General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"We haven’t bled enough. It’s never enough for these sons of bitches."
Go thou through the link, and read the whole thing.
Sadly however the tide of history often turns on the actions of a ruthless and selfish few.
A peaceful end to the war and a triumphant return of American troops would hand Johnson, and by extension Hubert Humphrey and the Democrats, an enormous political victory and most likely the election.
And how different would our world be today if that had been the case?
Instead, Republican presidential candidate and senator from California, Richard Nixon, faced with likely defeat in the coming election, ordered his liaison to the South Vietnam government, Anna Chennault, to sabotage the pending deal.
...
Nixon attempted to sabotage the peace process solely in order to further his own political ambitions.
He didnt do it because he believed it was bad for America, or bad for the world, or even bad for Vietnam.
He did it because he was a selfish, criminal, partisan son of a bitch.
...
Faced with the embarrassing failure of the peace talks, the democrats lost their lead in the polls and Richard Milhous Nixon narrowly won the White House in November of 1968.
And the war continued on for another seven terrible years.
In that seven years another 20,000 US troops died bringing the total US dead to 58,220. No one knows how many Vietnamese died.
In that seven years more than 100,000 US troops were wounded. No one knows how many Vietnamese were wounded and continued to be killed, maimed, and terribly injured for decades afterward by the unexploded ordnance and toxins left buried beneath the former battlefields.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/03/the-second-coming-of-richard-millhouse.html
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)or that he was more liberal than _____ ( insert a Democrats name) I want to puke.
He WAS a selfish, criminal, partisan son of a bitch.
I hated him more than Reagan to tell the truth. Of course, I lost friends in Vietnam... could have lost my husband, but he was stationed stateside.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)And then I reread and saw you said Democrats.
He was a selfish, criminal, partisan son of a bitch and he was nowhere as bad as some recent and current Republicans.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)also add to his being the biggest son of a bitch ever in the White House. No amount of compensatory decision making on his part has saved his legacy.
I'm so glad this came up. Sabotage of peace talks is treasonous.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)Nixon's being a selfish, criminal, partisan son of a bitch. Possibly the only thing good that he ever did was to begin to normalize relations with the PRC.
Of course, he had been the strongest opposition leader to any Dem ever trying to do that.
It was also under Nixon that the "Chicago Boys" conducted their "experiments" in South America as very well described by Naomi Klein and many others.
I didn't know that it was possible to hate any Republican more than I hated Nixon. But Reagan proved me wrong. Since Reagan, my hatred quotient for Republicans has increased at least a hundredfold, I'm afraid.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)a new cheap labor source and new markets.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)whereas before he had absolutely fought it. http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/modern/jb_modern_nixchina_1.html
And yes, I totally agree with the cynical reasons that you state.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and today's Repukes, he was not an ideologue.
Nixon was above all an opportunist who sought to make himself look like a "statesman" on the world stage. Whatever he thought would burnish the reputation of one Richard M. Nixon was what he chose to do. Nixon was as devoid of ideology as anyone can be. He was a ruthless, cold-hearted, amoral, calculating egotist who was so crooked he had to have two minions help him screw his pants on every morning, but not an ideologue. Same goes for his partner in war crimes, Kissinger.
He opened relations with the PRC for two reasons, neither of them related to corporate America: (1) To exloit the growing tensions between Moscow and Beijing. This was a Very Big Deal in the 1960s and 1970s. Nixon thought a tilt to China would set the Soviets back on their heels and make them more "cooperative" (2) because he thought that the Chinese had some influence over Ho Chi Minh and his successors. Which they did not, as even the most cursory knowledge of centuries-long hatred the Vietnamese have felt for the Chinese, who traditionally colonized Vietnam going all the way back to the time of the Trung sisters 1000 years ago, would make clear.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)or Clinton's, for that matter.
Three Democrats have held the position of commander-in-chief since the Richard Nixon era, but if you ask philosopher Noam Chomsky, it was the 37th president and infamous Watergate casualty who was truly the last liberal to preside in the Oval Office.
During a discussion on HuffPost Live, Chomsky weighed in on the minimum wage debate, blaming neo-liberals for keeping talk of wage increases off the table until now...
In the 1950s and 1960s, before Nixon took office, minimum wage stayed on track with productivity. However, that pattern fell off in the next decade. After six years of stagnant wages and escalating costs of living, the Nixon administration stepped in -- in 1974, Nixon signed an amendment to the Fair Labor Standards Act. That law raised wages by more than 40 percent.
Fast-forward to today, and once again lawmakers and the White House have found themselves in a debate over what constitutes an acceptable minimum wage for Americans.
Obama signed an executive order a few weeks ago raising the minimum wage of federal contractors to $10.10 an hour. The president hoped that his move would encourage more businesses to raise their hourly wages as well.
But even the new $10 hourly rate is less than what minimum pay would be if adjusted for inflation...It's all part of what Chomsky described as a neo-liberal assault on economic policy... "Part of the neo-liberal assault was the minimum wage in real value started declining, and not growing. As GDP of economy grew, as productivity grew, minimum wage stagnated. So it should be raised considerably."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/21/noam-chomsky-richard-nixon_n_4832847.html
He was a keen foreign policy type whose diplomatic efforts strengthened our relationships with both established and emerging world powers.
He implemented the first significant federal affirmative action program.
He dramatically increased spending on federal employee salaries.
He oversaw the first large-scale integration of public schools in the South (something the crackers where I grew up were none too happy about).
He proposed a guaranteed annual wage (aka a negative income tax).
He advocated comprehensive national health insurance (single payer) for all Americans.
He imposed wage and price controls in times of economic crisis. This wasnt a terribly good idea, but it was the furthest thing from a conservative idea. Truth is, it was positively socialist.
He indexed Social Security for inflation and created Supplemental Security Income
He created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and the Office of Minority Business Enterprise.
He promoted the Legacy of Parks program.
He appointed four Supreme Court Justices. Three of them voted with the majority in Roe v. Wade.
Now, am I telling you Nixon was Mother Teresa? No.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/641730/if_nixon_were_alive_today,_he_would_be_far_too_liberal_to_get_even_the_democratic_nomination
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)The EPA for example was all politics, not because he believed in anything.
Nope.. he was an evil man and absolutely nothing anyone says or writes changes that.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)supposed liberals who followed him, who also bend to political calculation.
Rex
(65,616 posts)On what planet? Do you know anything about Richard Nixon?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)when the country actually was somewhat liberal?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Because that is pure garbage. I'll wait...
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)ND-Dem,
Interesting and true points. Except for the first. Yes Nixon gave us the EPA - a reasonable calculation and this shouldn't be a conservative vs. liberal issue, and yes he made nice with China for various political reasons. He also weaned and whelped a couple of nasty puppies like Rumsfeld and Cheney. However, he did not get us out of Viet Nam. After the first election, in early 1969 the tapes have a conversation with Haldemann and Kissinger telling Nixon that Johnson's boys were right: That the war was unwinnable even with ten years and 1 million troops. Kissinger then advised Nixon to continue the war up to 72 to insure his reelection. The original plan was to start the wind down in the fall of 72 during the election and to bank against anything going awry with the withdrawal that might affect the election. Always the calculator, he eventually did call for the end much later after being securely enthroned in 72. Keep in mind, he sabotaged the Johnson peace talks in 68 to prevent Johnson from his getting elected again. So I never ever give credit to Nixon for ending the war - he continued it for his political gain. Kissinger's own phone records have him saying that they could end the war any time they chose. They chose the latest possible time. The same Kissinger who stated that military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.
As a liberal minded progressive, I will give credit to a republican were deserved and blast a democrat when called for. But Nixon rigged an election by meddling in our country's peace process, paving the way for Reagan to convince the Iranians to hold the hostages to screw Carter and just this week we had a big chunk of the republican senate do the same openly.
All of which begs the sad question: "Why have the democrats utterly refused to call out the republicans for these crimes?"
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)I basically disagree with that one too, but I didn't want to leave it out & have someone attribute ulterior motives to me.
one has one's ideas about why democrats have refused to call out republicans on those matters. but one may not verbalize them here.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)but that was in response to public outcry over two major environmental disasters that occurred in 1969-- the massive Santa Barbara oil spill (the largest in the US up to that time), and the Cayahoga River fires.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Most of which LBJ's administration got the ball rolling on. There's one thing you don't do as President, and that's roll back policy that is already in place and moving forward. Even getting out of Vietnam was under Johnson's timetable (Operation Menu), which, ironically, was to be included in the articles of impeachment, since it was a secret operation that Nixon undertook.
SSI, EPA, OSHA, NOAA, those were all things that were in the works. The EPA was born out of necessity, and Nixon actually vetoed one of the Clean Water Acts. With regards to the EPA, Congress passed NEPA which forced Nixon's hand on the matter. The famous "literally now or never" quote came after NEPA's scathing reports about environmental quality came out. Basically he had no choice. NOAA, like the EPA, was merely an obvious merging of various agencies. Nixon didn't spearhead it, it was just seen as a logical policy move (in reality it wasn't that big of a deal since all it did was put the Geodetic Survey, Fishery Service, and Weather Bureau under the power of one administration). OSHA was started under Johnson, Nixon just signed off on what the Labor Bureau was wanting since 1968. SSI is an interesting case but the argument can be made that it merely followed the policies set forth in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 (War on Poverty).
I'll grant you Roe v. Wade, however, I think that decision was a pretty cut and dry decision, and we had not yet experienced the far right religious atmosphere that followed Regan.
I have an issue giving credit to Republicans for progressive policy, especially if it's clear that policy was, simply, a continuation of Democrat policy. I think the negative income tax proposal was nice, but even Goldwater proposed something like that, and his platform was championed on this forum (despite it being a MIC nightmare), except there were no major efforts to achieve it. Same goes for single payer. Everyone and their mother was promising that back then but somehow no one managed to do it.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)appointees.
To deal with just one of your claims: OSHA wasn't 'started under Johnson'.
On April 14, 1969, President Richard Nixon introduced two bills into Congress which would have also protected worker health and safety.[7] The Nixon legislation was much less prescriptive than the Johnson bill, and workplace health and safety regulation would be advisory rather than mandatory.[9] However, Representative James G. O'Hara and Senator Harrison A. Williams introduced a much stricter bill similar to the Johnson legislation of the year before.[7]
Companion legislation introduced in the House also imposed an all-purpose "general duty" clause on the enforcing agency as well. With the stricter approach of the Democratic bill apparently favored by a majority of both chambers, and unions now strongly supporting a bill,[12][13] Republicans introduced a new, competing bill.[7] The compromise bill established the independent research and standard-setting board favored by Nixon, while creating a new enforcement agency. The compromise bill also gave the Department of Labor the power to litigate on the enforcement agency's behalf (as in the Democratic bill).[7] In November 1970, both chambers acted: The House passed the Republican compromise bill, while the Senate passed the stricter Democratic bill (which now included the general duty clause)....
In exchange for a Republican proposal to establish an independent occupational health and safety research agency, Democrats won inclusion of the "general duty" clause and the right for union representatives to accompany a federal inspector during inspections.[14] The conference committee bill passed both chambers on December 17, 1970, and President Nixon signed the bill on December 29, 1970.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_Safety_and_Health_Act_(United_States)
I won't spend as much time on the others or I'd be here all day, but SSI was not "in the works".
Neither was EPA or NOAA except in the sense that both were mergers of previously existing government programs; but that wasn't all that happened.
http://www2.epa.gov/aboutepa/guardian-origins-epa
http://www.history.noaa.gov/legacy/noaahistory_2.html#introduction
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)If Johnson introduced OSHA style standards and they didn't pass, that doesn't mean the policy process ended.
Policy wonks didn't change significantly between administrations, the people in labor who wanted it under Johnson did not just stop working for it under Nixon.
But the Republicans get the credit...
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)or maybe 'nixoncare' because Nixon apparently mentioned it first?
you have some selective bias going on here, methinks....
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)After the coup President tried to unwind everything.
Hell, even Bush tried to do shit with Medicare... (pitifully, with his own stupid market based approach that didn't allow for bargaining).
Administrations don't exist in a vacuum, they go on whatever the previous administration was doing, it's one reason Obama's Presidency is seen as mediocre (from pundits, I personally find it quite remarkable).
Obamacare is certainly, without a doubt, a continuation of the Clinton attempt to get health care coverage expanded.
Importantly, Clinton and Obama basically proposed the same dang thing during the campaign (Edwards did too). It's not like it was controversial or groundbreaking for Obama.
We don't call the EPA the Nixon Environmental Protection Agency.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)all that happened on his watch.
I have no problem crediting Obama and saying the Clintons failed.
but you want to credit Johnson for what Nixon passed after johnson failed.
likewise I credit Johnson for the civil rights act, even though it was Kennedy's baby originally, and Kennedy's death that helped Johnson pass it. nevertheless, Johnson did it.
I think you just don't like Nixon getting any credit because it shows how weak or 'non-Democratic" recent Democratic administrations have actually been.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)Every one of those liberal acts were forced upon him by an overwhelmingly Democratic Congress (Dems had 60%+ majorities in both houses).
He the vetoed the Clean Water Act. The veto was overridden, so he then withheld the funds necessary to implement it.
The EPA was simply a consolidation of existing agencies (a PR move designed to look like he was doing something without actually doing anything).
He slowed down integration as part of the racist "Southern Strategy" until forced to take action by the courts.
He fired his Interior Secretary (Wally Hickel) for criticizing the Vietnam War.
He gutted many Great Society programs.
He opposed a universal health insurance plan.
He appointed four conservative Supreme Court justices including Rehnquist, who voted to install Bush in 2000.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Nixon's SC appointees were:
Burger (Chief Justice): Purportedly a conservative, he ruled "liberally" relatively often:
e.g. unanimous decision on Swann (bussing), Roe, US v Nixon.
Blackmun: "Appointed by Republican President Richard Nixon, Blackmun ultimately became one of the most liberal justices on the Court."
Powell: "developed a reputation as a judicial centrist[3] who was known for consensus-building during his tenure"
& Rehnquist. Who succeeded Burger as CJ in 1986 and held the chair to 2005.
JHB
(37,159 posts)The Dixiecrats hadn't been recruited into becoming Dixiepublicans yet, Movement Conservative Republicans had not yet purged the more moderate Rockefeller Republicans, the New Deal wasn't a "relic" of their Grandparents' day, the conservative spin-projection apparatus was still just on the drawing board, and there were still actual Communist nations in the world as an obvious counterpoint to people who claimed that things like Social Security or progressive taxation were "Marxist".
When Nixon was in the game, the game was hardball, not Thunderdome.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)used the racist "Southern strategy", among other things prevents me from hailing these accomplishments. While these are admirable in some ways, I think he was pandering to the people because he knew it would translate into votes.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)where even Nixon beats the democrats on domestic policy.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The leaders of the confederacy should have been executed. The putchists who tried to overthrow fdr should have been executed. Nixon should have been executed for the 1968 treachery. Reagan and Bush should have gotten the rope for Iran contra. Scalia and the other justices should have been imprisoned for the y2k coup.
It keeps happening because no one is ever punished. Once some deterrents are executed, behavior modification will commence.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)at the despicable antics of Orville Faubus and George Wallace.
History is full of awful politicians,but those two were hate-filled nuts.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)What is the obsession on here lately with executing political opponents?
I've noticed it a lot lately, and figured someone so open about a desire to execute most of the Republican presidents since Ike is probably a good person to ask.
And another question:
... so explain why the death penalty works as a deterrent, while the 1,403 people executed in the U.S. since 1976 haven't stopped murder?
I'm sorry if I come off as confrontational, but I'm getting sick of reading about "Execute X!" and "Execute Y!" all the time on here. If I wanted to read about "treason" and executing political opponents, I'd go to Free Republic.
I don't believe the government should execute anyone. Then again, I'm probably the only person who wasn't happy we murdered Osama bin Laden.
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)Civilized countries use courts. Just as we did at Nuremberg.
tomp
(9,512 posts)...people like hussein and bin laden have too many tales to tell in open court.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Right in this thread. It's hard to imagine anything nuttier than that.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You also say we should have jailed 5 Supreme Court justices who supported Bush in 2000.
That's nutty.
What a joke.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Too many of our current crew of Republican (and possibly Democratic) leaders would be implicated in their wrong doings.
Our Nation sucks.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)club is not a deterrent.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You also say we should have hanged Reagan and Bush.
I think this is just performance art on your part.
Not to be taken seriously.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)winetourdriver
(196 posts)I've thought the same thing for a long time-(I am 64), if you don't punish these people for their treason, and we don't, where is the incentive for them to stop? It would be different if the dems did the same thing, but they don't....
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I sent it on to a few younger folks that weren't born yet but I remember all of it.
I could not believe that we got fooled again. The people we put in charge learned nothing from the past.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)Rumsfeld, Cheney, Kissinger, Bush... the same cast of warmongering motherfuckers.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)know about our recent past. The trouble is that they don't give a damn; all they care about is that obey their marching orders regardless of the consequences.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)And, to continue to pursue these actions after learning these lessons means they are most likely psychopaths.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Martin Eden
(12,864 posts)jalan48
(13,863 posts)OnlinePoker
(5,719 posts)A week before the assassination, Kennedy was 2nd among Democrats, 6 points behind Humphrey and 2 points ahead of McCarthy according to Gallup. Kennedy probably had the momentum after the California win, but we'll never know for sure. The majority of his support came from those under 30 and if he had the nomination, these probably would have factored in the presidential election, but Nixon won quite handily so, again we'll never no for sure.
jalan48
(13,863 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)would have been an excellent to outstanding President.
Humphrey urged Dems to stand up for civil rights in the late 1940s - long before many other prominent Dems began openly advocating for them.
In 1960, Humphrey was also the one who originally proposed a bill for the establishment of the Peace Corps. http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/peace-corps/
Perhaps Humphrey seemed like a "dishrag" to those who weren't paying attention to - or don't know - his actual record. He was also unfairly tarnished by Johnson's Vietnam legacy.
But he was every bit as much of a progressive of that time as Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are today. As a former PCV, I honor his memory and wish that American voters had had the vision and the smarts to elect him over Nixon in 1968. What a lot of misery we would all have been spared.
jalan48
(13,863 posts)1968, supporting the disaster that was the Vietnam War. He appealed to the unions and older "traditional" voters. The anti-war young were left with McCarthy after Kennedy was killed. The Progressive position in 1968 was opposition to the war.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)Yes, McCarthy ran on an anti-war platform while Humphrey was necessarily tied to Johnson. But Humphrey would have ended the war.
McCarthy was more of a dilettante politician with his own agenda than a progressive, while Hubert was a progressive heart and soul who was in politics because he really believed that he could make a difference in the lives of ordinary people. McCarthy was also mean and petty, especially to other Dems. And his nasty rhetoric was used against Dems by the GOPers.
I personally have never forgiven McCarthy for the party split he was in large part responsible for in 1968 and which continued for several cycles thereafter. And I never will.
jalan48
(13,863 posts)The country was divided over the war. It was the big deal. Humphrey didn't make a complete break with Johnson over it. He represented the Democratic status quo at a time when it meant life and death for thousands of Americans and Vietnamese. Like Johnson, he was great on domestic issues and terribly wrong about Vietnam. In the general election voters were forced to choose between a hawk, Richard Nixon, and Humphrey, a man tied to the war because of his long association with Johnson and the mainstream elements of the Democratic establishment. When I look at 2016 it seems not much has changed.
AikenYankee
(135 posts)jalan48
(13,863 posts)I saw him speak in April of 68. He was passionate and the people loved him. He was committed to ending the war and with his charisma and speaking ability he would have won against the dour, fear mongering Nixon (Humphrey almost did with all his baggage). It was a sad day when he was murdered, it meant thousands more would die in an evil and senseless war.
AikenYankee
(135 posts)That obviously greatly impacted him. Such a kind, compassionate person. Yes, his murder was a tragic event for our country.
jalan48
(13,863 posts)I think it was at the end of March, not April. I was living in Seattle then. He didn't come off as a regular politician I thought. More like he was on a mission.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)I am happy to say.
But when you call unions "mainstream elements of the Dem establishment" (as you did in your first post), yet do not see a candidate who strongly supported unions in 1968 as progressive, I have to scratch my head in wonder.
Yes, it was the war that was the issue that was out front and most divisive. But anti-war proponents as well as "mainstream" Dems such as union members were able to make common cause around RFK for the most part - until his tragic assassination. No, the principal factor in Humphrey's loss in 1968 was not that he wasn't progressive nor was it because he was not charismatic. Revulsion at chaotic events during the Dem Convention in Chicago had caused many in the "mainstream" to see A-W protesters as enemies of the State and Southern antipathy towards Johnson's espousal of civil rights had caused "Southern Democrats" (for the most past RINOs, as we saw later when the same coalitions also voted for Reagan in 1980) to defect in large numbers to third party-candidate, George Wallace.
Humphrey actually received 42.7% of the popular vote, while Nixon received 43.42% so the election was very close numerically. But it was the wholesale defection of the South to Wallace that was the deciding factor in Nixon's plurality win. http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1968
jalan48
(13,863 posts)I was in a union as was my father and what I meant was that unions were the norm in those days. Humphrey was a good man and worked to make the country a better place. Unfortunately, he got caught up in the military madness of the times. I liked Kennedy/McCarthy because they were outspoken in their opposition to the war-something Humphrey wouldn't do. As a previous poster noted the country has moved far to the right. What was mainstream in the 60's is now called radical socialism, unions are in decline and the wars continue to be waged.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)A lot of what happened to generate well-being for many in the US and in Europe post-WWII was because most world leaders espoused Keynesian economic theories in varying degrees and implemented them in their national and international policies.
Those theories worked well for the most part, and with tweaking would have worked even more to make this world a better place. Unfortunately, the rise of Milton Friedman's "Chicago School" and the insidious RW anti-Keynesian theories that were espoused, even enshrined, by the likes of Greenspan, etc., as well as the rise of the theory that a corporation's purpose is to enrich its shareholders above all else - no matter what consequences to other stakeholders - have changed the US from the shining economic and political model that it used to be in the mid-20th century into a parable to be avoided. Things were not perfect then, especially for women and minorities, but Johnson's signature of civil rights legislation was a huge step forward. Humphrey would have continued those policies and added to them.
Unfortunately, the war was disastrous to Humphrey's future as a candidate. Even with that horrible albatross around his neck, he had gained momentum in the latter stages of the campaign. Had Election Day occurred even a week later, it is possible that the outcome might have been different. But life is full of "what ifs" ... unfortunately.
The election of Richard Nixon in 1968 was at a key moment for US history and tragically, we made the wrong decision, as was the case again in 1980 with Reagan. Among other long lasting consequences, it enabled the rise, spread, mainstreaming and adoption of Friedman's theories - and also many disastrous foreign policy decisions - that later not only enabled the rise of Reagan - but of shadowy amoral figures such as the Kochs, et al. All have resulted in the disastrous economic and foreign policies this nation pursues today.
But this is why even today, we must ALL keep our eyes on the long term, because the two parties are NOT alike. No GOPer Presidential candidate is acceptable. NONE. EVER.
jalan48
(13,863 posts)I was a student back in the late 60's so my memory of that time is definitely anti-establishment. Ah, the idealism of youth. I remember Kennedy using deficit spending to stimulate the economy, which was a Keynesian approach as well I believe. Hopefully we can get back to some of the policies that made the US such a great country in the mid-20th Century. Thanks again and also-I agree 100% about the GOP.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)of Hubert H. Humphrey. He was a remarkable man and a true humanitarian.
Our country would look much different today had he been elected.
Instead, we have been on a downward spiral, with an occasional leveling off.
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)which is a sad commentary on how far to the right the party has moved.
On a lighter note, Tom Lehrer's "Whatever Became of Hubert"
eggplant
(3,911 posts)CanonRay
(14,101 posts)samsingh
(17,595 posts)gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)He was a vicious liar and manipulator when he worked for Joe McCarthy, and he was a vicious liar and manipulator until the day they put his evil ass in the ground. And every Republican currently infesting Congress is carved out of the same turd.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 15, 2015, 12:43 AM - Edit history (1)
Whittaker Chambers Congressional hearings that topped Alger Hiss with McCarthy's broader anti-communism.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)These people can never get enough blood. For them blood = money, which is can only be called psychotic.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They don't care of people suffer and die. They might even enjoy it.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)He could only dream of the trillions his descendants have looted.
Initech
(100,068 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)our own (Democratic) party first.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)believe, the same people who whacked John whacked Bobby.
Nixon wasn't responsible, he just benefited.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Then the intertubes came along and we found out they have a website.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I can not help or defend those that refuse to accept the truth.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)have people 'whacked'. it's too politically dangerous, for starters.
more powerful actors have people -- including presidents -- 'whacked'.
but they'd like us to believe that presidents are in charge -- thus their interest in promoting the idea that Johnson had john kennedy killed, or Nixon had bobby kennedy killed.
in another 20 years we'll probably be hearing that Johnson & Nixon teamed up to kill mlk.
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)indicated that it was a cabal of ultra rich, mostly Big Oil types, but included Johnson. No mention was made of any Bushes, though what looks like Bush senior appears in a photo on the route the cavalcade took.
There is a long YouTube video of an interview with her, in which she said Johnson emerged from a meeting of these types, just before JFK's murder, saying: 'That's the last time that son of a bitch is going to give me trouble.' Not verbatim, but words to that effect.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)And he didn't explain what he meant, though it became abundantly clear to her the next day.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Oh,....and The Discovery Channel. (Right after a program about sharks.)
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)thankfully, he returned safe and sound (?)... it destroyed our marriage in three years.
Of the 400+ men who left for Vietnam with him on that day, only 80 came back unscathed physically.....the rest were killed, sent home early with devastating injuries, or committed suicide, captured, etc.
I have hated these fuckers for over 50 years, and the current crop of GOP politicians is the worst I have ever encountered
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)hearts and minds of the voters if they come right out and tell the voters "we don't give a rats ass about you if you can't afford a $50,000 a plate fund raiser".
merrily
(45,251 posts)love_katz
(2,579 posts)Thanks for posting this link to Stonekettle Station. Jim Wright is an incredibly articulate writer.
And, I will NEVER stop hating Tricky Dicky for being the lying selfish manipulative SOB that he really was. All wrong-wing repukes since then have seemed to be expanding on his play book. May those kinds of strategies seriously bite them hard in their horrid a$$es, and may we all become enlightened and empowered enough to boot them to the curb, or Alpha Centauri, for preference.
butterfly77
(17,609 posts)Exactly, and none of these sumofabitches have any skin in the game they always tell us about some family member who is in the green zone or some protected area.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)It's an interesting discussion on the policy and political level. But for some of us here at DU, this really hits home. We were there in-country, and it was our blood that was spilling, and the blood of our friends, along with the blood of our enemies and the civilians caught in the middle.
I doubt I'm the only one here for whom this brings up a lot of shit, and all of our personal war experience and consequences and trauma. Especially with that subject line.
God, what a fucking tragedy!