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bigtree

(85,996 posts)
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 01:26 PM Jan 2015

Righteousness of our 'American Snipers'

I read some reviews of the new Clint Eastwood film, 'American Sniper,' which immediately meshed in my mind with a conversation I had this week with a veteran of the Iraq invasion and occupation under Bush. I had steered my veteran conversationalist into a revealing discussion of the roots of his own visible anger and antipathy he expressed often toward the people of the nation where he was deployed and tasked with defending his own troops, along with American interests, against whoever resisted our military's strident advance. In his view, admittedly grossly simplified in my interpretation, American forces represented all that was right and good; and Iraqis, resisting or not, were despicable enemies who deserved whatever retribution our nation's defenders imposed on them.

Lindy West, in The Guardian, describes the real-life individual in the new film who is portrayed by actor Bradley Cooper:

"Chris Kyle, a US navy Seal from Texas, was deployed to Iraq in 2003 and claimed to have killed more than 255 people during his six-year military career. In his memoir, Kyle reportedly described killing as “fun”, something he “loved”; he was unwavering in his belief that everyone he shot was a “bad guy”. “I hate the damn savages,” he wrote. “I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the Iraqis.” He bragged about murdering looters during Hurricane Katrina, though that was never substantiated..."


My young veteran discussant is remarkably in agreement with me about the foolishness and folly of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, yet, even as he expresses agreement that Americans have no business committing soldiers to fight and die in that country, he's just as adamantly convinced in a remarkable and appalling dehumanization of the Iraqi people that they all deserve to die; in his estimation, at the point of a U.S. nuclear attack which would 'wipe them all out.'

Delving deeper into his reasoning this week, he makes clear to me where the seeds of his revulsion for Iraqis lies. It appears that he lost quite a few of his close comrades in arms during the Iraq deployments in nearly 10-year enlistment in the Army; many of those under his command while serving as a Staff Sgt. in the infantry. That's enough said from him, to me. I'm not going to make broad judgments about the righteousness or banality of his personal view. I wasn't there and I can't put myself anywhere near his own experiences to make those judgments for him. I can only express my own revulsion toward any killing; justified, rationalized, or not; certainly opposed with all of my heart and mind to any suggestion that the entire country of Iraqis deserve to die to assuage American fears or any perceived defense of our nation or interests.

Yet, it is precisely those same kinds of vengeful and defensive sentiments expressed by this young veteran which compel many Americans to support continued military attacks against Iraqis and others in the region where our troops are deployed which are faceless, even nameless, to the vast majority of us. I would imagine its that same dichotomy between fearful Americans and our new Iraqi-based nemesis which inspires the similar storyline in this latest war film from Eastwood.

Lindy West writes in the The Guardian:

"...much of the US right wing appears to have seized upon 'American Sniper' with similarly shallow comprehension – treating it with the same unconsidered, rah-rah reverence that they would the national anthem or the flag itself. Only a few weeks into its release, the film has been flattened into a symbol to serve the interests of an ideology that, arguably, runs counter to the ethos of the film itself. How much, if at all, should Eastwood concern himself with fans who misunderstand and misuse his work? If he, intentionally or not, makes a hero out of Kyle – who, bare minimum, was a racist who took pleasure in dehumanising and killing brown people – is he responsible for validating racism, murder, and dehumanisation? Is he a propagandist if people use his work as propaganda?"


That same sentiment runs through the reasoning of my young vet who, despite anguishing about the time spent away from his family, even now, with his civilian job, expressed a desire this week to re-enlist; to go back to Iraq to 'kill more Iraqis.' Not surprisingly, he's also looking forward to viewing this new war film - enamored, no doubt, by the notion of an 'American hero' employed in decidedly righteous executions, in his mind, of the 'enemies' our government and military define and promote there.

More ominously, our Democratic president is said to be poised to ask the republican-led Congress for a new authorization to use military force in Iraq which includes actual and open 'boots-on-the-ground' which he's been opportunistically avoiding as a way of forestalling any judgment by legislators under the War Powers Act clock (right now, he's advantaging authorization of his military force in Iraq and Syria under the 9-11 AUMF which is supposed to be for the 'war' he's straining to portray as ending in Afghanistan).

I expressed my own objections to my young vet of viewing portrayals like the ones billed in 'American Sniper;' expressed my concern that these types of films romanticize war to the extent that convince many young Americans to join the cause, convinced within their own naive rationale that they would be able to overcome the odds that their own lives would be sacrificed; not to mention the loss of other innocent lives in the way of their military and government-sanction violence. I probably won't see the film.

I strongly urged this young veteran to reconsider his desire to join the military again; to try and find other ways (other than the alcoholism which he admits plagues him) to suppress and allay the anger he feels daily, even now, years after his deployments which have injured him both physically and mentally. I have genuine sympathy for this former soldier. He frequently laughs about and ridicules my 'bleeding heart;' I tell him that my heart 'bleeds' for him, as well.

Lindy West writes:

The patriots go on, and on and on. They cannot believe what they are reading. They are rushing to the defence of not just Kyle, but their country, what their country means. They call for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise American hero Chris Kyle. Because Chris Kyle is good, and brown people are bad, and America is in danger, and Chris Kyle saved us. The attitude echoes what Miller articulated about Kyle in her Salon piece: “his steadfast imperviousness to any nuance, subtlety or ambiguity, and his lack of imagination and curiosity, seem particularly notable”.

"There is no room for the idea that Kyle might have been a good soldier but a bad guy; or a mediocre guy doing a difficult job badly; or a complex guy in a bad war who convinced himself he loved killing to cope with an impossible situation; or a straight-up serial killer exploiting an oppressive system that, yes, also employs lots of well-meaning, often impoverished, non-serial-killer people to do oppressive things over which they have no control. Or that Iraqis might be fully realised human beings with complex inner lives who find joy in food and sunshine and family, and anguish in the murders of their children. Or that you can support your country while thinking critically about its actions and its citizenry. Or that many truths can be true at once."


I wholeheartedly agree with that. Even as I grieve and anguish for the victims of U.S. military aggression, I sincerely wish my young veteran discussant, and his fellow compatriots-in-arms, healing and success in their lives. I weep for their future, and for their past, as well.
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Righteousness of our 'American Snipers' (Original Post) bigtree Jan 2015 OP
kick bigtree Jan 2015 #1
What gives me pause is the realization that these monsters. Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #2
I want to believe we can assume more responsibility for these soldiers bigtree Jan 2015 #5
Rather than manage the symptoms we should work towards eliminating the cause. Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #6
of course bigtree Jan 2015 #7
"...that's a pretty tall order. " Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #8
the government will dump them after using them, just as it's dumped every generation of ND-Dem Jan 2015 #16
I "had" a friend that joined the military just so he could kill people. L0oniX Jan 2015 #17
I just think it's easy to understand why so many veterans end up killing themselves dissentient Jan 2015 #3
Often this are the ones with a shred of humanity left. Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #4
Hardly the first war this had occurred in. Lurks Often Jan 2015 #9
» bigtree Jan 2015 #10
» bigtree Jan 2015 #11
» bigtree Jan 2015 #12
Since 1980 Octafish Jan 2015 #13
“American Sniper” Set To Make Over $100 Million For MLK Weekend bigtree Jan 2015 #14
How's that for irony? - nt KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #18
sad bigtree Jan 2015 #20
Interesting. I read a facebook post from both my son in law and his son praising this movie - jwirr Jan 2015 #15
Very good article. Puglover Jan 2015 #19

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
2. What gives me pause is the realization that these monsters.
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:13 PM
Jan 2015

Trained in the art of killing, torture or counter insurgency, come to live among us after their professional orgy of violence and murder is complete.

In Japan the generation that lived that life is largely dead by now. Same with the Germans who massacred millions.

Other countries churn these types out every day. Do you want them as your neighbor and in your community?

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
5. I want to believe we can assume more responsibility for these soldiers
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jan 2015

. . . many of whom begin their service as impressionable youth. Of course, the military culture encourages much of these attitudes toward killing, and to view these relationships with all of the people they encounter in these countries in conflict as enemies.

I want to help them readjust to life in our communities, in my own community. I take the position that I'm mostly fine, in comparison to the issues and problems facing their return from battle, and they have very real need for individuals and programs which will redirect their energy and efforts toward peaceful pursuits. I don't see most of our veterans as hopelessly flawed by their antipathies and views. Some are hopelessly engulfed by their hatred and contempt for their former antagonists, but I understand that many can be helped and desperately need our support and understanding to draw them away from the aggressive and adversarial culture and posture they relied on in the field to survive.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
6. Rather than manage the symptoms we should work towards eliminating the cause.
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:29 PM
Jan 2015

America does not need to breed killers and send them around the world to kill. Japan and Germany two nations where you don't need to worry the guy next to you at the grocery store who you bumped into is a trained killer who likes to kill.

It's as if a defensive military is impossible to imagine. Sad reality we have created for ourselves.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
8. "...that's a pretty tall order. "
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jan 2015

In an era of unending war, it is, but that's the reality Bush and others imposed on us.

Remember the oft promised peace dividend. Where did that go? We need to get back on track to leading by example not leading at the barrel of a gun.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
16. the government will dump them after using them, just as it's dumped every generation of
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:26 PM
Jan 2015

soldiers since Vietnam.

God showed Noah by the rainbow sign,
no more water, the fire next time.

 

dissentient

(861 posts)
3. I just think it's easy to understand why so many veterans end up killing themselves
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:16 PM
Jan 2015

I can't imagine how hard that would be to deal with, that you killed other human beings, and have to live with it.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
9. Hardly the first war this had occurred in.
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jan 2015

If you ignore Hollywood and the MSM and really dig into the personal stories of those who have seen combat, soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan have much in common with their predecessors in Vietnam, Korea and WWII.

Read Audie Murphy's book "To Hell and Back" and you can see the progression from eager soldier to combat veteran and the PTSD that came with it. E.B. Sledge's "With The Old Breed" is a similar example, only as a Marine in the Pacific.

As for snipers, it takes a certain mindset to be one. A sniper SEES his target up close and personal in the scope of the rifle and SEES the person die, something most soldiers, even those in combat, don't see very often.

I've been a soldier, although I was fortunate to never see combat. To those who have never been in the military, it's hard to explain what being part of a platoon is like. You spend time with some 25+ people, some that you don't even really like and yet you're going have to depend on them and trust those people with your life if you see combat. The closest examples you generally see in the civilian world are EMT's, firefighters & law enforcement, but even they to get to home after their shift is over, something a combat soldier doesn't get to do.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. Since 1980
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jan 2015

Iran-Iraq war, the US Government backed both sides covertly, Iraq overtly.



DECLARATION OF HOWARD TEICHER

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff,
v.
CARLOS CARDOEN, FRANCO SAFTA, JORGE BURR, INDUSTRIAS CARDOEN LIMITADA, a/k/a INCAR, SWISSCO MANAGEMENT GROUP, INC., EDWARD A. JOHNSON, RONALD W. GRIFFIN, and TELEDYNE INDUSTRIES, INC., d/b/a, TELEDYNE WAH CHANG ALBANY, Defendents.

Case No.: 93-241-CR-HIGHSMITH

DECLARATION OF HOWARD TEICHER

I. Howard Teicher, hereby state that, to the best of my knowledge and belief, the facts presented herein are true, correct and complete. I further state that to the best of my knowledge and belief, nothing stated in this Declaration constitutes classified information.

1. My name is Howard Teicher. From 1977 to 1987, I served in the United States government as a member of the national security bureaucracy. From early 1982 to 1987, I served as a Staff Member to the United States National Security Council.

2. While a Staff Member to the National Security Council, I was responsible for the Middle East and for Political-Military Affairs. During my five year tenure on the National security Council, I had regular contact with both CIA Director William Casey and Deputy Director Robert Gates.

3. In the Spring of 1982, Iraq teetered on the brink of losing its war with Iran. In May and June, 1982, the Iranians discovered a gap in the Iraqi defenses along the Iran-Iraq border between Baghdad to the north and Basra to the south. Iran positioned a massive invasion force directly across from the gap in the Iraqi defenses. An Iranian breakthrough at the spot would have cutoff Baghdad from Basra and would have resulted in Iraq's defeat.

4. United States Intelligence, including satellite imagery, had detected both the gap in the Iraqi defenses and the Iranian massing of troops across from the gap. At the time, the United States was officially neutral in the Iran-Iraq conflict.

5. President Reagan was forced to choose between (a) maintaining strict neutrality and allowing Iran to defeat Iraq, or (b) intervening and providing assistance to Iraq.

6. In June, 1982, President Reagan decided that the United States could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan decided that the United States would do whatever was necessary and legal to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran. President Reagan formalized this policy by issuing a National Security Decision Directive ("NSDD&quot to this effect in June, 1982. I have personal knowledge of this NSDD because I co-authored the NSDD with another NSC Staff Member, Geoff Kemp. The NSDD, including even its identifying number, is classified.

7. CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war. Pursuant to the secret NSDD, the United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat. For example, in 1986, President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam Hussein. Similar strategic operational military advice was passed to Saddam Hussein through various meetings with European and Middle Eastern heads of state. I authored Bush's talking points for the 1986 meeting with Mubarak and personally attended numerous meetings with European and Middle East heads of state where the strategic operational advice was communicated.

8. I personally attended meetings in which CIA Director Casey or CIA Deputy Director Gates noted the need for Iraq to have certain weapons such as cluster bombs and anti-armor penetrators in order to stave off the Iranian attacks. When I joined the NSC staff in early 1982, CIA Director Casey was adamant that cluster bombs were a perfect "force multiplier" that would allow the Iraqis to defend against the "human waves" of Iranian attackers. I recorded those comments in the minutes of National Security Planning Group ("NSPG&quot meetings in which Casey or Gates participated.

9. The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

10. The United States was anxious to have other countries supply assistance to Iraq. For example, in 1984, the Israelis concluded that Iran was more dangerous than Iraq to Israel's existence due to the growing Iranian influence and presence in Lebanon. The Israelis approached the United States in a meeting in Jerusalem that I attended with Donald Rumsfeld. Israeli Foreign Minister Yitzhak Shamir asked Rumsfeld if the United States would deliver a secret offer of Israeli assistance to Iraq. The United States agreed. I travelled wtih Rumsfeld to Baghdad and was present at the meeting in which Rumsfeld told Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz about Israel's offer of assistance. Aziz refused even to accept the Israelis' letter to Hussein offering assistance, because Aziz told us that he would be executed on the spot by Hussein if he did so.

11. One of the reasons that the United States refused to license or sell U.S. origin weapons to Iraq was that the supply of non-U.S. origin weapons to Iraq was sufficient to meet Iraq's needs. Under CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S. manufacturers manufactured and sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq. In certain instances where a key component in a weapon was not readily available, the highest levels of the United States government decided to make the component available, directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I specifically recall that the provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq was a case in point. The United States made a policy decision to supply penetrators to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files will contain references to the Iraqis' need for anti-armor penetrators and the decision to provide penetrators to Iraq.

12. Most of the Iraqi's military hardware was of Soviet origin. Regular United States or NATO ammunition and spare parts could not be used in this Soviet weaponry.

13. The United States and the CIA maintained a program known as the 'Bear Spares" program whereby the United States made sure that spare parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for defense needs. If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United States, then the United States could arrange for the provision of these weapons to a third country without direct involvement. Israel, for example, had a very large stockpile of Soviet weaponry and ammunition captured during its various wars. At the suggestion of the United States, the Israelis would transfer the spare parts and weapons to third countries or insurgent movements (such as the Afghan rebels and the Contras). Similarly, Egypt manufactured weapons and spare parts from Soviet designs and provided these weapons and ammunition to the Iraqis and other countries. Egypt also served as a supplier for the Bear Spares program. The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's manufacturing capabilities. The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's sale of weaponry, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.

14. The mere request to a third party to carry out an action did not constitute a "covert action," and, accordingly, required no Presidential Finding or reporting to Congress. The supply of Cardoen cluster bombs, which were fitted for use on Soviet, French and NATO
aircraft, was a mere extension of the United States policy of assisting Iraq through all legal means in order to avoid an Iranian victory.

15. My NSC files are currently held in the President Ronald Reagan Presidential Archives in Simi Valley, California. My files will contain my notes and memoranda from meetings I attended with CIA director Casey or CIA Deputy Director Gates which included discussions of Cardoen's manufacture and sale of cluster bombs to Iraq. My NSC files will also contain cable traffic among various United States agencies, embassies and other parties relating to Cardoen and his sale of cluster bombs and other munitions to Iraq and other Middle Eastern states.

16. Under CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, the CIA authorized, approved and assisted Cardoen in the manufacture and sale of cluster bombs and other munitions to Iraq. My NSC files will contain documents that show or tend to show the CIA's authorization, approval and assistance of Cardoen's manufacture and sale of cluster bombs and other munitions to Iraq.

17. My files will contain notes, memoranda and other documents that will show that the highest levels of the United States government, including the NSC Staff and the CIA, were well aware of Cardoen's arrest in 1983 in Miami in a sting operation relating to the smuggling of night vision goggles to Cuba and Libya. My files will also show that the highest levels of the government were aware of the arrest and conviction of two of Cardoen's employees and his company Industrias Cardoen.

18. CIA Director William Casey, aware of Cardoen's arrest and the conviction of his employees and his company, intervened in order to make sure that Cardoen was able to supply cluster bombs to Iraq. Specifically, CIA Director Casey directed the Secretaries of the State and Commerce Departments that the necessary licenses required by Cardoen were not to be denied. My files will contain notes, memoranda and other documents showing or tending to show that CIA Director William Casey's intervention was in order to maintain Cardoen's ability to supply cluster bombs and other munitions to Iraq.

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct to the best of my memory and recollection.

Executed on 1/31/95

Howard Teicher (signature appears on original)

SOURCE: http://www.american-buddha.com/howard.teicher.htm



And the killing hasn't stopped.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
14. “American Sniper” Set To Make Over $100 Million For MLK Weekend
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jan 2015
BuzzFeed News ?@BuzzFeedNews 36m36 minutes ago

“American Sniper” Set To Make Over $100 Million For MLK Weekend http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/american-sniper-box-office?bftw&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
15. Interesting. I read a facebook post from both my son in law and his son praising this movie -
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jan 2015

mostly I assume because they both like guns and think war solves everything.

But what they both forgot is that when our family is setting together for a gathering there are only three of us who are not brown skinned people. Most of them are calling themselves Native Americans but a good share of them also have black ancestry. If by some horrible fate we find our nation heading any further into fascism they are all going to wake up and realize that they supported this move.

It really scares me that no one seems to see this coming.

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