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Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 10:35 PM Mar 2015

61 years ago today: Those Who Witnessed Castle Bravo Looked Into Armageddon

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/those-who-witnessed-castle-bravo-looked-into-armageddon-fa7610578413

Zero hour for Bravo was at 6:45 a.m. local time on March 1. From the moment the device detonated, many of the observers knew something had gone spectacularly wrong.

The flash from the nuclear explosion was overwhelming, even by the standards of nuclear explosions. Men saw their bones appear as shadows through their living flesh. Streams of blinding light shone through the smallest cracks and pinholes in secured doors and hatches.

Bravo’s thermal radiation was far more intense than expected. More than 30 miles away from Ground Zero on Bikini Atoll, sailors on board Navy ships said the heat was like having a blowtorch applied to their bodies.

The shock wave destroyed buildings supposedly outside of the calculated damage zone. It nearly knocked observation aircraft out of the sky, and caused some men inadvertently trapped in a forward observation bunker to wonder if the explosion ripped their concrete and steel shelter from its foundations and flung it into the sea.





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61 years ago today: Those Who Witnessed Castle Bravo Looked Into Armageddon (Original Post) Fumesucker Mar 2015 OP
Richard Rhodes' book describes this in vivid detail. longship Mar 2015 #1
"Command And Control" by Eric Schlosser - reading it now hatrack Mar 2015 #4
I read David Halberstam's book "The Fifties" not too long ago.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #5
Teller - "The Richard Nixon of American science" hatrack Mar 2015 #6
Rhodes books are both history and science. longship Mar 2015 #9
Yeah, Teller didn't come across well in Halberstam's book either.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #10
Well, I grew up in the fifties. longship Mar 2015 #13
Not many people have any idea where the term Peanut Gallery came from.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #14
Good one, FS. longship Mar 2015 #15
You made me LOL with Phineas... Fumesucker Mar 2015 #21
Wait, what? Captain Kangaroo was Clarabell? hatrack Mar 2015 #32
Anyone remember, "Plunk your magic twanger, Froggy!" The Blue Flower Mar 2015 #16
And before Andy, there was Smilin' Ed. longship Mar 2015 #20
I was in Michigan at the time.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #28
I wish I had a pencil thin mustache.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #22
For a great book about Teller Bugenhagen Mar 2015 #19
Dark heavy undercurrents indeed Hekate Mar 2015 #30
Interesting story and interesting web site. pa28 Mar 2015 #2
How does "Oops!" read when plotted on a blackboard as an equation, one wonders . . . hatrack Mar 2015 #3
The equations are pretty damned good. longship Mar 2015 #7
K&R! TeamPooka Mar 2015 #8
Pure insanity. nt Mnemosyne Mar 2015 #11
Some pics. longship Mar 2015 #12
Bravo was a very memorable part of "Trinity and Beyond" narrated by William Shatner.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #17
Holy crap. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #26
The crater is still there on Google Earth.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #27
Rec for remembrance WheelWalker Mar 2015 #18
Here is a poem written by an Atomic Veteran . . FairWinds Mar 2015 #23
Thank you... Fumesucker Mar 2015 #24
Thank you Hekate Mar 2015 #29
And boredom did indeed cease from that moment.(NT) The Wizard Mar 2015 #25
And, at over 3 times the size, the Tsar Bomba from the Soviet Union, 1961 muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #31
For those wondering at the science for why it was double the expected size... jeff47 Mar 2015 #33
Been thinking about "the day after" lately phantom power Mar 2015 #34
Gojira! yuiyoshida Mar 2015 #35
History shows again and again.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #37
Home of Sponge Bob. JEB Mar 2015 #36

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. Richard Rhodes' book describes this in vivid detail.
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:28 PM
Mar 2015
Richard Rhodes wrote two books about nuclear weapons.

The first, The Making of the Atomic Bomb is a great telling of history focused on the A-bomb and on World War II development. It won the Pulitzer Prize. Well deserved.

His sequel book, Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb is not as good of a narrative as is his previous book, but it has no less impact.

One of the important stories in the book is of the Castle Bravo test, which ran away by three times over expectations -- instead of 5 Megatons, it was 15 Megatons -- and exposed many to huge radiation exposure, including Japanese fishermen who happened to be fishing downwind, and many observers who were assumed were safe.

The physicists missed an important cross section, atoms that would fuse given enough energy, thus adding to the weapon's calculated energy release. They missed by a factor of three. And people died.

Rhodes's books are awesome. Highly recommended.

R&K

hatrack

(59,585 posts)
4. "Command And Control" by Eric Schlosser - reading it now
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:34 PM
Mar 2015

Fascinating. A catalog of fuckups major and minor and a recitation of just how lucky we've been so far.

Couldn't agree more re. Rhodes' books - they're both fantastic, and the first is probably the best book on the history of science I've ever read.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
5. I read David Halberstam's book "The Fifties" not too long ago..
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:43 PM
Mar 2015
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fifties-David-Halberstam/dp/0449909336

It had a chapter on the political battles surrounding the thermonuclear bomb, Teller was something of a whack job IMO...

I'll see if my library has Rhodes' books or can order them for me, thanks, I'm always interested in stuff like that.

longship

(40,416 posts)
9. Rhodes books are both history and science.
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:59 PM
Mar 2015

The first one is fucking wonderful, The Making of the Atomic Bomb. The second, Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb is a darker and a much more tangled narrative, with much more politics. Both have lots of science. And as to the latter narrative, Teller was a fucking jerk. His early designed H-bombs apparently did not work. But he self-promoted himself as the father of the H-bomb, possibly and mainly because he never met a nuclear bomb he did not love.

Rhodes books are essential history, especially the first.

Regards.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
10. Yeah, Teller didn't come across well in Halberstam's book either..
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:11 AM
Mar 2015

I picked it up at a thrift store because I remembered seeing Halberstam on TV quite a bit, I think on the News Hour or perhaps Sabbath gasbag shows and he always seemed level headed and in command of the facts.

There were a lot of things going on in the fifties that still resonate today, we tend to think of it as kind of a boring and staid time but there were some heavy undercurrents in American culture then.

longship

(40,416 posts)
13. Well, I grew up in the fifties.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:29 AM
Mar 2015

And born in the 40's.

I remember Murrow and Joe McCarthy. And Walter Cronkite hosting The Twentieth Century. And Howdy Doody. And Sputnik. I was a teen in 1961 when JFK took office. I delivered the Detroit News on my bicycle when JFK was assassinated.

History is important, as George Satanyana once said.
And good books are essential.

Best regards.

longship

(40,416 posts)
15. Good one, FS.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:47 AM
Mar 2015

Let alone Clarabell (AKA Bob Keeshan, AKA Captain Kangaroo).


And if folks don't know that one, I know not to quiz them on Phineas T. Bluster.


(Hmmm! Kinda looks like...
http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Hc5QSJz8P8Mejc.ZFEqS6Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MDc7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/
Naw!!)

Maybe more like Dilly Dally.




As always, my friend.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
21. You made me LOL with Phineas...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 01:06 AM
Mar 2015

Definitely a closer match than Dilly Dally..

Haven't thought about those two in more than fifty years..

longship

(40,416 posts)
20. And before Andy, there was Smilin' Ed.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 01:06 AM
Mar 2015
Smilin' Ed McConnell

They showed jungle adventures, like Ramar of the Jungle, although that might have been Andy's Gang, not Smilin' Ed. My memory fades of that time. However, I do remember Froggy plunking his magic twanger and convincing Smilin' Ed to cut off the sleeves of his shirt, to an audience full of kids delight. Plus, there was Buster Brown shoes, with his dog Tige.

A very long time ago.

Thankfully Froggie had a revival with the Ghoul, although not to his advantage:

Pshaw! The 70's late night local horror film programs.
I'm sorry, Parma, OH.

Hi-ya, hi-ya, hi-ya, kiddies!
 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
28. I was in Michigan at the time....
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 03:17 AM
Mar 2015

Ya know, that's one thing I miss is the late night Saturday horror movie hosts.

I'll chalk it up to Bush and all the "super-Christy" types trying to get us on our knees.

Bugenhagen

(151 posts)
19. For a great book about Teller
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:59 AM
Mar 2015

check out The Firecracker Boys by Dan O'Neil

http://www.amazon.com/The-Firecracker-Boys-Environmental-Movement/dp/B00EFCW1GA

It describes the infamous Project Chariot, Teller's plan to create a deep water harbor in northern Alaska using nuclear bombs, and the heroic people to stopped him. It is a great read.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
2. Interesting story and interesting web site.
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:31 PM
Mar 2015

I'll have to spend some quality time reading through in detail. Highly recommended.

longship

(40,416 posts)
7. The equations are pretty damned good.
Sun Mar 1, 2015, 11:45 PM
Mar 2015

It's when mixed with experimental stuff where things get tangled.

But since both inform the other, uncertainties in either can multiply. That's why experiments are done, to observe the limits.

The Castle Bravo test went well beyond projected limits, by a factor of three. It was not a good test. And the equations missed some rather important fusion cross-sections. The result is, as Richard Rhodes might have said, Castle Bravo went off like gangbusters. And it did. And people died.

longship

(40,416 posts)
12. Some pics.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:15 AM
Mar 2015

The Castle Bravo device:

They called it the shrimp.

Because this was the first H-bomb, the Mike device, more than a bit bigger:


And here was the Mike device going off:


But here was the shrimp, Castle Bravo, the largest bomb ever tested by the USA, at 7.5 times more powerful than Mike. BTW, it scared the shit out of everybody who witnessed it, and killed more than a few of them who wandered into the area.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
23. Here is a poem written by an Atomic Veteran . .
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 01:21 AM
Mar 2015

who sent it to the Vets For Peace Golden Rule Project where I am a volunteer.
Mr. Osborn is now is his 80's and lives in Washington State.
Thousands of Atomic Vets and Marshall Islanders were
experimented upon with the nuclear tests. They were quite deliberately
moved in close to the blasts (or not evacuated adequately) to see what would happen to them.
See also the "too scary for Public TV" documentary "Nuclear Savage."


I Have Seen the Dragon

I have seen the Dragon
Through clenched lids and arms pressed tight.
I have felt its hot breath on my back
And listened to the rumble of its voice.

I have looked upon its breath,
Glowing Amethyst, red and purple,
Climbing toward the stratosphere
To deposit its venom downwind.

I have waited in fear as my gums began to bleed
And my hair came out in clumps.
I breathed a prayer of thanks
As I began to heal.

After fifty years, our ranks are thin,
We who have seen the Dragon and survived.
Those who have died or are sickened still,
Their numbers are legion.

All we can hope for, work for, pray for,
Is that no madman will ever be allowed
To unleash the Dragon again.
For its legacy to all is death, disease and decay.

© Stephen M. Osborn
2 November 2006

Hekate

(90,681 posts)
29. Thank you
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 04:57 AM
Mar 2015

and thank you for the work you do with the VFP. during the BushCheney years I volunteered with Chapter 54, who developed and still present Arlington West.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,315 posts)
31. And, at over 3 times the size, the Tsar Bomba from the Soviet Union, 1961
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 05:53 AM
Mar 2015


Dropped from a plane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

It could have been 100 MT, but that would have destroyed the plane delivering it and caused too much fallout, so they used some lead in place of U-238 (as it was, "when detonation occurred, the Tu-95V fell one kilometre from its previous altitude due to the shock wave of the bomb&quot .

Also notable for an "oops, that did more than we expected" moment - Starfish Prime, detonated 250 miles up.

Starfish Prime caused an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) which was far larger than expected, so much larger that it drove much of the instrumentation off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands.[5]
...
While some of the energetic beta particles followed the Earth's magnetic field and illuminated the sky, other high-energy electrons became trapped and formed radiation belts around the earth. There was much uncertainty and debate[who?] about the composition, magnitude and potential adverse effects from this trapped radiation after the detonation. The weaponeers became quite worried when three satellites in low earth orbit were disabled. These man-made radiation belts eventually crippled one-third of all satellites in low earth orbit. Seven satellites failed over the months following the test as radiation damaged their solar arrays or electronics, including the first commercial relay communication satellite, Telstar.[11][12][13] Detectors on Telstar, TRAAC, Injun, and Ariel 1 were used to measure distribution of the radiation produced by the tests.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime


A nuclear explosion, as seen from a city in the country that set the damn thing off.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
33. For those wondering at the science for why it was double the expected size...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:17 PM
Mar 2015

Thermonuclear weapons work by setting off a fission nuclear bomb next to some lithium. A fission bomb is like the ones we dropped on Japan. The neutrons and photons spewing out of the fission reactions smack into the lithium, and turn it into tritium, a kind of hydrogen. The heat and pressure from the fission bomb causes this tritium to fuse into helium, and you now get a fusion nuclear weapon. And a much, much bigger explosion. (It's much easier to fuse tritium than "vanilla" hydrogen)

Scientists thought only Lithium-6 would undergo this reaction. They believed Lithium-7, the far more common isotope, could withstand the bombardment. So they worked for a very long time to enrich the Li-6 in the Castle Bravo device to be about 50% Li-6 and 50% Li-7.

Turns out Li-7 couldn't withstand the bombardment. So they got twice as much tritium, which caused twice as much fusion, and an explosion twice the expected size.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
34. Been thinking about "the day after" lately
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:37 PM
Mar 2015

Nobody talks much about nukes these days. Not like in the 70s and 80s. People need to remember we still have these things, and what they can do.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
35. Gojira!
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 12:45 PM
Mar 2015
Bravo’s fallout even inspired the creation of a science fiction screen legend Godzilla. In the 1954 Japanese movie of the same name, atomic testing resurrects the “King of Monsters”—a symbol for the new terror felt in the only nation ever attacked with nuclear weapons.



cool!
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