knows, you may get lucky?

[Electric Monk]

30. You got lucky. Jury voted 3-3.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Apr 24, 2012, 09:49 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Play nice.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: post is disruptive
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Because this response was made to a silly reply in a polling thread I voted to Leave It Alone. In any other OP I would probably have hidden it.

[coalition_unwilling]

21. I'm reasonably certain that Zimmerman was racially profiling and

stalking, but reserving judgment on the 'cold-blooded murder' (2nd degree), mainly because I have not studied the evidence and testimony (such as it is), nor am I an expert in the law.

[Marr]

24. Which part is in dispute?

He followed an unarmed 17 year old boy and shot him dead. I'm not sure I see where the possibility of innocence even comes into it. That's not "standing your ground".

Will he be legally convicted? Who knows. Justice and law are completely different things.

[KeepItReal]

25. Trayvon Martin either was killed in cold blood or was using self-defense when killed

Zimmerman was the aggressor who initiated contact by following and confronting an innocent 17 year old trying to get back to a residence.

How complicated is that?

If you come after me and I respond in self-defense, do you still get to kill me without consequence?

[unionworks]

28. A jury will decide

After seeing the evidence. And I am grateful for the work of Rev. Al and others who worked so hard to see it got a trial.

[Blue_In_AK]

31. I spent too many years working in the legal biz to rush to judgment before all the evidence is known

I'd probably be a great juror on this case.

[socialist_n_TN]

32. An UNARMED kid is dead by his hand, in a confrontation.........

that HE initiated. I don't like bullies and he is the epitome of a bully.

If Martin had actually been armed himself, he would have STILL been guilty of initiating the confrontation and would have been MORE culpable than Martin. But Martin WAS NOT armed. That's murder in my book.