Do you ever notice that often white folks who are most skeptical of minority accounts of racism

[CreekDog]

Are often very willing to assert the way the person giving the account should feel or react to the situation?

(disclaimer: I am white)

But I often talk to other white folks and this does not apply to all white folks, but I have seen and heard, time and time again, white Americans, people, who statistically have less experience as the victims of racial discrimination or racial prejudice than any other group in the USA, act as the arbiters of what is "not racism".

The point I'm making is a subtlety of the whole race/prejudice issue, but it's not only that many white folks doubt accounts of racism or prejudice against minorities, even though there is not only a history of legally enforced racism in this country but evidence that substantial racism continues, but despite that, some of these folks also often seem to think that they can judge better than others, whether the racism occurred at all.

I often ask people here to consider their own level of expertise on a subject in comparison to the person they are arguing against. If they are not expert or don't have any special knowledge of the subject and they are arguing against something that is well established as a pattern in the country, then they should not consider themselves the final arbiter on that topic without substantial references, expertise or unique background on that individual instance.

Because let's face it, arguing that prejudice didn't occur or is rare against minorities is almost like arguing that climate change isn't occurring. And arguing that the dominant form of this isn't white as perpetrators in this country against minorities is like arguing that climate change is not substantially caused by humans.

Fellow white folks, when you hear stories of racism or discrimination, are you assuming that you know better than minorities about the experience of racism, felt as a minority?

I tend to believe many of these accounts or at least entertain that they could likely be true. Why? Because of history and because I hear racial comments and prejudices all the time, even in my fairly blue, fairly liberal area. And also because I don't consider myself more expert disproving racism than people who tend to be victims of it in this country.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. Brace yourself for ...

the inevitable story of how someone's Irish great-grands suffered discrimination, too.

[CreekDog]

5. And I don't doubt that happened too, but I find it infuriating that...

people who can repeat stories of the discrimination against white folks in this country (namely against certain ethnic groups of white people, like the Irish, the Italians, etc.) when that was common, decades and even a century ago...

that while they can believe those stories, second hand, without proof and other witnesses...many of these same people can't believe an account of an African American's experience of prejudice or racism.

I mean, if we look objectively at the history of this country, if you're going to accept the story of discrimination against whites, but not stories of discrimination against blacks --then isn't that biased? Because there is much more evidence that discrimination against minorities occurs and has occurred, in far greater instances, than against whites.

So if someone is willing to believe the stories about white folks, but doubts the ones from black folks, then that's biased, and it's racial bias against the accounts of racial minorities, because the evidence on balance shows that if you're going to doubt an account of racism, you don't doubt the story of an African American and accept the story of a White American.

smh.

[Gormy Cuss]

47. ^^This^^

and I'll add that if there are stories of your white ancestors being discriminated against, that does not give you the prerogative to tell others who have experienced discrimination how they should react to it or worse yet how soon they should get over it.

[CreekDog]

49. ^^That^^

[trumad]

83. just served on a jury for your stupid post

Bye bye.

[Gormy Cuss]

119. Aw crap, I missed it.

What was the gist of it? Leprechaun dust?

[trumad]

121. Racist troll shit

[Katashi_itto]

86. Bye Bye! I served too

[hobbit709]

88. Make it juror #3 and ciao.

[2naSalit]

58. Time plays a role in this too.

How long ago was it that some white folks were suffering such discrimination as opposed to what persons of color experience today?

Seems most discrimination of white Euro-Americans and others ended some time ago, not so for persons of color. In fact it appears to be getting worse of late because the bigots' heads are exploding over the fact that a vast majority of citizens elected a dark-skinned President... TWICE. And the bigots aim to show we the people that we need to be punished for it and they are doing their damnedest to make that happen.

Just look at the 47-2 centers. (As in giving their two cents inappropriately to... the world it would appear.)

[bravenak]

82. You are a liar.

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. I miss ALL the fun! Perhaps, I'm blessed. n/t

[bravenak]

102. I was up late and decided to bite on his line.

It was another victim of black racism.

[Oktober]

70. Who needs to go back several generations?

That's happening now...

[1StrongBlackMan]

95. Yes it is ...

and, in case you hadn't noticed, some have it happening now ... today ... here ... in the US.

[Oktober]

97. So... You agree with me...

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. I suspect we are talking about two different things ...

I'm talking about racial discrimination against African-Americans and other PoC. I suspect you are referencing something else.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. TBH.

[CreekDog]

6. .

I hope that one stays away.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Can a moth stay away from a flame? n/t

[CreekDog]

10. Are we talking about moths?

Or perhaps, some other people who like fires?

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. LOL. n/t

[freshwest]

40. Nah, just think of those verses Maya Angelou wrote. They can't resist the mystery!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. Oh stop it, you SJW you. nt

[JonLP24]

36. I don't think I have any idea what this thread is really about

but carry on.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

41. I think it's about keeping the fringe extreme crazy elements

from driving away the moderate reasonable level-headed average democrat.

[JonLP24]

50. Now that is a straight forward explanation

who is driving away who to where and how does this thread play into that? Anyways, whoops walked into something I wasn't supposed to, I'll see myself out.

[salin]

107. Sensing that I have missed something

TBH SWJ ???

[CreekDog]

128. New one for me too, "SJW" is "Social Justice Warrior"

at least that's the term used by people who think that's somehow a bad thing.

[salin]

130. thanks...

it only seems like a bad thing to those with very narrow agendas.

Btw, I think your OP is spot on.

[CreekDog]

133. thanks

[NutmegYankee]

3. The privileged will seek to preserve their privilege.

And that privilege makes them think they are entitled to be the arbiters of what is racism.

[bravenak]

4. Yes. Some don't believe in 'real' white privilege.

It's frustrating, tbh.

[betsuni]

11. In their world the quotes go on the other word.

"White."

[bravenak]

22. Lol!

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. And I don't care what your academics say ...

I have gleaned much more in my 20-something years on this earth (that is not warming, BTW).

[bravenak]

21. And of course it's just far left social justice warriors who talk about white privilege.

Them and the radfems of course.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Thank the universe ...

I'm a sex-positive feminist!

[bravenak]

29. Oh gawd!

[freshwest]

42. Sez Mrs.1StrongBlackMan, and no other wimmenz!

Someone stop me before I get out of control here... Please...

[bravenak]

43. This is fun.

My hubby say it too. He's positive he wants sex.

[freshwest]

52. I was also blessed by the hubby!

[freshwest]

38. If only I was...

Buried two hubbies. No, I didn't kill em!

Don't wanna learn another one. But I'm not immune to having a crush:



Safer from a distance, you know.

[freshwest]

34. *I saw what you did there*

[bravenak]

37. ~

[betsuni]

25. And a Person of Colors (not that I see color, to be completely honest) was mean to me once,

therefore reverse racism. It is I, who is really a nice fellow if you just got to know me, who is the victim here, how many times must I remind you people?

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. Yeah ...

all the non-SJW negroes that I get along with tell me I'm a really great guy ... TBH.

[Number23]

153. Is it the upwardly or downwardly mobile ones?

[trumad]

85. You're still here.

Tick tock

[CreekDog]

23. yes, such privilege can make those who are below average

feel average.

[bravenak]

24. Privilege of that magnitude comes with such a comforting blindness bubble.

Must be nice.

[freshwest]

51. Yup... So much of that going around...

http://www.timwise.org/2013/06/whiteness-nsa-spying-and-the-irony-of-racial-privilege/#more-2984

[sheshe2]

53. TBH...

I think you are on to something here, bravenak.

[bravenak]

57. IMHO, WP is obvious and not the fault of the posessor.

But some people choose to fight guilty feelings instead of being helpful, TBH.

[bravenak]

84. What the fuck are you talking about?

You've got to be a dumb fuck.

[msanthrope]

89. Some of them bemoan that their Ivy League education hasn't gotten

them as far as it should in life.....oh, and that President Obama should vicariously injure the genitals of people he disagrees with as a show of manhood.

[bravenak]

90. And how some woman stole the job they just know should be theirs.

They are truly oppressed.

[msanthrope]

91. Missed that.....pm me? That would explain quite a bit. nt

[bravenak]

93. I wish I could remember which thread that was from.

It was a while back though. I bet the person who said it does it again soon. It comes up over and over.

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. Yep ...

complete with a quote from Martin Luther King ... that if he understood the full context of the quote, he probably wouldn't use it, as it doesn't mean what he (and conservatives, BTW) use(s) it to represent.

[bravenak]

106. That King quoting makes me pull out my old trust Malcolm quote about liberals.

If I have to be pissed off, they should too. I don't think that one ever bothered to read the whole quote. Only the parts he likes to try to use against us. Weird.

[1StrongBlackMan]

103. But it was a BLACK woman ...

and then, there was the time a Black man got the job they were due.

[bravenak]

104. Ahh, you remember too!

That was a real humdinger. I felt a total lack of sympathy after he called her stupid and unqualified.

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. Yeah ...

BTW ... I wonder what would give someone the idea that "taking a year off to live in the woods" (and NOT writing an Emerson caliber work) would NOT have an adverse affect on one's career?

[bravenak]

110. That was some stupid shit.

I just wanted to scream,"it's YOU not THEM!!" Maybe a year in the woods was the best thing for everybody at the time. I'd help him pack.

[boston bean]

159. One in particular doesn't believe it really exists, but

is an expert in using it.

[bravenak]

166. I think he got professional training.

The Rad Fems made him like that. Them and the SJWs.

[cyberswede]

9. Just "average" ones. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. Just your typical Joe Blow........ nt

[geek tragedy]

13. You should have Skipped the Intro and launched

right to your thesis.

[cyberswede]

17. I like Cjeekdgg. nt

[freshwest]

54. God, that was the most hilarious spoof thread in DU3's history, to me, anyway. Perfect TEOTWAWKI!

It was a perfect late night before the Mayan Apocalypse. Most elaborate joke ever, the whole thing. It was all for the lulz.

[LeftyMom]

16. TBH, I've had about enough of you. You're an SJW and a doomer and you probably have a tumblr

and it's a privilege (not that I believe in privilege) to put you on ignore.

But first I'm going to PM everybody on this thread and tell them that I'm really not a bad guy. Entirely average, in fact.

Stop posting Futurama gifs at me.

[XemaSab]

18. Do some people think you're a racist, sexist, climate change denying jackass too?

That happens to me a lot, and I just don't get it.

Talk to anyone and they'll tell you I'm a great guy and the SJWs, radfems, and doomers just have it out for me for no reason anyone can understand. It's very sad, really.

[LeftyMom]

27. Did I tell you one of those evil black twitter radfems was mean to me once?

It was terrible. I submissively urinate like a scared puppy just thinking about her SJW wrath.

TBH it made me feel kind of tingly and weird. You know. There.

I crave her attention and I fear it.

[betsuni]

30. Fifty Shades of White

[1StrongBlackMan]

112. LOL ...

We have a winner

[Starry Messenger]

122. OMG.

I'm crying with laughter and I'm not halfway down the thread yet.

[Bobbie Jo]

132. !!!

You are awesome!

[Number23]

155. More like Fifty Shades of Cray Cray

I think there's alot of stuff going on in this thread. And I'm loving it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. IMHO and to be frank that is the best reply I've read all day. nt

[U4ikLefty]

33. Would that be a literal privilege to put them on ignore?

Why would you segregate them like that?

[CreekDog]

35. .

[Skittles]

46. you want I should kick some doomer, tumbler-accounting, Futurama-gifing average SJW ass, LeftyMom?

LEMME AT HIM!!!

[KMOD]

20. Most people, in general, are stubborn.

They have thoughts and views, and will look for ways to reinforce them.

It usually takes someone to get smacked with real life experience in order to reconsider.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. It can be summed up in one word...

...I bet the majority of us know that word.

[JonLP24]

32. I notice or notice it moreso from racists themselves

the say & act & behave in ways that suggest they don't know they realize they're racist or there are cops, employers, etc that think just like they do which would naturally prove the discrimination they're denying.

[U4ikLefty]

39. Who are we talking about? Gimme a hint...is thier favorite scientist bill NYE?

Do they smoke weed because it's a Natural High?

[bravenak]

44. It's just your Average sort of guy.

And folks whose names rhyme with cry.
People who deny deny.
Relics of a time long gone by.

[U4ikLefty]

45. nice.

[bravenak]

48. Aww thanks!

I try my best.

[Nye Bevan]

55. Great rhythm! Love it!

[bravenak]

56. Hey!!!!

Wazzup!!!
I like poetry.

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. But that one runs a close ...

Never-mind what 21st century social scientists say, my dictionary says and I think ... second.

[bravenak]

148. He has been told he is very wise for his age.

He was serious when he said that.

[TDale313]

59. Thank you for this thread!

And thanks for some of the replies from everyone that made me smile when I had been reading a certain other thread where the op was arguing that a certain case was absolutely, positively not at all about racism and don't you dare say it was!!!!! And just

To my fellow white people: if you feel the need to explain to someone who isn't white what racism "really" is, that they're wrong, cause you clearly understand it better than they do... Please stop. Take a breath, back away from the keyboard, go lie down till the urge passes... Just stop. (Same with men mansplaining to women what sexism/misogyny is.)

[CreekDog]

60. Uh, I just saw that thread for the first time, I had no idea

Oops.

[Wella]

61. Please deal with me directly

Have some guts.

[CreekDog]

62. Have some accuracy, as the post above explains, I didn't even know your thread existed

until the poster above told me.

oh, and by the way, don't give me orders.

if someone DOES post something in reference to your thread without posting in your thread.

deal with it.

[Wella]

65. I am being accurate. You are referring to my thread

And there is no need to lose your cool over this.

[CreekDog]

67. This thread was written without knowledge of your thread

But I will say this, if this thread were written to make fun of your thread, you can bet that I would not be too ashamed to admit it.

Your thread is not a good thread.

And you know what?

You're so offended that people think that it's racism in that instance.

And you? Do you have any degree in studies about racism or prejudice? I'll bet you don't.

Have you published any scholarly articles on racism?

You're just a person who thinks that their opinion on whether racism happened or not is more accurate than all those people who have more experience feeling racism who are arguing with you in that thread.

Why? Because even without any special knowledge, you think your opinion is more sound than theirs.

It's not.

[1StrongBlackMan]

114. Chuck a rock. The dog that yelp, be the dog done got hit. n/t

[freshwest]

63. It's the foolishness of believing one can control everything.

As the one doing that feels the reins of control getting out of their hands, they go into a state of denial that those they think they rule aren't playing their game.

It's nor progressive, neither is it the stance of Democrats and the Democratic Party. It's the complete opposite. Whites should seek to embrace what POC have to say to learn more. That's whay a liberal and progressive does, they don't try to talk over POC.

[Wella]

64. Creek Dog, do you ever notice that people who make claims of racism don't always back them up?

You're assuming that the court in Sandy Springs sentenced the garbage man for his race or because of his race. But you have no proof of that and there is a stronger argument in another direction.

Why should anyone accept your feelings when there is evidence in the other direction?

[CreekDog]

66. I didn't write this post with that Sandy Springs garbageman in mind

But you know what? Now that you mention it, there has never EVER been a white garbageman who served 30 days prison time for picking up garbage too early in the morning.

You can bet on that

Oh, but we're being so hasty to call it racism.

RACISM? REALLY RACISM? Are you KIDDING me? Racism in the white suburbs of ATLANTA GEORGIA?

That's some kinda crazy talk.

Are you telling me it's racism? Right there near STONE MOUNTAIN?

How can you have RACISM IN FREAKING GEORGIA, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

There hasn't been racism there since slavery. 1865

I mean the Civil War. 1865

I mean since legal segregation 1964

I mean since de facto segregation (has that ended?)

I mean since the Supreme Court overturned the anti-miscegenation laws 1967

I mean since Governor Lestor Maddox 1971

I mean since segregated proms in Georgia, oh wait, when did that end? 2014?


Sounds like you should spend more time studying racism than lecturing people that it doesn't exist.

[bravenak]

69. I always back up my claims of racism.

It's very easy to do. I experience racism on a personal level so often I consider myself an expert at dealing with it.
Also, being a woman, I know more about sexism than most men, especially when it comes to identifying it.
You were wrong on your thread. So wrong I decided it was not even worth bothering to tell you how wrong.
I always marvel over how easy it is for some white people to tell black people what is and what is not racism. It blows my mind. It comes from a place of absolute privilege. What I see is this, " I a white person am much better at deciding what is racist and what is not, than you black people who deal with it every day.' It is absolutely mind blowing. Being that our entire court system, policing system, prison system and society is racist, it's not hard to see why people see that the only garbage man ever arrested just for doing his job is a black guy. Who works in a white beighborhood in the South. Cannot believe you even went there.

[bravenak]

81. Who is we?

The evidence lies in thexstatistics released by the doj. That problem is not only in ferguson. Nice you signed up just for this.

[freshwest]

98. The 'we' is always a reference to the mouse in their pants! Name Removed replied to me above.

Wondering what he said to my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026340065#post63

Maybe thinks he's more progressive than me?

[bravenak]

99. That one was mad that racism was being discussed.

He told me that the real racism was done by black people to whites.
I wondered what his DU name was.

[freshwest]

117. Oh, my. He needed a history lesson. Or to watch something other than Pox Noise! He'll get high-fived

at DI where banned DUers and go to cry about being oppressed!

And the classic ones, who always know more than POC about oppression:

You make a good point, as that poster may be still be here under another name.

Just sayin'

[1StrongBlackMan]

115. Perhaps the words of Momma 1SBM are appropriate here ...

"One can only understand what one can see themselves doing."

Perhaps ... Just maybe ... those telling Black folks what is, and is not, racist are speaking from what they have done that they knew was racist?

Not saying this is so ... just searching, in the dark, for an explanation.

[cui bono]

68. Same thing happens when men tell women they aren't being objectified.

Why must any white person or male - depending on the case - jump in to say something like racism or objectification of women doesn't exist when they aren't the one who would know if the other person feels that they are the target of racism/sexism. Why wouldn't they stop and think, hm... interesting that that person feels that, let me take a look at that because I never saw it that way before.

But in this white patriarchal society, whose landscape is changing, some people either feel threatened or are truly ignorant to the racism and sexism that is so prevalent.

I've said this before... here's an excerpt from a previous post of mine:

One last thing and then I have to go to bed. As a man, do you find it odd that you keep arguing against what so many women (and men) find degrading? Who are you to tell a woman that it's not degrading? Should white people tell blacks what is and isn't to be perceived as racist? And you also keep defining feminism. Should whites go argue with blacks and define racism to them? Should they go and name drop the most extreme person that most people don't agree with, with whatever motive they might have for doing so?

Why don't you allow for the fact that many women (and men) feel it is degrading to women and trust that women would know if it is or isn't? Why don't you try to be sensitive to that fact? The fact that you insist on arguing against the fact that women feel it is degrading shows that you disregard women and don't value their opinions and feelings. You are dismissing it away just because you don't want to believe it. The real issue is that most women do find it degrading and yet you want to convince them that it isn't. If you were at all concerned about women's issues you would try to understand why they think that. You appear to be more concerned that some woman is trying to take something away from you. It's not about a gender war, it's about understanding, respect and empathy, or at least sympathy.

I try to understand what it must be like to grow up black or gay in this country all the time. It's not up to me to define what is and isn't racist or homophobic, it's up to me to understand why blacks or gays feel something is racist or homophobic. I certainly don't go around trying to define it for them and tell them they are wrong to feel oppressed. If they tell me something is offensive to them or degrading to them or oppressive to them I try to understand why they feel that way, I don't go telling them they are wrong.

And that is the real crux of the situation here.

[Katashi_itto]

87. Are you the troll that keeps showing up?

[1StrongBlackMan]

116. Oh, they don't say it doesn't exist ...

they know better than take it that far, they know it exists ... they just can never seem to see it, except in it's most extreme forms ... and when all other conceivable explains have been exhausted.

[cui bono]

124. Actually, that's true. In fact, the post of mine I quoted was about a specific topic

and the person I was responding to had the attitude you describe and more. Felt that we were trying to take away one of his hobbies completely, when we were speaking only of the extreme form of it because how dare we decide what is or is not degrading to women and if we say some of one hobby is then that meant we were trying to stop all of it.

It would be as if he thought that if you didn't want whites to disallow blacks to eat at their restaurants that meant you wanted whites to just give their restaurants to blacks, or something... not really the best analogy, but still...

[romanic]

75. No offense to the OP

But why put up a disclaimer than you're white? I don't see black posters putting up disclaimers that they're black. :I

[CreekDog]

94. If I didn't, some posters who generally refuse to see racism against minorities

would be quick to call my post racism by minorities against white people.

oh yes, really. i have been here long enough to know.

[romanic]

96. Oh okay.

I just found it weird, that's all.

[freshwest]

118. Or, heaven forbid, they might label you as black! I've been branded as such before here at DU.

[NaturalHigh]

92. To answer your question...

No, I haven't noticed.

[Android3.14]

109. More click bait

Pitiful.

What's the take-away, here? What CreekDog is saying is that only black people, and especially not white people, are the only ones who can debate the issues of race in this country.

Go jump in the lake.

[BubbaFett]

111. yup

wholly asinine.

Agreed.

[Gormy Cuss]

120. Do you dream of electric sheep?

That's my takeaway from your post.

[CreekDog]

127. No, you're saying "jump in a lake" to me

all because you don't understand what I said.

[Android3.14]

129. Oh I think I understood just fine

I'm sure Catholics, Acadians, Irish, Polish, Basque, Romany and other "white" minorities also understood you all too well.

If a person is white, then the prejudice they think they have experienced as a result of their religion, nation of origin, financial position, sexual preference or any other demographic that might find itself as a fulcrum for prejudice not only disqualifies the white person from making contributions to the analysis of the extent and depth of a black person's experience of prejudice, but the white person should just shut up and accept as gospel whatever a black person identifies as racism.

I'm sorry, CreekDog, but consensus is a much better lever for tipping a community to change.

[BeanMusical]

134. Translation: You approve racism.

Understood.

[Android3.14]

143. I will give that the thought it deserves...

...moving on.

[BeanMusical]

145. So you can think?

Interesting, I didn't noticed.

[CreekDog]

150. Actually, you're spending more time writing about the issue

than you have thinking about the issue.

and that comes through loud and clear in your posts here and elsewhere on the topic.

if you want to say something useful and reliable about a topic, spend more time reading on the topic than writing on the topic.

[Android3.14]

156. Oh, we both know your OP has nothing to do with "useful and reliable"

It's a ridiculous premise, that white people "often" tell black people what is and isn't racist. Then you follow it up with some sort of immunization against criticism (disclaimer:I'm white, with the subtext being, therefore I can criticize white people)

Anyone with a lick of sense can see your OP fans the flames of unproductive discord for race relations in order to keep people separate using suspicion, marginalizing people based on race, and fomenting anger.

An OP beginning with "Do you ever notice that often white folks..." is a waste of time to evoke "useful and reliable" discussion unless we are talking about ways to lead into a stand-up comedy routine.

[CreekDog]

160. there's no discord in this thread, but for a few trolls

and a few regular attendees of the "that's not racist" club.

how many recommends did you get for your posts on racism?

none?

sounds like your opinion is out of touch with reality.

[Android3.14]

168. As if "recommends" justify anything

Like I said at the beginning, more clickbait.

[CreekDog]

173. So you're saying people are required to "recommend" the thread in order to read it?

And the point of mentioning the recommends is that there isn't discord.

Well, apart mostly from what you've brought to the thread.

[Android3.14]

176. Missed something there

Required? That's out of left field. People can do what they want.

My observation regarding "recommends" was that you seem more concerned about the number of "recs" your OP receives than the moral and ethical value of the content.

[CANDO]

169. You're a grandstander

After reading through this thread and getting a feel for what it was all about, I think I got it about right. Just another hate white people thread at a forum full of white people who already get it. Grow a pair and take this shit to Freepland where maybe you'll find some real back and forth with true racists. Otherwise, what is the point except grandstanding and preaching to the choir? Now go ahead and show your true stripes and call me a racist because I dared disagree with you, thereby fulfilling your reason for the thread to begin with...grandstanding.

[CreekDog]

174. So you think I'm supposed to post on a dare? To show that I'm some tough guy or something?

Who thinks like that?

How old are you? Are you still hung up on proving how tough you are? Are you so motivated by that idea that you think that's why everyone else does what they do?

You told me to "grow a pair".

How about you "grow up".

If it upsets you that threads are going on where mostly adults are talking about complicated subjects, nobody is forcing you to participate.

So you're free to go and participate in a thread where the OP has shown that they have a pair or whatever you meant by that.

Do you tell women to "grow a pair"?

[CANDO]

177. Hello? Grandstander?

This was just another in a long list of threads by you and others that are not reaching the appropriate white folks you seem to be trying to reach. You'll find them on conservative forums. The white people here support racial/gender/marriage equality, etc. To continue this long line of preaching to people who are already on the same side as you of aforementioned issues at some point becomes counterproductive.

So I used a figure of speech, a cliche. Whatever? Sue me. My age? Old enough to see grandstanding for what it is.

[kwassa]

142. Consensus is often wrong.

If a site is 95% white, and they agree among themselves what constitutes racism for black people through what makes sense for themselves, they can still be completely wrong. And often are, from what I've seen.

It is the limitation of not being able to have the same life experience.

[salin]

131. that's not what I read.

I read that it is narrow minded, when in the discussion, to deny/dismiss the experiences expressed by black people if you are white. That doesn't mean you can't partake in the discussion, you just can't dominate definitions through dismissal of other people's actual experiences with dismissive statements like "that's so 1950 - not 2015", or "that doesn't happen in America in 2015", or only racist events can be attributed to racism (such as a highly unusual arrest) unless the community it happens in has no black demographic within it. I mean you can do all of those things (and people do) - but it doesn't move the conversation anywhere - as it dismisses the reality that our neighbors of color experience.

But then, I wasn't reading to take offense.

[Android3.14]

144. "But then, I wasn't reading to take offense"

That's a reasonable criticism. On DU, it is far too easy for a person to find a reason to take offense.

With, however, the OP's snarky opening, "Do you ever notice that often white folks...", it is rather blatant that he or she was trying to shame white people into accepting the black experience as the only one useful for identifying prejudice, marginalizing any prejudice that a white person may have experienced, and attempting to label anyone who disagrees as a racist.

I found the OP unhelpful at best, and probably intentional in its provocation.

What you took from the OP certainly seems like a thoughtful response, but the OP intended something much less wholesome.

[salin]

172. I don't participate here, as much as I once did.

To a great extent that is because my professional life started taking more time (60+hrs), which meant my personal time was divided into smaller parts. When I was most active here, there were at first under 10k posters which grew to 50k posters.

As a smaller community than we have today, it was easier to distill personal posting style - from message. This is much harder to do as the on-line community has grown so large.

I also have spent years working with adolescents. Moody as heck. Have to, in the moment, discern message from delivery. Including working to not attribute motive (as I have learned assumed motive is not always correct when you listen to the message beyond the delivery - as teens are often capricious in their beliefs). But the core idea can be really significant.

I try to read for that, rather than reading defensively. It doesn't always work - but it for me, it works way better than gut level dismissiveness.

[romanic]

175. A snark fest

is what the OP seems to be going after from the majority of responses. It seems like we can't have a serious discussion on race without passive aggressive snarky or denial or a compitetion on whose more oppressed. Ain't nobody got time for this kindergarten shit.

[CreekDog]

178. Nope, wasn't going for that

The OP wasn't snark.

[mercuryblues]

123. So many

good responses here.

I can define and understand sexism and misogyny based on my experiences and what I have learned. But I can not define racism and bigotry based on my experiences. Only through what I have learned which is limited when you take away the experience. What I can do is relate and emphasize with a PoC's experiences.

The only people who I don't believe are the one's who say "they have never seen or experienced" either, so it does not exist. I mean. WTF world do you live in if you honestly believe that? If you don't believe it and say it, what does it say about you?

[Snow Leopard]

125. while

whites may be the dominant perpetrators as you note, that is only because of demographics imho. The implication that other races are not just as or possibly even more racist doesn't hold water with me.

That all said, if you only point is do I try and tell other races they didn't experience xy or z of racism...no unless I thought their example was completely ridiculous. (which can happen)

[tishaLA]

136. christ

[CreekDog]

139. No, I said that people who have experienced racism are more reliable reporters of it

And if someone who hasn't experienced it or has a very limited experience of it, then it's fair to discount their opinion on whether it's racism or not --UNLESS, they have some particular evidence, experience, background or expertise on the topic.

I mean if you have an incident that appears to be racist/racism against minorities, then a white person posting "I'm not convinced it's racism" is not persuasive, nor should it be. No more than someone saying, "well, there's lots of data on climate change, and I'm not scientist, but I just don't believe it". In the same way, neither is convincing.

[Snow Leopard]

179. fair enough Creekdog

cheers

[Euphoria]

126. To answer your question; Yes, I have noticed.

Happens a heck of a lot. By both those who say they are sympathetic to PoC as well as those who are not.

[BeanMusical]

135. Racism is alive and well in america

And most of the world too. Anyone being skeptic from the start about racism accounts are fucking racists themselves IMHO.

[azmom]

138. In total agreement. Those here on DU are either in deep

Denial or are just fucking with POC.

[Matrosov]

137. Reminds me of the men..

..who are the loudest to assert how women should feel about certain incidents of sexual harassment or sexual assault or who are the first do downplay sexism because 'men get discriminated against all the time.'

[azmom]

140. This wise latina appreciates you posting this.

You fucking tell the motherfuckers that something is insensitive and offensive to a POC and instead of taking our word for it they want to argue, with facts and logic, as to why they don't think it's offensive. They want a debate.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

141. But maybe experiencing something

confuses and complicates a person's opinion of it.
So the less experience you have of that thing
allows you to have a clearer and simpler understanding
of it.

[azmom]

146. Do you think minorities have a distorted view of racism?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

147. That's a trick question.

What do you mean by"think"?

In any case, I'm a proponent of
"Up with opinion uncluttered by actual experience!"

[CreekDog]

149. I think that's akin to saying that climate scientists have seen too much data on climate change

to remain objective about climate change.

no, i really don't think so.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

151. Exactly.

The less things in a person's mind when making a decision
or forming an opinion, the clearer and simpler will be the result.
Empty mind, empty opinion. Very relaxing.

[azmom]

163. That philosophy may work great with

Science, not so much in relationships; and isn't this what we are talking about race relations?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

164. Do not take that guy seriously

almost ever. Read more closely and ask yourself
does it make one single bit of sense?

[azmom]

165. Well, that was a waste of time. I thought you were serious.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

167. Maybe "literally" is a better word.

As in, don't take that guy literally.

Sometimes ignorance (not yours but the people
the OP is about) is so profound and numbing
that parody is the only way to fully see, experience
or feel that ignorance. It's like putting on the ignorant
person like a suit of clothes and exaggerating the movements
of their argument to its preposterously logical extreme.

Do you see?

[azmom]

170. Yes, I see now. But, it does

Come accross as just fucking with us. Do you see?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

171. No, because you don't know me

& a goodly few of others here do.
Not everything on du is to be taken literally.
Some of the best writing has a satirical or
parodyical (?) bent. But I'm sorry that you
feel fucked with. The intent is first to express
something in me that can only find indirect
expression. Again, though, sorry to have upset
you in any way. Peace.

[azmom]

157. Up?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

158. Well, sideways at least.

[azmom]

161. What does Up stand for because you said,

In any case, I'm a proponent of
"Up with opinion uncluttered by actual experience!"

[A-Schwarzenegger]

162. "Up with"

"an exclamation expressing support for a stated person or thing"

[Number23]

152. ALL the recs and ALL the gold stars for you

And I have no time or patience for ANY of these people. The ones who argue with black people about what is and is not racist, WHO is and is not racist as if they've got the first fucking clue.

I've been reading about these black students at Univ of OK and how many of them are saying that they are not even the tiniest, teeniest bit surprised about what that fraternity said because it's all part of the culture there. How many of these kids didn't even bother going to anyone about this stuff because they know that no one would listen to or believe them?

The ONLY way this crap is ever going to go away is people need to stop being so hyper defensive, shut the fuck up and actually listen. And for alot of white people, who have been trained since infancy that they are smarter/wiser/more good and noble than people of color, that may also involve taking the staggering perspective that maybe, just maybe, on certain issues the people you have been taught are inferior to you in every way may actually know what they're talking about much, much, MUCH better than you ever will.

[CreekDog]

154. this, and especially that concluding sentence

thanks!