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KoKo

(84,711 posts)
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 03:32 PM Jan 2015

"War Begets War: It’s Not about Islam; It Never Was"

War Begets War: It’s Not about Islam; It Never Was

Since Francis Fukuyama declared the “End of History” in 1992 – reveling that free markets and “liberal democracies” will reign supreme forever – followed by Samuel Huntington’s supposed contrasting, but still equally conceited, view of the “Clash of Civilizations and the need to “remake the world order”, a whole new intellectual industry has embroiled many in Washington, London and elsewhere. Once the Cold War had triumphantly ended with an inflated sense of political validation, the Middle East became the new playground for ideas about dominion and military hardware.

Since then, it has been an all-out war, either instigated by or involving various western powers. It was a protracted, multi-dimensional war: a destructive war on the ground, an economic war (blockades on the one hand and globalization and free market exploitation on the other), cultural invasion (that made westernisation of society equivalent to modernity); topped with a massive propaganda war targeting the Middle East’s leading religion: Islam.

The war on Islam was particularly vital, as it seemed to unify a large range of western intellectuals, conservative, liberal, religious and secular alike. All done for good reasons:

– Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life. By demonizing Islam, you demonize everything associated with it, including, of course, Muslims.

– The vilification of Islam which morphed into massive western-led Islamophobia helped validate the actions of western governments, however violent and abusive. The dehumanization of Muslims became an essential weapon in war.

– It was also strategic: hating Islam and all Muslims is a very flexible tool that would make military intervention and economic sanctions possible anywhere where the West has political and economic interests. Hating Islam became a unifying rally-cry from advocates of sanctions on Sudan to anti-immigrant neo-Nazi groups in Germany, and everywhere else. The issue is no longer the violent means used to achieve political domination and control of natural resources, but, magically, it all was reduced to one single word: Islam; or, at best, Islam and something else: freedom of expression, women rights, and so forth.

Thus, it was no surprise to see the likes of Ian Black commenting in the Guardian, hours after gunmen carried out a lethal attack in Paris against a French Magazine on Wednesday, 7 January with the starting line: “Satire and Islam do not sit well together…”

Not a word on the French military and other forms of intervention in the Middle East; its destructive role in Syria; its leadership role in the war in Libya; its war in Mali, and so on. Not even a word on François Holland’s recent statement about being “ready” to bomb Libyan rebels, although it was made only few days earlier.

Sure, the pornographic satire of Charlie Hebdo and its targeting of Prophet Mohammed was mentioned, but little was said, by Black, or the many others who were quick to link the subject to “7th century Islam”, to the hideous wars and their horrible, pornographic manifestations of torture, rape and other unspeakable acts; acts that victimized millions of people; Muslim people. Instead, it about western art and Muslim intolerance. The subtle line was: yes, indeed, it is a “clash of civilizations”.

More at.......

https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/war-begets-war-its-not-about-islam-it-never-was/

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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randome

(34,845 posts)
1. "...to the hideous EDICTS and their horrible, pornographic manifestations of torture, rape and..."
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jan 2015

The Muslim world is not innocent. Neither are we.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
2. Us vs Them + Follow the Money, for the USA and other governments. For the people
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jan 2015

being hurt? Too many hurt by too many for no good reason for them

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
3. I think you would have
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jan 2015

a hard time convincing those getting massacred in Syria for not being the "right kind" of Muslim that it's not about Islam. Or the vermin kidnapping and enslaving those girls in Nigeria.

6. Yes ...
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:06 PM
Jan 2015

... reading this, that was my reaction as well.

Moreover, when both the perpetrators themselves and AQAP assert that the attack was carried out in response to the "insult" leveled against the Prophet, it seems to me that "makes it about Islam" per se.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. Upon mulling this over a bit more:
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:15 PM
Jan 2015

I'm struck by how similar this is to hard liners who insist that it's all Islam's fault and problem which leads me to wonder how those who condemn western nations for this black and white thinking and blame game stuff can endorse it from this perspective.

This is no more than a paean to Islam. It's great. It's wonderful. It's spotless and shiny and if not for the evil west there would be no problems. He's actually saying that Islam is the template for a utopian society. And I say nonsense. There is no template for a utopian society.

This is just the mirror image of America is the shining city on the hill bullshit.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
9. I read the whole article (as I'm sure you did)
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jan 2015

and I didn't get that impression at all from what he was expressing. Your wording is not the writers.





"This is no more than a paean to Islam. It's great. It's wonderful. It's spotless and shiny and if not for the evil west there would be no problems. He's actually saying that Islam is the template for a utopian society. And I say nonsense. There is no template for a utopian society.

This is just the mirror image of America is the shining city on the hill bullshit."

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
10. it is a paean to Islam:
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:57 PM
Jan 2015

First, let’s be clear on some points. Islam has set in motion a system to abolish slavery over 1,200 years before the slave trade reached its peak in the western world.

Freeing the slaves, who were owned by pagan Arab tribes, was a recurring theme in the Koran, always linked to the most basic signs of piety and virtue:

“The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the traveler. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.” [Al-Koran. 9:60]

It is unfortunate that such reminders would have to be regularly restated, thanks to constant anti-Islam propaganda in many western countries. The outlandish and often barbaric behavior of the so-called Islamic State (IS) has given greater impetus to existing prejudices and propaganda.

Second, gender equality in Islam has been enshrined in the language of the Koran and the legacy of the Prophet Mohammed.

<snip>

that's exactly what that is. Look, the Koran like the Bible is full of contradictory messages. Both extoll love and both have some pretty damned violent messages. In addition, Islam as practiced in many places does not sustain equality for women. Slavery? Islamic slave traders should ring a bell. In his piece the author is placing ALL the responsibility for acts of violence carried out by Muslims on the West. That's no more accurate than those who deny that Western actions have contributed.

<snip>

The Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily) beginning during the era of the Arab conquests and continuing through the 19th century.[1] The trade was conducted through slave markets in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa, with the slaves captured from Africa's interior.

During the 8th and 9th centuries of the Fatimid Caliphate, most of the slaves were Europeans (called Saqaliba) captured along European coasts and during wars.[2] Historians estimate that between 650 and 1900, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert.[3]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
11. I read it as pointing out "Blow Back." That making this about Islam as a religion would be
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 05:40 PM
Jan 2015

like saying all Christians supported the Spanish Inquistion when it was the rogue actions of the High Priests in the Catholic Church who had broken from the principles of Christianity . Or, blaming all U.S. Christians because subgroups of U.S. Fundamentalist Christians support hateful actions against women, GLBT, and African Americans other minorities. Or, all Jews are responsible for the actions of the extremists like LIKKUD in their midst.

Blaming a whole people and their religion for the acts and deeds of their few is a useful tool for those who have other reasons for engaging in war. Been that way throughout history. But, now we are in a time where we are in danger of Global War if we can't get the moneyed interests of the Global MIC held to account.

Remember Bush II called it a "Crusade" before he had to be corrected.

Oh...and about "Blow Back." When the crimes of the few are used to punish a whole religion, ethnic group or sex/gender then the group as a whole has a right to push back. In the case of the U.S./NATO Invasions/Inteventions....the populations of most of ME and extending now into Africa are suffering and the death and destruction may never be repaired. There are many religions and ethnic groups caught up in this who had nothing[ to do with any of this...now homeless, dislocated from families, communities, businesses to earn a living and tens thousands who are dead for little reason than that they lived in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My read of the article is very different from yours....but, hey...you are entitled to your view.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
17. But should any ideology be off-limits from criticism?
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 10:30 PM
Jan 2015

If people think Islam or Christianity or whatever is stupid or dangerous or nonsensical should they be accused of "demonizing Muslims" or "demonizing Christians" ?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
14. Absolute garbage that all progressives ought be repulsed by
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 10:04 PM
Jan 2015

"Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life. By demonizing Islam, you demonize everything associated with it, including, of course, Muslims."

There you go. Islam is now completely insulated from any criticism. Because if you criticize any of the nonsensical BS in the Koran, you automatically are a bigot.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
15. Sorry...I can't figure out where you are coming from on this post.
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 10:13 PM
Jan 2015

I didn't see anything in that writer's view that says what you say, here:

"Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life. By demonizing Islam, you demonize everything associated with it, including, of course, Muslims."

There you go. Islam is now completely insulated from any criticism. Because if you criticize any of the nonsensical BS in the Koran, you automatically are a bigot.


It seems quite a distortion in thinking if you read the whole article or missed my Reply downthread about Religions.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
16. Here's where I am coming from
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 10:19 PM
Jan 2015

If you make the claim that by speaking ill of Islam, the religion, you are, by definition, speaking ill of all Muslims then there is no way to speak critically of Islam without being labeled someone who is bigoted against Muslims.

So if I find the doctrine of Islam to be objectionable, I am demonizing all Muslims.

That formulation creates a situation where Islam is insulated from critical analysis.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
18. Here's what you said earlier:
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 01:25 PM
Jan 2015


If people think Islam or Christianity or whatever is stupid or dangerous or nonsensical should they be accused of "demonizing Muslims" or "demonizing Christians" ?



I think it depends on the form of criticism you choose. Calling a Religion "stupid or dangerous" could be perceived as a personal attack on the person practicing the tenants of that religion and therefore an attack on the religion itself. Mocking of a person's personal beliefs as "stupid or dangerous" never ends well. Engaging a person in a discussion about their beliefs is always the better alternative.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
19. Right
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jan 2015

I don't think calling a religion "stupid or dangerous" is any more of a personal attack on the person practicing the tenants of that religion than calling a political ideology (such as Republicanism) "stupid or dangerous".

I think it is in fact critical to point out to people just how stupid and how dangerous the Republican ideology is. That is, I dare say, part of what DU is all about.

For instance, a person who espouses the notion that gay people ought not to be afforded the same rights as straight people is espousing a stupid and dangerous idea.

A person who espouses such an idea because of the words of some fairy tale characters or mythical cloud god ought to be subject the same criticism - moreso, in fact. Especially because of the harm such an ideology has caused and continues to cause to people around the world.

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