Where does HRC stand on employees being fired and then training their H-1B replacements?

[prayin4rain]

The SCE outsourcing "is one more case, in a long line of them, of injustice where American workers are being replaced by H-1Bs," said Ron Hira, a public policy professor at Howard University, and a researcher on offshore outsourcing. "Adding to the injustice, American workers are being forced to do 'knowledge transfer,' an ugly euphemism for being forced to train their foreign replacements. Americans should be outraged that most of our politicians have sat idly by while outsourcing firms have hijacked the guest worker programs."

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html

Researchers at the labor federation found that Walmart has been submitting a growing number of applications for H-1B visas with the federal government. Such visas let U.S. companies employ foreign workers here temporarily, often in high-tech capacities and at lower wages than their American counterparts would typically fetch.

According to the research paper, Walmart filed 1,800 petitions for H-1B visas over the last eight years, with the annual number increasing from 79 in 2007 up to 513 in 2014. Over the same period, offshore outsourcing firms have filed nearly 15,000 such petitions for work in Bentonville, Arkansas, Walmart's corporate home. That includes companies such as Infosys and Cognizant, IT service firms that are among the top H-1B users.

FULL ARTICLE:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6987200

A friend of mine works in IT and a company he used to work for just did this.


SIGN PETITION: http://wh.gov/iKkUM


Stop I-Squared Act and the Displacement of 300,000 American IT Jobs per Year

Provide your support AGAINST the bi-partisan Immigration Innovation Act of 2015' [also known as "I-Squared Act of 2015"] introduced by Sen. Orrin Hatch and the continued displacement of the American Information Technology worker through the process of "in-sourcing". The I-Squared Act will allow for 300,000 H1-B immigrant workers per year to enter the country to replace currently working American's in the Information Technology industry and send the profits of doing so to foreign companies sponsoring these workers.

Action Needed: Mandate the Secretary of Labor to investigate the gross misuse of the H1-B program/stop those in violation, Presidential Veto the I-Squared Act, legislation for financial penalties to companies abusing the H1-B program/change the immigrant worker programs

[randome]

1. I want to know which side of the ice cream cone she sides with -vanilla or chocolate?

We have 18 months before the election, for Christ's sake!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[libdem4life]

7. These are not, excuse the pun, Random Questions...She'll let you know just as soon as she decides to

put her moistened finger in the air, while "listening". And as to the 18 month thingy...Campaigns are being set up, people employed, positions staked out, potential candidates deciding, money raised. Just because we're on DU doesn't mean we need to stand in line and wait for the official "GO" gunfire until everything is pretty much set in concrete.

BTW, I love both chocolate and vanilla...I'll take both...dipped, if possible...then I won't know the difference until I bit into it.

[leftofcool]

8. I hear she prefers strawberry to vanilla but you know, flip flopping and all that.

[prayin4rain]

21. I don't get it. Are you saying who cares what HRC thinks

about people being fired so that H-1B workers can take their jobs? Certain people in the government are looking to expand this program, despite the fact that it's already being abused. H-1B visas are meant for jobs that an American cannot do. So, replacing workers by the thousands with H-1B workers is a big deal in my opinion.

[BrotherIvan]

55. Because people losing their entire career is just like picking ice cream

It doesn't matter how many people LOSE as long as your candidate wins! Amirite?

[still_one]

2. You do know the requirements for H1-B. Don't you?

[prayin4rain]

3. I do. And they're obviously not being adhered to. n/t

[still_one]

4. That is an entirely different issue

http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupation/understanding-h-1b-requirements

[prayin4rain]

6. What HRC thinks of the requirements not being adhered to is the point of the thread.

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr/09/us-senators-seek-investigation-into-use-of-visa/

[still_one]

11. I have no idea. My point was that implicitly off shoring is much more

damaging to our labor market

Every so often you do read stories of employers getting caught not abiding to the h1b rules, but the enforcement and adherence is the weakess part of the link, no question about it

[metalbot]

27. The problem is that they ARE being adhered to

If I am a large corporation, I cannot fire a worker and replace them by hiring an H1-B.

However, nothing prevents me from firing someone, and then having another company fill that position as a contractor.

That's what's happening with companies like Infosys, who low bid IT contracting jobs, and then use H1-B labor to fill the positions, because they can't hire enough American workers for cheap enough. But they do have enough low paid American workers that they can demonstrate in court that they aren't underpaying their H1-B imports.

The regulations are being adhered to, but with the completely wrong result. You could completely shut down companies like Infosys by not allowing H1-B's for contract positions, but still fill the gap for a company that wants to bring in a talented engineer for work on a software product.

An alternative would be to eliminate the "lottery" system of H1-B applications, and simply grant them in order based on the pay that the H1-B's will get. Right now, H1-B is pure lottery system - X slots, Y applicants, pick X of Y at random. If you gave out the H1-B's only to the highest paid applicants, then that reduces the incentive to use the H1-B purely as a system of controlling costs.

[prayin4rain]

29. Makes sense, thanks! n/t

[NCTraveler]

5. She thinks corporations can save money by cutting back on their training.

I think I read that somewhere here.

[Hoyt]

9. File a complaint with the US Department of Labor if that occurs.

Do it for yourself and others that come after you.


http://www.dol.gov/whd/forms/wh-4.pdf

http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

[Human101948]

28. Do you seriously think that anything will come of filling out those forms?

I don't think so.

[Hoyt]

30. Yes I do, if one has a real case. If an employee was fired and replaced by a lower wage person,

the DOL will definitely go after them. The employer would likely try to show the employee was going to be fired anyway. But hiring a lower paid worker makes that tougher.

The employer had to fill out forms to get an H1B employee, and that will show where there are conflicts too.

[prayin4rain]

31. Like metalbot pointed out, they are firing people and

not "filling their position". Instead, they are hiring H-1B contractors to do the exact same job, including having the fired employees train their contractor replacement. So, technically, the companies are following the letter of the law.

[Hoyt]

32. Good point. For the employer to save money, the H1B employee for the consulting

firm would have to be paid significantly less than the "prevailing wage." If that's the case, the very first block on the DOL form is to report that violation.

I agree a form isn't likely to get immediate action, but I'd darn sure file a complaint.

I might support the TPP as I think/hope it will end up, but screwing with good employees as discussed in this thread should carry stiff, rapid penalties for instant hr company and jerks who conspire to break the law.

[treestar]

37. Yes I've suggested that before

They never explain why these violations are not pursued. That is what the DOL is there for. If some employer violated the wage and hour laws, they would go and file.

It's their livelihood, so why would they not?

They just go into extreme paranoia that the government does not enforce this law and hands out H-1Bs with no requirements and no cost and is in on the conspiracy. Everyone in that section of the DOL.

[prayin4rain]

44. DOL explains why they let companies fire employees and replace with

H-1B contractors.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2914840/it-outsourcing/labor-department-says-it-cant-investigate-so-cal-edisons-h-1b-use.html

[NYC_SKP]

10. She practically invented it. “Outsourcing will continue,” Mrs. Clinton said in New Delhi.

I hope that the Berkeley Daily Planet isn't viewed by jurors as a right wing source.

... Newly released White House records demonstrate that Clinton lied about NAFTA. (See “Clinton Lie Kills Her Credibility on Trade Policy,” John Nichols, Common Dreams, March 22.) NAFTA, however, is but a single thread in a web of deception regarding globalization and free trade. Clinton is lying not only about NAFTA, but about outsourcing as well. And the evidence comes, not from Obama, but from official records, video tapes, quotations and recordings of Clinton speeches abroad.

Consider this. In 2005 Sen. Clinton visited New Delhi, India, (“far, far from our shores”), where she met wealthy business leaders, venture capitalists eager for U.S. investment. A few years prior to her visit, Enron gained a foothold in India’s economy. Enron uprooted local communities, fleeced the public coffers, then pulled out of India with the profits of unregulated greed.

In a speech promoting globalization and free trade, here is what Sen. Clinton said in New Delhi: “There is no way you can legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue....We are not against all outsourcing, we are not in favor of putting up fences.”

The India Review, a publication of the embassy of India, commented April 1, 2005: “Senator Clinton allayed apprehension in India that there would be a ban on outsourcing.”

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-03-25/article/29569?headline=Commentary-Hillary-Clinton-Lied-About-Outsourcing-Too--By-Paul-Rockwell

Dang, the more I'm challenged to prove my assertions, the more legitimate proof emerges that makes the case that Clinton is disqualified to lead the Democratic Party.

[prayin4rain]

14. Yeah, that's a little depressing. n/t

[quickesst]

12. somehow....

I just cannot muster any sympathy. I am a retired blue collar construction worker who lost more than one job to non American citizens who worked for lower wages, but if I even mentioned that I believed it was not right, or as the opportunity article suggests, an "injustice", I was just being racist against "poor Brown people who were just trying to make a better life for their families." Many here on du's words, not mine. Only difference I see is the legality and a different continent.

[OKNancy]

15. glad you said it. Some on the left don't care about the blue collar workers.

The guest worker thing is pretty small in numbers compared to what construction experienced.
But boy do they howl at this white-collar problem. Poor things. Their salary gets lowered from $80,000 to $60,000.

[prayin4rain]

16. My father was/is a blue collar worker, so I can understand

your frustration. But, they sold outsourcing blue collar jobs with the idea that we would all have the "higher skill" jobs. Now they're just importing people to do those jobs for lower wages.

You're right though, this is what happens when we give an inch and when we don't care about things that don't directly affect our circle.

[Vincardog]

18. no my salary got lowered from $35/hr to ZERO

[OKNancy]

19. and so was the house painter's and the gardener's

and the other other construction workers. It's all about whose ox is being gored.

[Vincardog]

20. I never said the painter's and the gardener's and the other other construction workers weren't

in need of protection. This us vs ourselves discussion is just what the Monied class wants.

[quickesst]

23. Thanks...

People like you and what you have to give keeps me coming back every day.

[Marr]

41. And some don't give a shit about workers period, no matter what color their collar is.

They just like to hide behind blue collar workers when arguing that that H1B visas are no big deal-- as if they don't cheer for the same neoliberal con-men who sold the blue collar jobs.

[frylock]

22. your beef is with the people that hire undocumented workers for shit wages

[quickesst]

24. And...

....who exactly is your beef with? Employers? The gubment? Are employers being forced to hire hb1 workers? Maybe I have it wrong. Is it a class thing? Maybe I need to have the difference in white collar and blue collar worth explained to me.

[frylock]

26. corporations are lobbying congress to allow them to hire more H1B..

so my beef is with both.

[quickesst]

36. mine was too

Like I said before, legality and continent, the only differences.

[frylock]

45. i'm having a difficult time understanding your point..

spell it out for me.

[prayin4rain]

25. Yep, now the government is finding ways to document

"highly skilled" workers for shit wages so that those at the top can get bigger bonuses. I'm surprised it's not a bigger deal to people. I'm afraid it's one of those issues that no one will care about until it's completely and totally out of hand.

[Wilms]

13. You mean, the Senator from India?

^H ^I^B

[Vincardog]

17. Signatures: 4 of 4 Where are you people?

[napi21]

33. This kind of crap has been gong on for YEARS!

I was fired from MY job because I refused to hire an H1B because they were CHEAPER! I told the boss that wasn't fair to anyone. Not fair to the American because they were qualified for the job and being ignored, and not fair to the H1B worker because they would be deliberately underpaid. ALSO a business is SUPPOSED TO only hire an H1B after they have checked for a qualified employee and couldn't find any! Well, I got the approval to hire the American worker, but was fired a month later because of my position on this issue.

[prayin4rain]

34. It's crazy and they just keep upping the numbers. n/t

[Marr]

40. Yep-- I've seen it myself. /nt

[treestar]

35. Probably that those violations of the law should be

dealt with as the federal code provides.

[prayin4rain]

38. Like metalbot pointed out, they are firing people and

not "filling their position". Instead, they are hiring H-1B contractors to do the exact same job, including having the fired employees train their contractor replacement. So, technically, the companies are following the letter of the law while 300,000 workers a year are being insourced to replace the fired employees. Those at the top get bigger bonuses and it's all legal.

[treestar]

42. There's no point in doing that since the H has to be paid the prevailing wage

That is outsourcing that the company could do anyway and have them train other US citizens.

There are only so many H-1bs allowed to year and it's not worth going to the DOL to prove them if there is a US worker standing right there.

[prayin4rain]

43. Did you read the articles?

Here's another with links to studies.

http://www.fiercecio.com/story/new-study-says-h-1b-program-undercuts-us-tech-jobs/2015-05-13

[napi21]

54. Where the hell did you hear THAT?

They are ALWAYS paid less. I was the Accounting manager and I KNOW what everyone was earning. That was the ONLY reason for hiring them!

[Marr]

39. The people acting like this is unusual are even more out of touch than I thought they were.

Jesus Christ-- I assumed everyone understood this is pretty much the norm with H1B visa workers.

Some of you need to spend a lot less time shrieking that everything's great and a lot more time listening to people who actually work for a living.

[prayin4rain]

48. So, I'm assuming you signed the petition? n/t

[Marr]

49. I did. It didn't seem to reflect my signature in the count though.

Just fyi.

[prayin4rain]

50. You have to confirm your signature through your email. n/t

[Marr]

51. I did, maybe there's a delay.

Yep, now it's good.

[prayin4rain]

52. Awesome. Only 99,991 to go. haha n/t

[Marr]

53. lol, home stretch.

[BrotherIvan]

56. Oh hell yes

There is a lot of reality disconnect with the "reality-based community" here. Before I thought it was just fandom, but it truly is low information. LOW.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. The whole point of H1B visas, like the toleration of illegal immigration, is to drive down wages.

The actions of the elected officials make no sense unless and until you forget the myth that they're representing us.

Representing you is not why they're there. Your nominal purpose is to push the correct voting machine button every so often.

[prayin4rain]

47. And more and more, both buttons do the same thing. n/t

[CrispyQ]

57. Has happened twice in our family, once to me & last year to my husband.

Train your replacements or lose your severance package. That's usually the deal. Either way, though, you're out of work.

Not the Directors & VPs who make those decisions, however, Oh no, there will be no cheaper, Asian replacements for those positions. In fact, the company my husband worked for continued to hire new Directors & VPs while laying workers off.

This country is so fucked & so goes the rest of the world. I've lost all hope.