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marmar

(77,080 posts)
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 10:53 AM Mar 2015

Sustainable Living Means Making Big Changes; Why Can't We Face Up to It?


Sustainable Living Means Making Big Changes; Why Can't We Face Up to It?

Sunday, 29 March 2015 00:00
By Kirstie O'Neill, Adrian Friday and Adrian K. Clear, The Conversation | Op-Ed


Despite the significant risks for human and non-human life, greenhouse gas emissions (GhG) are still rising. Something has to give – and that something would appear more significant than those with the power to stimulate change are willing to admit.

The UK government’s Global Calculator is a good example. This recently released tool allows us to model the compatibility of our food, travel, housing and work environment with national targets to limit climate change. The climate secretary, Ed Davey, reckons the calculator shows “everyone in the world can prosper while limiting global temperature rises to two degrees, preventing the most serious impacts of climate change.”

Yet even the most ambitious changes the tool advocates deviate little from our current “normal” patterns of behaviour – supposedly “essential” appliances still include tumble driers, while under the “extremely ambitious” scenario, the urban car would still account for 29% of journeys (currently 41.5%) per year. Meat is included as a core component of daily meals, and very few indicators relate to diet. It remains to be seen which government would adopt the “extremely ambitious” changes.

This isn’t what a sustainable future looks like. It isn’t even close. Do we really need tumbledried clothes, or to eat meat every day?

Transitioning to sustainability will require profound changes in our everyday ways of living, particularly in westernised countries. It requires changes that are much more significant than simply doing the things that we currently do, but more efficiently. ....................(more)

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/29916-sustainable-living-means-making-big-changes-so-why-can-t-we-face-up-to-it




37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sustainable Living Means Making Big Changes; Why Can't We Face Up to It? (Original Post) marmar Mar 2015 OP
Because it means making big changes. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #1
exactly. cali Mar 2015 #3
Ka-Ching n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2015 #32
Seems like the answer is contained in the question tularetom Mar 2015 #2
People at the top can't stand the thought of a negative cash flow, that's the problem Warpy Mar 2015 #4
People at the bottom are not buying energy star appliances because they can't afford it cali Mar 2015 #7
Most people at the bottom are renting and they do not have the choice of energy star. My s-i-l jwirr Mar 2015 #15
I just want to give you cali Mar 2015 #35
Yes. We do need to be quiet about it though - if the Rs ever learn that this program actually helps jwirr Mar 2015 #36
There are small things we could do that would have an impact yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #5
I don't see those as practical steps. And the paper plate idea just doesn't strike cali Mar 2015 #9
I understand your points but we have to start somewhere yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #12
What is the tumble drier alternative? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #6
... handmade34 Mar 2015 #13
That's what my parents used indoors when I was growing up, in a smaller wooden version. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #16
Yup, I had an old wooden style of this. I like this one. jwirr Mar 2015 #17
There are heat pump dryers that don't need to be vented and use 50%-60% less energy. Luminous Animal Mar 2015 #25
Thanks, I'll look those up. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #26
If we could just work together everyone could live comfortable lives Marrah_G Mar 2015 #8
Interested in your example of the tumble drier. My children were born when we still hung our jwirr Mar 2015 #10
good article... handmade34 Mar 2015 #11
Problem is that meat is a food group the even government says is needed yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #14
guidelines are changing... handmade34 Mar 2015 #19
No the government does not advise eating meat with every meal. The government Luminous Animal Mar 2015 #20
Thanks. I don't know where I got my dumb comment from. yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #22
You're welcome! Most people are unaware that the amount of protein recommended is so low. Luminous Animal Mar 2015 #24
How about giving up having children? Or limiting it to one child per woman? FLPanhandle Mar 2015 #29
all actions should be on the table... handmade34 Mar 2015 #33
Money and the "work ethic." hunter Mar 2015 #18
Recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2015 #21
Probably because the death toll would make Hitler a piker Telcontar Mar 2015 #23
oh it is *sustainable* d_r Mar 2015 #27
+1 FLPanhandle Mar 2015 #30
Cutting the work week could make a big difference starroute Mar 2015 #28
Many people like everyone to have a good life--so long as it doesn't impact THEIR bottom line. MADem Mar 2015 #31
Pure selfishness on our parts azmom Mar 2015 #34
the Middle Class is the enemy....why is that? quadrature Mar 2015 #37

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
2. Seems like the answer is contained in the question
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:04 AM
Mar 2015

Humans don't do well with "big changes".

In fact as the article points out the changes actually aren't that great, but we'll drag our feet and resist so much that they'll seem that way.

Warpy

(111,261 posts)
4. People at the top can't stand the thought of a negative cash flow, that's the problem
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:06 AM
Mar 2015

and it affects the Democratic leadership every bit as much as the Republicans.

People at the bottom are making changes, like getting energy star appliances if they can afford to do it, driving sedans instead of SUVs, and conserving where they can in order to cut the bills.

We need top down change but it's not going to happen while the top continues to make paper profits. Only when they start seeing the money going out will they accept things like higher taxation unless they restart domestic industry including renewable energy to resurrect a moribund economy.

It's not going to last much longer, it's not sustainable and choking off the demand side by offshoring good jobs and suppressing wages for bad ones will bring the whole business to a tottering halt sooner rather than later.

Climate change will exacerbate everything as people add real hunger to poverty. A hungry population has been known to terrify the wealthy into adopting changes.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. People at the bottom are not buying energy star appliances because they can't afford it
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:14 AM
Mar 2015

by definition, if you're on the bottom you can't afford such things.

I don't think people at the bottom are making changes. I don't think people at the top are making changes and I don't think people in the middle are making changes- at least not in the substantive ways mentioned in the article.

As others have noted, humans don't make big changes with ease.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
15. Most people at the bottom are renting and they do not have the choice of energy star. My s-i-l
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:34 AM
Mar 2015

owns a apartment house - he buys energy star because of the refunds from the government and the tax breaks.

Some poor do not have choices. I do not have a car anymore not only because I do not trust my driving skills but because for years I have not been able to afford one. I live in a small bedroom in a house I share a bathroom and kitchen. But I would agree that the poor may not make the changes because they cannot afford to.

I was interested to learn that some states who have weatherization are actually putting energy star appliances in houses they work on. Good move. Insulating homes and putting new furnaces in also helps the poor make the changes.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
35. I just want to give you
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 06:24 PM
Mar 2015

a for this post.

I get it. I'm no longer in that position, but I sure as hell have been. One of the things I love about VT is Energy Vermont which helps the poor is such things as insulating homes.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
36. Yes. We do need to be quiet about it though - if the Rs ever learn that this program actually helps
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 06:29 PM
Mar 2015

the poor and is also good for the climate they will surely cut it!


Thank you for the hug.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
5. There are small things we could do that would have an impact
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:11 AM
Mar 2015

Hotels could stop providing towels and everyone just brings their own towels which I predict would not be changed daily as they are in hotels. Same with cruise ships who use a lot of water and energy simply washing towels and changing sheets everyday or two. Americans should use recycled paper products for plates for meals which would save so much water and energy. There is a lot of small things Americans can do that would add up pretty quickly. I know that I use paper plates for all meals except major holidays Christmas and Thanksgiving. I am saving the planet a little at a time.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. I don't see those as practical steps. And the paper plate idea just doesn't strike
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:17 AM
Mar 2015

me as something that would make a positive impact. I rarely use paper plates because they get thrown out. And where I live, water is abundant and it doesn't take much hot water to wash dishes.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
12. I understand your points but we have to start somewhere
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:23 AM
Mar 2015

And we need Americans to take baby steps or we get discouraged and feel deprived...human nature. The paper plates I use are recycled and I put them in the recycling bucket.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
6. What is the tumble drier alternative?
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:12 AM
Mar 2015

Are we all supposed to go back to clotheslines, or is there some other 'tech' that's more efficient than tumble driers? (I live in a town that's downwind from a coke and steel plant, and has had troubles over the years with black soot being deposited on things outside, and is in one of the parts of the country that is notoriously bad for allergies. Drying clothes indoors without them getting dirty again is feasible, but takes up room and takes far longer so that clothes can end up smelling 'mildewy'. Sure, if I lived in some rural area, I could use a clothesline without worrying about my dried clothes being dirtier than before I washed them, or mildewing as they slowly dried inside.)

But I could certainly do with less meat in my diet.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
16. That's what my parents used indoors when I was growing up, in a smaller wooden version.
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:35 AM
Mar 2015

Always left clothing smelling sort of mildewy and took a lot longer to dry. I was hoping the authors maybe had some 'tech' solution that used less power. Maybe something like that but inside a solar oven deal? Lots of mirrors to direct sunlight?

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
8. If we could just work together everyone could live comfortable lives
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:15 AM
Mar 2015

This planet and human intelligence could easily provide comfortable lives for all. Sadly, greed makes that impossible.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
10. Interested in your example of the tumble drier. My children were born when we still hung our
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:17 AM
Mar 2015

clothes out to dry. It was great BUT not in the winter. I remember getting frozen clothes off the line in 2 feet of snow. Many of us gave up on that and would string lines in the living room to hang things on washday. Curious is there something today that is an alternative to the tumble drier other than what I just described?

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
11. good article...
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:18 AM
Mar 2015

unfortunately, even here on a (supposed) liberal site, when there is mention of cutting meat consumption… the answer sometimes is akin to ""…over my dead body…" how ironic



The amount of carbon dioxide that is given off per pound of beef is, in fact, greater than burning a gallon of gasoline

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150311-cow-agriculture-cattle-dairy-beef-health-food-ngbooktalk



Eating less meat essential to curb climate change, says report

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/03/eating-less-meat-curb-climate-change
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
14. Problem is that meat is a food group the even government says is needed
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:27 AM
Mar 2015

Every meal. Now we could go with a five ounce steak rather then a 14 ounce steak. That would be a start. Load up on vegetables and a bigger baked potato maybe.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
19. guidelines are changing...
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:45 AM
Mar 2015

new 2015 to come out soon… (unfortunately the meat industry lobbyies heavily) the old guidelines linger


http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2010/DietaryGuidelines2010.pdf

Choose a variety of protein foods, which include seafood, lean meat and poultry, eggs, beans and peas, soy products, and unsalted nuts and seeds.


Consumption of a balanced variety of protein foods can contribute to improved nutrient intake and health benefits. For example, moderate evidence indicates that eating peanuts and certain tree nuts (i.e., walnuts, almonds, and pistachios) reduces risk factors for cardiovascular disease when consumed as part of a diet that is nutritionally adequate and within calorie needs. Because nuts and seeds are high in calories, they should be eaten in small portions and used to replace other protein foods, like some meat or poultry, rather than being added to the diet.



DASH emphasizes vegetables, fruits, and low-fat milk and milk products;73 includes whole grains, poultry, seafood, and nuts; and is lower in sodium, red and processed meats, sweets, and sugar-containing beverages than typical intakes in the United States.

“Mediterranean diet” ...can be described as an eating pattern that emphasizes vegetables, fruits and nuts, olive oil, and grains (often whole grains). Only small amounts of meats and full-fat milk and milk products are usually included.


In prospective studies of adults, compared to non- vegetarian eating patterns, vegetarian-style eating patterns have been associated with improved health outcomes—lower levels of obesity, a reduced risk
of cardiovascular disease, and lower total mortality. Several clinical trials have documented that vegetar- ian eating patterns lower blood pressure.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
20. No the government does not advise eating meat with every meal. The government
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:55 AM
Mar 2015

says to eat 5-6 oz of protein A DAY from all sources including eggs, beans, nuts, and seeds.

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
22. Thanks. I don't know where I got my dumb comment from.
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 01:15 PM
Mar 2015

Probably from years of hearing different failed information from varied sources. Thank you for your reply.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
24. You're welcome! Most people are unaware that the amount of protein recommended is so low.
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 01:31 PM
Mar 2015

And when they hear the word "protein" they automatically think "meat".

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
29. How about giving up having children? Or limiting it to one child per woman?
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 02:05 PM
Mar 2015

We've been eating meat for 1000's of years, the only change is how many humans are on the planet now.

The biggest and best thing for this planet would humans to reduce their numbers.

But that, like eating meat, is a personal choice fraught with emotions.

If someone ate meat everyday, but didn't reproduce, then they are more environmentally friendly than a vegan with multiple kids.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
33. all actions should be on the table...
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 03:09 PM
Mar 2015

I do believe that "sustainability will require profound changes" and reducing the population along with less meat consumption, less fossil fuel consumption…etc…

why not have less kids, eat less meat, along with other measures… there is not one solution… "profound changes are required"

I'm in favor of 2 kids per vegetarian couple


hunter

(38,312 posts)
18. Money and the "work ethic."
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 11:40 AM
Mar 2015

People, especially wealthy people who have power and control over many "workers," can't imagine any sort of world where the best thing for the average person to do on any given day is stay home and read a book, mess around in an organic garden, or go hiking with friends.

We are trapped in a world where "economic productivity" is directly proportional to the damage we do to our earth's environment and our human spirit.

We have to figure out ways to comfortably unemploy people or shift them into sustainable industry. A good way of unemploying people is subsidized education free for life, in the arts or in retraining for sustainable industry. A good way of increasing the sustainability of our society is to get rid of automobiles, mostly in an entirely voluntary way, by restructuring our communities so they become very desirable places to live, walkable and with good public transportation, so that owning an automobile becomes an unnecessary inconvenience. Sex education needs to start before adolescence, and birth control needs to be freely available.

Machine washed and tumbled dried clothes are fairly low on the list of unsustainable economics. Fossil fueled wars and general transportation, the "car culture," are high on the list.

 

Telcontar

(660 posts)
23. Probably because the death toll would make Hitler a piker
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 01:21 PM
Mar 2015

Our only option is to push through and develope more technology to control atmospheric carbon.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
28. Cutting the work week could make a big difference
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 01:59 PM
Mar 2015

Many of the energy-intensive shortcuts we take are essential because we don't have the time to do things the old-fashioned way. Hanging clothes to dry takes more time than tossing them in the dryer (and may require ironing afterwards, which involves more time and uses energy on its own.) Cooking from scratch takes more time than using prepackaged foods. Walking or biking takes more time than driving.

If we all had an extra two hours a day, we could make some of the changes that presently look impossible.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
31. Many people like everyone to have a good life--so long as it doesn't impact THEIR bottom line.
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 02:47 PM
Mar 2015

Decent wages for all people? Great idea, so long as MY wage isn't lowered to pay those people in those sweatshops!!

Sustainable living for everyone? Sure, so long as "my" house is warm and toasty, or cool as a cucumber, so that I can run around in my drawers and bare feet the year round!!!!

It's simple to talk the talk--walking the walk, though, that's another thing altogether.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
34. Pure selfishness on our parts
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 06:03 PM
Mar 2015

In the movie interstellar there is line that says that as a species it's hard for us to have empathy for those beyond our sight. And I think that is accurate.

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
37. the Middle Class is the enemy....why is that?
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 06:38 PM
Mar 2015

people (who shall remain nameless)
that fly around in a private jet...
tell the middle class that they can't have
a 4 cyl private car.

change is going to be real tough.

.....................
a variation on that, is when
people in northern US states
think that electricity in southern states needs
to be under some type of carbon control,
but that natural gas for heating is exempt.

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