Like oil and water, Liberalism and Corporatism- for lack of a better word- don't mix.

[cali]

For clarity's sake, the definition of corporatism for the purposes of this op, is the influence/control of corporate special interests on our political system and on policies that emerge from it, resulting in laws, regulations or the lack thereof.

Corporatism is the oil and it floats atop the water, smothering the life in it. It's like a toxic oil slick. Yes, corporate special interests may support social issues- but only if they don't cost them big bucks or elections. See any corporations calling for a restoration of voting rights? No. Because those interests know that most minorities will vote against their economic interests. It's not in the corporate Wall Street interests to support, for instance, Social Security. It is in their interests to support privatizing it. Charter schools are in the interests of powerful corporations. Expanding Medicare is not. Ending the prison industrial system is not. Private Prisons are big business. And on and on.

The good that corporate interests do with grants, donations, etc, is vastly outweighed by the damage they do lobbying to expand their economic interests and power.

Is the above a generalization? Sure, but it's largely accurate.

[djean111]

1. Spot on. Thank you.

[pengu]

2. I strongly agree with this post

Corporate control of government (and not just ours) is the most pressing issue we're facing today. I think it's more pressing than even climate since I don't think we can fix the latter effectively while the former is in play. Both parties are deeply corrupted by money.

Just take a look at fast track:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/27/corporations-paid-us-senators-fast-track-tpp

Fast-tracking the TPP, meaning its passage through Congress without having its contents available for debate or amendments, was only possible after lots of corporate money exchanged hands with senators. The US Senate passed Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) – the fast-tracking bill – by a 65-33 margin on 14 May. Last Thursday, the Senate voted 62-38 to bring the debate on TPA to a close.

Those impressive majorities follow months of behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing by the world’s most well-heeled multinational corporations with just a handful of holdouts.

Bennet, Murray, and Wyden – all running for re-election in 2016 – received $105,900 between the three of them. Bennet, who comes from the more purple state of Colorado, got $53,700 in corporate campaign donations between January and March 2015, according to Channing’s research.

Wyden, in particular, should lose his seat. This never would have passed without his backstabbing.

On a personal note:

I'm kind of new here. From my initial explorations, I don't think I'm sticking around here long though. I see lots of like minded souls, then I start reading the purity pledge demands should Clinton win the nomination. I'm not interested in a corporate hawk candidate. I'm not sure why I'm posting this here, probably because this is a post I agree with. I wanted to state my thoughts on this place somewhere that (hopefully) wouldn't start a fight.

[cali]

3. hey, welcome to DU, pengu and thanks you so much.

First of all, thanks for your excellent post. If I may, I'd like to address a couple of your points, in the hopes of convincing you to stick around. Yes, the administration of DU supports HRC, but they have a history of being pretty fair. I hope that continues to be the case. I agree that the out of control influence and control of corporate entities is the greatest problem facing us. And I think discussing it, and not letting it sink as an issue is important.

Again, welcome.

[pengu]

9. I'm mostly familiar with the dynamic

I've been a member in good standing at dailykos since 2006, so it's pretty much the same deal here. The nuances are different of course, but it's basically the same. It's going to be pure hell both there and here for people who don't like Clinton if she wins the primaries. I'm working hard for Bernie for now. He's a longshot but he can win, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm also a realist, and would like to have some roots someplace I can discuss lefty politics without having to support someone I just can't. I don't think this is that place anymore than dailykos. You would agree?

[cali]

12. I don't know if this is that place anymore, but I'm discouraged by some of the

current dynamics. In any case, I still hope you stick around.

[pengu]

14. I appreciate your replies

I'm sorry to side track your post, but I didn't know where else to bring it up without coming off as a troll.

[Fumesucker]

4. Welcome to DU

If you look carefully you will see that there is a very loud and determined minority who are constantly trying to distract from anything corporate or financial to entirely social issues.

Have you seen this thread yet today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026780068

Interesting that there's almost no discussion on there but a lot of recs, then check the rec list by clicking on it and note what loud DU voices aren't on it.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Welcome to DU.. your voice is surly needed

on exposing reality.

[bigwillq]

22. Hello

Welcome to DU!

[B Calm]

5. Capitalism is doomed to failure without a sprinkle of socialism to keep it in check.

[cali]

6. What we have in this country is far more unfettered than most people seem to realize

and it's literally a killer, in so many ways.

[el_bryanto]

7. Yep - I am a capitalist, but this is completely correct

Capitalists and Corporatists and Wall Street can't help themselves; they are essentially addicts. With no individual responsibility, no sense of community, the addict corporation will destroy itself and everything around it, unless reigned in with a regulation i.e. socialism.

Bryant

[marym625]

11. K&R!

I love the description/comparison of oil and water to corporatism and liberalism.

Great post, Cali. Thank you!

[PowerToThePeople]

13. truth. n/t

[MineralMan]

15. Since the corporation is the core of our capitalistic economic system, with

nothing on the horizon that can replace major corporations, I'm afraid we're going to have to deal with the system for longer than any of us is likely to live.

The answer is to mobilize voters in far larger numbers than currently participate in the political side of things. Only through the political system can we control what is at the center of how we all live and is the source for all individual incomes in one way or another.

We can decry capitalism and corporations as much as we like, but there is no viable alternative economic system available to replace it. Not in a nation of 300+ people. Some of us may think we are outside of the corporate environment, but that's a false belief. If we earn and spend money, we are dependent on the existing economic system to a degree that can't be minimized.

What to do? Register all Americans who are 18 years old or older to vote and see to it that they all go to the polls. The nation can control corporations, but only if it has the will do do so. That will is not at all apparent in our political system. If we want change, we must enable that change.

We need to register the unregistered and see to it that everyone votes. Unless we do that, we are powerless. If we do that, we control our own fate. It is that simple.

[cali]

16. It's called effective regulation. It may be difficult in these times to restore

more vigorous regulation, but it ain't rocket science and it has jackshit to do with replacing corporations or capitalism. It does have to do with strengthening regulatory agencies. This may shock you, mineral, but those agencies actually already exist.

[MineralMan]

17. They do, but the regulatory guidelines come from

Congress, for the most part. Electing a Congress that will act on the behalf of the voters is how those guidelines and rules change. My suggestion is about how that can happen.

I cannot see any other mechanism that will make the changes that we all recognize need to be made. We are not at odds here. We have the same goals. I'm offering a suggestion on how those goals can be realistically reached. Complaining about how things are will not change anything. Taking action to make that change possible will.

You will do as you choose. I choose to try to get more voters to the polls. That's my action.

[pengu]

19. Monopolies must be broken too

And monopolies don't mean just 1 company any more, just look at the LIBOR scandal.

[appalachiablue]

23. This isn't stressed enough esp. the need to break up the Big Banks & Corp. Media

that were both deregulated under Clinton. Reagan began it by repealing the Fairness Doctrine thus allowing the rise of RW radio, and ignoring the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Their dangerous consolidation in 30 years is destroying our democracy and country. Glad to see it bought up. Hope you can stick around, yet understand. And welcome. Where one goes as an alternative I have no idea.

[pengu]

25. Bernie's been talking about it a little

Let me answer it this way, John. I think there is obviously an enormously important role for the free market and for entrepreneurial activity. I worry how free the free market is. In sector after sector, you have a small number of companies controlling a large part of the sector.

Certainly, in my view, the major banks should be broken up. We want entrepreneurs and private businesses to create wealth. No problem. But what we're living in now is what I would call—what Pope Francis calls—a casino-type capitalism, which is out of control, where the people on top have lost any sense of responsibility for the rest of the society. Where it's just "It's all me. It's all me. And to heck with anybody else." I want to see the result of that wealth go to the broad middle class of this country and not just to a handful of people.

This was from his interview on CNBC.

He usually talks about this just in the context of banks, but I'm always happy to hear him point out it is happening across all sectors. Certainly finance seems to be the biggest, but you're right, media consolidation has been a disaster for this democracy.

[PowerToThePeople]

18. rofl

[MineralMan]

24. You laugh. Let's hear your feasible plan.

I'll watch for your reply.

[PowerToThePeople]

26. There are plenty of ways to dismantle it.

Post office run as a national credit union instead of private banks.

Employee owned cooperatives over corporate wealth leaching conglomerates.

There have been many ideas to address these issues right here on DU over the years. I do not need to reiterate them all once again.

[MineralMan]

27. Lots of ways, except a way to implement any of them.

Until we have a Congress that will implement these things, they are nothing but pipe dreams. Start with the first step and elect the right people. The rest will follow. It will not happen in one election, either. It must be planned and carried out over time. Are you willing to work for that?

I included the word feasible in my post. I did that for a reason.

[lonestarnot]

20. And they've gone from a slow leak to a full blow out.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. "History supplies little more than a list of people who have helped themselves to the property

"History supplies little more than a list of people who have helped themselves to the property of others." - Voltaire

[hifiguy]

28. Perfect. Traveling down the road of corporatism is killing

the Democratic Party I grew up with. No more Turd Way Corporatism. It stops NOW!