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Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
Thu Jun 4, 2015, 11:06 PM Jun 2015

Edward Snowden Op/Ed in NYT: 'The World Says No to Surveillance'

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/opinion/edward-snowden-the-world-says-no-to-surveillance.html

OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR

Edward Snowden: The World Says No to Surveillance

ADAM MAIDA
By EDWARD J. SNOWDEN
JUNE 4, 2015

Two years on, the difference is profound. In a single month, the N.S.A.’s invasive call-tracking program was declared unlawful by the courts and disowned by Congress. After a White House-appointed oversight board investigation found that this program had not stopped a single terrorist attack, even the president who once defended its propriety and criticized its disclosure has now ordered it terminated.

This is the power of an informed public.

Ending the mass surveillance of private phone calls under the Patriot Act is a historic victory for the rights of every citizen, but it is only the latest product of a change in global awareness. Since 2013, institutions across Europe have ruled similar laws and operations illegal and imposed new restrictions on future activities. The United Nations declared mass surveillance an unambiguous violation of human rights. In Latin America, the efforts of citizens in Brazil led to the Marco Civil, an Internet Bill of Rights. Recognizing the critical role of informed citizens in correcting the excesses of government, the Council of Europe called for new laws to protect whistle-blowers.

- snip -

At the turning of the millennium, few imagined that citizens of developed democracies would soon be required to defend the concept of an open society against their own leaders.

Yet the balance of power is beginning to shift. We are witnessing the emergence of a post-terror generation, one that rejects a worldview defined by a singular tragedy. For the first time since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, we see the outline of a politics that turns away from reaction and fear in favor of resilience and reason. With each court victory, with every change in the law, we demonstrate facts are more convincing than fear. As a society, we rediscover that the value of a right is not in what it hides, but in what it protects.

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Edward Snowden Op/Ed in NYT: 'The World Says No to Surveillance' (Original Post) Hissyspit Jun 2015 OP
Kick Hekate Jun 2015 #1
The winds of change are blowing! We are coming out of a truly dark period in our history, at last. sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #2
Well that is a hopeful outlook, and I hope you are right. zeemike Jun 2015 #5
K&R! n/t markpkessinger Jun 2015 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Jun 2015 #4
Clapper, Bush loyalist, Corporate tool, V Snowden, Whistle Blower who stood up against Bush sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #7
K&R. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #6
Edward Snowden: patriot and hero. Deserves a full pardon and a Medal of Freedom. chimpymustgo Jun 2015 #8
+10 840high Jun 2015 #41
K&R nt riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #9
K & R LiberalLovinLug Jun 2015 #10
K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2015 #11
I recall John Kerry badmouthing him when he first went to Russia 90-percent Jun 2015 #12
Hey! Don't see you around often these days JonLP24 Jun 2015 #21
What a nice thing to say 90-percent Jun 2015 #28
You were very kind to me several years ago saying many nice things JonLP24 Jun 2015 #29
Nothing has changed! Cryptoad Jun 2015 #13
Double plus untrue Fumesucker Jun 2015 #22
Snowden is getting more and more ridiculous.. okojo Jun 2015 #14
He reported a pattern and practice of ongoing crimes. Hero;) grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #18
And what about any release of information on legitimate intelligence efforts? Do we ignore that? cstanleytech Jun 2015 #35
He is also meeting with foreign leaders and discussing Adrahil Jun 2015 #37
If our foriegn intellegence agents are fostering illegal wars through false grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #39
He's talking about survelliance effrts. He didnt work for the CIA Adrahil Jun 2015 #40
The courts ruled the program is illegal JonLP24 Jun 2015 #23
Frankly I never understood the need for the database since the phone companies already store that cstanleytech Jun 2015 #36
...said Snowden, the same day China hacks the OPM... Blue_Tires Jun 2015 #15
Is that Snowdens's fault? neverforget Jun 2015 #16
Hardly. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #32
Well MAYBE if we didn't let China manufacture all of our computer chips, maybe if we grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #17
Nice. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #31
So? Hissyspit Jun 2015 #19
I haven't heard anything about the hack JonLP24 Jun 2015 #24
Had a similar thought. joshcryer Jun 2015 #27
thanks to him Russian is the enemy he lives there thus the enemy PatrynXX Jun 2015 #20
Gave them the OK to hack us? JonLP24 Jun 2015 #25
Beautifully phrased. nilesobek Jun 2015 #26
No nation should be trusted with all the personal information world wide. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #30
He is a traitor. stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #33
Well, you've convinced me! Hissyspit Jun 2015 #38
What Snowden saw polynomial Jun 2015 #34
The anti-Snowden replies to this OP are comically absurd. marmar Jun 2015 #42
+1 navarth Jun 2015 #43

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
5. Well that is a hopeful outlook, and I hope you are right.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:20 AM
Jun 2015

And I hope I live to see it...but doubt hangs over me like a cloud.

Response to Hissyspit (Original post)

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
7. Clapper, Bush loyalist, Corporate tool, V Snowden, Whistle Blower who stood up against Bush
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:01 AM
Jun 2015

policies risking everything to inform the people of what their government was up to?

That's an easy choice.

chimpymustgo

(12,774 posts)
8. Edward Snowden: patriot and hero. Deserves a full pardon and a Medal of Freedom.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:38 AM
Jun 2015

A rare combination of brilliance, honesty and courage.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,174 posts)
10. K & R
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:54 PM
Jun 2015

I have no patience for those that belittle him on a personal level, and attack him as what he revealed was:

A. unimportant (we already knew)

B. way too important (we shouldn't be seeing what the government doesn't want us to see)

Both at the same time.

To me its just as ignorant as spouting that Obama is somehow a fascist and a communist at the same time.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
12. I recall John Kerry badmouthing him when he first went to Russia
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:22 PM
Jun 2015

something like: "you little coward. If you are a Patriot you will come back to America and subject yourself to our criminal justice system. You will get a fair trial before the US government forces you to spend the rest of your life in solitary confinement."

The Obama administration has prosecuted more whistle blowers than all previous administrations combined! Better to be banished from your country of origin, but still free, instead of enduring the corrupt system of our utterly unjust and draconian legal system.

But, we have two America's now and Edward is not a member of the "PTB club" and won't get a soft sentence like Gen. Petreaus. They'll dungeon him like Chelsea Manning or the innocents in Guantanamo that have been imprisoned without charge for over ten years.

Between this and Bernie our national conversation is now vectoring towards important things like issues and whether we still want to at least pretend America is still a Democracy.


-90% Jimmy

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
21. Hey! Don't see you around often these days
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:13 PM
Jun 2015

but glad to see you around -- appreciate your posts & thoughts

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
28. What a nice thing to say
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:46 PM
Jun 2015

Thank you, JonLP24. I'm just one strident liberal doing my soldiering on DU to "catapult the propaganda."

People like you make DU THE BEST progressive liberal cyber communities on the planet!

So many people vilified Snowden. And now it appears he is playing a KEY ROLE in restoring our Democracy! Thank God for the whistle blowers willing to sacrifice and disrupt their entire lives and future in the name of preserving the best intentions of our Founding Fathers and the Democracy they so cherished!

His critics seem to prefer a totalitarian police state. Including Kerry, who is oblivious to Snowden's contributions for the betterment of our Democracy, and actually doesn't seem to like or understand democracy very much. Like most members of the big PTB CLUB we ain't in!

It will be interesting to review all the other vilifications of Snowden a year or two from now. There will be a lot of politicians that should be embarrassed to be on the wrong side of history, if they were capable of shame.

Here's a link to a Gov. Jesse interview with John Kiriakou, the only person we ever prosecuted for official American torture. Naturally, he wasn't prosecuted for doing it, he was prosecuted for TALKING ABOUT IT, and in the video, it sounds like GWB was lying to make John the FALL GUY for the entire program. How ridiculous. We all know Lyndie England was the evil genius behind all Iraq War torture programs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017270155

-90% Jimmy


-90% Jimmy

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
29. You were very kind to me several years ago saying many nice things
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:57 PM
Jun 2015

and appreciated you showed an interest in the TCN issue the first time I mentioned it here but outside of it there is a lack of concern but remember the outrage over the World Cup workers but the Department of Defense doing the same thing (in a war zone) doesn't quite rate. For me it is different when you get to know a poor Nepali or others on a personal level that is experiencing the exploitation and abuse.

You sent a very long PM that I enjoyed reading all of it -- (I think you started with your interest in Zappa, not his music but his views) that I had every intention of getting back to but settle and take the time that I kept putting off until DU3 but I was often conscience I didn't appreciate or value it -- just wanted to let you know I value your contributions and always a good sign to see you & others with similar views around here.

This was it if you don't remember
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4322511&mesg_id=4323442

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
22. Double plus untrue
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:14 PM
Jun 2015

The chocolate ration has been increased from five grams a week to fifteen grams a month.

So there...

okojo

(76 posts)
14. Snowden is getting more and more ridiculous..
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:16 PM
Jun 2015

The NSA still collects and listens to all phone calls going in and out of the US, besides every other communications from and out of the US.

I just see Edward Snowden more like Chance the Gardener in “Being There”, given some of the fantasies he has stated about his job history.. He also is stating this from a country that has not only no qualms in sucking up all data, but is trying to make it easier with their own Sailfish OS phones and network, (if they can pull it off)


Edward Snowden is not a traitor. He may have some quirky ideological motives, but he also violated his security clearance, took a huge amount of material, and no matter if he gave it to journalists or not, in Intelligence, the crime is opening the barn door and letting the horse out, no matter if the horse comes back to the barn, or a neighbor claims ownership to the horse..

cstanleytech

(26,298 posts)
35. And what about any release of information on legitimate intelligence efforts? Do we ignore that?
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jun 2015

For example there was the information he released about the US listening in on the German Chancellors call, that was information the public didnt need to know about.
Dont get me wrong, some of the stuff the public needed to be educated more about such as government being in bed with the phone companies (which really wasnt news since 1988 when Duncan Campbell wrote about it) but its an entirely different thing to provide information about the ongoing gathering of intelligence in other countries by the US.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
37. He is also meeting with foreign leaders and discussing
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jun 2015

U.S. Foreign intelligence efforts. Is that heroic too?

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
39. If our foriegn intellegence agents are fostering illegal wars through false
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 05:50 PM
Jun 2015

intel, creating hell-holes in the ME, torturing innocent people, bankrupting our treasury and needlessly killing our soldiers, then, yes, heroic.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
40. He's talking about survelliance effrts. He didnt work for the CIA
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 06:51 PM
Jun 2015

Some of Sniwden's fans will go toe any length to find some reason while everything he did was great. Even the shitty things.

Fuck him. I hope he stays in Russia forver if he's gonna do shit like that.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
23. The courts ruled the program is illegal
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jun 2015

there was McConnell desperately calling for a couple more months of continued surveillance like John Oliver compared it to like someone asking for more time when the SO is trying to dump him or her so the systemically collecting of it is or should be ended.

Don't know what fantasies you refer to or what Russia has to do with this or what they have no qualms with but considering who the NSA has performed hacks everywhere on all the countries or where ever such as civilian infrastructure -- the highest number of spies kicked out of Canada come from the US -- Canada? See we like to know what everybody is up to -- the DNA of UN diplomats who I'd hate to imagine why they want that.

The last paragraph is about the most reasonable of Snowden criticism, I ever read but using the J. Edgar Hoover act or not to mention the laws broke with the program the government loses the moral high ground. I'd add it would be like releasing the horse because the conditions of the barn were inhumane but the horse was brought back in with an improved barn but I see him as keeping Obama's promise of an open & transparent government.

cstanleytech

(26,298 posts)
36. Frankly I never understood the need for the database since the phone companies already store that
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:59 PM
Jun 2015

information themselves you would think they could just get a warrant then to get the companies to provide the records

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
17. Well MAYBE if we didn't let China manufacture all of our computer chips, maybe if we
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:34 PM
Jun 2015

brought manufacturing back home be exiting the costly trade agreements, maybe we would be less prone to Chinese cyber attacks.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
24. I haven't heard anything about the hack
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:36 PM
Jun 2015

but am about to research it but my question is how do we know its China or even who it is? If the hackers are skilled then it is incredible difficult to find out who exactly did the hack because they are excellent at covering their tracks & almost always use misdirection pointing the finger at the easy targets like the logic of the prison gangs in Blood in Blood Out. Unless they make a mistake or someone informs on them investigations go nowhere.

On edit -- China hacks the US government and we know its them already -- very suspicious, especially during the TPPA negotiations but either way what's the evidence?

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
20. thanks to him Russian is the enemy he lives there thus the enemy
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:10 PM
Jun 2015

also went to China gave them the OKAY to hack us. he must come back to face his crimes. He might have done a good thing but it's still a traitor and must face his actions. But since we can't charge Dick Cheney for massive war crimes I don't see this happening

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
25. Gave them the OK to hack us?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:40 PM
Jun 2015

Some of you really believe anything. Finding out who exactly performed a major hack, particularly if they're professionals is incredible difficult. Anyone who says they already know who did the hack is flat out lying and I know people here would rather doubt me but talk to experts. I swear, people will believe a lie but doubt the truth. I don't get it.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
26. Beautifully phrased.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jun 2015

Unfortunately being in Russia probably disqualifies him from running for office. Snowden would definitely get my vote. America is changing these days. No longer will we be manipulated by fear and the media.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
30. No nation should be trusted with all the personal information world wide.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:56 AM
Jun 2015

Especially after the Iraq War fiasco and all the questions surrounding 9/11.

polynomial

(750 posts)
34. What Snowden saw
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 08:14 AM
Jun 2015

Was not a natural social change, in history the passion for power is compelling to many if not addictive to the point of neurosis gone wild.

America is observing an incredible social government profiteering phenomena that is not being challenged especially with the Bush and Cheney administration.

This can be extrapolated back to WWII in that Grandpa Prescott Bush financed the Nazi war machine with American Banking business support.

These profiteering actions are just reiterated once more at this time in history with Iraq under a different blanket called ‘national secrets’ for security.

The Bush family still dealing in treachery connected to profiteering in military actions via the close business partnership with the wealthy Arab Bin Laden family.

Now with Cheney’s help and connection to business, terror, torture, secret jail assassination, puppet governments, and Islamic extremist uncertainty bringing a new insanity to profiteering and identity theft throughout the American business system.

Snowden is proof business and government systems at high levels are “breaking bad”, entangled with persons savvy in technology developing a conscience.

What Snowden deduced with a growing conscience, is that our government, complicit business, and even a conspiring Hollywood, supplemented with daily media news lies within a powerful history making contemporary social scheme to swindle Americans out of their tax dollars.

Now what Snowden’s treasonous action did show America an important right that was breached in liberty in law making with combined efforts actually distort the very Constitution that our elected officials are supposed to defend.

Now Metadata collection is unconstitutional especially through secret subcontracting business connected to powerful political and business people. The question is was this a goof or a scheme?

A good news media question for a round table discussion ‘was this actually sedition by the one percent ? ‘ likely will not happen because the media is key player in that sedition.

Rush Limbaugh being the Bull Horn of the Grand Master of right wing sedition, that is Cheney...and Halliburton and Cheney’s mercenaries armed in the fields or secret tech savvy government operatives right in today’s American government agencies all the way to the Supreme Court.

marmar

(77,081 posts)
42. The anti-Snowden replies to this OP are comically absurd.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:26 PM
Jun 2015

Talking about flinging crap to see if it sticks!

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