One from "our side" who goes off the deep end...

[Archae]

Talk about stupidity.

A just and free world means a world without police

Claire Van Fossen

Updated March 25, 2015

Whether we call them because of a dispute between neighbors or a robbery, a shooting or sexual violence, the police rarely meet our needs. They don’t help us heal. And they don’t prevent future harm. Rather than serve as advocates for true justice, they use their nearly limitless power to reinforce the oppressive status quo. They threaten us with violence and incarceration and target the most oppressed and vulnerable people in our society. By blaming “crime” and “criminals” instead of systemic oppression for society’s ills, the police exacerbate societal problems, harm citizens, and bar the people from liberation by maintaining the capitalist social order.

http://m.jsonline.com/purple-wisconsin/blogs/the-collective/297587211.htm

[JaneyVee]

1. Spot on article.

[Peregrine Took]

5. +100

[boston bean]

2. Are you in total disagreement with the article?

I tend to agree with quite a bit of it.

[Archae]

3. We do need to clean up police departments.

No one sane disputes that.

But NO police at all?

Recipe for anarchy.
Vicious, criminal anarchy.

[99th_Monkey]

6. The entire institution of "policing" needs to be re-invented.

Not just tinkered with.

Given the recent and ongoing rash of killer-police gunning down unarmed civilians in the streets, We the People (with support from key politicos) have every right to hold a national well-publicized convocation to decide how best to re-invent policing in the USA. This should be done with as much 'buy-in' as possible from the precious few 'good cops' out there, such as Frank Serpico.

I know it's probably never going to happen, but that's what is needed never-the-less.

[Archae]

7. Except this article offers *NO* alternative.

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:18 PM - Edit history (1)

And besides, I saw quite clearly the phrase "maintaining the capitalist social order," I see that most often in such bastions of liberty like North Korea.

Yes. Clean up police departments, even if they have to be disbanded like the Missouri one that Darren Wilson had been in.

But don't just leave us out in the lurch.

[99th_Monkey]

10. We the People are already "in the lurch"

Especially if you happen to be African American or Latino.

I'm Caucasian but I know what racism and de facto genocide looks like, and
it's already here baby.

[Man from Pickens]

9. um...

"Vicious, criminal anarchy."

That's what we got WITH the police.

Personally my mind is open to any alternatives if they can be found. Tired of living in a country where I have to fear the police even as a law-abiding citizen.

One problem is that a "police officer" is not the same things as a "peace officer" and it's really the latter which is desirable to have, not the former. Used to be the police worked directly for corporations which made it clearer what their actual function is - to keep the powerless subjugated.

[peacebird]

4. Interesting perspective. Not sure I agree. But we DO need to remind police defend & serve

Not see civilians as criminals and "other"

[Bettie]

8. I may not agree with the idea of no police

but, perhaps we should go back to the idea of them serving the community as peace officers, rather than as enforcers.

Currently, I'd think twice about calling a cop in any situation.

[NaturalHigh]

11. "Goes off the deep end" is an understatement.

Anyone silly enough to write something like this should be kept away from sharp objects and hot liquids.

[fadedrose]

12. My son is a police Sgt.

But I have to agree with you...

(He's a good guy..)

[Savannahmann]

13. Before you rebuild, you must first demolish the original.

There is no way to reform the police. Or I should say no way to do so incrementally. The entire system is beyond corrupt. If you put needed reforms into place, you would end up with no police.

An example. First polygraph testing every six months. During this test the officer must be able to pass by answering the questions. Have you lied on a report. Have you lied under oath. Are you aware of someone lying under oath. Have you planted evidence.

At least two thirds of current police would be disqualified right there. Even before you got to abusing people. This test would not get rid of the psychopaths who honestly believe they are justified and can pass the test because they believe the answer.

So those remaining after the test are either the extremely rare good cop, or a psychopath which means you have to have psychological testing. Now you are down to about a quarter of existing police left. The current ratio is about one cop for every two hundred people. By the time you are done its one for every thousand. They would stop coming to work.

We haven't even gotten into needed responsibility requirements where officers are finally held to the same standards as the citizens. Nor have we gotten to body cameras.

Anything less is more bandaids on a severed limb. In other words useless. You can't make small changes, and meaningful changes disqualifies the current crop of cops. So it will keep getting worse and eventually the system will squash us all like bugs underfoot.

[Archae]

14. Polygraphs are worthless.

So your plan has already run smack into a brick wall.

They do *NOT* "detect lies," they detect nervousness.

[laundry_queen]

16. The police force here uses them as screening candidates

My SIL had to undergo one several times as she jumped through the hoops needed to become a cop.

They do detect nervousness but they are not worthless. They detect patterns which may indicate deception. And that is useful information for a police force when wanting to weed out the ones who want to join for nefarious purposes. They turn thousands away. An ex boyfriend tried to get in several times and then couldn't, so he became a school teacher and principal. My SIL had to apply and go through the testing 3 or 4 times before she was finally accepted (and she had a psych degree and had worked years in security).

Once in the force, they also undergo multiple psychiatric tests (family too!) initially and then a psych eval yearly after that.

The force that my SIL is in has really reformed and changed after some nasty incidences a dozen years or so ago. In general, they have cleaned it up well. Screening candidates is a large part of that.

[Savannahmann]

17. Then we are left with demolishing the police before we can start over.

The article wins.

[Rex]

15. Humans will never collectively evolve to a state where we don't need law enforcement.

We would tear each other apart eventually. There would be no incentive to follow any laws. While I agree with a lot of what she says, we will always need policing.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

18. HMMMMMMMM

I wonder, for sake of discussion on your point; did Native American tribes have police?

[Rex]

19. I dunno did they have law enforcement?

[Behind the Aegis]

20. I would imagine they did; they certainly do now.

There were many nations, so it is hard to say what the law enforcement would have been. It is likely that it was different based on the nation in question. I do know they all had laws, so the likelihood is they had someone(s) who enforced said laws.