Is a rock considered a deadly weapon?

[glasshouses]

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. If it killed someone, yes.

[MohRokTah]

2. A rock was probaby the very first deadly weapon in homonid pre-history. eom

[panader0]

44. Or a bone

[William769]

3. If used to commit bodily injury, then yes.

[glasshouses]

4. So that's what the cops are going to use as a defense of the shooting?

Other than that there's not much more that can justify the shooting

[seveneyes]

5. Depending on its mass and velocity

Throw a pebble fast enough at the Earth and it will destroy the whole planet.

[edhopper]

7. Is that true?

I suppose you are talking about near light speeds, but would that increase force that much?

[seveneyes]

10. E=MC Squared says it should

Not an experiment we can't quite perform yet thankfully.

[edhopper]

16. I guess

if the math works. Would the mass increase equal that much energy?

But you point is taken, after all a "rock" killed off the dinosaurs.

[Mugu]

29. Infinitesimal mass can have infinite energy if propelled at infinite speed.

Last edited Sun Feb 15, 2015, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

At least that’s what some fellow with bad hair and a weird name once claimed.

[seveneyes]

33. The powers that be

Not only would the doubling of either mass or velocity increase the energy...it would quadruple it.

The exponential scale is what made us what we are.

[Mugu]

36. Mass has a linear effect on energy.

Velocity has a exponential effect on energy.

This is why ammunition manufacturers will sometimes sacrifice mass for increased velocity once maximum pressures have been reached.

[gladium et scutum]

57. Actually, I think the equation you are looking for is

Force is equal to mass times acceleration (F=M x A)

[seveneyes]

58. Actually, I'm looking for the Joules

It gets big in a hurry once you start squaring the doubles multiplied.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. It qualifies as a blunt instrument.

It can obviously be used as a weapon, or a projectile or whatever.

I guess I would say that things that are made with the primary purpose of inflicting harm on another entity is a weapon. Things which were not constructed for such purposes are not weapons in and of themselves, but may be used as weapons.

If that rock is shaped into a spearhead to be used for hunting or warfare, it becomes a weapon under my first definition.

[leveymg]

8. To men with guns, they're a convenient excuse for summary execution.

Like this one:

Military steps up use of live 0.22 inch bullets against Palestinian stone-throwers
January 18, 2015

West Bank military commander recently confirmed shift to use of live fire instead of crowd control weapons

Recent months have seen a dramatic rise in Israeli security forces’ use of live 0.22 inch caliber bullets (Ruger rifle bullets, also known by the nickname Two-Two) in clashes with Palestinians in the West Bank. The firing of this ammunition is an almost weekly occurrence in the West Bank in sites of protests and clashes. Most of those injured have been young Palestinians, including minors. Yet, in the last two months, one Palestinian woman, at least three photographers, and a foreign national who was taking part in a demonstration were also hit by these bullets. B’Tselem does not have the full data on the number of people wounded this type of ammunition.

[NickB79]

18. That's fucked up

I have that exact rifle (Ruger 10/22), and it could kill a human with a head shot out to 100 yards. We used them on the farm to kill livestock like cattle or pigs before butchering, with a single shot between the eyes. I've hunted rabbits and squirrels with it out to 75 yards.

It is not a crowd control weapon in the least. It is a lethal firearm.

[aikoaiko]

9. Is this about something in particular?

[glasshouses]

12. The cops who shot and killed a man for throwing a rock at them

[MADem]

22. Usually, the item is defined after the fact. If the guy had killed someone

with that rock, I think the definition of that thing he was throwing would have merit. However, since he didn't kill anyone, what we're seeing here is the defining of the rock as a weapon, AFTER THE FACT, to support the killing of the rock-thrower.

[Stellar]

35. Rock throwing could be considered dangerous...

if someone has to be shot and killed for it. Because everybody knows that the guns are not dangerous...just the ROCKS.

Man who threw rocks shot dead by three Washington officers

http://wtvr.com/2015/02/12/man-shot-dead-by-three-washington-officers-after-throwing-rocks-1/

[MADem]

37. A gun isn't dangerous when it's in the locked holster with the safety on.

When the gun comes out and is aimed/fired...or even used as a club to bash someone's head in...why then, it is dangerous.

The rocks in the rock wall by my house aren't dangerous, but if someone picks one up and bashes someone's head in with it, then the story changes.

How the item is used is how the definition of "deady" is determined, and as I said, that definition is usually made after the fact. The guy that bashes in his wife's head with a fireplace poker was using a "deadly" weapon. The woman who takes the cleaver she uses to cut up chicken for frying and uses it to separate her husband's head from his neck is not using a kitchen tool, but a "deadly" weapon. A pillow used to suffocate someone is a "deadly" weapon.

[Stellar]

51. Of course a lot of things can be used in a deadly manner.

I agree with you.

[tech3149]

41. I think the better question would be of proportinal response

A rock may be a deadly weapon but it has limitations as to where and when it would be so. A bullet could be much more deadly in many more situations than a rock.
I would have a better chance of survival against a foe with a rock under any circumstance than someone tossing lead from an instrument designed to inflict death.

[Fla_Democrat]

11. I damn sure wouldn't want him after me

Oh, wait, you said A rock, not THE Rock.... never mind.

[Logical]

52. LOL! nt

[NutmegYankee]

13. In the ancient world, there were slinger missile units that fought in battles

And a rock launched by a sling was the weapon used by David against Goliath in the Biblical story. Slings were a common Shepard weapon for use against predators.

[bluedigger]

14. You are just paranoid, glasshouses.

Someone throw one at you?

[glasshouses]

15. Hee hee

[Orrex]

24. Magnificent!

[Orrex]

17. What if an abusive person struck their SO in the head with it?

Would it be considered deadly in that case?

[NickB79]

19. Hey, David killed Goliath with one, so there!

And since we all know that was a true, factually correct story (cause the Bible says so), then those cops were clearly justified in using lethal force against this heavily armed thug.

[pipi_k]

20. Yes, but

probably not something a person should be shot dead for.

[MADem]

21. Anything can be a deadly weapon--a car, a whiffle bat, a leash, a fire poker--and yes, a rock.

It's how you use the item, not what it is.

[HereSince1628]

23. probably not if thrown at a person inside an armored vehicle

probably not if thrown against someone wearing heavy body armor.

probably not if thrown at a person who sees it coming and steps aside.

[ileus]

25. Anything can be a deadly weapon in the right hands.

I know a guy that killed a kid with a skateboard.

[Yo_Mama]

50. A tireiron, a baseball bat, an axe, a screwdriver.

[RandySF]

26. Legal Definition

Deadly Weapon
A gun or other instrument, substance, or device, which is used or intended to be used in a way that is likely to cause death. A prosecutor who charges a defendant with "assault with a deadly weapon" must prove not only that the defendant assaulted the victim, but did so with a device that was capable of causing death. Some laws list "deadly weapons per se," which are weapons that by themselves are likely to cause death, such as a gun, regardless of the user's intent.

http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/deadly-weapon-term.html

[tech3149]

42. Well my problem with that legal definition is it's too broad

I think your bolding tells all. "Capable of causing death" some people can cause death with their hands or a pen. It's like trying to protect your kids from harm. You can't see all the dangers and you can't be there 24/7.
I don't think I'd be too afraid of dealing with rocks if I were in an armored vehicle with a 762 or 223 in my hands.

[RandySF]

43. Throwing a rock at an armored truck does not fit the definition.

Taking a rock and bashing someone on the head with it does. And yes, if you try to stab someone in the throat with a pen, it's a deadly weapon.

[Politicalboi]

27. I suppose it can be used that way

But I would think for the man who got killed was probably throwing "pebbles" rather than a huge stone.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

28. Ask those who have been stoned to death. N/t

[VScott]

30. In the right hands, damn straight it is!

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[glasshouses]

38. Ernest T. Bass

[Duckhunter935]

53. Loved that show

[VScott]

56. He's the best rock thrower in the county!...

[bettyellen]

31. if there is one anyone near a POC who was killed in "self defense", then yes.

Sad, but true.

[mmonk]

32. When it is thrown at soldiers or police.

[guillaumeb]

34. easy listening is a deadlier weapon

just my opinion that's all

[TeeYiYi]

39. Depends on the size of the rock...

In all seriousness, the answer is NO. Definitely not.

TYY

[postulater]

40. I got arrested once for "throwing missiles".

During antiwar protest in Madison 1971. The cops claimed I was throwing rocks at their chicken-wired car windows. I had a book bag they said had rocks in it. It didn't. Just books. And I had just gotten out of my Philosophy of NonViolence class.

Their lie detector guy said I was lying when I denied throwing 'missiles.' UW wanted to expel me but didn't after the judge threw out the case.

Yesterday my UW student daughter attended an anti-Walker protest on campus.

Fuckem, they won't stop us.

[tech3149]

45. Please give your daughter and yourself a big hug from me

I may be stuck in Pennsyltucky but I've been paying attention to Wi since Wanker got elected.
We may have gotten a better Gov this time but not by much.
We all have a lot of work to do and if we can keep it up they will never stop us.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

46. If it's part of a sidewalk.

In Sanford, Florida.

[surrealAmerican]

47. This would be posted by a person with a username "glasshouses".

more on topic: Police will consider anything in a civilian's hand a deadly weapon.

[alphafemale]

48. A rock is certainly a weapon.

How far away would you want someone wanting to bash your head in with one be?

[Yo_Mama]

49. If you smack someone's head in with it, sure.

A pebble, not unless you threw it into the gears on some machine and caused deaths that way.

A bat can be a deadly weapon under many criminal statutes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_weapon

A deadly weapon is usually defined as a firearm or any object designed, made, or adapted for the purposes of inflicting death or serious physical injury.

The elements of satisfying that definition are that using the object in the way that the person is intentionally using it or threatening to use it may be reasonably considered to inflict imminent severe harm.

Acid used in a chemical experiment isn't a deadly weapon until you throw it into an enemy's face or threaten to do so. The carving knife I use in the kitchen to cut up poultry isn't a deadly weapon until I stab my husband with it or threaten to do so.

[DrDan]

54. it sure could be

any weapon which can kill. This includes not only weapons which are intended to do harm like a gun or knife, but also blunt instruments like clubs, baseball bats, monkey wrenches, an automobile or any object which actually causes death. This becomes important when trying to prove criminal charges brought for assault with a deadly weapon. In a few 1990s cases courts have found rocks and even penises of AIDS sufferers as "deadly weapons."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/deadly+weapon

[tblue37]

55. Cops now seem to consider an "aggressive look" a deadly weapon.

I have seen too many articles where cops either take down (i.e., beat and pile on) a person (inevitably a black or hispanic man) and then later claim the person gave them an aggressive look. In one such case the victim was an innocent 14-year-old boy on the beach--holding his puppy!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/tremaine-mcmillian-14-year-old-miami-dade-police_n_3362340.html

Miami-Dade Police says officers were forced to throw a beach-going 14-year-old to the ground and forcibly restrain him because of clenched fists and "dehumanizing stares," as first reported by CBS Miami.

<SNIP>

"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta <emphasis added>.

<SNIP>

"Of course we have to neutralize the threat <emphasis added> in front of us," he said. "And when you have somebody that is being resistant...that's the immediate threat. At this point we're not dealing or concerned with the puppy."

In cops' minds, anything is a "deadly weapon" or a "threat" that they "have to neutralize."

[dilby]

59. Can a rock cause great bodily harm?

Because that is your answer, also depends on how you were using it. If you are busted by the cops and they empty your pockets and find a rock, it will not be listed as a deadly weapon. However if they find an unloaded handgun in your pocket that would be listed as a deadly weapon, even though technically at that moment the rock is just as deadly as the handgun with no bullets. So go figure, it's just the law.