Why do so many more black men marry white women than vice versa?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

That most people marry people the same race as them, but some people don't, does not interest me very much - that people are more likely to associate with people of their own race is slightly sad, but entirely unsurprising; that they associate with people of other races too is obvious; and if you associate with people then sometimes you'll fall in love with them.

But what I do find very interesting, and don't have a good explanation for, is the fact that there are far (more than twice as many) more black man/white woman relationships than white man/black woman. That, presumably, says something quite significant about how people think or feel about race and sex and the interaction between them. But I have no idea what.

It gets even more striking if you include Asians. Here is a table I copy-pasted from wikipedia, and then rearranged:

Black Wife White Wife Asian Wife Other Wife
Black Husband 4,072,000 390,000 39,000 66,000
White Husband 168,000 50,410,000 529,000 487,000
Asian Husband 9,000 219,000 2,855,000 28,000
Other Husband 18,000 488,000 37,000 568,000

There are twice as many black man/white woman marriages as vice versa, twice as many white man/asian woman marriages as vice versa, and four times as many black man/asian women marriages as vice versa.

There are also significantly more black husbands and asian wives total than black wives or asian husbands - I've read in several sources that black women find it hard to find husbands because of this asymmetry.

[wyldwolf]

1. .

[Duckhunter935]

3. Me too

[dissentient]

2. lol, no comment. I'm sure you have heard some things in life to answer this question though.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. Various, none of which I find terribly persuasive.

I don't expect someone to post a obviously-correct explanation that will make everything clear and have me kicking myself for having missed it, but hope springs eternal.

[politicaljunkie41910]

108. I don't understand why your question was considered to be radioactive by many here.

As a black woman, married, college educated, mother of three who are also college educated, I'd like to think that we are all a product of our environment. My husband and I are both from large families. who were poorer than a church mouse, but our parents had strong work ethics that were passed on to their children. They also taught us that the world didn't owe us anything, but that we could have anything we wanted if we were willing to work hard for it.

The major difference between my husband and my background, was that I was from California, where we had good public schools and very inexpensive community colleges and my husband was from Virginia where they had segregated public schools, (his high school became integrated the year he began) and the VA community colleges may as well have been 4 yr universities, as there was no way they would ever be able to afford to go to one.

As the 5th of 9 children, I had always planned to be a CPA, like my brother, but ended up in the Army, after breaking up with my cheating boyfriend in my Senior year in high school and just needing to get the heck out of Dodge.

Fast forward, I served my 4 yr enlistment, attended classes at night, and finished my Bachelor Degree in Accounting in 2 and a half years after leaving the military.

My husband and I got good jobs in nice middle class (predominately white) neighborhoods and raised our families there. My kids all went to private christian schools, predominately white, because as the mother of 3 black children, I knew that they were at-risk, and failure was not an option.

My kids were all successful in their academics, popular, strong leaders within their peers, and all were mature beyond their years. The maturity I attribute to the fact that as blacks, my husband's and my parents never had time for foolishness where their kids were concerned, and neither did we. We also knew that our black children would face a different world, and be held to a different standard than their white peers, when they went out into the world and they had to be prepared for it with the right skills and not a chip on their shoulder.

As it turned out my 2 sons dated white girls in high school because there were very few black girls in their schools or within the activities in which they were exposed on a daily basis. My boys participated in football, basketball, karate, and drama. (The drama came about when the school's drama coach needed some boys for Macbeth my older son's freshman year and the football coach volunteered some of his best players as a favor to the Drama Coach. My son was a natural and his younger brother was too, five years later. They also both were good singers. My oldest son also made the Varsity football team as a Freshman and was one of the 3 Co-varsity Captains his sophomore year. My sons both went out of state to colleges with small minority populations and both did well.

My daughter who was the oldest, dated only black men, and as far back as when she was in the first grade she had an entrepreneurial spirit about her and was driven towards having her own business. She was always more serious, and financially responsible than any of the men she ever dated. She only recently married the man of her dreams, (and my dreams for her) at age 33, and 8 years after her brother who is 3 yrs younger than her married the woman of his dreams at 22. Her brother married a white woman, and her younger brother will probably do so as well, because that is who they were raised around, and played with in their neighborhood, who they went to school with, hung out with, and socialized with. My daughter had to make the effort to meet and socialize with her young black peers, and finally moved to a southern state where there were many more young professionals. She has many white friends both professionally and socially, but she always was attracted to black men, (of which there were fewer of in her circles), and my guess is because she was searching for a man who was just like the father she had; who treated his wife like she was his queen, and his daughter like she was a princess, and she was convinced that he was out there, and if she was patient, eventually, she'd find him. Admittedly, as the years passed, I thought he'd never come, but, I'm glad she had more faith than I did.

[Long Drive]

110. Classic

Thanks for sharing.

[tblue37]

121. Your (excellent!) post makes me think that maybe men choose women who

look like the society's (white model or actress) standard of beauty, which we are exposed to constantly, while women are more likely to choose men who resemble the loving men they grew up around, whether fathers, uncles, brothers, other relatives, or neighbors.

Since a man's choice of a female partner is at least partly influenced by the evolutionary instinct to select a woman who will be recognized within his society as a sign of his status and success, the fact that our society holds up specifically white characteristics as beauty standards might cause at least some black men to be drawn to women who seem to match those standards more closely.

I knew a young man some years ago (a white guy) who had a dear, dear female friend (also white) who was fairly plain. Not ugly by any means, but just ordinary looking. I knew her well too, and she was much nicer, smarter, and more interesting than any of the girls he dated. He even admitted to me when I asked him why he didn't date her that he actually liked her much better than any of the girls he dated, but he was too embarrassed to date her because he knew his friends would tease him about not being able to get anyone prettier. In other words, he went out with girls he didn't like anywhere near as well, simply because he feared losing status if he dated someone his friends would not recognize as a "trophy."

I think women are under much, much less pressure to be with someone widely recognized as eye candy.

Don't forget that it is only within recent memory that black women have been acknowledged in our society as being beautiful, and even then, most of the ones who are recognized are relatively light-skinned women whose features meet white standards. Think of Beverly Johnson, Tyra Banks, Iman, Naomi Campbell, etc. Tyra Banks often comments on how hard it was for black women to even be accepted as models when she started out, and back then, there was only room for one, so she and Naomi Campbell ended up having to compete with each other for the few available slots for black women on the runway and on magazine shoots and covers.

I am just guessing, of course, but I wonder whether the status thing might have something to do with it.

I also wonder whether the fact that black women are famously strong-willed and strong minded--because they have had to become strong to survive the extra dose of crap our society dumps on them!--might also scare away some men, whether the men are white or black.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

126. Great read

You sound like you've had an interesting life and an awesome family.

I think it's interesting, relating to the op, that your sons dated white women because that seemed the most natural thing based on their peers, but your daughter didn't fall into that category, making an effort as you say.

[shaayecanaan]

170. Nice post...

and I imagine that the people who do consider this thread "radioactive" mean well, but their concern is probably a bit misplaced.

I very much enjoy discussing these sort of issues with African Americans when I get the opportunity (which does not come around often, being in Australia), but less so with white American liberals.

White American liberals seem to have this inbuilt filtration system that comes on whenever race is mentioned, and everything thenceforth that emanates from them is triple-filtered to make sure it contains nothing even faintly contentious or opinionated. But I can understand why (history, culture etc).

I have noted that Black people often pick up on the "filtration system", and they don't particularly like it:-

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1seelc/black_people_of_reddit_who_have_spent_time_in/

[Number23]

172. "I very much enjoy discussing these sort of issues with African Americans"

And I have NO DOUBT that they enjoy discussing this with you as well.

[shaayecanaan]

186. I'm glad you feel equipped to speak for them (nt)

[Number23]

192. No, but considering that you openly and loudly declared downthread that the "history and culture" of

race should be put aside in order to discuss the issue -- as if anyone could or would want to do that, particularly a black person -- again, I have absolutely NO DOUBT that your "sources" get such a thrill out of having these conversations with you.

[shaayecanaan]

194. I did?

No, but considering that you openly and loudly declared downthread that the "history and culture" of race should be put aside in order to discuss the issue

If that's how accurately you report other people's remarks, then I'm not sure you're particularly equipped to speak for anyone.

I do think that you mean well, but maybe you should let Black people speak for themselves.

[Number23]

195. And your cluelessness dripping with patronizing paternalism must make for excellent

"after discussion" discussion.

I don't blame you for pretending that downthread you didn't castigate "Americans" for daring to discuss the long term and centuries old cultural and economic associations with race and not try to act as though one can legitimately discuss race without taking these crucial, critical things into consideration when doing so. But you did.

And as for letting black people speak for themselves, that's exactly what I'm doing. It's probably not a bad thing you self-admittedly come across very few of us.

[shaayecanaan]

199. Some presumptions on your part, then

This is essentially my background, which I've posted here before:-

My family fled the Lebanese Civil War, firstly to West Africa, where there is a substantial, tight-knit Lebanese community. My family began working alongside other Lebanese in various import/export businesses. They were already reasonably well-to-do, and became considerably richer during this time. African governments are by and large corrupt and incompetent, so rather than trying to organise their own supplies of whatever they needed they would buy them directly from us. Then of course you have the Western NGOs, who are always looking to buy stuff but don't really care what they pay as they are spending their donors' money. Almost always whatever they bought was at a 10% markup.

My family eventually "graduated" to exporting rough gemstones, which meant we spent some time in and out of central Africa. This was partly because Chinese traders had started to displace the Lebanese shop owners in West Africa, basically because they could source product more cheaply. Through the gem trade, we became, and remain, what people even in Western countries would consider wealthy. This financed our emigration to the UK and eventually Australia. For myself, in a fit of adolescent pique, I refused to work in the old man's business for the old man's money, and so became a lawyer, even though my siblings still work in the family business.

I've spent nearly half my life in Africa. I can speak reasonable Hausa and can get by in Igbo. My guess is if both of us were randomly airdropped into Africa, an hour later I would be selling t-shirts while you would be getting mugged on your way to the US embassy.

I may come across African-Americans quite rarely, but I make more phone calls to Africans in Africa than you've had hot dinners.

The OP, for what its worth, is British.

[Number23]

207. "My guess is if both of us were randomly airdropped into Africa an hour later I would be selling

t-shirts while you would be getting mugged on your way to the US embassy."

Yes, someone who apparently doesn't know the difference between black AMERICANS and Africans would be chilling like Bob Dylan in Africa! I am DYING. Your attempts to pat yourself on the back have done nothing but show you don't know fuck all about either culture.

The OP could be British but considering that he is posting on a US-based message board, it's pretty safe to assume he's talking about black AMERICAN men marrying white AMERICAN women. No indication of Africa or Africans to be seen. But big props to you and your language skills. One day, maybe you'll be able to add English to that list!

[shaayecanaan]

209. Well, admittedly English is not my first language...

but I should point out that you missed a subordinating conjunction. There should be a "that" before "you don't know fuck all about either culture".

However, I do apologise for my halting command of the Queen's tongue. It is truly a marvel that you have managed to understand me thus far.

[Number23]

210. "That" is as superfluous to that sentence as your contribution has been to this topic.

And no need to apologize for your English. Your grammar is far less disturbing than the "thinking" going on behind it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

196. Let Black people speak for themselves?

You do realize that Number 23 is a real live actual Black person, right? Think she's entitled to speak for herself on this?

[shaayecanaan]

197. My bad

I presumed that she was white. A bad and unwarranted assumption on my part.

For what its worth, this is the statement I made, and which the poster in question appears to be developing into a novella's worth of projections:-

Don't worry too much about the Americans upthread. It is very difficult for them to discuss race in anything but the most anodyne terms. Culture, history, etc etc etc...

[Sheldon Cooper]

198. Yes, I read the comment she referenced.

And I think she's right.

[shaayecanaan]

200. That is magnificent

Whatever would she do without your support?

Love your sig and avatar by the way. Cutting edge pop culture reference right there. Maybe you should put in a Simpsons quote or something.

[Sheldon Cooper]

201. How about a Simpsons pic?

[shaayecanaan]

202. That's perfect

You should put a sticker of that on your iPhone. Somehow I feel confident in predicting that you have an iPhone.

[Number23]

208. spew!!

That is classic.

But the person read a book and a few blogs about black folks, talks on the phone (ALOT!!1) to Africans and lives in Australia. Of course that makes him extra super de doper uber qualified to pontificate on why black AMERICAN men marry alot of white AMERICAN women!

Oh Lordy... if this exchange does not prove PRECISELY why I a few other black posters feel like DU is just about the last place that something as personal, subjective and steeped in culture and history (despite that person's ignorant protestations that culture and history have no business in race discussions) as interracial marriage should be discussed, I don't know what will.

[shaayecanaan]

211. re

Oh Lordy... if this exchange does not prove PRECISELY why I a few other black posters feel like DU is just about the last place that something as personal, subjective and steeped in culture and history (despite that person's ignorant protestations that culture and history have no business in race discussions) as interracial marriage should be discussed, I don't know what will.

...and yet, here we all are.

See you tomorrow.

[Number23]

212. "and yet, here we all are."

And the 200 relies and all of six recs and the number of people that told the OP -- who never even came back to his own thread -- to mind his business and you conclusively proving beyond all shadow of doubt exactly WHY so many people of color feel that DU handles topics like this only marginally better than a Yahoo! comments section.

Yep. Here you all are.

[shaayecanaan]

213. well, the yahoo comments section probably gets a lot more eyeballs than here

which is a bit depressing why you think about it. It always struck me that the people who insisted that posting here is interminable agony are always the ones with the highest post counts. Like I said, we're all still here. We'll probably all still be posting from the nursing home.

If I see the op about, I'll make sure to tell him to come back here so that you can tell him to fuck off again.

https://m.

[Number23]

13. Lord knows, I've heard things that could answer that question over the years!

Probably not be the same things you've heard, though.

[aikoaiko]

4. Boom.

[dissentient]

6. lol

[CatWoman]

7. because they want to?

and I'm not trying to be sarcastic

[uppityperson]

8. more black men marry white women than white women marry black men?

[hollowdweller]

14. I know more of #2

The majority of black/white couples I know the white woman initiated the relationship with the black man. I'm not sure there's a common thread as to why. Probably a million reasons.

[Iggo]

29. That would be my understanding of the "vice versa" part of it, yes.

[treestar]

9. Black women less often find white men attractive?

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Truth

I've heard this on occasion.

[arcane1]

79. Chris Rock has a funny routine on that subject.

And I will repeat none of it here!

[stevenleser]

98. Yep, hard to know if he believes what he was saying or if it's all a joke

I find a lot of "what men or women like" in general is affected by subtle or not so subtle cultural influences. If all of your life you have been hearing that x traits in men or x traits in women make them attractive, I think you will tend to prefer those traits. Not always, but it seems to have a profound effect.

We can see that change over time so it can't be nature, it has to be nurture.

[arcane1]

99. Agreed. It certainly changed over time for me. After being raised by television...

i tended to be attracted only to people who resembled people on TV. Now that TV hasn't been in my life for a long time, I'm attraceted to damn near everyone

[Iris]

104. what a happy place to be!

[Stellar]

114. Close to the truth, but not the whole truth...

It's not that they don't find white guys attractive, they do. But most prefer a BMW. Black women are always more interested in a BMW. And as a black woman...that was all I've ever heard being talked about.

But as another poster pointed out, a white woman will go looking for a black man most of the time. I raised both of my sons in a predominately black middle class neighborhood, and they met both women near where we lived - two to three years apart. One son is now happily married to her, and I have two lovely grandsons.

But then, I've also heard that white guys don't find black women attractive but I've met a lot of flirty white guys in my life. However, I never gave it a try at the time because I was young and only looking for a BMW.

[AgingAmerican]

137. A black girl I used to work with told me..

...that she really, really thinks white guys are cute, but doesn't know how to talk to them. A white guy I work with says the same thing about black girls, whom he dates occasionally. I say to each their own.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. ****jury duty avoidance post****

[Brother Buzz]

26. Smart! I'll jump on your bandwagon

[Nye Bevan]

40. Isn't there an option to decline to serve when called for jury duty? (nt)

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. There is, but why be called at all? (nt)

[Number23]

11. Not only is this such a bizarre question that I have no idea why it was posted, but I TRULY cannot

understand why you think you'd ever be able to find the answer to such a weird question on this web site with its well known and clearly established lack of diversity.

I'd like to know why so many white men are marrying Asian women, which is BY FAR the most common interracial marriage standard in the U.S. Do you think that DU would be the correct or an even moderately reasonable place for such a question?

[LittleBlue]

69. Out of curiosity, why do you think that would be an inappropriate question?

As someone in that situation, why do you think it would be inappropriate to ask a question about white men and Asian women?

[Number23]

71. I stated quite clearly why I think it's stupid to ask these questions here.

DU is known for lots of things but being a hot bed of racial and cultural diversity ain't one of them.

[NCTraveler]

127. I truly think some here don't know this.

"being a hot bed of racial and cultural diversity ain't one of them."

While I do think it is an acceptable question to ask, even here, I also get your reason for feeling this isn't the appropriate venue for well rounded discussion on the issue. Your point was clear and honest.

[ND-Dem]

75. +100

[Arugula Latte]

134. Really? Why is it bizarre?

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

I think it's an interesting sociological issue, and the OP has some data to confirm the premise. Why is this inherently racist to explore this dynamic? It's not like the OP is saying: "How dare 'our' white women marry black men!"

[Number23]

158. Because DU does not and never has done race issues well. And it probably never will

There are plenty of comments in this thread underscoring that point. Particularly the ones stating that it's because "black women are deemed not as attractive" as white women, are too "strong willed" or "it's because of socio-economics" which blithely ignores the fact that by every single, solitary measure, black women tend to be more educated and make more money than black men.

DU is probably one of the last places I'd discuss racial issues and especially something as personal and subjective as interracial marriage.

[Arugula Latte]

190. I guess I think that racial issues can be talked about, and even offensive stereotypes talked about,

without it meaning that people are endorsing these awful points of view. There is a complex mix of "race relations," power hierarchies, bigotry, economic factors, media factors, etc. behind all this and it is sort of interesting to consider how they all play out in light of these marriage statistics.

[Number23]

193. Well, obviously we differ on that. Particularly as I find that alot of people doing the offensive

stereotyping are completely unaware that they are doing so which makes the support those offensive stereotypes almost always seem to get here that much more unhelpful.

[KamaAina]

143. Likely because so many Asians are middle-class

so they live in the same neighborhoods, go to the same schools, etc. as white people.

[Jim Lane]

147. That's probably true but it doesn't explain the gender difference.

Per the data in the OP (from this Wikipedia table), the white male - Asian female couples are more than twice as numerous as the Asian male - white female couples. If there were nothing involved besides the socioeconomic factors that you mention, one would expect the two types of pairings to be about equally common.

[AngryAmish]

12. Black women are not considered as attractive than white women.

OK Cupid and others have done surveys and mined their data.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/

So black women are considered the least attractive on the distaff side, while asian men are least attractive for the dudes.

Read the whole thing. It breaks down as expected.

[Number23]

15. And right here, perhaps this is the reason behind this weird, out of the blue OP?

Is it trash black women day on in GD? We already got people who support social justice trashed yesterday.

I guess OK Cupid, a dating site that Jezebel and others have talked about repeatedly appealing to the lowest, saddest, and most sexist dateless people on the Internet, is now the decider of why black men don't marry black women (even though statistically 80+% of black men actually DO marry black women but I don't think facts are wanted in a discussion like this).

[hollowdweller]

17. That's wild as hell.

[dilby]

44. I dated two black women on OK Cupid, both were very attractive.

They just lived to far away, one of the girls lived on a ranch out in eastern Oregon and the other lived in Eugene. Well and also one of them was very conservative and voted straight republican, she was the person who introduced me to Duck Dynasty.

[JustAnotherGen]

81. Stop!

You did online dating? What is that like?

[dilby]

84. Pretty awesome. n/t

[JI7]

52. this is bs. for this to be true you would need to show that they are being rejected

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

128. Whatever. I'm white as they come and think there are many beautiful black women out there

Not really Tyra and Hallie either, although they look great. Serena Williams is more my type when it comes to African American women.

[AngryAmish]

129. I'm with you on that.

[onpatrol98]

16. Hmm...

I guess perspective is everything. I'm a black woman married to a white man. Maybe, fewer black women take them up on their offers.

I'm assuming you're thinking along the lines of..."man go get woman". (insert appropriate caveman grunt). But, from my perspective, I didn't say yes to the first man that asked me to marry him.

There was a lot of pressure on me NOT to marry my husband from family and friends. When my uncle and his wife, who happened to be white married, he got teased, but no real pressure about marrying the "plantation owner". I've one aunt and one uncle who are still unhappy with me, and I've been married almost 20 years. Many of my male friends simply wouldn't give a care what their family thought.

I'm sure everyone's perspective is different. And, I've heard big talk from white males not finding black women attractive for various reasons. But...often, I've found it's from men, who few women from any background would want, anyway...so I'm grateful.

I assume culture and gender roles in society play a large role.

[Number23]

21. Heyyyy!!!

It's so good to see you!! Happy new Year!

And, I've heard big talk from white males not finding black women attractive for various reasons. But...often, I've found it's from men, who few women from any background would want, anyway...so I'm grateful.

PREACH IT.

[onpatrol98]

46. Hey!!!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

I've been missing our group.

I drop in from time to time and see that things HAVE NOT CHANGED ON DU ONE BIT.

It's still full of good people. But, from time to time, its also still full of something else...So, I try not to stay too long.

[Number23]

54. Nope, nothing has changed here. Not one damn thing.

It's still full of good people. But, from time to time, its also still full of something else...So, I try not to stay too long.

No need to explain. I understand completely and agree even more. Just hope you pop into the group and say hi before you leave again. You have definitely been missed.

[JustAnotherGen]

102. Nothing has changed here

But glad to see you!

Tell me - why do tomatoes grow on vines?
Why do they turn green first?

[Liberal_in_LA]

18. you could ask:why do more white women marry black men than white men

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:58 PM - Edit history (2)

Marry black women but that is never asked. The point of these types of questions is to pathologize the black community

[leftstreet]

22. +1

It's so obvious

Surprised to see this kind of crap on DU

[kelliekat44]

27. And that is the way question should be asked. nt

[nomorenomore08]

176. There's always an undertone of disapproval to it. Like white women are "supposed" to be with white

men, and black men are "stealing" them away.

[kimbutgar]

19. I am a light skinned black women who married a white man 25+ years!!!

My sister is also married to a white man. We grew up in white areas so we were both comfortable with white men. The black men I was interested in were only into white women. But I know several black women who would never date a white man and are looking for a good brother unfortunately the good brothers who are worthwhile want white women. My husband has helped thaw perceptions of the scary white man with some of my black women friends.

But I think it's harder for a white man to take a black women home. You have to have a thick skin if your white boyfriend's family and friends are closet racists. Asian women are easier for them to accept than a black women. I broke the barrier in my husbands family, now one of his cbousin's daughter is married to a biracial black man and another nephew is married to a Hispanic woman. They all look up to us as a stable marriage after some same race divorces in the family.

[Number23]

28. I'm a black woman married to a white man too. My husband is the first white man I ever gave a second

glance to. Before him, I had a nice string of gorgeous, smart, sexy as hell black men -- GOOD brothers -- who were not at all interested in white women and still aren't.

Maybe where someone is raised has a lot to do with this. But I've known many GOOD, hell GREAT brothers that have only exclusively dated and married black women and a whooooooole lot of really trifling brothers that have done nothing but chase after white women. I think anyone can find both sides of that coin really easily.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. Agreed

And being mixed race myself - black father . . . I never imagined I would marry a white European.

[Number23]

49. Girl, love is love. I'm glad that I finally grew up and recognized that for myself.

I remember being actually DISGUSTED when white men (some of whom were FOOOIIINE) approached me when I was younger. I probably missed out on some genuinely wonderful men because of my "Brothers Only" stance.

And a lot of these men saying that they don't find black women attractive have absolutely no idea what they sound like or what time it is. I'm the first black woman my husband has ever been with and I have rocked his world and his beliefs and perceptions in so many ways he's lost count. He will truly never be the same again and for that, we are both immensely thankful.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. You know

Ihad a six year relationship with a white man and I always had one foot out the door. I've date white, Asian, middle eastern, Latino and even a white South African - - but I couldn't commit. The Gio knew who he wanted and wouldn't let me go.

[Egnever]

57. Any man who says he doesn't find black women attractive

Isn't looking IMHO.

[Number23]

60. I think you're right about that, Eggy

Probably doesn't find black women attractive because he isn't TRYING to.

[Egnever]

66. The idea you need to try seems a bit much as well

I know I don't have to try.

[d_r]

88. Yep. nt

[LittleBlue]

111. +1000. A while back, someone showed me a Mark Twain quote:

Nearly all black and brown skins are beautiful, but a beautiful white skin is rare....Where dark complexions are massed, they make the whites look bleached-out, unwholesome, and sometimes frankly ghastly. I could notice this as a boy, down South in the slavery days before the war. The splendid black satin skin of the South African Zulus of Durban seemed to me to come very close to perfection....

The white man's complexion makes no concealments. It can't. It seemed to have been designed as a catch-all for everything that can damage it. Ladies have to paint it, and powder it, and cosmetic it, and diet it with arsenic, and enamel it, and be always enticing it, and persuading it, and pestering it, and fussing at it, to make it beautiful; and they do not succeed. But these efforts show what they think of the natural complexion, as distributed. As distributed it needs these helps. The complexion which they try to counterfeit is one which nature restricts to the few--to the very few. To ninety-nine persons she gives a bad complexion, to the hundredth a good one. The hundredth can keep it--how long? Ten years, perhaps.

The advantage is with the Zulu, I think. He starts with a beautiful complexion, and it will last him through. And as for the Indian brown--firm, smooth, blemishless, pleasant, and restful to the eye, afraid of no color, harmonizing with all colors and adding a grace to them all--I think there is no sort of chance for the average white complexion against that rich and perfect tint.

http://www.twainquotes.com/Complexions.html

[Arugula Latte]

133. It's funny. My son complains about being so white.

My husband and I are both white, but my husband's side has some pretty powerful milky-ass English/Irish genes, which came through for my son. My daughter and I have a bit more of a tinge of olive skin from some Eastern European genes. My son wishes he had a little more cafe a bit less au lait.

[LittleBlue]

136. I know the feeling!

Most of my ancestors came from far northern Europe. It was no fun having to use sunscreen while sitting in the shade.

[Arugula Latte]

138. This is you:

[LittleBlue]

139. Oh dear

Repressed childhood memories flooding back

[Arugula Latte]

140. Aww, sorry.

[pipi_k]

171. I respectfully disagree

Everybody has a "type".

Although I'm white myself, I don't find men with pasty white skin and light hair (or, even worse, red hair) attractive.

No chest hair (and again, even worse...back hair).

Big musclebound men...no.


So if a black guy didn't find white women attractive, would anyone here say the same thing about him...that he's not looking?

Probably not.

People can't help the type they're attracted to.

[onpatrol98]

179. even worse...back hair

I shuddered, when I read this...

I can't "unsee" that mental image.

But, you have to be careful. Stranger things have happened. You might find a "hairy back guy" you like. Then, all that talk of type...just goes out of the window. You know, he has a great sense of humor...loves children and pets, adores the ground you walk on...he's just got that one flaw.

"I was going to include an image...but, I just couldn't bring myself to download one. I'm hoping all that back hair is fake!!!"

[pipi_k]

187. If he's all that

and has a hairy back, he gets it waxed or whatever to keep it hairless.

I'm just not a huge fan of body hair and don't find it attractive...

[cwydro]

59. ...

[JCMach1]

65. Difference is whatever you make of it... I am white as hell

oldest European y-chromosome except for Neanderthal... I am married to a Kenyan woman. Once I stayed in Africa awhile, I even began noticing the subtle differences between tribes and East African vs. West African.

Weirdly, I also recently uncovered significant Native American heritage in my background (Tuscarora, Chowan)

Ummm... maybe white men should spend more time in Africa they would have a greater appreciation.

[Stellar]

116. What does 'light-skin black woman' have to do with marrying a white guy.

Light to dark skinned....you are still black. Or were you trying to pass for white?

Your whole post sounds more like white person trapped in a black persons body. What is it that I'm getting wrong. Help me understand this.

[benz380]

144. I was wondering the same thing. Why mention that? nt

[Hekate]

20. I suggest you do a door-to-door survey

[kwassa]

67. Lol!

[JustAnotherGen]

87. You rock!

[onpatrol98]

180. Oohhh

I know just the right neighborhood, too.

[BlueJazz]

23. I don't see anything wrong with this thread. I've thought about the same thing once in awhile.

Actually it's an interesting topic. I'd like to know the answers just because I might learn something (heaven Forbid).

[hifiguy]

24. As Robert Preston so trenchantly asked in Blake Edwards' S.O.B.

"Is Batman a transvestite??? Who knows?"

And it's none of our business anyway.

[bemildred]

25. Yep, it's a mystery.

[safeinOhio]

30. I never noticed

[still_one]

31. Why does it matter to you?

[cwydro]

32. And I'm a gay white woman

who dated a black woman some years ago (still friends).

She's only been with white women...so go figure.

In my opinion, people fall in love with people....not colors.

[Glassunion]

33. It may just simply be circumstantial or social exposure.

My father was white, and mom is black. They simply met in school, happened to be in a class together. Worked on a group project. Got to know each other, fell in love, and got married.

Now my grandfather's (father's side) second wife was Asian. They met at work, worked together, got to know each other, fell in love, and got married.

My wife is white. We met (literally bumped into each other) at a concert, we started talking, she is really smart, I wanted to get to know her better, so I took her out for breakfast after the show, over time I really got to know her, fell in love, and got married.

In all 3 cases, we were simply put together by circumstance. There was no conscious effort to seek a particular partner.

[Lex]

34. Because black men - white women are more socio-economically paralleled than

white men - black women. IF you are more socio-economically parallelled, then you are more likely to meet each other in social or work settings.

Generally speaking.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. So black men marry down?

Black women are much more likely to be have graduated University than our male counterparts.

[Lex]

48. What?

That is quite a weird conclusion to draw.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. Not really - its why the terminology White Trash irks me

It was often thrown at my mother by white people back in the day. Tee hee - her father owned a construction company in So Cal in the 1950's after he completed his Army service - and was glad she dumped the poor white Roman Catholic Army Private for the black rich Green Beret! . Military Family (my mom's dad) and she was supposed to know better than to bring home a man without stripes.


Come to think of it - the night my dad met husband they dove into my husbands military service in Italy. He was pleased he had done more than the mandatory and had been an officer.

It's real alpha male bullshit.

[uponit7771]

185. +1

[mythology]

35. My best guess is that there are social norms that play a large part

First in that the standard of beauty, in general, is white. I'm not saying that is a good thing, merely that it is a thing.

Also I think there haven't been many high profile relationships between black women and men of other races, both in real life or in popular fictional culture. Look Who's Coming To Dinner was a black guy and white woman for example.

I think there is also an unfortunate stereotype that black women have an attitude. Again, I'm not saying this is a good or accurate thing.

I also think part of it has been that in large part the role of raising black families has fallen to women given the disproportionate impact of the wars on drugs and crime that has resulted in so many young black men being imprisoned, and it's harder for single mom's to have outside relationships.

Again, I'd like to repeat that I don't believe these are good things, merely that they may play a role in explaining the disparity.

[AverageJoe90]

36. A good bit of this seems to be a historical coincidence than anything, TBH.

I don't discount the possibility of cultural factors here.....some others have explained these better than I could, But that doesn't seem to account for it all, either.

[Thor_MN]

37. Who cares? MYOB.

[JI7]

39. it all has to do with how likely one is to come across

And interact with others.

There were probably more cases of black men and white women who would be in the same place than white men and black women.

A good example is the chinese men who have been marrying black women in some countries in africa . But not much the other way around because chinese women are not going to those other countries as much as the men are so no chances to interact .

[WorseBeforeBetter]

42. I dunno. But can we toss in pit bulls for even more "fun"?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. where's the Olive Garden gift card? n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

53. The Never-Ending Pasta Pass?

Didn't DU fight about that?!

[eridani]

120. And isn't she supposed to be breast-feeding? n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

125. the dogs??? n/t

[eridani]

154. The kid!!! Duh. n/t

[Scuba]

50. Thread winner!

See you at the Olive Garden!!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

55. Only if you're hoodless! (n/t)

[notadmblnd]

96. you know, I've never been to an Olive Garden.

Am I really missing anything?

[Scuba]

103. Yes, you're missing bad Italian food and poorly paid wait staff.

[nomorenomore08]

183. Aww... Such a cute picture!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

51. We need science to settle it!

A few things are in play: race, mobility, and population.

1. Likes prefer likes
2. Idk: Black men are more mobile than black women???? Could be more about culture than financial.
3. White women outnumber black women so naturally it will work out that way.


I found this but don't feel like reading it. lol

Enjoy!

https://books.google.com/books?id=NDl1AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA245&lpg=PA245&dq=are+black+men+more+upwardly+mobile+than+black+women&source=bl&ots=kB70GecAAz&sig=-iKAT1Rukd1SgI4GbHQtsRwIOfU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xYbiVNjEJYW6ggTLgoCoBg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=are%20black%20men%20more%20upwardly%20mobile%20than%20black%20women&f=false

[Rex]

58. So this is what keeps you up at night, good to know.

Seriously your replies are embarrassing enough, thank you for pointing yourself out to the DU community. PLEASE post more OPs.

[LeftyMom]

61. 1 members have recommended this thread (displayed in chronological order): AverageJoe90

Just recording that for future reference.

God, this website sometimes. I swear.

[BlueJazz]

74. Does the topic bother you? I approach the question the same as a Physics...

....observation. (my degree). I don't understand why some are getting bent-out-of-shape about it.

To me...it would be the same as asking: Why do woman/men sometimes marry people that (to others) are totally incompatible with them?
Maybe it has a special evolutionary reason. Mix the gene pool??? I don't know.

[LeftyMom]

76. I see a lot of people who are chomping at the bit to make offensive comments about race and gender.

So far none of them surprise, they're the same people who are ALWAYS making ignorant and bigoted comments about race and gender.

[JustAnotherGen]

90. I noticed it too!

DU does not do matters of the heart well in general.

[BlueJazz]

92. Yeah, you may have a point.

[betsuni]

109. They all have a story about the

time a black woman said something mean to them. Yes, yes, yes, we'll save some nails and a cross for you guys.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

130. And I see a lot of people who aren't and are telling some great stories about their life....

....as an interracial couple.

[CreekDog]

148. Well that member was on two time outs, both happened because of his posts about African Americans

So, there is already a pattern established and this recommend reasonably raises eyebrows.

[LittleBlue]

63. Many black men have adopted western beauty standards

Dark-skinned black women are disparaged as undesirable. The most common slur I see used is "dark butts", which makes no sense. Many of the men who use this slur are dark-skinned themselves. Their mothers are probably dark-skinned too.

On the bright side, hopefully it encourages black women to date out more. Black women, I think, limit themselves more than black men, which explains the interracial marriage gap. I think too many black women decide they'll date exclusively within their race and wait around until Mr Right comes around. More and more, they are being introduced to interracial relationships out of necessity, and they're finding guys with whom they're more compatible.

[JI7]

68. no. this is not true of many black men

And weird example considering another stereotype is how the butt is one of the things black men love about black women

[LittleBlue]

72. Read up on it

http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/g/definitionofcolorism.htm

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dark%20butt

Judging by black women on the internet, it's one of their most common complaints about the difficulties of dating.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. I've never experienced that

I think a lot of white American men find bi racial black women very intriguing and accessible. French, Spaniard, Turks they will always throw you over for a Lupita Nyongo type.

Just my experience in the dating world.

But Colorism can't really be discussed in a white forum.

It would be like a bunch of black women sitting around talking about bottle blondes matching the carpet and the drapes. < We don't do that!

[LittleBlue]

80. Yes, I've heard that

I liked that Lupita made the cover of People's Most Beautiful issue. It can start to shift beauty standards away from the traditional, or at least present other forms of beauty as acceptable and mainstream. I only learned what colorism was in the last year. Most whites have never heard of that term before.

IMO it's easy to see a thread like this and make generalizations about black women. They're "X, Y and Z, that explains the OP's question." By understanding colorism's existence, it allows us to appreciate the unique difficulties black women face in dating.

[treestar]

156. In a totally integrated society

where all was considered equal, it would almost mean that a black person would be more likely to marry a white person than another black person, being the minority. Probably in about 5000 years all humans will be a light brown. With modern technology and transportation, we see a lot more of and are more likely to live near people who are different.

I recall my black roommate who criticized another black girl who had mostly white friends. Same thing, there are so many white people, if you are out there in the world, why wouldn't a black person have more white friends than black? Or, as it will come to be, a white person's nonwhite friends would be about the same number as white friends. That's how racism goes away, hopefully.

[dilby]

64. Well there is a finite number of Women in the United States.

So maybe that has something to do with it, or you could go with cultural reasons, or attraction reason or pick any of the numerous reasons that someone chooses a mate. Generally people are picky and have a long laundry list of reasons they picked someone or hopefully they had a long laundry list or they probably are not going to be very happy in their marriage.

[Orrex]

119. I believe that this point was addressed in Blazing Saddles.

[craigmatic]

70. The white wife/ black husband thing is new because historically the dominant society didn't want to

see it happen and now more black guys are willing to see what else is out there but now it's generally accepted where as black woman/white man thing has been happening since slavery. I don't know why that isn't more popular now.

[kwassa]

73. I don't know. I am a white man married to a black woman.

The Episcopal church we attend is quite diverse, with people from all over the world in it, and many interracial relationships.

What makes it remarkable to me is that there are at least six other white male-black female married couples in the church. That is a concentration.

[JustAnotherGen]

85. Thank you for weighing in

Maybe it's our region?

Like I think "our friend" is from a remote part of Texas where people aren't as divided by class? Saw he weighed in but didn't read his comments.

I think it's funny that as much as "class" is supposed to rule out everything including race around DU -

People would be shocked that a white man would marry a woman regardless of race that has the same lifestyle and experiences and yes - background as he does.

My husband and I have race and nationality at play - but our families, values shaped by our upbringing are eerily similar.

[kwassa]

91. The world of relationships is dynamic, not static. There are more multicultural/ interracial ..

relationships all the time.

Here in the DC suburbs is a vast mix of humanity, with the local school students originating from all the racial groups and geographic locales in the world, due to immigration. This, in itself, has diluted the old static relationship between black and white Americans. There are many transracial adoptions, too, so the parents and kids can look very different from one another. Modern times.

[JustAnotherGen]

95. Good points!

My mother in law was not shocked when my husband showed her my picture.

When they lived in the states in the 1970's they deliberately picked a part of the Bronx that was racially diverse. Why come to America for a few years and live in an Italian neighborhood? Anyways - he almost flunked kindergarten because was too busy teaching Italin to the Haitian and Brazilian little girls and learning French and Portuguese to read and write in English.

He had physical "type" from the time he was five!

[kwassa]

101. I was standing in line at a bank in Los Angeles ...

where I lived for many years.

The guy in front of me was chatting with the teller in some weird language mix that I could not figure out. When it was my turn to transact with the teller, I asked "What was that?" The teller, who appeared Asian, laughed. He told me that it was a mixture of Japanese and Spanish. He said "you would have had to grow up in our neighborhood". Somewhere on Crenshaw Boulevard.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. I have two African American cousin in laws, both African American women.

It is anomalous. In most cross racial marriages the male is from the politcally and economically dominant group.

[MohRokTah]

82. The answer is simple. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

[AngryAmish]

107. There once was a man from Venus, who had a very large...

[spanone]

83. none of my business. really.

[Anansi1171]

86. Kick and Rec. Great question, framed ably and without malice.

The question presupposes race and sex; with the latter being perhaps an important consideration. I can't help but notice that two of the pairings you mentioned seem somewhat popular fetishes in American culture.

[Blue_Tires]

157. "Popular fetish?"

Is that all we are now?

[Anansi1171]

203. Au Contraire! Not at all...

...simply one small part of complex picture?

[Anansi1171]

203. Au Contraire! Not at all...

...simply one small part of complex picture?

[Ykcutnek]

89. We got 12" of snow in my neck of the woods today. EOT

[Glassunion]

94. Neat!

[bravenak]

93. I'm sorry you feel stressed about this.

[JustAnotherGen]

100. You won the thread

[msanthrope]

152. I smell gefilte fish frying. nt

[JonLP24]

97. You couldn't answer a question like that

every single individual marriage is different. Personally, I never ask for dates or inquire about interest in relationships, those that target me and mutually interested I go with. I was married to a black woman myself but race was never an issue in terms of what happened in the relationship.

The only thing I do know of people constantly have said in comment of a white woman in relationship with a black man, she only likes the black guys or something similar. Make an assertion on what they're into but for me race isn't a deciding factor

[kelly1mm]

105. Perhaps black women do not find white men attractive to the same extent

that white women find black men attractive?

As good a guess as any I suppose ......

[Depaysement]

106. Simple answer

Once they go black they never go back!

[shaayecanaan]

112. Its quite a disparity in Britain

about 4 in 10 young black men have a white wife. Obviously this creates problems for Black women (presuming that equal numbers of men and women are heterosexual, which is about right). They either must find a partner abroad (and many do, usually from Nigeria and other English speaking countries) or take turns, or take a white partner (about 20% of Black women do).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/how-many-black-men-have-white-partners-1307094.html

The other trend are white-male/Asian-female couples. I think the reasons are pretty mundane myself. Generally speaking, Asians are petite, have soft features, and are more like the ideal woman. Black men are taller, broader, and more like the ideal man.

The interesting fact is that where there is a cultural taboo against exogamy, women hew to it much more strongly and for longer than men. Jewish intermarriage was historically low before increasing up to about 55% in recent times. However, Jewish women lagged behind men for a generation. Their exogamy rates remained around 20% before finally climbing up to 50%.

The implications are quite startling when you think about it - something like one-third of an entire generation Jewish women forswore marriage rather than violate the taboo against exogamy when faced with a shortage of men.

Don't worry too much about the Americans upthread. It is very difficult for them to discuss race in anything but the most anodyne terms. Culture, history, etc etc etc...

[treestar]

115. My theory on Asian women

is that though we may find American men sexist, they aren't compared to Asian men. So if I'm an Asian woman, I find American men to be considerably less sexist and a good thing.

I've also heard Russian men may be very sexist, so you have those Russian women willing to marry American men, who are less sexist. Also could have to do with the green card.

Broad brush of course, so there are exceptions.

[shaayecanaan]

159. I don't know that Asian American men are more sexist than the norm...

there may well be a stereotype to that effect, but there is also a stereotype of Black men being more sexist, and as the OP notes, there is still a trend of Asian women marrying Black men as well.

There is also, as someone noted, a trend within the gay community of Asian men being perceived as less masculine and more effeminate.

[treestar]

161. It's all stereotype, agreed

Anecdotally there are more Asian women married to white men than the other way round. Maybe I should start my own OP, lol. That just struck me as the reasoning that could be behind why we don't see white women with Asian men nearly as much. Even taking race out of it, Russian men are white generally. You don't see white American women bringing Russian men over here at the same rate as the opposite. Accepting the stereotype for a moment, an AA man is a better match for a white American woman!

[shaayecanaan]

169. Well, you don't see as many mail-order grooms as mail-order brides

generally.

Anecdotally, in those situations where women do sponsor foreign spouses (such as where Black American women sponsor Nigerian men) the relationships tend not to be as stable as where American men sponsor foreign women.

I used to work in migration, and had experience with a couple of instances where Australian women had sponsored foreign spouses ("eat drink pray love" pretty much sums it up). Usually those relationships failed within the requisite time required for the man to obtain a visa (two years). I felt incredibly sorry for a child of one such man who had migrated with him and had experienced a year of decent living standards but was unfortunately sent back to Ghana with her dad.

"Hell hath no fury..."

[Lee-Lee]

113. I suspect some of the much higher rates of Asian wives vs husbands

Is on account of many Servicemembers who meet and marry someone overseas. If you look at the last 40 years this is always most likely to happen in Korea, Japan, and Germany with a much higher percentage from Korea.

If you don't believe me spend some time around an Army or Air Force base, you will always find a significant Korean population made up mostly of Servicemembers wives.

Change to Navy or USMC and that shifts to Japanese and Filipino, reflective of where each branch has overseas bases.

[AngryAmish]

165. Drop in the bucket demographically

Asian and Hispanic preference for men is strongly toward white men.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/11/30/247530095/are-you-interested-dating-odds-favor-white-men-asian-women

Women get three times the interactions men do.
All men seemed to be more interested in people outside their race.
Black men and women get the lowest response rates to their messages.
All women except black women are most drawn to white men, and men of all races (with one notable exception) prefer Asian women."

They whys of this? Everyone can argue their preconcieved notions since that is what us humans do best. MRAs argue biology. Feminists argue patriarchy. Marxists argue capitalism. Christians argue Jesus.

[tenderfoot]

117. What race-baiting bullshit

eom

[Orrex]

118. Vice versa? As opposed to white women marrying black men?

I suspect that the numbers are more or less identical.

[Captain Stern]

122. Interesting question.

I'm assuming your numbers are from the United States only.

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers from other countries.

[Orsino]

123. Because taboos aren't all abandoned on the same timeline in all locales. n/t

[Jim Lane]

124. Response to all those asking "Why do you care" or disparaging the question

The OP presented data about interracial marriages, data that showed significant differences in the gender composition of the possible pairings. It's a fact about our world and so the OP wondered about it. I see nothing wrong with expressing such curiosity.

Meanwhile, elsewhere on DU, there's a thread about possible life on Europa. It's highly likely that no one now reading DU will ever set foot on Europa (a moon of Jupiter). Nevertheless, in that entire thread, not one person jumps in to ask "Who cares" or the like.

One characteristic of humans (of all races) is that we tend to be curious. We see things, we ask questions, we get answers, and the answers lead us to new questions.

Of course, different people are curious about different things. That's why 678 DUers have viewed the thread about Europa, but many more haven't. This difference is no big deal. There's really no point to belittling people who are curious about things that don't happen to interest you. Save your ire for someone who posts along the lines of "Why are (members of particular racial group) so (unflattering description)?"

[ismnotwasm]

135. It's a sensitive topic

Full of historical baggage. Don't be disingenuous.

I've known about Europa for some time BTW.

[Jim Lane]

145. That's precisely my point.

There's such a thing as historical baggage and being sensitive to it. If I were talking with a Rand Paul fan, and kidding him about something the Senator had said, I might refer to "your boy Rand Paul." If, however, the same situation arose with a Cory Booker fan, I would still kid him but I wouldn't use that phrase, because of the historic racist use of "boy" to refer to an adult African-American man.

On the other hand, there's also such a thing as being too sensitive to historical baggage. If an entire area of inquiry is closed off just because it upsets some people, then sensitivity has gone too far. I wouldn't be moved by fundies who objected to research about Europa because it contravened their interpretation of the Bible. I have a similar reaction to people who say or imply that we have to put our fingers in our ears at any mention of race-based differences.

[ismnotwasm]

150. It's a hit and run OP

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Poorly phrased for sensitivity, not condusive for proper discussion. I could quote Richard Pryor on "why" if you like--that's how open ended the wording is.

[Jim Lane]

151. Yes, it could have been phrased a little better.

And you could have spelled "conducive" correctly.

And I could have adhered to the traditional rule about not starting a sentence with a conjunction (two violations and a third on the way).

But none of these points should be permitted to cloud our discussion of the substance.

[Hissyspit]

166. Sure they should. People point out any race-baiting OP if they want.

The clouding began with the OP subject line.

[ismnotwasm]

177. Dammit

I meant condusive, not conductive. Now I have an edit for no reason. Last time I listen to you on proper words

[pipi_k]

146. Thank you for addressing this

I was going to post much the same thing.

God forbid anyone should express curiosity here!!!!


Like curiosity is a bad thing. Interesting that some see it that way.

I grew up with that sort of attitude. Don't ask questions!!!

What a cruel way to squash someone's spirit.

I'm a curious person. Luckily, we have the internet now, and I can find the answers to a lot of my questions by doing a search, without ever having to deal with judgmental bullshit from people who seem to be not in the least curious about much of anything.


As for the OP itself.... I would think the best way to get a good answer to your question might be to ask the people involved.

I have two cousins (sisters) who are married to black men.

Then, I have a nephew (white) who just married a black woman this past December. Sort of a funny story about that....my nephew's fiancee's family are from Jamaica originally. Most of them now live in Florida, and the ones who don't made the trip to Orlando to attend the wedding. OTOH, the only family my nephew had down there is one sister and her hubby, my mom and her manfriend, and his parents and another sister and her hubby who traveled from Mass to attend the wedding. So the whole bride's side of the church was filled with dark-skinned guests, while the groom's side had, at the most, maybe ten white skinned guests. So my niece-in-law made my mom laugh when she said she felt so bad for my nephew that she was thinking of going out and grabbing a bunch of white people in off the street to put on his side of the church to even things out.




Oh, so anyway, in my family the ratio is 2:1 in favor of white women marrying black men as opposed to white men marrying black women.

Not sure what it means, but it's all cool.

[Blue_Tires]

155. I'm just saying

Last edited Tue Feb 17, 2015, 06:15 PM - Edit history (2)

If the OP is truly curious, then DU isn't the place to ask, since misinformation and stereotypes inevitably follow (since there are precious few black folks on this site anymore) -- There is a wealth of academic sociological/psychological research into the topic, which is quite easy to find...

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/guess_whos_been_coming_to_dinner_trends_in_interracial_marriage_over_the_20th_century.pdf

http://thegrio.com/2013/11/06/interracial-dating-marriage-love-black-men-women-white-native-american/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/it-s-man-s-and-woman-s-world/201407/understanding-interracial-relationships

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/fashion/more-asian-americans-marrying-within-their-race.html?pagewanted=all

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ppm/3/1/2/

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=24255#.VOOw6PnF_Ec

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21174875

http://www.chicagotalks.org/2014/11/interracial-dating-trend-fetish-or-love/

http://madamenoire.com/211759/when-keeping-it-swirl-goes-wrong-why-are-black-people-obsessed-with-interracial-dating/

Or gods forbid the OP get off his duff and *talk* to some interracial couples IRL.....

[Number23]

160. "If the OP is truly curious, then DU isn't the place to ask"

And THAT'S the ever so simple truth of the matter.

[Jim Lane]

167. Thanks for the citations

Your links have some information but no slam dunk.

First, you say that this research “is quite easy to find...” I’m glad it was easy for you and that you took the trouble to post, but I couldn’t have found that stuff so readily. Don’t assume we can all do what you did!

This illustrates one reason to post on DU: Different people know different things. As a lawyer, I sometimes see questions where the answer is easy for me to find because I’m used to doing legal research. I generally contribute what I know without berating the questioner. My skill at locating academic research is much lower, however.

As for these links, some of them seem to be about interracial dating and marriage in general. They answer other questions but not the OP’s question. For example, your first link gives data consistent with the OP’s question:

For the first 100 years of the time series, the share of white male–black female marriages remained constant at 0.1 percent, trended up from 1980 and 2000, and peaked in the latter years at 0.2 percent. White female–black male unions increased from .10 percent in 1970 to .45 percent in 2000.

In just skimming the paper, though (I didn’t read all 35 pages), I didn’t notice anything that attempted to explain this gender difference.

The PsycNET abstract does have a useful hint (I didn’t pay to read the whole paper):

Overall, Blacks, especially Black men, proved more open to cross-race dating than did Whites.

If black men are more open than white men and black women are more open than white women, but the former difference is greater than the latter, then the result would be that black male - white female unions would be more common than white male - black female unions. This might be part of the answer to the OP’s question. Of course, that passing reference in the abstract doesn’t explain the cause of this gender difference among blacks.

I disagree with your concluding suggestion. Talking to some mixed-race couples is unlikely to answer the question. Several members of mixed-race couples have taken the trouble to respond here, and their posts have been interesting and informative. Nevertheless, I don’t think their individual experiences enable us to draw a conclusion about the overall tendency -- specifically, about why there's a gender difference.

[Blue_Tires]

175. I just pulled the first links I could find...

I wasn't trying to make a statement, or say that the answer to the OP's questions would definitely be found in them...

Just that there is an immense archive of *real*, honest-to-god peer-reviewed scientific research that the OP would learn more from than a bunch of anonymous posters on a message board...It is a very complex subject requiring more than random, simple answers (more than a few of which in this thread are borderline offensive)...

[pipi_k]

173. So how come

nobody ever tells anyone coming here looking for semi-legal or semi-medical advice to get up off their duffs and go looking for it online?

Just as much bad information floats around here on DU regarding the law and medicine as there is regarding things like interracial marriage/relationships.


In fact, in many cases, people here end up doing the work for someone else by posting links to this or that legal or medical site.

There seems to be a double standard here regarding what sort of curiosity people are allowed to have.

[Blue_Tires]

174. I thought Skinner put a permanent end to the "medical advice" threads ages ago?

And I don't have a legal background, so I've never ventured into the legal advice threads...But I would hope that someone in those threads suggest that the OP consult an expert professional...

[Jim Lane]

181. Personal advice is different from general expertise

If someone posts something about a particular bill or the latest grand jury outrage or whatever, I as a legal professional will sometimes chime in with an explanation or correction or whatever. That's a far cry from saying, "The contract you signed, as described in your post, is enforceable."

In this instance, the OP was asking for general information concerning a statistic about society at large. The OP was not seeking personal advice that would more appropriately be rendered by a qualified professional.

[pipi_k]

189. I'm going to disagree that

this is any different from someone looking for information on a legal issue whereby people trip over themselves trying to help the person by posting links.

And if it is any different, the replies should not be. Someone asks a question, and you have the inevitable individuals who can't help but make some shitty snotty comment, almost (but not quite) implying that the person asking the question is a troll. Because they either don't like, or are not comfortable with, the question(s) being asked.

People yell "Free Speech!!!" but it's really only for speech they want to hear.

[pipi_k]

188. People still manage

to sneak in amateur advice.

Like someone going through an eviction, perhaps. All sorts of advice on what to do, and if it's not outright advice, it's links to sites that give advice.

My point here is that people jump out of the woodwork to tell someone curious about interracial marriage to "get up off their duff" to google information but when the topic is something else, they'll post link upon link upon link for the poor unfortunate person who just doesn't have a clue how to do it him/her self.

[Logical]

164. The OP posted and RAN! Get it? nt

[ismnotwasm]

131. Maybe you're looking at it wrong

Perhaps it's white women whose are choosing to marry black men.

[nomorenomore08]

184. +1

[Yorktown]

132. One probable hypothesis: status symbol

Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said, couldn't read all.

Whites have ruled the planet for two centuries.

Hence a residual aura of superiority in the minds of many (whites and non-whites)

So, for some blacks, marrying a white girl = trophy wife

(partly true in the US, extremely true in Africa)

While the other way around is harder (marrying 'upwards')


The views above are not my own, but an analysis of the probable reality of perceptions.

(my couple is mixed)

[Blue_Tires]

141. ^^^^^^^^^^^^Stereotype alert

[Number23]

162. This is by no means the only stereotype in this thread, completely with castigations of "Americans"

daring to discuss the complex cultural and economic issues of race in complex cultural and economic terms. Oh, if only we were able to put race in a vacuum and discuss it alone and away from the very things that make it such an incredibly complex, painful and complicated issue. Perhaps then it would cease to be the lightning rod and 8 million pound gorilla that it's been in American culture for the last FOUR HUNDRED years!!1!one

Jesus Christ, almighty....

[Blue_Tires]

142. And what in fuck's name does it matter to you?

What's your personal interest in all this?

[snooper2]

149. it is always good to pay attention

[Jamaal510]

178. Driver was on some Peter Griffin business right there. eom

[NM_Birder]

153. I'm white,.... and prefer brunette women to Blond.

But what does that have to do with anything ?


What does my personal preference tell you about me as a statistical member of society,... am I bigoted against blond women ? ? It sounds kind of like you are soft stepping around asking why isn't it more statistically even for black men/white women, and white men /black women relationships. Not everything can be cataloged into neat, explainable compartments that make everything an even statistical game.

Turn your question back in on itself and see how ridiculous it is. Why aren't there more gay people as a percentage of the population ? in an effort to question diversity, it starts to come off as a little sexist/racist.

[Logical]

163. Nice hit and run away post! nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

168. I had a long-term relationship with a black woman

And her mother and female friends were relentlessly cruel to her about it. The things that were said to her with me standing right there were pretty brutal. I can't even imagine what was said privately. Her father and brother seemed completely okay with it though.

There is definitely a double-standard in play.

[cyberswede]

182. To stick it to white guys, of course.

[stone space]

191. Not sure. White man married to a Black woman here.

I can say that after my wife and I first got married, for several years there was another Black Woman/White Man couple who lived in the house just across the street from us, whatever one might want to make of that.

It might depend on where you live, I suppose.

[Beringia]

205. My own experience

I think woman/man pair ups is very strong in our makeup. It is easier for the man to be forward. When I have worked at a predominantly black employee hospital, the black males were much nicer and accepting and the black women were very hard on me.

[NOLALady]

206. Good Question.

As a genealogist, I've wondered why so many black Americans have African Maternal Haplogroups and white Paternal haplogroups.

For the life of me, I can't figure that out! I have to wonder what that says about how people think or feel about race and sex and the interaction between them.