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selfdelete (Original Post) CoffeeCat Jun 2015 OP
I have no words. ScreamingMeemie Jun 2015 #1
Thank you... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #13
This is so beautifully put. peace13 Jun 2015 #2
Thank you Kim... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #14
Bless you RobertEarl Jun 2015 #3
Thank you... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #15
I agree that it is hard to believe that it is a coincidence that the cop who they went to StevieM Jun 2015 #4
selfdelete CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #17
your intuitive feelings are hopemountain Jun 2015 #47
Thank you for your kind words... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #72
... shenmue Jun 2015 #5
(((CoffeeCat))) Solly Mack Jun 2015 #6
Hugs to you (((Solly Mack))) CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #18
I can kind of relate to your story & thank you so much for sharing it. giftedgirl77 Jun 2015 #7
I'm glad you're OK now xfundy Jun 2015 #16
Thank you, it didn't get much better until I was about 30 giftedgirl77 Jun 2015 #19
Ignorant, bigoted, violent, wife beating, child beating, pedophilic families is Zorra Jun 2015 #8
I agree... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #21
Thank you for sharing your story. dem in texas Jun 2015 #9
Thank you so much... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #20
Oh damn, that was well put...... BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2015 #10
Thank you for sharing that stopwastingmymoney Jun 2015 #11
I'm glad that you survived too... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #12
Thank you stopwastingmymoney Jun 2015 #69
self delete--duplicate (nt) CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #83
Yes, it's been a long time now stopwastingmymoney Jun 2015 #88
A well written and very brave post. Paka Jun 2015 #22
I just saw clips of the Duggar girls being interviewed Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #23
thank you for sharing that with us renate Jun 2015 #24
Wow! Recommended. Duppers Jun 2015 #25
In a weird way you could say my family was an iceberg family too. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #26
You are a very strong person! CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #84
Thank you I feel guilty about getting away so much Kalidurga Jun 2015 #87
CoffeeCat, I can't begin to comprehend what Unknown Beatle Jun 2015 #27
Wow! malaise Jun 2015 #28
My iceberg family melted SoCalDem Jun 2015 #29
Thank you for sharing your story with us Fumesucker Jun 2015 #30
Incredible post ((((CoffeeCat)))) CrawlingChaos Jun 2015 #31
thank you cali Jun 2015 #32
Recognizing and ending the cycle of abuse Freddie Jun 2015 #33
another sign of how sick this country has become that the duggars are celebs and are propped up by KG Jun 2015 #34
Powerful. Javaman Jun 2015 #35
"Iceberg family" is such a perfect term riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #36
Holy hell, this is one of the most powerful stories I have read on DU. demmiblue Jun 2015 #37
Thanks for sharing. Xyzse Jun 2015 #38
Simply amazed by you. prayin4rain Jun 2015 #39
Thank you for bravely telling your story Dems to Win Jun 2015 #40
Oh my god... MynameisBlarney Jun 2015 #41
Wow. Thank you for sharing your story and your insight. Avalux Jun 2015 #42
Typing through my tears. Canoe52 Jun 2015 #43
Brilliant cp Jun 2015 #44
I am sorry for your experience but I am grateful that you shared it. DawgHouse Jun 2015 #45
This: chervilant Jun 2015 #46
It is so amazing that you were able to share this. TNNurse Jun 2015 #48
Peace tazkcmo Jun 2015 #49
Thanks for sharing. My best to you and all that suffer as you have/do. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #50
That you can write such a perfect and potent account DamnYankeeInHouston Jun 2015 #51
I'm sorry you had to endure this. Nobody should. Horse with no Name Jun 2015 #52
That 13 year old was a kid, too. Warpy Jun 2015 #53
Thank you so much Warpy... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #91
Oh CoffeeCat, so poignantly written. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #54
self delete--duplicate (nt) CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #90
... Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #92
And that bit "they were asleep" & "it was through their clothes" is most likely bullshit AnotherMother4Peace Jun 2015 #55
What an amazing story, CoffeeCat. Thank you SO much for sharing this pain and this dreadful burden calimary Jun 2015 #56
A wonderful post too stopwastingmymoney Jun 2015 #68
Thanks, sweetie. calimary Jun 2015 #70
delete CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #85
Thank you for bravely sharing with us. myrna minx Jun 2015 #57
Please keep talking. The Jungle 1 Jun 2015 #58
self delete--duplicate (nt) CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #81
Thank you. Was talking to my husband tonight about the problem I am seeing that has permeated glinda Jun 2015 #59
I am glad that you escaped your own... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #78
They are both spinning and protecting their craziness. America is in the trash can. glinda Jun 2015 #93
I know broken families--devastated by heroin or death, MisterP Jun 2015 #60
Powerful and extremely well written. 99Forever Jun 2015 #61
Thank you for writing that. byronius Jun 2015 #62
Against all odds, your breaking the abuse cycle is amazing, this should be shared, AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #63
I am completely blown away... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #76
Definitely....it helps for some in that they don't feel so alone with it all... AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #77
I am so very sorry LiberalElite Jun 2015 #64
"They are a victim factory...." Hekate Jun 2015 #65
CoffeeCat you are very brave ImBushed Jun 2015 #66
You bring up an interesting point... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author ImBushed Jun 2015 #94
My family...for a relatively short time .... Sheepshank Jun 2015 #67
self delete- CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #74
Iceberg Families EweWish Jun 2015 #71
Wow, what a kind post... CoffeeCat Jun 2015 #73
So emphathetically stated. blue neen Jun 2015 #79
...ending the cycle... blue neen Jun 2015 #80
WOW! wendylaroux Jun 2015 #82
I have no adequate words to express my sorrow for what you went through etherealtruth Jun 2015 #86
I'm not sure this is being blown up to be more than it really is JonLP24 Jun 2015 #89

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
13. Thank you...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:24 AM
Jun 2015

...for sympathizing.

I've always believed that it is important to share. Silence only helps the perps.

By sharing our experiences, we learn that we're not alone.


 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
2. This is so beautifully put.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:26 AM
Jun 2015

Thank you for sharing this, as hard as it was to do. I am so sorry that you had to endure this abuse. My heart goes out to you. I send you love and understanding. Peace and love, Kim

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
14. Thank you Kim...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:25 AM
Jun 2015

I've been massively triggered throughout this Duggar situation, and it feels nice to be met with understanding and kind words. Thank you so very much.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
3. Bless you
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:33 AM
Jun 2015

It takes a strong loving person to tell your story.

Exposing the Duggars for what they truly are is a good thing. Doing so may save much grief for many young people. Thanks, CoffeeCat

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
15. Thank you...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:31 AM
Jun 2015

For your positive comments.

I think the more people who understand just how messed up this family is--the more people will be intolerant of their continued lies and cover ups.

The Duggars cause more child abuse when they perpetuate such lies. By exposing the fact that families like these hide so much--it makes people more aware of the fact that their behavior is not harmless.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
4. I agree that it is hard to believe that it is a coincidence that the cop who they went to
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:33 AM
Jun 2015

just happened to be a child predator himself. It's possible....but it doesn't seem very probable.

I'm so sorry for all that you went through.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
47. your intuitive feelings are
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:41 PM
Jun 2015

very strong and likely they are correct.

considering all you have endured, thank you for sharing your story and perceptions. thank you for relating to us the truths about perverted dysfunctions in families. your desire to heal, years of therapy, your generosity of spirit, your innate wisdom, and understanding of your own experiences have strengthened you to present us with this powerful sharing.

siblings and parents do not usually encourage "therapy" for family members to heal the deep wounds. if a family member seeks therapy or reports, the risk is "betrayal" and shunning. though we may love our siblings and even our parents, an try to maintain some connection, the trust is gone. sadly, it is not unusual for family members unable to face the truth and seek help to choose to continue living the lies - because it seems easier.

even though denial may be a powerful tool for survival, the consequences and dynamics of lies perpetually influences generations of families. the only true healing is individual by individual with therapeutic help, the desire to heal and time.

one day at a time. my best to you, CoffeeCat, for happiness and freedom from the wounds - no matter how deep.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
72. Thank you for your kind words...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:59 PM
Jun 2015

…and I hope that somehow by sharing stories--others can heal too. Sometimes it's hard to forgive ourselves or feel that we deserved better. However, when we read someone else's pain--have compassion and understanding for them. Hopefully, some of that gets transferred back onto our own situations.

It's important for survivors to know that they are not alone.

Families like this have many, many ways of making the honest children feel like horrible people. It's important to let the stories out into the sunlight--so the reality-based community can comment and offer support. Often, there is no support in families like this.

You have an incredible grasp of denial and dysfunctional family dynamics. It's educated and informed people like you that help survivors of dysfunctional families--to feel not so alone.

Thank you again.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
18. Hugs to you (((Solly Mack)))
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:40 AM
Jun 2015

Thank you. I hope you are well.

I know this Duggar debacle had been rough on a lot of us.

Take care. 😃

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
7. I can kind of relate to your story & thank you so much for sharing it.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:44 AM
Jun 2015

My sister's & I are all within a year of each other in age. My mother got remarried to a man with a son when I was 5 (I'm the oldest). He is about 5 years older than me, his mother had committed suicide when he was 6. He began touching me when I was about 9, I remember him making my younger sister's stand naked in his room while he allowed his friends to come in & "check them out". He forced my youngest sister to drink his urine (I didn't find this out until 2012 when me & my middle sister were talking about it.

My mom & his dad divorced when I was about 12 but my stepbrother continued to stay with us part time & my mother had a tendency to just take off on the weekends & leave me to take care of my sister's. I ended up acting out getting into fights constantly & was kicked out of an entire school district by my freshman year. My parents were sure I was going to be dead or in jail by the time I turned 25 & they had no idea why I was so messed up. My youngest sister died of a drug overdose in 2009 at the age of 28, she left behind 3 children with 1 piece of shit for a father.

2 years ago I finally decided to try & explain to her why her daughter's were so fucked up early on. Her response to me was "god how I loved that man".

I have 2 amazing teenage son's & I know for certain that they saved my life. I've made peace with what had happened to me but I do keep tabs on that piece of shit & hope to hell he never crosses my path for the shit he did to my sister's.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
19. Thank you, it didn't get much better until I was about 30
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:42 AM
Jun 2015

& realized I didn't need to take shit from anybody anymore. My kid's and I are much better off & happier now without any toxicity in our lives.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
8. Ignorant, bigoted, violent, wife beating, child beating, pedophilic families is
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:45 AM
Jun 2015

exactly what the 1% wants for America.

It's what they want 'muricans to believe 'murica is all about. They's stupid, but good, "consumers"!

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
21. I agree...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:48 AM
Jun 2015

...and I think that abusers dog whistle to each other through horrible programming like Duck Dynasty, 19 Kids and Counting and Sister Wives.

By celebrating mysoginistic people and glorifying women with a victim mentality--they try to normalize this kind of dysfunction.

Abusers especially use shows like this to justify their own crimes. Good thing we have so many people in our society speaking out against these shows.

dem in texas

(2,674 posts)
9. Thank you for sharing your story.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:47 AM
Jun 2015

I know it was hard for you to write about this, but you are giving us insight into the family dynamics of the Duggar family and other families that live that way. My heart goes out to you for all you have suffered. You are a strong, brave person to overcome all the abuse you suffered.

God Bless You!

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
20. Thank you so much...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:43 AM
Jun 2015

...and you are right. There are many people out there who grew up in very dysfunctional families. It is more common than people realize.

By telling out stories, we learn that we're not alone and not to blame. So important.

stopwastingmymoney

(2,042 posts)
11. Thank you for sharing that
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:05 AM
Jun 2015

My story is different but similar, you would recognize my mother for the monster she is.

I too spent years in therapy, and I do feel very grateful and proud that I was able to become a reasonably healthy person as a result

So, be proud of yourself, it was grueling hard work but you came out the other side as someone capable of writing this op and attempting to educate others.

I'm proud of you

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
12. I'm glad that you survived too...
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:21 AM
Jun 2015

I believe that it is a huge victory to be able to tell your story and see the abuse and the abusers in true light.

I couldn't have told my story when I was 20. I was in such denial.

I'm sorry that your mom was so terrible, but it is empowering to name what she was. It's like handing the abuse back to them. We never get over it, but at least we can understand that we were not at fault and that something was terribly wrong with these people.

I appreciate your kindness. Best to you.

stopwastingmymoney

(2,042 posts)
69. Thank you
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:27 AM
Jun 2015

I only wish I could express myself as well as you do, writing is hard for me. I do remember feeling very relieved simply to learn the vocabulary I needed to 'name' it as you say. I do understand now and it really changed everything.

Keep writing
Best

stopwastingmymoney

(2,042 posts)
88. Yes, it's been a long time now
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:05 AM
Jun 2015

But I remember feeling as you describe. I also found it helpful to read about mental illness and try to figure out what was wrong with my family. My mother is a borderline personality disorder, my Dad did his best but he wasn't really strong enough to oppose her.

I began to rebel against her pretty young, stopped going to church when I was 15 and it was all out war by 17 or so. I was lucky that my Dad and other family members were there for me.

The worst part for me now is watching my younger siblings struggle, they didn't commit to therapy the way I did and we're all damaged to some degree. I had to get out and they were left behind to live with her anger. I know I was just a kid and I couldn't save them then, but it's still something I wish I could have done better. I'm their big sister and I wish I could help more, even now.

But hey, we all just do the best we can right? That has to be good enough.

Paka

(2,760 posts)
22. A well written and very brave post.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:11 AM
Jun 2015

So courageous of you to share this with us and give us a new understanding. In your case, glad to hear the happy ending.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
23. I just saw clips of the Duggar girls being interviewed
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:23 AM
Jun 2015

Those poor girls. Their voices were so tight and high, they sounded strangled. I hope they get real help some day.

renate

(13,776 posts)
24. thank you for sharing that with us
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:43 AM
Jun 2015

And I am truly in awe of your strength. Which is not to say that people who don't make it through a childhood like that aren't strong... that would be like saying that people who don't recover from having a ton of bricks fall on them are lacking in strength to push them off.

I'm so, so sorry that you and your siblings had to suffer like that. And so, so glad that you got out and have a happy life now.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
25. Wow! Recommended.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 03:45 AM
Jun 2015

Thank you so much for posting your story. I've such great respect for you and your courage.

I also grew up in an iceberg family. My mother is a narcissistic moron who, at age 90, can still play mind games like no one else I know. My father had tremendous anger issues along with PTSD from WWII. I carry deep scar tissue from childhood, literally. Sealed lips and secrets ruled our family environment. And you of course know, they were religious fundamentalists /authoritarian wingers. Because of them I'm this proud liberal, spiritual anti-theist. Not just an atheist.

My 4 years of therapy were invaluable to me, along with my cannibus use and meditation which helped me to overcome much of my anger.





Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
26. In a weird way you could say my family was an iceberg family too.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:06 AM
Jun 2015

Except our family was so dysfunctional it was noticeable. There was no covering that amount of crazy. However, despite that whatever was apparent was 100x worse behind closed doors. For example most people wouldn't have guessed about the physical abuse even though they could guess at neglect. The neglect was just too obvious to miss so guess at isn't really the right term, they could see the neglect, but not the physical abuse. I don't have any personal memories of sexual abuse. I have a vague feeling that nags at me based on a dream maybe. However, what stands out to me is that my parents were friends with at least one family where incest was multi generational. And I am almost certain another family they were friends with sexually abused children, I don't know which children or if they were related. Those are the two families we visited the most, but there were others that made me very very uncomfortable. I made myself scarce no matter who we were visiting, I pretty much didn't trust anyone ever. I also made myself scarce when we had company, the adults were not pleased.

Two of my sisters were molested when they were in foster care by the their foster father who was a pastor. My parents did nothing when they found out and they did know who he was and what church he was a pastor at. I would have gone to the church and marched up to the podium and yelled what he did into the microphone. And then I would call the police. I am not one of those afraid to start a scene people. My parents did nothing when one of the kids (he was at least 16) tried to molest my 9 year old sister. I threatened to kill him with a baseball bat, because I walked in on his attempted rape.

This shit is pissing me off to no end, iceberg or not.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
84. You are a very strong person!
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:44 PM
Jun 2015

It sounds like you were very intuitive and strong as a child. You knew that you had to keep yourself safe, like when you "made myself scarce when we had company." That's totally incredible.

I am in awe of behavior like that. I didn't adapt that way and love to hear stories about kids who did. I think, in some way--kids like you, remind those abusers that they were not getting away with their crimes.

Obviously, that strong part of you remains today. They did not change the fact that you were a resilient kid!

And yes--it can really make you pissed off when you think about it. But I think anger is good. It's a reminder that, by God, you did not deserve the bs that happened to you. It's a reminder of your innocence.

Keep on keeping on, Kalidurga. Thanks for sharing your story.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
87. Thank you I feel guilty about getting away so much
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jun 2015

And I shouldn't feel this way if there was no abuse, right? But, I do feel guilty and it doesn't come from no where, so some part of me must know that things weren't kosher with my siblings when I left that things were happening that I could not stop, nor could I bring them all with me where I was going. It makes some sense now the hostility I got for my disappearing acts. I haven't asked my sisters about abuse with friends of the family, but one sister alluded to a partial memory I think. I can't remember how it came up, but the abuser was a red haired man, the same one I had the dream about that made me sick also for no apparent reason because I don't remember a specific abuse, just the situation was hinky.

Thank you for understanding even more than I can possibly hope to. I didn't see it as escaping abuse, I saw it as abandoning my siblings even though I didn't really have the words to explain what I was leaving or what I was leaving them to face without me.

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
27. CoffeeCat, I can't begin to comprehend what
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:17 AM
Jun 2015

you went through, but you had the courage to finally do something about it, which is to go through a difficult healing process. But through your inner strength you finally broke through and are living life the way it's supposed to be lived, guilt free and happy. I salute you for being strong and not letting a very dysfunctional situation defeat your spirit.

Stay strong.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
29. My iceberg family melted
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 05:54 AM
Jun 2015

Of the four kids, the only one who came close to having a "normal" family was the youngest brother who was born while my father was in jail for molesting an "outside kid"..

The older three of us have NO contact with each other.. Our growing up years were as if each of us existed inside our own bubble..

I was molested/raped from age 6 to 13 when I finally mustered up the courage to tell my mother. what I got was a slap in the face and an accusation of trying to "steal her husband"..

I threatened to tell but we lived outside the US, and I was warned that if I ever did tell, I would be left in the jungle for the leopards/snakes to take care of me.. Would he have done it? who knows.. It was enough to scare me into silence.

One thing I did manage to do was to break the cycle, and give myself the permission to jettison the lot of them..

My sister & brother (kid 2 & 3) apparently dealt with what they got, by extorting money from him.. I wanted nothing to do with any of them..

I moved out at 18 and never looked back.

CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
31. Incredible post ((((CoffeeCat))))
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:14 AM
Jun 2015

As much as it must hurt to reopen these wounds (if they ever closed), I'm sure you know what it means for other abuse victims to read stories such as yours. I imagine it must be a lifeline to a possible pathway out of despair.

Despite the cycle of abuse, often times people who've been through the worst pain come out the other side with incredible compassion and empathy. You are clearly one of those people.

Thinking back to my childhood (which was rough, but nothing compared to yours) I can recall a couple of school friends who acted out in sexual ways that I now realize had to be indications of abuse. I wish I could have understood and been a better friend at the time, but I was only a child.

Wishing you the peace and happiness you very much deserve.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
32. thank you
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:15 AM
Jun 2015

I'd like to add that I grew up in a wealthy, intellectual and decidedly non-religious family and had a similar experience. What's more, 3 our of the 4 of us children were sent to therapists as kids and teens- not that we EVER would have told or been believed. In fact, years later, I got hold of some notes from a therapist and in an interview with my parents about me, my mother told a story about my father banging my head into a wall over a poor report card, (I still have the scar) and all my father talked about was how beautiful I was and what a great body I had. My mother said that all the problems in their marriage were because of me and that I had tried to "wrack, ruin and destroy" her family since the age of 8. There's more, but I'll leave it at that. And the therapist? She gushed about how successful and attractive my father was and how well dressed my mother was.

It doesn't just happen in Dugger like families.

Freddie

(9,267 posts)
33. Recognizing and ending the cycle of abuse
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:38 AM
Jun 2015

Is key. Thank you for sharing such horrifically painful memories.
My father was a beloved teacher; parents and kids adored him and there was nothing he would not do for his students. And we lived in the community he taught in, and went to the HS he taught at, and even had him for a teacher ourselves. Behind closed doors, he was horribly cruel verbally (occasionally physically) to us kids and our helpless mom, with a hair-trigger temper. Nothing we did was ever good enough. Then we had to go to school and hear over and over what a wonderful guy Dad was.
He did mellow out when we grew up, or simply realized we were adults, and his grandkids adored him.
In his dotage, with dementia, his true personality came roaring back, and he was nasty and frequently yelled at the staff at his assisted living place, who are trained to deal with such abuse. There was no way my brother or I would have taken him into our homes.
He died a year ago at 92 and it seems the whole community came to the funeral to say goodbye to their beloved Mr. B. So many stories and tributes about what a great teacher and person he was. My brother and I keep all the secrets to this day (my husband knows).

KG

(28,751 posts)
34. another sign of how sick this country has become that the duggars are celebs and are propped up by
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:53 AM
Jun 2015

politicians and news outlets.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
35. Powerful.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:33 AM
Jun 2015

while I also came from an abusive household, not quite like your experience, I knew from the get go, that there was major dysfunction in the duggar family.

I hope you have found peace in your life.

Cheers.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
36. "Iceberg family" is such a perfect term
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:46 AM
Jun 2015

It captures the situation perfectly.

Very, very powerful story CoffeeCat. Your tenacity in overcoming, your bravery in sharing, your clarity of writing should make you proud of who you've become despite the past.

demmiblue

(36,865 posts)
37. Holy hell, this is one of the most powerful stories I have read on DU.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:55 AM
Jun 2015

I find myself trying to write something in this big white box, but I can't seem to find the words.

Just...

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
40. Thank you for bravely telling your story
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jun 2015

I'm lucky that the generational cycle was broken by my dad, who grew up in a family like you describe. Including using Jesus as their enabler.

I have no respect for the Duggars and other holier than thou types. I know well they are probably very cruel people behind closed doors.

My aunt ended her relationship with her Mom over the demands she forgive her abuser, cause Jesus forgave him.

Sick philosophy, sick religion, sick holy book. From the very first book of the bible, the god described within is cruel, capricious and unworthy of worship.

I'm happy for you that you've created a good life, I know it took a lot of work.

Peace.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
42. Wow. Thank you for sharing your story and your insight.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jun 2015

I did not grow up in an iceberg family, but something about the Duggars, their associations, and how they've handled this revelation told me that it wasn't a small blip and we're only seeing the tip of the dysfunction.

The biggest red flag for me - Josh Duggar was exhibiting learned behavior, as you've pointed out. And the Duggar dad confided in his friend, the cop, who did NOT file a report, and is now in jail for child pornography.

I watched a few minutes of the Fox interview, and was horrified by Michelle Duggar's phoney cry face and baby talk about her 'poor' son, it was sickening.

I am happy that you found a way out of your past and the pain and have gone on to live the life you deserve.

I wish the same for the Duggar children, and all others who are raised in abusive families.



Canoe52

(2,948 posts)
43. Typing through my tears.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jun 2015

My deepest deepest sympathies.

I married a woman who was like your parents. Had three kids with her, don't ask me why. I hung in there for 13 years, mostly to protect the kids, partly because she wore me down so much I didn't have the strength to leave.

After the divorce, she went back to school to become (wait for it) a minister!

cp

(6,636 posts)
44. Brilliant
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 05:47 PM
Jun 2015

Thank you for helping us all heal by sharing such a deep trauma, and for coming out the other side, whole.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
46. This:
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:18 PM
Jun 2015
I remember having to sacrifice my humanity--by remaining silent. By remaining an object. I remained a nothing--to ensure that the abusers were never caught. So I remained a silent, nothing object, because my abusers were my parents and I wanted their love. I was trauma bonded to them. They were all I knew.


My abuser was my older sister's ex-husband, who was in his mid-thirties when he started perping on me. I was 9-10-11--I can't remember a lot, or how it started. Huge chunks of my childhood are missing. (There were other abuses--my dad was an alcoholic.)

I still have family members who blame me for the abuse. This is ironic, since this child molester abused my two baby sisters, a fact I didn't discover until I was in my late twenties.

I have established firm boundaries with most of my family. I recognize that they are as damaged as I, but I am the only one who has pursued recovery, and they even hold that against me.

I've done advocacy for survivors of relationship violence for better than thirty years now--my way of making lemon meringue pie out of the lemons of my childhood. Each time a survivor graces me with the details of their experience, I gain more insight into my own recovery. It's a very selfish advocacy...

Thank you for this very powerful post. Iceberg family, indeed.

TNNurse

(6,927 posts)
48. It is so amazing that you were able to share this.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 06:46 PM
Jun 2015

It is clear that it is real and still very painful. I have a friend who is my yoga teacher. She is very open about the sexual abuse from family members. She barely survived and is barely in contact with those who did nothing....the perpetrator is dead. She tells her story to help others realize they can survive horrific things and get better.

I went to her to learn yoga after chemotherapy left me weak and wobbly. I learned how strong a person can be and how you can use your own survival to help others. You have no obligation to share with the world as she has done (she wrote a book), but I hope sharing your story here and getting the support you have here is some comfort.

You are clearly a very strong person. I am sorry you had to learn your strength in such a way.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
52. I'm sorry you had to endure this. Nobody should.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 07:01 PM
Jun 2015

The first thing I thought to myself when this started breaking was "look at the Dad"....I'm familiar with families such as this as well. Not to the extent, but familiar enough to know the drill.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
53. That 13 year old was a kid, too.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 07:04 PM
Jun 2015

What she did in an attempt to gain affection from icebergs who approved only conditionally was not her fault, no more than the 8 year old boy they involved.

It's time to forgive her.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
54. Oh CoffeeCat, so poignantly written.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 07:11 PM
Jun 2015

I mourn for your lost childhood, teen years and some of adulthood. To raise yourself up beyond the horror you lived and break the cycle is courageous.

You must have shed many years of tears in your healing. I have. We are the brave ones. Those who are willing to see in order to heal.

Love, Peace, Care & Health, Shirley

AnotherMother4Peace

(4,247 posts)
55. And that bit "they were asleep" & "it was through their clothes" is most likely bullshit
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 08:25 PM
Jun 2015

Thank you for this honest narrative. I also had an "iceberg family", but it's very difficult to revisit the past. What I've heard from the parents that "they were asleep" & "it was through their clothes" is most probably BS. They were caught, they need to minimize & make good & they need to protect. This is their only option: minimize & deflect & lie.

calimary

(81,322 posts)
56. What an amazing story, CoffeeCat. Thank you SO much for sharing this pain and this dreadful burden
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 08:26 PM
Jun 2015

with us. Thank you for allowing us to see, in however a limited way we can, what kind of path you had to walk, and the insights it give us into families like the duggars. I don't have nearly as much of this kind of awareness as you do, living on the front lines of it throughout your young life. I had a fairly normal upbringing in that regard, anyway. For all her issues, my mom somehow managed to avoid passing on, to me, the battering she experienced at the hand of her rather cruel father. She once told me about the moment she stood looking down at him in his coffin, a few days after he died, and thinking "you can't hurt me anymore."

Your post gives me a lot to think about, CoffeeCat. Testaments like yours, and other DUers' posts here that speak of their own similarly-tormented childhoods, help the rest of us understand. They help the rest of us "get it." Get in deeply profound touch with this. Maybe not to walk in your shoes but at least to be able to follow close behind.

I greatly appreciate the stunning posts in this thread - the courage that you, CoffeeCat, and so many other DUers have shown as you somehow find your way to release and freedom from that horror you had to live with and grow up with. I think you're all calling the duggars what they are and illuminating what they did. Sharing your agony helps the rest of us grow and learn, and suffer with you. The courage! The generosity - that you would open up and share that horror and anguish. And the inspiration you are - for being able to get through it, get past it, and maybe even start healing.

Hopefully you can help guide the rest of us to that healing place as well.

calimary

(81,322 posts)
70. Thanks, sweetie.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:19 AM
Jun 2015

Hugs back atcha.



Seems like there needs to be a bunch of hugs on this thread. It just struck me, reading down through it, how much profound hurt there is. What some of us do to each other in the name of some cockeyed idea of "love." I'd guess the duggars look into their bathroom mirror every morning and see nothing wrong. Seems to me some proof of that manifests in their insistence that the REAL crime here is that their secret was revealed and they lost control of the privacy of it. Now everybody knows what they did. I suspect there's more. Many times by now I've heard the suspicions expressed that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and I feel that way too.

The whole notion of "Iceberg Families" is just excruciatingly perfect. So spot-on it hurts. What's visible for all to see is indeed only the tip that protrudes up above the surface of the water, while most of its monstrous bloated mass balloons, out of view, below the surface. PERFECT description.

Horrible - what humankind is capable of doing to the smallest and most powerless among it. ALL those kids are scarred. Deeply damaged. Makes me wonder what on earth went on in jim bob's house when he was a kid... On second thought, it's really not something I find myself wanting to try to imagine. Too hideous, I'll bet. I look at photos of that family and can't help thinking - "man, THERE'S a world of hurt."

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
58. Please keep talking.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 08:36 PM
Jun 2015

I hope you are as strong as you sound and that your life is now happy. Thank you for telling your story. You are helping and that is no small thing.

If it is any comfort we as a people are finally doing the right thing. We are facing reality and telling these difficult stories for the all to hear. The only way this perversion will stop is to turn the light on. None of this is new. It has been going on for ever. We as a people are going to make it stop. We are headed in the right direction like never before.

I suspect you already know and understand my statements.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
59. Thank you. Was talking to my husband tonight about the problem I am seeing that has permeated
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jun 2015

the whole right wing political sector form the Duggars to the Hasterts to the insane comments regarding women's right and probes and nut job statements.
Yes....these particular people think this is normal. To touch the girl inappropriately is no big deal. To treat women like crap...no problem. So what if a child grows up the same way.
I grew up in darkness myself but I also know that had I not got out I would not have known what normal was and is.
These type of people appear to be in strong positions such as Government office and heads of Corporations. Scary to know that this height of crazy has a lot of power. And like you say.....the iceberg......they protect each other. There is a Clinical term you know for when people that share the same insanity band together. Shared psychosis or shared psychotic disorder.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
78. I am glad that you escaped your own...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:21 PM
Jun 2015

…experience with darkness. That's probably why you have such keen insight on the politicization of this issue and how wrong it is.

I read these articles on the Internet and I can't believe that Fox News has managed to politicize serial incest and parents who cover up these crimes. Seriously?

They've turned this topic--which sane societies should be against--into some kind of debate.

They're blaming InTouch for "illegally" obtaining the police report, the liberal media and Democrats for trying to ruin this family. I mean, it seriously doesn't get any more screwed up than that.

If this situation doesn't teach us how dark and revolting Fox News is, then I don't know what will.

No amount of spin can make sexual abuse and the covering up of sexual abuse--ok.

I agree about the shared psychosis. I think it's probably more prevalent that most know. Look at Penn State. Many important people were involved in that cover up.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
60. I know broken families--devastated by heroin or death,
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 08:55 PM
Jun 2015

but the fact that pedophiles/pederasts are VERY good at networking makes it so much different
{{Cat}}

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
61. Powerful and extremely well written.
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 09:03 PM
Jun 2015

I can't say much about the reality show's family, I have never watched it.

But your words help me to understand a world I have never experienced. Thank you.

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
63. Against all odds, your breaking the abuse cycle is amazing, this should be shared,
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:00 PM
Jun 2015

In fact this whole thread and all the survivors in this room are amazing ...

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
76. I am completely blown away...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:15 PM
Jun 2015

…by all of the replies--and by all of the other courageous people who are sharing their stories of abuse.

It's really powerful--when abuse victims speak out. I think the isolation and years of shame and blame are like a weight. And when others tell their stories--you begin to see your own innocence and your own pain. And that weight is lifted a bit.

I am glad that my post has helped others to share their stories online. There are most likely countless others who read these posts, but did not reply. But they feel validation or compassion too.

It's good to know that sharing my story can have some positive benefit to others.

ImBushed

(4 posts)
66. CoffeeCat you are very brave
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:19 PM
Jun 2015

I was sexually molested by my father while simultaneously sexually molested by a Catholic Priest while an Altar Boy. However, the worst aspect of that existence was by far the constant and non-ending emotional abuse endured by both myself and my Mother from my Father and his deeply religious relatives! I hope that as abuse in homes becomes more exposed and more awareness is gained toward what existing in an abusive home is like, that more compassion, resources and understanding will emerge for the victims. Bravo to you!

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
75. You bring up an interesting point...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:12 PM
Jun 2015

…about emotional abuse. You mentioned that it was the worst part of your life in that home. So true. It's so hard to describe the emotional abuse--but it's day to day and it's suffocating. I think emotional abuse becomes the abuser's strategy for keeping their victims sick and broken. That way, the physical and sexual abuse remain a secret. If we remain weak, we don't fight back.

But you are right--it really hurts. And it can do so much damage.

I'm sorry about the sexual abuse that you went through with your father and by the priest. You deserved a wonderful childhood, free of all of that. I'm glad that, as an adult, you recognize the abuse for what it was. You seem to have a very healthy perspective and such kindness for fellow survivors.

Peace and happiness to you!

Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #75)

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
67. My family...for a relatively short time ....
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jun 2015

... Got sucked into a cult like existence. My family/parents and older siblings are decent human beings and my sisters and I were spared the horrific things you were subjected to. But I saw it. My friends described the submerged part of the iceberg that went on behind closed doors. It's in part what motivated our family to leave. I relived those days in your story...how easily things could have ended differently, precisely for the reasons you describe....because of the socially cloistered existence they fostered and demanded. You are so strong and so freaking smart to toss it aside. There is no middle ground, there is no partial submission to their rules, it's all in or all out. It's the way it must be.

EweWish

(1 post)
71. Iceberg Families
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jun 2015

I have seen families like you described and when people finally figure out what is going on.......all you hear is: They seemed so nice, they seemed so happy, what else was going on....... and the best one.......I think its all a lie because people cant stand happy families. I was a paramedic and had to go into a home of that "perfect family" when I got back to the station I called CPS in......they came in pulled the kids........and a week later the kids were back with them and we would be called out again. The system sucks.

Your story touched my heart...... I actually posted the link a couple of times to show people what the Duggars are really like.......but in truth you will never change someone else opinion when it comes to this stuff.

I wanted to tell you something and I hope you take it to heart.........forgive yourself..........you were a kid and with what you went through you took control where you could. In truth, with what you went through I am surprised you were even grasping sanity. Thats not an insult....but honey.......you have been through hell and back........you survived. That is something great........ alot of people never make it back...... I know of a little of what i am talking about here and for a long time it took me to realize that was then........if I had the wisdom then as i do now......things would have been different and i would have made different choices. I am not the same person as I once was........and I had to forgive myself before I could ask for forgiveness. I also realized that I might not get that forgiveness but i was really asking to admit I did something wrong......not everyone can be forgiving.......I was lucky. I live my life as a better person now......who tries to help everyone.......to treat people as I want to be treated.

Your story is heart wrenching and I hope more people read it.......it is inspiring and hopefully when read will help someone in that position. And you I only wish for wonderful sunny days full of love........you certainly deserve it.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
73. Wow, what a kind post...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:06 PM
Jun 2015

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

I think self-forgiveness is a long road. And everything you said makes perfect sense. I look back too--and wonder how I survived. I think the mind is a very kind thing.

It sounds like you are a very kind person who has also learned some very deep lessons from your own personal journey. Not everyone comes out on the other end, a kind person. And who could blame them if they weren't? Major kudos to you for being so resilient and for living a life full of kindness and compassion.

I appreciate your comments. Very much. You've given me a lot to think about!

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
89. I'm not sure this is being blown up to be more than it really is
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 01:33 AM
Jun 2015

pedophile seems a bit much considering he was minor and the brain changes with pre-frontal cortex -- The father mentioned and brought up his concerns, telling people what his son was doing and I'm not saying what you describe doesn't exist but he'd likely keep it a secret if he wanted this and this relates to his son specifically though whatever unorthodox ways he choose to handle the problem are based on ultra-religious beliefs but if that problems stops and he is 27 now and currently not engaging in the same behavior or practice that matters to me but taking behavior from the pre-frontal cortex developing age ranges and applying pedophile to minors, molestation certainly but not sure it is being made out to be much worse than it really is. -- I grew up in a very dysfunctional problem on all sorts of scales and my uncle & aunt with their several children are very religious probably more fundamentalist conservative then they are following a doctrine that watching TV will send them to hell, much less be the star of one. My aunt is a true believer kool-aid drinking but following the BS because of the "good" and probably less hypocritical to the doctrine than the pastors preaching it, very good person at heart but is a cult follower. Even voted for Ron Paul rather than McCain because she feels Sarah Palin should be at home taking care of her children and Sarah Palin is super religious herself just to give you an idea.

What I'm saying with all this and not familiar with your situation and sorry to hear of that, is at this point several years later I don't understand how to go back to 'fix' the problem or throw the guy in prison now or unless he isn't continuing the same behavior I don't see much else. If he is then they need to be addressed though careful with the prison option unless it is a recurring, unstoppable problem mainly because prison is very dangerous for someone with a sex charge though not as dangerous as a "snitch" (the lowest bottom of the prison totem poll)

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