NO! Not just a "supermarket"...

[PCIntern]

It was a KOSHER, thus JEWISH-ORIENTED supermarket...products purchased largely by JEWS because of their religious beliefs, cultural preferences, and kosher-dietary restrictions.

Believe me, when the next cell of these bastards hits a church or a Christian/Catholic shrine or service of a religious nature, you'll be hearing about exactly which sect of Catholicism/Protestantism it is, and well that you should. Making it secular ain't gonna work.

[bravenak]

1. I noticed they picked a certain 'type' of supermarket.

[JDDavis]

2. Hypercasher was the name "casher" in French means "Kosher"

Just an FYI.

[uppityperson]

76. It is Hyper Cacher, not casher, still means "super kosher".

wiki
Hyper Cacher (pronounced: [i.pɛʁ.ka.ʃe]; also Hypercacher or HyperCacher; translated as "super kosher"[1]) is a chain of kosher supermarkets in France.




Sorry, not meaning to nitpick, just adding information. And

[Cha]

78. Mahalo, appreciate it.

[HappyMe]

3. It was not at all random choice

by those murderers. They knew who they were targeting.

[PCIntern]

4. Yes:

some of the posts and some news coverage I've heard the word 'supermarket' is used. It was a VERY PARTICULAR PLACE AND TIME. This needs to be accentuated.

[HappyMe]

5. FWIW I believe that they did

state on ABC news that it is a Jewish market, and that the French Jewish community was preparing for an attack at museums and synagogues.

Four lives lost simply because they needed some items for dinner.

[PCIntern]

6. Yes...

almost all media are reporting this properly including the networks. I was exhorting individuals to understand that this in particular was as significant as a strike against a synagogue during High Holy Days AFAIC.

[HappyMe]

7. Even though it was a market, it is

an attack on Jewish people and their faith because of the need to make your purchases in a timely fashion.

It's frightening. I don't know what can be done to stop this.

[Aerows]

12. I don't think many on DU

are intentionally leaving out that it was a Kosher store, it's just the news reports have been so jumbled. I wasn't aware until I read a post earlier that many of these shoppers were getting ready for a Jewish holiday.

I'm not Jewish, so I did not know this. It's clear this wasn't random and wasn't an accidental choice of market to start shooting in. I also read that they robbed a gas station, holding the worker there at gunpoint and ordered them to fill up their vehicle.

There's so much going on, it's hard to keep up .

Absolutely horrific.

[Yo_Mama]

35. Yes, and now all the Jewish shops in Le Marais are closed

The French police consider it to be a "religiously" motivated choice:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-supermarket-siege-police-order-all-shops-famous-le-marais-jewish-quarter-closed-1482706

French police have ordered all shops closed in the famous Le Marais Jewish quarter of the French capital following a new hostage situation at a Jewish grocery in eastern Paris.

The mayor of Paris' office announced the closure of the shops in the Jewish neighbourhood, which lies approximately 1km away from the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo where 12 people were killed by Islamist brothers earlier this week.

The guy who took the hostages at the Vincennes kosher market had been sentenced to prison for attempting to break out another Muslim terrorist, Ali Belkacem, who bombed a rail station in 1995.

More:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/01/09/suspect-at-french-market-linked-to-terror-brothers/21500121/

[Sopkoviak]

8. Ok, so what does this have to do with the United States and Abu Ghraib?

CNN's Jim Sciutto reported that....




And Anwar Al-Awacky, a U.S. citizen btw, was droned in Yemen by the current administration.

So which is it?

[leftynyc]

9. Does it really matter?

These animals are just looking for an excuse to murder.

[bravenak]

10. That's pretty much it.

[Aerows]

16. Animals looking for an excuse to murder

is the most apt way to describe this depravity.

[HappyMe]

13. I'm sure the 'why'

doesn't matter in the least to the dead, nor does it matter to their families.

[Ilsa]

15. Yes and another terrorist said they had been

Motivated to train because of Abu Ghraib. It's an excuse, but we don't need to provide disenfranchised people excuses to become radicalized.

[Aerows]

19. There's nothing more disenfranchised

though, than the people that were summarily executed by these hateful terrorists and their family and friends.

[Ilsa]

69. Exactly right. Please

don't misunderstand me: I have zero sympathy for these cowards. Their behavior cannot be justified by any prior actions on our part.

My point is that our military, intelligence, and police services have to do their jobs without further emotionally incentivizing these bastards.

[KingCharlemagne]

29. The photos from Abu Ghraib were the precipitating event in at least one of the brothers'

radicalization (or so he told a French judge long before these attacks). The efforts of the U.S. government (Bush administration) to cover Abu Ghraib up by only prosecuting low-level enlisted GI's probably did not help.

No one, AFAIK, has said that Abu Ghraib was the motive for these attacks.

Abu Ghraib (or maybe the illegal invasion and occupation in 2003), one could argue, was the sine qua non, necessary but not sufficient to explain the motivation or trigger for the attacks.

[BainsBane]

31. The cartoonists at Charlie Ebdo had nothing to do with the killing of al-Awlaki

so if their plan was revenge for that, they missed their target by a few thousand miles.

[Igel]

67. Sense can be made of it.

You have to play "find the presupposition."

From a certain kind of fundie mindset, there's the "righteous" and various other groups, all neatly organized and categorized.

The West is Xian. That's one of the primary categories. Just as "Egypt" or "Syrian", "Arab" or "Persian" is less important than "Muslim," so "French"and "American" are trivial differences among "Christians." And that's the war: Western Xians versus the ummah.

Jews are often billed as colleagues or the overlords. Both they and Xians should be subservient to the greater revelation.

Whether the Yemeni/al-Awlaki stuff turns out true or not, this is still a common bifurcating of the available demographic space.

[leftynyc]

11. Changed my avatar

to reflect solidarity with those Jews killed today for the crime of getting ready for Shabbos.

[Aerows]

14. I didn't realize the significance

of this being related to a Jewish holiday until I read some of these posts. It was certainly no accident that they chose that particular market and at this particular time .

Horrible.

[leftynyc]

20. Not really a holiday

Just the Sabbath which is every Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown (sorry, I used the Hebrew word for Sabbath without thinking about it).

[CTyankee]

49. My Orthodox neighbors need to get to their kosher market prior to Sabbath

because they are forbidden to shop or cook on the Sabbath, as I understand it. They walk to shul on my street for services since their synagogue is near my house. Whole families surging along...they are permitted to have babies in strollers but must not drive anywhere. It is truly a day of rest and contemplation.

We also have a mikva close to our house. I have an orthodox friend who tells me that experiencing the mikva is wonderful. To her, it is very meaningful in her faith.

[leftynyc]

55. You're not supposed to do any work

during the Sabbath. The term Shabbos Goy was coined for gentiles who would come to Jewish homes and turn on (or off) the lights and do anything else that cannot be done. It's said that Pablo Picasso was a Shabbos Goy and that's why his museum in Paris is in the Marais (historically a very Jewish section of Paris). I have family that has a big Sabbath dinner every Friday and it's wonderful going there. Lots of food, songs, laughter and best of all, family. That's what these shoppers who were killed were getting ready for.

I've never done the mikva but women have told me it's a very spiritually cleansing experience.

[CTyankee]

58. Our house was owned by an Orthodox family. I left the mezuzah on the inside of the

front door because I felt it made our house extra special. My husband converted to reform Judaism (and his daughter is now a rabbi with her own congregation in AZ). I am not any religion, altho I have a niece who is a Methodist minister.

[leftynyc]

61. Wow

A rabbi and a minister in the family - that's what I call being covered!!! I'm feeling a pull to attend services tonight or tomorrow. I'm sure all the shuls are going to be packed. I have a beautiful mezuzah a friend brought me back from Israel - was made by a Syrian artist.

[CTyankee]

72. that's exactly what I say, "I'm covered!"

I hope your visit to shul and the services restore you and help with the awful occurrence of this attack.

[leftynyc]

77. It was a wonderful service tonight

The shul was, as I expected, much more crowded than is usual and it seems many felt as I did, we just wanted to "connect" with eachother (by the way, security was tighter than usual also, cops at all exits). I went to my sister's shul which is more conservative than mine (we went for dinner together) but I do love her rabbi (he did my dad's funeral). I'm very glad I went.

[grossproffit]

27. I did too. Thank you for leading the way.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Hollande calls it an horrendous act of anti-semitism

Good point, PC. The last terrorist mass shooter went to a Jewish school in France. Last year.

[frylock]

18. all the reports i heard this morning on NPR referred to it as a kosher market

fwiw

[staggerleem]

21. I feel compelled to mention ...

... that the rules governing "kosher" and "halal" foods are pretty much the same. You'll find many of the same products in a halal market that you will in a kosher one. There's a very popular food truck outside CBS's building on 57th St. in NYC called "The Halal Guys", and it's rare that I pass by and do not see at least one Hassidic Jew on their line.

So, even if it was a Kosher market, it's quite possible that some Muslims shop there fairly regularly. So, it was not necessarily an attack exclusively on Jews.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. And why is it you felt "complled" to mention this? How is it relevant?

Does it have to be a synagogue for it to be an "exclusive" attack on Jews?

[mulsh]

25. you must admit that selecting kosher rather than halal sends a specific message

to those receptive to it. I'm a Northern California Irish Catholic, we don't have many Kosher of Halal stores out here and I get their message loud and clear.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

28. True, but if you know who lives in the area

you will have a pretty good idea of who shops there.

[Warpy]

30. It was to a bunch of ignorant Jihadists who were so hopped up on hate and heresy

that they had never observed where their own mothers did the shopping. As you say, the rules are so close that many observant Jews and Muslims just go to whatever is closest, stopping at the official one to stock up once a month.

I just wonder if the same crazy cleric is involved in this one, too, or if it's a copycat.

[WinkyDink]

38. It was a Kosher market, not a Halal one. Not in the Muslim area. Try to get real.

[SidDithers]

45. Sure. You go on believing that...

Sid

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. That doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

What if they attacked a Synagogue that some Christians attend?

What if they beat up a gay man who had a girlfriend in high school?

What if they targeted a black person who had a white ancestor?

Oh nevmind. I don't feel like wasting my breath and giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. You go on with your compulsion.

[840high]

52. I think in this case

it was exclusively on Jews.

[JI7]

70. HAHAHHAHAHAH

[Fozzledick]

22. BDST in action

The goal of the "BDS" movement is to incite and provoke just this kind of hatred and violence.

[Marrah_G]

26. Watching BBC and they have clearly talked about it being Jewish

They have also spoken about the rise in antisemitism in France and security measures Temples and schools take.

[Warpy]

32. Yes, that fascist Le Pen has been creating almost as much mischief

as the mad Muslim clerics have. Sadly, all this is going to give his party of xenophobic nutballs a huge boost as frightened people look for simple solutions.

[WinkyDink]

39. And your complex solution would be?

[Warpy]

42. Mine would be a continuation of good police work and international cooperation

so that none of these clowns associated with problem clerics could hop on planes to fly off to known terrorist training sites. Clip their wings, slow them down.

Sometimes that's the best you can do.

[leftynyc]

57. I'd start with harsher sentencing for

those convicted of crimes concerning terrorism.

[Lobo27]

33. It seems many almost try to justify what these monsters did.

The US did this, Charlie Hedbo shouldn't have done what they did, there is no work for them. You name it. Last time a fucking checked nothing justifies senseless murder. NOTHING AT ALL.

[840high]

53. Agree. Nothing at all.

[Kablooie]

34. MSNBC was consistently referring to the "Kosher Supermarket"

[m-lekktor]

36. people are trying their damndest to de-religion this discussion

"they weren't islamists there were just "terrorists" blah blah blah."

these "progressives" are not doing anybody any favors by putting fascistic religious views above criticism and calling people bigots who rightly call it out.

[Lobo27]

37. I don't understand what is the fear in saying they were Islamic terrorists.

I don't get why liberals get so protective when it comes to Islam, but have no issue going ape shit on Christianity. I was here last year when the Catholics were the Whipping Boys.

Conservatives do the same shit. Muslims are bad and Christians are good.

Yesterday someone was saying that people shouldn't depict the prophet because it pisses Muslims off. With that thinking how can you then go tell another religion to not do something because it pisses you off?

[WinkyDink]

40. IKR? Then it's diluted to "But...but...the INQUISITION!" "Colonialism!" "ALL religions!" FEH.

[Flatulo]

50. You have to understand, this is DU – by no means a representative sampling of people.

Most people IRL aren't afraid to call out Islamic radical bullshit as they see fit.

On DU, if you speak too plainly about Islamic terror, your post will get hidden and you will offend plenty of delicate sensibilities. You will be called a bigot and a hatemonger.

It is perfectly okay to bash Christianity and Christians because abortion mumble and McVay mumble mumble. And the Crusades.

Again, most people see right through the PC nonsense. They're just afraid to speak their minds in this forum.

[LanternWaste]

56. That's a rather creative allegation lacking any supporting evidence.

That's a rather creative allegation lacking any supporting evidence.

[Flatulo]

63. Hahahaahh, stop, you're killing me...

[leftynyc]

60. They sure are

Unfortunately it was pathetically predictable and I'm sure anyone who has been here any length of time isn't in the least surprised.

[Depaysement]

41. Well . . .

The first paragraph is plainly true.

The second paragraph is demonstrably false. Churches are bombed often in Nigeria, Iraq, Malaysia, Tanzania and other places. Those attacks are never front page news.

[Barack_America]

43. Which news source have you been watching?

I have not heard a breath of air wasted in claiming this was secular.

[moondust]

44. CNN: Muslims shop there, too, for ethnic/religious foods.

Also reporting that the gunman said he "wanted to go after Jews."

[Rex]

46. I never once thought it was just to hit a large group of shoppers randomly.

A Kosher market getting hit was a message being sent imo. You are so right, this was not just a random public place.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. Apparently it is flying over the heads of some...on purpose?

#notJustJewsShopthere

[Rex]

51. Dunno, it is as clear as day to me.

Islamic militants hit a Kosher market...how can anyone not understand the message being sent? OKAY so maybe some others do shop there too - with our thinking caps on - WHO shops at a Kosher market the most?

I'm not going to go look at that #hashtag, it will just piss me off.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. The hashtag was sarcasm, not real.

It was my way of expressing disdain for those who seem to try to keep pretending the target wasn't significant.

[Blue_Tires]

74. No, it was never a "random" target

Since this operation seemed too well organized to leave anything to chance...

That target was hand-picked in advance, and easier than usual to take with so much police attention on other parts of the city/country...I think if the plot had gone exactly as planned, the kosher food store was going to be "leverage" to let the other two fugitives flee the country

[denverbill]

59. I don't understand your point. These religious nutjobs murdered 12 anti-religious/ambigiously

religious political satirists yesterday. Most likely, all the cartoonists they murdered were moderates and liberals. I'd be willing to bet NONE of them were religious nutjobs, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.

But now because they hole up in a Jewish market and likely killed some Jewish hostages, it somehow makes them worse?

I don't know but I get the feeling conservatives were having a hard time condemning these terrorist assholes because they killed a bunch of liberal eggheads yesterday. But now that they have targeted a group many conservatives have found a sudden love for (Jews, even though conservatives have traditionally hated them), now, I'm supposed to feel this is an even worse group?

[leftynyc]

62. I don't see anyone here

telling you you're SUPPOSED to feel anything.

[PCIntern]

64. If you don't understand my point,

then I might suggest that you step back and think about what is going on in this world, in this country, in every other country, and even on DU during the past few years with respect to the Jews of the world.

No...it doesn't make the perps WORSE...I obviously wasn't talking about THEM, I was talking about how the media has covered it almost universally that it was a Kosher, thus Jewish, establishment. A few sites and a few posters here were referring to the site as a 'supermarket'. It wasn't just a supermarket. It was targeted for its customers' background.

[denverbill]

65. What exactly has been going on on DU with respect to Jews which is so horrible?

I see, and frequently agree with, a lot of posts regarding Israel and it's actions regarding the Palestinians.

I also see, and almost always agree with, a lot of posts criticizing religious fundamentalism, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.

But what I don't see, and would completely oppose, are posts criticizing or attacking Jews generally, or Catholics, or Christians for that matter.

Yes, these religious nutjobs killed a bunch of their sworn enemies, cartoonists, then chose to make their last stand in a place they knew was frequented by some of their other enemies, Jews. How is that unexpected, any more than if a right-wing Christian shot up a mosque and then took hostages in a predominantly black church? I don't either situation demonstrates that Jews in Europe particularly worse situation than they were before these attacks because I don't think Muslim extremists in Europe pose the same threat to Jews as anti-Jewish conservatives did in the mid-20th century.

[JI7]

71. the bigger point is people are always denying or downplaying targeted attacks on Jews, it has

nothing to do with one being worse/more important than the other.

it's about people denying what is happening.

[denverbill]

73. OK maybe I get that point to a degree.

But the first article I read about this pointedly stated it was a kosher grocery store, and it did not come as any big surprise to me that religious extremists would target a store like this.

If the post is saying people are deliberately omitting the fact it was kosher in order to hide the fact that it was an attack aimed at Jews, I can kind of see that. I just don't think anyone is deliberately omitting that though.

[JI7]

75. i believe the OP is more aimed at some of the stuff that you see on this forum rather

than any specific article itself.

[applegrove]

66. And apparently Kosher food marts often have many muslim

customers as they have much of the same religious restrictions of food. This one was no different.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

68. People who live in the area most likely shop there

And I wonder how many Muslims live in that area?

If this store was chosen because it was Jewish, I would imagine that the terrorists had a pretty good idea who shopped in that store.