Kamikaze Co-Pilot Accused of Mass Murder

[DonViejo]

Clive Irving

French officials say the co-pilot voluntarily crashed the Germanwings plane after locking out the pilot.

The co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525 took control of the airplane and headed straight into a mountain at more than 400 miles per hour as the passengers screamed in terror, a French prosecutor said today.

Evidence gathered from the cockpit voice recorder showed that one of the pilots had left the cockpit when the Airbus A320 reached cruise height, but was then unable to get back to the flight deck because he was locked out.

The pilot made repeated attempts to break through the door, the French official said: “We hear the pilot calling, asking to regain access to the cockpit, through the phone used to communicate between the cabin and the cockpit. There was zero response from the co-pilot.” The pilot failed to gain entry and the recording ends with the blaring of a proximity alarm, indicating that the impact with the Alps was imminent.

The prosecutor said that while the co-pilot was alone “he manipulated the flight management system to manage the descent.” The highly sophisticated computerized system of the A320 would not have detected any anomaly from these actions. Although the system uses a “flight protection envelope” to prevent pilots from what is called “over-corrrecting”—forcing the airplane into a maneuver that could destabilize it—the Germanwings A320 did not breach this safeguard in its descent. When the ground proximity warning is triggered the crew would be required to make an urgent change of course.

more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/26/did-kamikaze-pilot-kill-150-people.html

[Downwinder]

1. How about those who took the third person out of the cockpit?

[A HERETIC I AM]

2. The job the 3rd person did is no longer required on modern passenger jets...

and hasn't been for quite some time.

[Downwinder]

5. I can think of a number of crashes he could have prevented.

Same as a brakeman on a train. Only important in an emergency or preventing one.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. If a pilot or co-pilot is absolutely determined to crash the plane, no extra person ....

is going to stop it.

If memory serves, The First Officer of Egypt Air Flight 990 was successful in crashing their aircraft with the pilot sitting next to him;

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

[Downwinder]

26. 150 survived JAL Flight 350.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_350

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. GOOD! But that has nothing to do with this argument or the current state of affairs.

I don't even think it is possible to engage thrust reversers on modern planes unless there is weight on the landing gear.

You had to go all the way back to 1982 to find a single incident to justify your position?

Look, the worlds airlines are just simply not going to rehire thousands of unneeded 3rd cockpit crew members because one or two lone nuts a decade crash planes.

[Downwinder]

31. Unneeded(?)

Profits over safety.

Who is going to fight a fire in the lavatory or monitor the engine power on takeoff in icing conditions?

[A HERETIC I AM]

32. Oh, for fucks sake.

I give up.

You're right. Flight engineers are a vital part of the airline industy and for the last 33 years the aircraft manufacturers and airlines have had it all wrong.

You really need to hire yourself out as an aviation consultant.

I see a long a fruitful career.

[Downwinder]

35. No, I gave it up when safety suffered.

Going the same way as the railroads.

[BlueJazz]

45. I was wondering what type of cabin lock is on such a plane. (I've always flown 747's to Australia)

Not by choice..just luck.
Anyway, could it have been possible for the Marshals to have shot the lock on the door ? I know that could have been dangerous in itself. Just wondering ?

[A HERETIC I AM]

54. I am not a commercial pilot, just an enthusiast of aircraft and a bit of a student...

so the only answer I could give to your questions is...I don't know.

I suppose a couple of well placed rounds could breach the lock, but that is dangerous as hell, as the bullet(s) could go anywhere. What if a bullet goes through a vital piece of equipment on the other side of the door?

As is the case with almost every major crash, the industry will make corrections or modifications to both aircraft and procedure.

It would not surprise me to see more keypad style combination locks installed on cockpit doors, but again, that would not stop a determined and knowledgeable actor at the controls.

[BlueJazz]

56. Ah..yes...how right you are. I guess the only way (right now) to prevent such scenarios is to...

..never allow anyone to pilot a plane that is unbalanced. Yeah...good luck with that.

Oh...the other poster was writing about a 3rd person?? If I were going to do such an act, a well place piece of steel rod slammed against their head would end THAT deal. I mean, you're going to kill over a hundred people and you have some moral judgment on NOT killing anybody who could stop you ?? Again..Yeah..right.

Thanks for your answer.

[A HERETIC I AM]

61. You're exactly right.

If one of the flight crew is absolutely determined to crash the plane or do anything out of the ordinary, cracking the guy in the seat next to him over the head is of little consequence.

[A HERETIC I AM]

36. One last thing.....

Here....click this. When it opens, clik the little minus sign at the right and zoom out.
http://www.flightradar24.com/42.61,-83.93/7

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE little yellow planes are commercial airliners.

Almost every single one of them will arrive at their destination today, safe and sound, just like every other day.

But you go on with your bad self.

Here's a target and a tool;

[Downwinder]

38. Not a concern unless it falls on me.

Then it won't matter.

[RoccoR5955]

48. Not a target nor a tool

It's a windmill at long rest, according to the position of the sails, and Dutch tradition.

[A HERETIC I AM]

51. Picayune.

Definition number 2;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/picayune

[hack89]

37. Flight attendants can fight the fire

and modern display and monitoring systems makes it very easy for a two man crew to monitor the engines - they don't have to monitor a multitude of gauges.

[Agschmid]

44. Intentional ignorance.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

60. Airliners really don't need 3 in the cockpit.

2 can truly do everything needed. Economics.

[Downwinder]

63. Until one goes out and something goes wrong.

Drones have shown that it is not necessary to have a pilot in the aircraft as long as all goes well.

[CBGLuthier]

3. How about just blaming the asshole who was too much of a coward to use a gun or knife or jump

from a tall building instead of killing all those innocents. Modern planes do not need a third man. In fact the real solution to all of this bullshit will be the day when they eliminate the pilots altogether. They barely need them as it is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Perhaps he didn't have suicide on his mind but homicide./NT

[Downwinder]

7. With a third crew member he could not have done it.

[former9thward]

8. Maybe he knocks the third guy out.

Then we need a fourth, then a fifth....

[Downwinder]

10. The third guy is sitting in a position of advantage.

[Agschmid]

12. This "third guy" thing doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.

[Downwinder]

17. Only to increase bonuses.

[Agschmid]

46. It's 2015, automation is a thing...

Unfortunately technology has made people redundant.

[Downwinder]

49. There are risks.

[former9thward]

13. How do you know?

Does he have a gun trained on the co-pilot while the pilot is out taking a piss?

[Downwinder]

14. He would be sitting behind and above the pilots.

[A HERETIC I AM]

20. Above?

On what aircraft would the flight engineer's position be ABOVE the other two?

Regardless, your argument is falling flat.

[jberryhill]

22. So, you put another guy in there...

...and what if THAT guy is ill-intentioned?

Any safety system that depends on humans should account for the fact that any human can be a psychopath.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. "That's the problem with crazy people. They don't know they're crazy" -

Jim Jeffries

[Agschmid]

47. +1

This is literally the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen on DU and that is saying something...

[jberryhill]

50. Eh

"most ridiculous argument I have ever seen on DU" has far more contenders than idle chatter about aircraft safety.

I run into issues with assumptions of trust in policy design in a lot of contexts, and am always surprised at the lack of consideration for "but what if there is a psychologically imbalanced person in the loop".

[Takket]

40. you are digging yourself into a deeper hole.

[dixiegrrrrl]

43. US flights require a flight attendant to be in cabin if one of the pilots leave

but that is not rule for non-USA airlines, according to Guardian story this am.

[HockeyMom]

53. Yes, I have seen that

I like sitting up front in planes. Captain will come out to say hi to passengers. Head Flight Attendent goes inside the cockpit. Never knew though it was a US rule made after 9/11.

[Javaman]

58. there as to be a fail safe solution to this...

When the proximity warning goes off, the door unlocks automatically?

I don't know, I'm just spit balling.

[Rex]

4. Do they still have air marshalls on flights or is that just an American thing?

How tragic and wrong, I wonder why he would do such a thing? You would think he would leave a note at his home or the office. Nothing? Is it possible he had a heart attack while being alone in the cockpit?

[beam me up scottie]

9. A heart attack is unlikely.

It appears he manually controlled the descent.

[Rex]

11. That is horrible, I feel so sorry for all the families that got 'that call'.

May he rot in hell then. A narcissistic coward to the bitter end.

[beam me up scottie]

18. 8 minutes of unimaginable horror.

This wasn't suicide, imo, it was murder.

[Rex]

25. Agree.

100%

[pampango]

27. “I think the victims realized just at the last moment,” he said."

Robin said just before the plane hit the mountain, the sounds of passengers screaming could be heard on the audio.

“I think the victims realized just at the last moment,” he said.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/03/26/alone-at-controls-co-pilot-sought-to-destroy-plane-with-150-on-board/

From what I have read, the co-pilot put the plane into a controlled descent . A steeper descent was prevented by the plane's programming. So the passengers seem not to have known anything was wrong until shortly before impact, at least screaming was not picked up until 30 seconds or so before the end.

It certainly was murder similar in intent to someone who shoots up a school and then kills himself or drives a car-bomb into a crowd. They are investigating the background of the co-pilot. Hopefully, that will reveal useful information.

[beam me up scottie]

30. They must have seen the pilot trying to smash down the door.

I'm pretty sure they knew what was going on sooner than that.

I think the sight of the mountain appearing closer must have been what made them start screaming loud enough to be heard through the cockpit door.

And I was also thinking of what the pilot who was locked out must have been going through.

Just unimaginable.


eta: I read that Lubitz wanted to be a pilot since he was a kid. Sadly we may never know what went wrong.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. I'm no pilot, but as an experienced passenger, I feel the beginning of descent usually before

the pilot announces it. Most of the time, anyway.

I would certainly be alarmed if I sensed descent as soon as we reached cruising. Not even a short flight (say, Chicago to Louisville) has that.

[beam me up scottie]

34. Especially if you were above the Alps.

It was daylight so I'm sure they noticed.

[onenote]

39. someone who had taken that flight before might have wondered pretty quickly about the descent

But for those who never had been on that flight, it might not have occurred to them that there was anything particularly wrong at that point. It was scheduled to be a 90 minute flight and, apparently, everything was normal for about 45 minutes -- half the scheduled flying time. If the descent was at a controlled rate, folks might have noticed, but not necessarily recognized what was happening. However, by the time the plane was nearing 6000 feet (from a maximum altitude of 38,000), I would expect everyone to be aware and concerned.

[former9thward]

42. They would have known the second the pilot was yelling and pounding at the door.

Not everyone on the plane would be able to see that but plenty would.

[countryjake]

57. The horrified shrieks of 149 victims is what that cockpit tape recorded

during the final moments of Flight 9525...terror in unison. That their screams eventually grew loud enough to be heard from all the way back in the cabin to up on the flight deck is just the saddest thing ever.

Like alcibiades_mystery has said, I know the instant a plane I'm sitting in begins its descent...some people paying attention knew and the entire flight crew knew. And like you, I feel incredibly sorry for the captain of such a doomed plane; just imagining what that one person was experiencing brings me to tears, aside from the utter fear of all those passengers.



They were discussing those final minutes before the crash, early this morning on CNN; Chris Cuomo quickly stifled Richard Quest when he suggested exactly what you've said, that the screaming much have reached quite a roar for it to be picked up on the cockpit recorder. Cuomo shifted the rest of that talk to other aspects of the French Prosecutor's press conference, reminding the panel that victim's families could be watching and listening. Then they drug Anderson Cooper out of bed to do the next hour of reporting, I pitied him for such a task.

That Andreas Lubitz loved flying thru all of his short life, had finally gotten his "dream job" only a year and a half ago, makes this incomprehensible...so very hard to understand what exactly could have happened.





Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz sits in front of the Golden Gate bridge in San Francisco. Facebook/Reuters

[beam me up scottie]

59. I couldn't sleep last night, just thinking about it was too much.

I understand not wanting to live anymore- better than most, but I'll never understand why anyone would want to take others with them. And with such cruelty. That the families may never know why just makes it that much worse.

As usual, you put it much more eloquently than I ever could, countryjake.

Thanks for getting it.

[ailsagirl]

62. It's beyond sane people's comprehension

This guy had to be certifiable

But how did he fool people for so long??

[beam me up scottie]

65. He could have snapped because of something recent.

A break up, maybe. Severe emotional pain could have caused him to do this as easily as hatred.

Such a terrible tragedy for all involved, including Andreas' family.

[countryjake]

67. +1

Yes.

[countryjake]

66. I'm having trouble finding any peace, also...

since the story first broke yesterday that the crash was no accident. Can't stop shaking my head, wondering, imagining, and feeling for every single family member that's left behind. I keep hugging myself when I think of how they must be taking this inconceivable news...just want to hug them all, I guess.

I know that I wish a very special peace for Captain Patrick Sondenheimer. A valiant pilot to the end.

Hugs to you!

[beam me up scottie]

68. Yes, he was.

I hope they never release that recording.

[countryjake]

69. Surely they won't.

But knowing the internet these days (and even CNN or faux news), it'll probably get out. I've heard unbelievably heartbreaking 911 calls played on our own local news in the past, stuff that was totally unnecessary to publicize. Everything's about ratings these days (and shock value). Absolutely nothing the media does surprises me anymore.

a big hug for our planet

[beam me up scottie]

70. That's what I'm worried about.

And you're right about the ratings, I keep wondering how long it'll be before they televise executions on Pay Per View...

I honestly believe our planet would be better off without humans (although if they were all like you I'd probably feel differently).

[cwydro]

41. It was a clear day

and they were not scheduled to land in the mountains.

The passengers certainly would have known what was going on.

Not to mention the first class pax who would be witnessing the captain trying to get in the cockpit.

Just horrifying.

[pampango]

15. Interesting information at the LA Times:

German airline crash: How do you get through a locked cockpit door?

There are multiple procedures that relate to cockpit doors (lock mechanisms on the Airbus A320 shown above) and pilots leaving the cockpit during flight. Among the most relevant:

> When a pilot leaves the cockpit, a flight attendant typically uses a food cart to block access to the cockpit when the pilot opens the door to leave. A flight attendant is supposed to remain in the cockpit and open the door for the pilot upon his or her return.

> If the cockpit door is not opened from the inside by a member of the flight crew, according to a manual for the Airbus A320 available online, the door can also be unlocked by the cabin crew outside the cockpit by entering a pre-programmed two- to seven-digit code on a keypad.

-- Matt Pearce

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-europe-germanwings-plane-crash-updates-20150326-htmlstory.html

Blocking the cockpit door with a food cart would be easy for a determined person to overcome.

If the crew outside the cockpit could enter a keypad code to unlock the door why didn't they or did they do that and the door was blocked in some other way? Also, being able to gain access to the cockpit by entering a keypad code does not seem very secure if you are concerned with terrorists gaining access to the cockpit.

[peabody]

24. According to the Huffington Post:

"Cockpit doors can be opened from the outside with a code, in line with regulations introduced after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, but the code can be overridden from inside the cockpit."

[pampango]

28. Thanks. That's makes sense in a terrorist scenario. Terrible that it led to this. n/t

[get the red out]

16. I hope they dig up more answers

I can't imagine how horrible this was/is for the victims and their families. Those poor people dying in terror.

[KingCharlemagne]

21. I posted this comment on a thread in LBN about this, but I would like

to re-post it here and ask your indulgence:

I struggle to contemplate the horror. As a teacher of English as a Second Language to primarily young international students, I mourn especially the deaths of the 16 German high-school students who, in another setting, could easily have been my students. I'm going to be depressed as fuck teaching today but will try not to let my students see it.

FYI: The New York Times also has an excellent top-of-the-fold article but it hides behind a subscription paywall (at least for me). I was able to read it on my smartphone, but can't get the link to paste here from my phone.

[LittleBlue]

52. Weird. First that Malaysian flight, now this

Let this not become a new thing.

[Wella]

55. The WWII-era Japanese had nothing to do with this German airliner

Daily Beast anti-Asian fail.

[KamaAina]

64. Chalk it up to the War On Terra.

Before Nineleven(TM), cockpit doors didn't have those kind of locks.

[LeftinOH]

71. Maybe he suffered sudden paralysis, as with a stroke?

A massive stroke -even in a young person- could render one immobile and unable to communicate.

[uppityperson]

72. I thought that but reading more, he had to do a bunch of stuff to make this happen

I could see having a stroke and hitting a wrong button or 2, but from what I read as of now, it looks more complicated than that. I wondered about that also.