Poll should the DNC move its Convention out of North Carolina

[Ichingcarpenter]

Saw this petition this morning

Democratic National Convention Committee: Move the National Convention OUT of North Carolina



https://www.change.org/petitions/democratic-national-convention-committee-move-the-national-convention-out-of-north-carolina?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=share_page_mobile


Could the Democratic Party have used this threat
before the vote? Civil Unions are now illegal and North Carolina is gonna punish itself by losing workers.

I haven't decided how to vote but I think it might be an interesting conversation.

61 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	yes
	45 (74%)
	no
	16 (26%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[GoneOffShore]

1. Signed it, Facebooked and Tweeted.

The bigots in North Carolina have made their position clear.

The DNC should do the same. Voting on anyone's rights as a person is wrong.

[musicblind]

2. As a gay man in North Carolina I ask that they please not move their convention.

I am horribly upset by the outcome today. Both my life partner and I voted against the amendment. I have a sign in my yard against the amendment.

But the truth is... holding the DNC convention here could do more good than harm. The state IS evolving, and it needs things like the DNC to push it over the edge.

The Republicans had a clear advantage going into this because it was basically the Republican primary.

Polls show that once NC residents are TOLD what the amendment would do... it would lose.

Sadly, a lot of people are low information voters.

[groundloop]

13. "it was basically the Republican primary" - AHHH, that didn't dawn on me before

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Hopefully this issue can be brought up again in the not too distant future.

I agree with the others who have said that the advantages of having the convention in NC outweigh what would be accomplished by moving it. Plus, as already mentioned, it would be a nightmare to move it at this late date.

[joshcryer]

16. I initially voted yes, in principle, but your heart felt post changed my mind.

I know that Colorado banned same sex marriage in 2006 (Colorado Amendment 43), but it has been trending left since then.

The Colorado House already passed a Civil Unions bill (limited by Amendment 43): http://kdvr.com/2012/04/26/senate-passes-civil-unions-bill-sends-to-house/

[GOM]

62. Don't count on it.

I would like to see Obama pull the convention out of North Carolina but I have no allusions that it will happen. I have to respond to your statement that NC is evolving, etc. That is what we have heard here in Texas for years and it has only gotten worse. My partner and I don't expect to see marriage equality anywhere in the South in our lifetimes. Unless you are a hell of a lot younger than us you should not kid yourself. This religion-crazy country is hopeless, and the South is the center of this insanity.

Charlotte is probably like Austin, a little more evolved than the usual in the South. But you can bet, as this vote revealed, the rest of the state is overwhelmingly populated by the same mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging Southerners as is the rest of Texas, including Houston where I and my Partner live, no matter how much you hear about Houston being so international and cosmopolitan and even with our Lesbian Mayor.

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. I also live in Houston and I do believe, and see, signs of change.

In my suburban area Obama signs outnumbered McCain signs 2 to 1 last election. I won't give up. It's what I'm here for.

[ZombieHorde]

73. Interesting post. nt

[Tx4obama]

3. I had to vote no in the poll above because ...

there are too many folks that have been working for several months already on the planning and execution of the event.

And also there are tons of folks that have already made hotel reservations and have purchased airline tickets, etc.

To move it elsewhere now would be a HUGE MESS.

[treestar]

4. No.

Too late to move that big a thing, and it is in a blue city.

[FarPoint]

10. Agreed....

I understand the rationale for wanting to move it ...but there are great democrats there too...Charlotte is also a blue city as you said.. Our focus is to remain on President Obama's re-election...to move it in 90 days would cause chaos for our Party as well as safety. We can continue this battle after the election.

[msongs]

5. since obama does not publicly support gay marriage it would make him look....lol nt

[Son of Gob]

69. lol...lol nt

[longship]

6. Nope. Not necessary, probably counter-productive

NC is one of those states on the edge. Turning it blue would be a good thing. I can't think of a better way than to have a huge, noisy, national Democratic convention there.

on edit: It would be like thumbing our noses at the idiots.

Pulling out would make us look weak. Why would anybody want that? Fuck em.

[arthritisR_US]

20. My thoughts as well. nt

[truedelphi]

87. That is a very good point to consider.

If those who understand the issue best stay away from North Carolina, how will those inside the state who live there and are LGBT get support?

And who will instruct the most close minded?

[MrSlayer]

7. No. That would be dumb.

They're stuck with it at any rate. It's logistically impossible to pull out now and it would send a bad message if they were able and did it. It would make them look petulant and childish, punishing the whole state for something a minority of residents voted for. And you could kiss whatever hopes you had of holding the state goodbye. I would have rather the convention be held elsewhere to begin with but I understand the choice.

[boppers]

8. They burnt their cross.

To hold the convention there would accept the KKK back in.

I am *NOT* ok with that idea.

[quaker bill]

9. No

We should do what we can to support the 40% that voted no.

[myrna minx]

11. Lets reward the anti-union, anti-gay businesses/state with DNC money. Perhaps they can

offer complimentary trans vaginal-ultra sounds for the ladies.

**I know there's a good many wonderful people in NC, but I wasn't happy about the convention being held in an anti-union state to begin with.

[Scuba]

17. +1

[joeybee12]

27. I agree...holding it there in the first place was a mistake...

And keeping it there now will just highlight yesterday's vote...that's all the media will talk about during the convention.

[Robb]

46. I can live with that.

The more people talk about equal rights the better.

[madrchsod]

12. should`t be there to begin with and now this...

big slap in the face to unions and gay rights....oh well, they know we don`t have a choice so they don`t care.

[quinnox]

14. I'm indifferent on this one

I don't think its a big deal where they hold this convention. North Carolina seems as good as any other place.

[mmonk]

15. No because the NC GOP would have another victory.

Hate need not be rewarded twice.

[maddezmom]

22. +1000

[SidDithers]

18. No. See post #2...nt

Sid

[mmonk]

32. +1

[LonePirate]

19. Yes! We need to stand up to the bigotry and punish/shame the bigots in this country

We need to stop being nice and start playing hardball like the other side does.

[scheming daemons]

21. No. Too late.

The logistics are such that it can't be moved now

[quinnox]

23. wow, deadlocked at 49-49

and I'm the one abstention, this is the closest poll I've seen since Du 3 went online.

[Bruce Wayne]

24. No, this is a chance to set the Tarheels right. This is a chance to start a dialog.

We can show displeasure short of a boycott. I'd like to use the convention as a chance to show the country how harmless and how inevitable marriage equality truly is.

Anyway, logistically speaking, boycotts work on small targets, not on whole states.

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Do you have nay idea how long it takes to set up an event of this size?

[Zorra]

34. Adaptability. It's the key to the long term survival of a species. nt

[Renew Deal]

26. I'm not sure that's feasible at this point.

[Brickbat]

28. Pass: It never should have been there in the first place.

[FarLeftFist]

29. CHARLOTTE NC VOTED AGAINST

[99Forever]

30. Not like the PTB give a crap ...

... about our opinion anyway. Many of us objected when the decision to hold the convention in that anti-Union redneck, backwoods, place to begin with and were promptly dismissed, belittled, and ignored. WTG, you've locked yourself into giving a huge financial boost to a place that HATES people who have supported you for decades.

And the tone deafness continues.

[Eliz1377]

31. National Convention in NC

Just remember that all America is a free speech zone. Make sure demonstrations are not confined away from high visibility and that demonstrators are not hassled or attacked by police. We don't need a repeat of the DNC military police action 4 years ago.

[Zorra]

33. So sad. The results of this poll would be a whole lot different if

North Carolina had just voted in a constitutional amendment to keep it illegal for white people to marry.

No one here would have voted no. Everyone would be outraged at this heinous moral injustice, that another state legislated that white people were not allowed to marry.

Everyone that voted no in this poll may want to examine their conscience and motivations for this action.

You may not be the compassionate, progressive person you believe yourself to be.

It's very simple:

Not allowing someone to marry because the person they love is of the same gender/sex, is no different whatsoever from not allowing someone to marry because of the color of their skin.

Not allowing someone to marry because the person they love of is of the same gender/sex, is no different whatsoever from not allowing someone to marry because of the color of their skin.

If the DNC holds this convention in North Carolina, it will be a grievous insult to the GLBT community, and a hard cold slap in the face to every decent human being who believes in justice, and supports equal human rights for all.

Because it's for damn sure that if North Carolina had just voted to continue to keep whites, or blacks, from being able to marry, the Convention would already have already been moved to some place that did not actively persecute whites, or blacks, whatever.

[mmonk]

37. Unfortunately, many AA churches led the way for this amendment.

We could not hold the progressive coalition together. Another thing is the vote turnout was lite due not being a general election. We have over 6 million registered voters. This was all calculated.

[Zorra]

41. Understood. Still, human rights were at stake.

You'd think a few more of those 6 million voters would have stepped up and stood up for equal human rights for all.

Apparently, many of those 6 million voters stayed home, because they did not believe that equal rights for all were important enough to bother to get off the couch and vote for.

“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
-- Elie Wiesel

That said, thank you so much, mmonk, for your efforts in NC on behalf of human rights.

[mmonk]

42. I agree with you.

I intend to shame NC voters and activists into action. Freedom is not a spectator sport. There are always those that oppose it, even when they don't realize it.

[Bake]

45. Apparently they don't care about anybody else's civil rights but their own.

Just sayin'.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Bake

[DevonRex]

56. That's uncalled for. Seriously. nt

[Bake]

59. What's uncalled for is AA churches being callous to the civil rights of others.

Hell, ANY churches, for that matter.

Bake

[Chan790]

77. No, it's not at-all. I'm all for shaming enemies of equality.

We're gearing up for the same fight here in MD as opponents of marriage-equality attempt to get a repeal referendum on the ballot for November...and it's not the racist bigoted GOP assholes (MD has few and they're all confined to small areas of W.MD and the peninsula for the most part.) leading the way on the threat of repeal of our new marriage-equality law.

It's churchgoing African-Americans; a bastion of liberal activism. I hope they feel great shame. The rest of the broad base of Democrats and liberals stood up for them against Jim Crow and anti-miscegenation laws 50 years ago because it was the right thing to do, sometimes at great cost and peril. It's time to repay that by standing up for equality in their own stead instead of leading the charge to oppress others.

[DevonRex]

55. Please do NOT start a race war here on this issue.

The amendment did not pass because of black voters.

[Chan790]

78. MD's repeal might. n/t

[xchrom]

35. yes. nt

[Little Star]

36. Wish it were never in NC but it would be a bad move to..

try and move it now.

[ctaylors6]

38. I voted YES. If Obama had

the courage to stand for gay marriage, I'd feel differently. To me, it just feels like a huge slap in the face to have his re-election convention in NC. He cares more about polls and votes than he does about doing the right thing. Screw political expedience and the idea of needing to get re-elected before he can do anything to support gay marriage.

If I knew he'd be standing for gay marriage in NC a few months after this vote, I'd be cheering for the convention to be in NC.

[AngryAmish]

39. They need to be punished.

[ibegurpard]

82. this isn't going to punish the people who voted for the amendment.

I would guess that they would prefer to see the Democratic convention move as well. Have it right in their living room as scheduled. I'm starting to get a little tired of retreating to a decreasing number of liberal enclaves and leaving everything else to the repukes. Playing defense means you get worn down eventually.

[edhopper]

40. It was a mistake to have it there in the first place nt

[randome]

43. I voted 'Yes' but it's not going to do any good to move the convention...

...if the Committee never takes a stand on the issue.

[earthside]

44. It never should have been chosen in the first place.

Just because of this kind of thing -- it is North Carolina.

But it was obviously an Obama campaign political decision to do whatever could be done to capture this state's electoral votes again in 2012.

However, it cannot be moved; it is too late for an event this massive.

That all being said, I also think that some folks trying to make an issue out of moving the convention may suffer some backlash ... I'm sensing some gay marriage fatigue setting in even amongst liberals and progressives.

[julian09]

51. Didn't Billy Graham take out massive ads for the ammendment?

and the vote being held on republican primary election day. Were there any other reasons for dems to show up at the polls? If not, the ammendment vote should have been held in Nov. I know the're Gop gays as well but they are the minority of a minority. Not much chance of defeating ammendment with that senario. NC denying gays, their civil rights is not a small thing. Most here will not be affected but for those who will, I'm sure they won't be pleased with having
convention held there. NC against unions and civil unions is rewarded for passing and creating another class of citizen.

[patrice]

47. I enthusiastically signed the petition, but I don't like your shit stirring poll. Pass. nt

[Zorra]

49. Shit that doesn't get stirred when you flush

inevitably stinks up the house.

[patrice]

50. What is shit and ain't shit is a little difficult to determine in this environment. BUT

People talking about what the Democrats COULD do in this situation at this time is bullshit.

Too much on the table.

Too much that will be determined ONLY by the outcomes in November.

Pretending that we know enough about ALL of that to punish Democrats for our imaginings about what they "could" do is so very dangerous that, at least to me, it looks extremely, I mean EXTREMELY suspect.

You're NOT going to get anything out of a situation in which you demand certain things AND pull the rug out from under those from whom you are demanding them at the same time.

................................

And, even though I did sign the petition the minute I saw it, to be honest, were it I making the decisions, I'd fucking LOVE, in the spirit of OWS, to march into that state with my Democratic convention and invite EVERY one of all of the issues that these fuckers hate and put on the biggest splashiest funnest most positive party possible FEATURING THE ISSUES, especially the hottest issues, iow, I'd take it to them and rub their own hate in their own faces in it in their own territory.

[Zorra]

61. There's always been too much on the table when it comes to LGBT rights.

People said the same things to me/us before the election of 2008. STFU and wait until after the election. You'll get your rights for sure then, yessirrreee bob you will, you can take that to the bank!!!

We had a huge Democratic majority in the House and Senate, and a Democratic President. Our basic human rights should have been the main course on the table right then and there. Instead, Democrats did not act, and basically, any chance for equality was squandered, and then lost, after the GOP took the House in 2010.

And now, here I am, being told to sit down, STFU, and wait once again?

Lovely. Just lovely.

Same shit, different day.

And what's this all about?

"it looks extremely, I mean EXTREMELY suspect"

Suspect? Because I think it might be a good thing for Democrats to shun and boycott North Carolina, and send a huge symbolic message that there is absolutely zero fucking tolerance for institutionalized bigotry, hatred and inequality, I should be suspected of being a troll because I believe this?

That appears to be some really serious FUD bullshit directed at me and much of the LGBT community as well, and we will not be silenced in the face of threats or bullying..

Very insulting. So basically every LGBT poster at DU is now a suspected troll in your estimation, because we believe that we should have had our basic human rights yesterday, rights that you have had all your life, is that what you are trying to say? We need to STFU, and not question, nor advise, the Democratic Party, or risk another LGBT purge, is that it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113711690

For pete's sake, patrice, please, get a grip, FGS.

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. A right delayed is a right denied. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: - 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.'

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood.

(The preceding 3 paragraphs are completely comprised of combined direct quotes of MLK)

[patrice]

63. There's too much on the table to succeed by means of divide & conquer . . . AND

[patrice]

64. Single-issue Identity Politics = States' Rights. "Let's get ours, screw everyone who isn't us."

[Zorra]

68. Rosa will never again move to the back of the bus. End of story. nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11373130

[patrice]

70. We are in agreement about that. These questions are about what the best way

possible is to facilitate the means by which as many LGBTQ become Rosa as possible, with as many Heteros as possible behind them, as in backing them up, in that bus. That should be our priority. There are things that work and there are things that don't work and there are things that WILL destroy that and Demanding that absolutely everyone conform to politically correct questions will weaken the movement, when what it needs most are people who CAN build ground in that front seat effectively.

One thing I have noticed is that it would probably help if a few more people of all sexual persuasions would START with questions and FOLLOW-UP with more questions related to previous questions and keep on working on that instead of beginning by assuming the worst possible explanations for things and freaking out about that and making accusations ON BOTH SIDES of the sexual divide.

[Zorra]

71. History shows that forcing the issue is the most effective method of attaining

civil rights for oppressed minorities.

Our time has come. We're done with apologists.

Denying the right of people of the same sex to marry is not in any way different than denying the right of someone to marry because of the color of their skin

I assume you are white. How would you feel if someone denied you the right to marry simply because of the light color of your skin? I guarantee, you'd be outraged.

It is not logical, reasonable, ethical, or moral. It is outright bigotry, it is wrong, and it needs to stop immediately.

Take some time to really try to feel what it is like to walk in our shoes. You will start singing a different tune if you ever really get it.

Making continuous just demands for just action, unrelenting pressure, not taking no for an answer, and creating as much tension as possible, is how deserved equality is achieved.

Sitting down and shutting up leads only to more sitting down and shutting up. Bigots will never simply hand over our rights to us if we ask them nicely. They have never done this for anyone.

I'm a Democrat, and I expect the Democratic Party to prioritize and unrelentingly work to obtain for me legal recognition and protection of my rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that I have been naturally endowed with by my creator. No excuses. A political party is no damn good at all if it does not work to attain, protect, and maintain the just rights of its members.

And if we have to continually kick their ass until they finally do it, then so be it, but this thing is going to get done, and we're never going away.

We will give a whole new meaning to the phrase "pain in the ass" until we get our rights.

[patrice]

72. That's an acceptable premise amongst free people. Free includes the right to choose what one is

willing to give in exchange for something else.

Assuming that what will in actual fact be achieved, how much of a right? for how many? to what effect?, will be worth *W*H*A*T*E*V*E*R* anyone ends up suffering in that struggle mitigates against the objective, people's rights.

If everyone doesn't have the right to make these choices, no one has a right to these choices and what we are really talking about, whatever right is at stake, is not a right at all, but a privilege, which will require maintenance by some form of coercion, which will damage what we assume is the purpose of pursuing people's rights in the first place.

[Zorra]

76. I'm sorry. I don't believe I understand what you are saying.

Because what I think you said would be thoughtlessly elitist.

Some Democrats, circa 1960:

"If we permit blacks the privilege of equality, then we'll (gasp) lose the southern Democrats! Damn those uppity blacks for thinking they have the right to be equal! They are endangering us with their foolish demands!"

I don't think, believe, or act in that manner. If you do, then that's your really bad dog; you bought it, and you own it. Careful...it costs a fortune to feed, and it bites. And the bites often cause serious chronic infections.


As a legal adult, I do not consider the ability to have my marriage legally recognized as a privilege, nor do I view my right to maintain employment regardless of my sexual/gender orientation as a privilege.

These would be privileges in a monarchy, or a dictatorship. But they are rights in any system resembling a democracy.

[Chan790]

79. You deserve a round of applause.

I'm fully in agreement with you. The time is now. No more delays, no more demands that you STFU for the greater good.

A right delayed is a right denied.

[patrice]

75. The nobility of the people with MLK was that despite oppression they CHOSE the consequences upon

themselves of their struggle for their rights.

Though oppressed, they were Free and no one in their movement violated that freedom by disrespecting their autonomous choices.

[stevenleser]

48. Pass: It is about 9 months too late to move the convention. But I will say this...

I am going to be speaking at an event at the convention and I will devote a large percentage of my speech to the idea that we need to adopt equality and gay marriage as a convention plank.

[Better Believe It]

80. Will you also be speaking in support of an Executive Order banning job discrimination ....

against LGBT people if President Obama has not signed one by the time the convention begins?

[stevenleser]

83. I haven't started to write down the specifics of the speech but I love what you just wrote.

I will make it a part of my speech!

[Better Believe It]

85. I'm pleased you liked my suggestion. Here's a few more I hope you find are as helpful.

You could also appeal for the convention delegates to make the following central issues in the election campaigns of all Democratic candidates for federal office and the Democratic Party platform:

Call for substantial increase in the minimum wage.

Opposition to adopting new COLA formula which would decrease future Social Security payment increases and opposition to increasing the early Social Security retirement and full retirement ages.

Oppose any cuts in Medicare/Medicaid benefits.

I know the Democratic Party platform doesn't have much meaning since candidates are not required to abide by it but it wouldn't hurt to push those ideas at the convention and try to get candidates, including President Obama, to pledge support on those proposals.

[stevenleser]

86. More good stuff. Thanks again!

I will integrate that as the issues portion of my speech. The other half is the offering of the new political consulting group I am half owner of. It will be called: Democratic Spring Strategies

[slackmaster]

52. Pulling out at this late date would be cowardly and very expensive

I laugh at people who insist on boycotting entire states because of a disagreement over a single issue.

[julian09]

53. If you are denied the persuit of happiness and fairness, stay out of that state.

especially if that state is boycotting your rights. Is that NC's way of saying gays stay out.

[slackmaster]

60. I certainly don't agree with every restriction on freedom that my state legislature has imposed

But there's no way I'd move out of California because of them. Or stop drinking California wine.

[kiranon]

54. Get out of contract on grounds not safe for delegates or some delegates will

not be permitted accommodations/respect/protection under the law due to a change in the law. Have the convention in Las Vegas - they are having hard times and probably have the space and would appreciate the President sending some good news their way.

[julian09]

58. Should outlaw tobacco and legalize MMJ

[RZM]

57. This reminds me of Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and his Confederate flags comment

That's why I'm voting no. I think Dean's point was that Democrats shouldn't concede any ground to Republicans, even in places where Republicans are strong or social conservatism is king. Pulling the convention out of NC would give the opposite impression. It would send a message that the DNC isn't all that interested in the south and that if the people are going to do something like vote in amendment one, the Republicans can have them.

That's the opposite of what Dean intended. I think the subtle message of the Confederate flags comment was: 'There are a lot of people out there who hold beliefs that you will find abhorrent. But if we're going to win, we have to get some of them. And that's not impossible, because while those people won't agree with you on everything, you might be able to convince them to come around to the Democratic party on other issues.'

[cynatnite]

65. IMO, moving it would be letting them win. n/t

[marions ghost]

67. exactly!

[marlakay]

74. I never thought it should be there

They were pandering to win the state again. To have in B of A site, in a non union state that is backwards against civil rights doesn't stand for what most of us dems stand for.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

81. Gee, look at all the gay DUers saying they should move the convention...

And look at all the BOGers saying they shouldn't...

[Jennicut]

84. No way. That would look like Dems are afraid to confront those in NC that are bigots.

I would go and let people at the DNC espouse their views for gay rights. It would be like giving the bigots the finger, so to speak. Leaving an entire state would not do any good at all. Dems should not be afraid of confrontation.