A storm tracks 50 miles more to the east than expected and some folks get angry at the warnings and

[stevenleser]

the shut down of travel and mass transit.

Would they have preferred risking this or something worse:

http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2014/01/29/rare-winter-storm-causes-wrecks-travel-gridlock-in-deep-south/

Rescue efforts are under way Wednesday after thousands of schoolchildren and hundreds of drivers in the Deep South spent the night stranded at schools and along ice-covered highways following a rare winter storm that brought freezing rain, snow and bitter cold to the region.

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed says "a lot of people" are still stranded in their cars on the highways nearly 24 hours the storm slammed the city, but he is not sure of exactly how many people.

[LanternWaste]

1. I think the most melodramatic, hair-on-fire reactions on DU are by individuals alleging

I think the most melodramatic, hair-on-fire reactions on DU re: this storm are by individuals alleging that same melodramatic, hair-on-fire reaction by the media. They are in effect, indicting everyone else for actions they themselves are engaging in.

Local and national weather reports, NOAA, etc all seem rather matter-of-fact and stolid.

[kentauros]

2. Some people just aren't happy unless they are "justifiably" miserable.

I remember someone I knew on another board that was so pissed off when Hurricane Irene didn't hit NYC as predicted. I wish I had thought of the following example to ask him at the time:

"So, when you lose control on some black ice, yet manage to regain control and not hit anything, are you just as pissed off that you didn't hit anything?"

But, he was a typical RWer, and didn't give a shit about what was happening further north in New Hampshire and Vermont. Not his problem.

I hope those people that are stranded manage to remain warm until rescued. Nothing worse than having to hike (unprepared) through bad conditions just to get to someplace warm and out of the weather.

[leveymg]

3. There was no reason to shut down the subway other than to lock-down NYC

forcing people to "shelter in place." This is a Department of Homeland Security mentality at work, and mass social control is becoming the new normal in America, even during rather routine events.

Many of us remember when a snow day was just a snow day, not an opportunity to display a Governor's resolve to preemptively exercise "emergency" powers.

[Agschmid]

5. Puh-leeeeze.

[leveymg]

8. Scoff if you like, but this is what many New Yorkers have concluded

Cuomo overstepped in an effort to look resolute, and this isn't going to help him politically.

[Agschmid]

27. So politics is a better filter than safety?

[stevenleser]

6. Yes there is reason to do so. Knowledge gained from past snowstorms.

In past snowstorms, not having the subways closed down resulted in taking it much longer to get the system running again.

[leveymg]

9. The system never stopped running, Steven.

They just ran empty trains overnight.

[stevenleser]

15. Yes, they ran them only in the underground areas. You understand that, right? nt

[leveymg]

16. Yes, Steven, but they also shut down the underground, most of the system. Understand that?

Quite unnecessarily.

[HappyMe]

17. Pretty easy to Monday morning quarterback now.

[leveymg]

20. Actually, it was easy to see why shutting down the subway was a really bad idea, even if forecasts

had been spot-on.

The reason the subway had to be shut down during Superstorm Sandy was a storm surge 13 feet above normal that flooded the tracks and third rail. The projected surge for yesterday/today was 2-3 feet.

No real safety reason, otherwise, to shut down underground trains because of snow. Buses, yes.

There was no real reason for the Governor to order the subway shutdown, other than he could. He did. Not a reality-based decision.

[HappyMe]

21. I would rather have him err on

the side of caution, rather than have people stranded or worse.

I don't see any reason to be outraged about something like this.

[leveymg]

23. The fact is, he erred because he could.

Pre-9/11, this wouldn't have happened. That's my main point.

[HappyMe]

24. What?

Trying to keep people safe in a snow storm has nothing to do with 9/11.

[leveymg]

26. Has to do with social control, and its acceptance.

Some people will excuse excessive control, because they love authority. That's the source of the post-9/11 DHS lockdown mentality I'm observing here.

[Agschmid]

29. Your observation is off.

[HappyMe]

32. You are reading way, way too much into this.

Keeping people safe in a storm isn't some grand conspiracy relating to 9/11.

[leveymg]

34. I don't like this aspect of the new normal - municipal lockdowns - do you?

It's not a conspiracy, it's an open and increasingly frequent abuse of governmental power. Some people tolerate it now, because since 9/11 they've gotten used to living in a more or less permanent state of emergency.

Enjoy.

[Agschmid]

28. Yup.

[KamaAina]

10. The subway took a pounding in Sandy

there are still repairs going on from that.

[leveymg]

12. The storm surge is nowhere near as extreme. Snow, now turning to dirty NYC street slush.

Snow in January in New York - same as it ever was.

[KamaAina]

13. Well, of course not, because the storm tracked farther east than forecast.

[leveymg]

14. Even the worst forecast called for a storm surge less than a quarter that during Sandy

About 2-3 feet above normal. The damage due to Sandy was from the rise in tide levels due to an extraordinary confluence of factors that flooded some parts of the NYC subways. Yesterday was not that kind of event. Sandy saw levels nearly 13 feet above normal. See,

Superstorm Sandy A Look at Coastal Flooding in Greenwich
https://oldgreenwich.org/s/Sandy-A-Look-at-Coastal-Flooding.pdf

Apr 16, 2013 - Observed water level minus predicted tide = surge. As seen ... Kings Point, N.Y.: ~12.5 feet above normal ... NOAA Records on Sandy Surges.

[Agschmid]

30. The subway closure had nothing to do with the storm surge IMO.

[leveymg]

33. That's exactly my point. Track flooding would be a legitimate reason to shut down the system

This has more to do with the political system shutting the population's freedom of movement without any real reason for doing so - an abuse of power that is occurring more and more frequently.

[Agschmid]

35. No I think it had to do with the fact that it's not safe to ask MTA workers...

To keep every staircase and platform clear of snow if we were expecting 20+ inches.

Ever been at the one station on the A line north of 135th when it comes out of the tunnel and goes to a viaduct station... that would be a pain to try to keep clear.

[leveymg]

37. Reason to shut down the A to GWB/Wash Hgts, perhaps, but not the entire system

An exception that proves the rule.

[Myrina]

18. Oh, I dunno ... how about not having people stranded walking to and from subway stations ?

Therefore causing a hazardous redirection of police/rescue efforts to find people out wandering in the potential mess?

[RobinA]

19. I Get

what you are saying, but I think also the political penalty for any misstep these days is so steep that the mindset is to err on the side of lockdown. It's the new normal for many reasons.

[kath]

22. +1000. "Dept. of Homeland Security (GAH, I HATE that name) mentality at work"

ya got that right.
they just LOVE putting cities on lockdown.

[leveymg]

25. Why do they lock-down cities? Because they can, so they do.

Proves their eyes are on the ball, even when they totally blow the shot.

Some people will excuse any excessive use of state power, because they love authority.

[MineralMan]

4. Things like that happen here in Minnesota all the time.

The weather folks warn about coming storms, and always predict what the maximum snowfall might be. Often, the storm tracks a little more north or south than they thought and the actual snowfall is less than the maximum they mentioned. What we in the Twin Cities do when that happens is breathe a sigh of relief if we got less than expected.

We still prepare for the maximum, though. If 6" of snow is predicted, I make sure I have gas for the snowblower. If I don't need it, that's just fine by me. I don't blame the weather person for a better outcome than predicted. That would be silly.

While NYC isn't getting as much snow as predicted, a lot of places in the northeast are getting slammed. NYC should be glad. I can't see any reason to blame the weather predictions if you get less than the maximum predicted. Seems like a cause for celebration to me.

[ChosenUnWisely]

7. OK to make some happy lets go back to the old way with nothing but total gridlock on the east coast

Last edited Tue Jan 27, 2015, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)

for the next couple of days instead, if we are lucky there will be lots of people killed or injured from traveling during a blizzard too.

I am sure that will make some people happy.

[HappyMe]

11. Some people are never happy.

Had not as many precautions been taken, people would complain that the authorities don't care.

There are places that got hammered with this storm.

[zappaman]

31. You know who to thank...

[hrmjustin]

36. I am overjoyed. Shoveling was so much eaxier than I expected this morning.