Attacks on SSI/SSDI Should Not Be Part of the Democratic Policy Position

[daredtowork]

Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 05:11 PM - Edit history (3)

Posting OPs or comments about the "fraud and waste" that plagues SSI/SSDI is a backdoor to a discussion about "cutting entitlements", and more specifically "stealth welfare". This anti-SSI/SSDI propaganda comes straight from Fox News, and it is only supported by the occasional scandal (which is duly prosecuted by law enforcement) and a lot of personal anecdotes. Just like the perpetual astroturf on welfare, everyone "knows" someone who got away with cheating SSI/SSDI.

Yet everyone who has actually applied for SSI/SSDI knows what a red tape nightmare the process has become - chiefly because the system is overburdened by all the qualification checks, bureaucratic documentation, and fraud investigations to address the continuous accusations of screeching concerned citizens. It is now practically impossible to get SSI/SSDI without a lawyer, which creates a major access barrier for lower income people with emerging disabilities. If you are under 60, your case gets automatically denied and you usually have to appeal twice, and the process takes around three years. If you do manage to get on SSI/SSDI after 3 years, you are still subject to regular reviews. You can also be reported for fraud at any time. It always baffles me why those people who are so irked about knowing "someone" committing fraud didn't simply report it.

Those people who had to wait three years lived in poverty, often in torturous conditions: sometimes they lived with family who didn't want to take care of them and sometimes they lived on welfare. OFTEN they became homeless. Sometimes they died while waiting to get SSI/SSDI.

Once you have SSI/SSDI, you will continue to live in poverty. It's less than $900/month, and you are ineligible for food stamps. You are allowed to work (swapping out your aid for what you earn) but if you go over a certain amount you will lose your benefits. You are allowed to save very little - even through fancy mechanisms that the government has created to try to help people on SSI save to go to school or make a very small down-payment on a house). When you have to work you have to go through the hassle of reporting your salary - I believe it's on a weekly basis.

And of course you will be surveilled the whole time and have to go through regular reviews to see if you are still medically qualified for SSI/SSDI.

Like welfare, the government does as much as they can to make sure that this program is NOT WORTH IT. That it is demeaning, cumbersome, a hassle, and barely survivable to live on. Taxpayers long before the current crop of "concerned citizens" were poking in their noses to make sure no person could feel comfortable to "depend" on SSI/SSDI even if they were blind and deaf from birth and there could be absolutely no argument about their qualification to be in the program.

I especially hope those on Team Hillary are listening and will take up this message. Her platform is weak on poverty issues right now, and as long as SSI/SSDI is being treated as "stealth welfare", it's vulnerable to cuts and/or further bureaucratic over-burderning that will lead to cuts down the line. SSI/SSDI needs to be actively defended, and it needs to be expanded. The recipients live in poverty in major urban areas: they need help with food and housing. I would advocate streamlining and simplifying the program so people wouldn't need to hire a lawyer and they could easily step in and out of disability coverage as needed.

I don't think DU would stand for it if someone posted an OP advocating the elimination of Social Security retirement benefits. They would recognize that as a Republican talking point, not part of the Democratic platform. Framing SSI/SSDI as a fraud-plagued entitled should be recognized in that same light. I honestly don't get why this is even seen as a matter for debate. We could debate banning abortions, too: but that's not up for debate here because it's a right-wing talking point. Well, so is treating SSI/SSDI as "stealth welfare" that can be had by anyone who complains of having a "backache and depression".

Please step up and recognize that anti-SSI/SSDI propaganda is spreading Fox News talking points and DU discussion should be creating policy around supporting SSI/SSDI (or transcending it with better ideas).

UPDATE: in another thread edhopper posted links to articles that cover the facts about how small a "problem" SSI/SSDI fraud really is. I'm reposting the articles here for the purpose of general education:

Social Security Disability Fraud is Rare: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/195559-social-secuity-disability-fraud-is-rare

Nine Facts That Prove Disability Insurance Isn’t A Giant Boondoggle: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/16/2787821/facts-disability-insurance/

Right-Wing Media Miss The Facts On Disability Fraud: http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/06/28/right-wing-media-miss-the-facts-on-disability-f/194669

Update 2: A commenter pointed out that people living on SSI/SSDI are also living in poverty. I don't want to change the flow of my argument by going into the different circumstances for poverty in urban and rural areas - but I will add here people on SSI/SSDI in rural areas also live in poverty and face the additional burdens of lack of public transportation, lack of Internet access, lack of access to community agencies, and lack of access to legal advocates that can help them sort through the mind-boggling problems government programs continually subject poor people to. I would choose urban poverty any day because there is greater chance of finding a lifeline in a time of crisis here.

Update 3: MattP noted that SSI is currently being swiftboated with a phony "overpayments" scandal. People who work while on SSI must report their status an income weekly: you can only imagine the bureaucratic red tape that entails. In the end, the government always recovers the money, and normal people are always stuck with the hassle and extra expense. Here is a great article from CNNMoney on what the overpayments situation really means for all involved: http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/28/pf/social-security-overpaid/

Note that article claims the Social Security Administration actually works at a 99% accuracy rate. Wow! Finally, this is what Sean Brune, a senior advisor at the Social Security Administration, told a U.S. Senate panel regarding the SSI overpayments audit:

“Let me make clear that while we work diligently to correct and pursue them, improper payments do not equate with fraud. Improper payments can occur for a number of reasons, some of which are outside the control of the beneficiary or the agency.”

Source: http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/03/18/ssi-flagged-improper-spending/20143/

[yeoman6987]

1. I'd like it part of the general funding and not Social Security

Or I'd rather the employer have to pay it for as long as they are in need.

[daredtowork]

3. I'm a fan of Mincome and eliminating the poverty bureaucracy all together. nt

[yeoman6987]

5. I kinda like that too.

Everyone gets 30 thousand and go from there would be nice. Of course eventually 30 thousand would be considered poor for those that only receive that but it would be a start at least.

[daredtowork]

6. The same thing happens to Social Security

Inflation always outraces the benefit. My hope would be if it's not means-tested and enough people are relying on it that the government would keep it at a level adjusted for inflation (with no basket cheating).

[upaloopa]

7. It is basically razing the floor. It would cause

inflation to where prices rise to meet the new floor.
I think when we propose these ideas we get a large field of knowledgeable people together and look at all possible outcomes.

[daredtowork]

9. Economists always say that but

If you follow the implication of what they just said, it requires that a bunch people not be receiving any income for their idea of an economy to function.

What are those people who are not receiving income doing? Aren't those the same homeless people that people regularly gripe about and try to push off the street and blame for their own condition?

I submit an economy that requires a segment of the population to have nothing is not an acceptable economy. It is an economy that the "haves" are currently getting away with at the expense of the "have nots".

The very first principle should be a fair share of survival resources for everyone, and then worry about tweaking for inflation and deflation after that.

[upaloopa]

13. Economics is not a moral exercise

It is a best guess of what an outcome will be with a given input. It is devoid of ideas of what is just it is just theory based on past experience.

[daredtowork]

14. Policy is a moral exercise

So when you apply economics to policy, you still need to factor in what you're going to do about those people you propose to deprive of income.

[JonLP24]

37. There are many theories and fields

Macroeconomics is one with many different theories -- Marxism is one. Keynesian is the most mainstream, I think daredtowork raised an additional possibility and people not working without money has an economic impact in one way or the other.

[JHB]

39. At the risk of being a spelling nazi, I have to point out...

"raising the floor" means lifting the floor,
"razing the floor" means tearing the floor away.

[jwirr]

48. Especially when many of us on Social Security never make more than $10,000 now.

[jwirr]

47. You are assuming that most of the recipients are somehow cured? Let us make a list: children

born with disabilities such as developmental disabilities, brain damaged patients such as one hurt in a motorcycle accident, persons with severe mental illness who no one WILL employ, persons who are elderly and poor (they get a SSI supplement), persons dying from cancer or any other disease, persons hurt on the job that will be effected by that injury the rest of their life, etc. And the list goes on. NO cures anywhere among that group. Many have never even been able to hold a job. They are often covered under a parents social security number. This is what the majority of SSDI users look like. They have gone through extensive medical examinations by government employed doctors. They are obviously disabled. They are not committing fraud.

Many of the fraud examples they used in one of the articles I read made it clear that it was often agency error that caused the lose of money.

Most of the cases you are talking about are not even on these programs. They may qualify for SSI but that is not part of Social Security. It is administered by the Social Security Department but the money does come out of the general fund. And if they are likely to be cured they are on it temporarily and monitored regularly.

What you are asking for is that only the elderly can be a part of social security. Oh yes, and the survivors of the dead.

As to employers - they match the contributions of workers to social security already.

[upaloopa]

2. I work for county government

SSI and SSDI plus county subsidies is how we get homeless people into housing. And the ACA helps get mental health services.
By paying our taxes through these programs we all are helping the less fortunate.

[daredtowork]

4. Undermining SSI/SSDI is going backwards. nt

[jwirr]

49. That is true and thank you for helping in that effort. But the truth is that all county/state

governments are not equal. There are areas in this country were no one gives a damn about the poor and do the least they can for them. I have lived in Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota and there is a great deal of difference even in just those three states.

[upaloopa]

67. I am in CA so I understand what you are saying

[daredtowork]

68. There is differences by county here

If I lived just across the Bay in San Francisco, General Assistance (welfare) wouldn't be a loan. They would only take it back IF I went on to SSI. But if I went to work instead, they would count G.A. money as the life support I needed to turn my life around and not immediately put me in debt the minute I start digging myself out of the hole.

Oakland (Alameda County) is wrong, crazy, nuts, absurd. And people wonder about the level of homelessness and the crime rate here...?

[hfojvt]

8. I still think that denying fraud or attacking people who complain about it

is the wrong approach. Oh that darned "screeching public".

I just figured my own take-home pay. I make about $870 a month for working my part-time job.

That doesn't include the fact that I need to put perhaps $1,000 in an IRA just to avoid federal income taxes.

So we are supposed to be cool with fraud? We are supposed to believe that it ALL gets caught?

Denial and attacks just make you look stubborn and intolerant. I prefer to concede to the truth and respond thus

1. yes there is some fraud
2. no system will ever be perfect
3. it still helps a lot of people who really NEED the help, and not just people faking it.
4. it's better to help people who need help, in spite of the fraud which can happen, than to help nobody.

One could also perhaps show waiting lists and underfunding and that payments probably have not kept up with inflation since the 1970s (as CBPP did a few years ago with TANF).

[daredtowork]

12. The simple fact is the evidence of fraud comes from people getting caught.

The problem is not the fraud. There are people trying to commit crimes everywhere there is money. We have law enforcement authorities and adequate measures to deal with that. I'm not denying fraud exists, I'm saying its a right-talking point to make a big deal about fraud and waste when it's not a big deal.

The SSI/SSDI program is NOT plagued with waste and fraud. Sure some people try to get away with fraud - but then they get caught. Same thing happens when people try to defraud the IRS or try to defraud a bank. Crime happens. The SSI/SSDI program actually has a very low rate of fraud.

Unfortunately, what is is plagued with is an disproportionate and costly amount of bureaucracy compared to that fraud - that is the WASTE you, the taxpayer, should be concerned and screeching about.

[Voice for Peace]

80. yes, that is the true waste.. I have been amazed at how convoluted the process is,

even AFTER getting a medical qualifying decision from a judge
and it's been almost 3 years now since initial application,
not a penny received yet. HORRIBLE system.

[valerief]

44. But you can't talk about SS fraud without comparing it to the BIG FRAUD

perpetrated on the taxpayer via Congress. Their WAR MACHINE giveaways blast the penny ante SS fraud right out of the water.

And where does this fraudulent money go?

The WAR MACHINE money is "lost" overseas and profits are socked away in offshore accounts.
The SS fraud money, what little there is, goes to local businesses that provide jobs.

Stop playing your RW game with "we can't deny blah-blah." No one likes any movie for just the opening credits. You've got to see the whole picture. It's the same with this. The whole picture is that SS fraud is almost as insignificant as voter fraud. Any SS fraud circulates money. WAR MACHINE fraud just hoards it or "loses" it.

Yes, I know some of that WAR MACHINE money is a jobs program, but it's a sucky one. We can do something more constructive with the money than building killing machines we don't want or need.

[jwirr]

50. You make a good point and it very well could be the cuts to these programs that are causing the

errors. The article stated that many were agency errors. And if workers have more cases than they can handle then it happens.

What bothers me about everyone screaming about these errors as if the world is coming to an end is the way the rethugs are going to take it. They are not going to see your 4 points. They are going to see a chance to start further destruction of the program. And that is what we are afraid of. It is not denial.

[ms liberty]

10. Doesn't the federal government owe the ss trust fund money?

They've been using the surplus each year, for I don't know how many years now, with the promise to pay it back when it is needed. That was what Al Gore's lock box was all about -paying back the ss trust fund with the surpluses we were about to begin seeing, and then putting that repayment in a "lock box" so that it would be there for the baby boomers and beyond. And before that, St Ronnie of the RayGun had raised the ss taxes, so more was flowing into the ss trust fund than before, so...okay, well there ya go. That's why we have all the manufactured ss crisis crap. Congress doesn't want to pay us back our money, and they'd really like us to forget about all that, please. Oh, look over there - a shiny object!

[Enthusiast]

34. Funds collected by FICA are the single largest creditor to the United States government.

The surplus they spoke of in 1999 was the Social Security trust fund surplus. Bush recognized and admitted this during the presidential debates with Al Gore. But then, as President, Bush said, "A surplus indicates people are paying too much in taxes."

So Bush pushed for his tax cuts while simultaneously waging two wars. This created the deficit they are constantly whining about today.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. The US government owes almost 19 Trillion dollars

in debt obligations, including the SS trust fund. It isn't a "promise" to pay it back, it is a constitutional obligation. The US cannot default on its debt. That said it can always inflate its way effectively out of that obligation.

[n2doc]

11. The RW never discusses the biggest source of fraud in the Government- Defense

Never. The entire SSDI program could be fraudulent and it wouldn't come close to the fraud perpetrated by the Defense industry and Military. Trillions 'misplaced or unaccounted for'.

[Enthusiast]

35. +1! And the media aids them in their deception.

[Duppers]

77. zactly.

[BuelahWitch]

15. K&R n/t

[John_Doe80004]

16. I receive ssdi ssi medicaid medicare

I get a grand total of 753.00 a month. No food stamps no housing just my monthly check and health insurance. I suffer from schizoaffective disorder diabetes and sleep apnea and I'm beginning to developed neuropathy which means blindness and kidney failure could be in my not too distant future. I also suffer chronic fatigue as a result of all this. I pay my girlfriend rent and can't marry her because I will lose most of my health coverage which I need for my health issues. Anyone right wing or otherwise who thinks we are living it up on tax payer dime laying back in a plush hammock sucking back brews eating lobster tail shrimp and steak needs a good dose of reality. I would like these people who attack these programs in an effort to cut privatize or abolish them to spend one week in the head body and shoes of someone like me and ask themselves if they still think we are a bunch of shiftless lazy undeswrving fraudsters. I would just love to trade positions with one of these people. Give me the nice job home car wife and let the doubters deal with my illness and stress and fear of losing what little I get and winding up homeless. My girlfriend is and rn and works at nursing homes so no entitlements to pay these nursing homes no job for her either. These people really need a good dose of reality and need to get reconnected to the common people and come down off their pulpits and high horses.

[daredtowork]

20. Because of the food stamps trade off in California

many people on SSI have to go to food banks or starve outright. All of their check goes toward rent. It can take years to get into "affordable housing" schemes where rent is only a portion of your income (similar to Section 8) - and increasingly these units are being built in the boondocks, away from where the necessary social services and programs are.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. It is posts like this that break my heart.

What happened to us as a people that we have become such cruel selfish monsters that we cannot care for those of us who are unable to care for themselves?

We were once better than this.

[yeoman6987]

51. I don't think we were better then this

Before FDR, families took care of the ones who needed it. It was decided that widows were sruggling and couldn't make it. So programs were set up. Before the programs, nothing was available.

[jwirr]

53. After FDR we were definitely better - post raygun not.

[jwirr]

52. What happened - hate churches, raygonomics, faux news and more. We have let a few lead us

around by the nose for 30+ years.

[StarzGuy]

72. I was denied SSDI once...

...I lost my job, house, truck and was ready to commit suicide and actually made the attempt before I was granted SSDI. I had to live on welfare benefits for 9 months before hand. My credit is in the toilet, I have no savings. My steak is the tube variety called a hot dog when I can afford to buy them. Once a month I accept charity food boxes from St Mary's Food Bank. The cost of living in this area is high. I have trouble paying for my utilities. I don't go anywhere, eat out, go to a movie or do anything "fun" because I don't have the money to do so. SSDI along with a small pension is my sole source of income. According to the Social Security Administration I am 100% disabled. I can no longer work let alone being employable. I have several severe physical and mental disabilities that will never get "better". I won't go into more detail, but you get the picture. I often think of suicide but I'm afraid to tell my psychiatrist that because I don't want to be put back into the hospital again. If they take away my ability to live on my own by implementing a 20% cut in SSDI (as currently proposed by the ring wing Congress of the United States) I might as well not be here anymore.

[StarzGuy]

75. ...and I forgot to say...

...that I don't buy the expensive hotdogs like the name brand ones that cost $10 for a package of 8, no, I buy the bulk pack (24 or so) of hotdogs for $5.99...

[daredtowork]

85. Most people on SSI around here use food pantries

And they don't get to choose what goes in the bag...

[deurbano]

17. My 41-yr-old quadriplegic (from birth) daughter has to periodically prove she is still disabled.

And they make her feel like some kind of criminal trying to put one over on them. When she has worked through the PASS program, it was a second job just to figure out the ridiculous amount of documentation.

[daredtowork]

21. You need a law degree to navigate the work and savings programs! nt

[MisterP]

18. but don't you get it? there's NO LINE any more: not SS, not war, not the old "live boy or

dead woman"
as long as they're not an R they can do anything
ANYTHING
and we've been told so on DU itself

the party's theme nowadays is "at least our pile of flaming infants isn't as high as the other guy's. now stop complaining and help me ladle their fat onto the bones"

[SheilaT]

19. Thanks to everyone for their posts.

I am driven somewhat crazy by people who very casually say, "Oh maybe I should just go on disability."

I have one acquaintance, who does have certain health issues, but she is still quite able to work. I keep on trying to explain to her that even if she could get SSDI (unlikely because she can do her job) it would be considerably less than what she is currently earning. And that then she'd need to pay out of pocket for her health insurance (her current job has a very good health plan. I know, I used to work there also) for two years and then she'd be able to get on Medicare. She'd probably be just fine on Medicare, but meanwhile she'd have burned through whatever savings or retirement fund she has.

Those who need it, deserve SSDI. And welfare. No one is getting rich on either of those.

[daredtowork]

23. The biggest problem is those who need it not getting it

Because of the documentation you need, and the sorts of interactions you have to have with your doctor and various bureaucrats, the fact you might need to get a lawyer (and work through a lot of rejections to get that lawyer)...the fact you need a lot of physical and mental energy and resilience to do all these things...and wait for years (all the while your health condition may be changing, making you wonder whether you will just happen to be better the month of your court hearing or the day you happen to see your primary care physician last, wasting years of waiting...) ...

All these factors work profoundly against low income people, and, ironically, people with a high level of disability (fatigue and mental issues especially). In addition, they are more likely to be isolated, and unlikely to "hold out" long enough to deal with this enormous process. A lot of what the government wants to hear is counter-intuitive for human beings. The form needs to say you are 100 percent unable to work. The human mind quibbles and says, "Well, under these circumstances, and on that day, I could do this...to be honest..."

The people on the very bottom - the homeless, the severely mentally ill- increasingly get advocates to help them. It's the level of poverty above that: people who do minimum wage service jobs and have maintained their housing, but are not in the "hanging with doctors and lawyers" class, that really get shafted here.

[jwirr]

56. My son-in-law was hurt in the military years ago. He got a 40 percent disability. Now 20+ years

later his is worse and the VA wanted to do surgery. The first surgery made it a little better. The last one has made it even worse than before any surgery. So instead of giving him a larger percentage disability they offered him money to go back to school. He needed the money so he went back to school but he is not capable of doing the work he is learning about. So in effect they have rejected his disability.

So he applied for SSDI - they are using the VA bull to continue to deny him any help. So my daughter works more time than she has to in order to maintain their home. He gets a 40% payment from the VA to help.

The paperwork is designed to prove that you are not disabled. If one doctor says you are disabled and other says you are then that is used against you. Some of the government doctors who examine you for the SSA are against you from the start if you do not crawl in with both legs cut off gasping for your last breath.

[daredtowork]

76. The way the system works against poor people

If you are too poor to afford your own doctors, you have to see the doctors that Social Security sends you to.

These doctors see you very briefly and only test range of motion. They don't take medical history, do tests, or address pain or internal issues in any way. They are basically a set up to reject you.

If you are wealthy, you use your own doctors, see them often, and amass a pile of documentation.

[John_Doe80004]

24. in my last post i forgot to expand

on what a previous poster alluded to. yes there is in fact a continuing disability review every 3 years or every 7 years based on which category your disability fits into. i'm every 3 years, although i don't understand why, it's not likely that i'm going to improve only likely i will get worse as the years progress. but that CDR is not just a rubber stamp review and approval. you need to fill out two batches of paper work. one batch has 5 double sided sheets, the other 10 double sided sheets, they also request your medical and mental health records from each physician you see for the previous 12 months then they take 3-5 months to study all this data they have on you and issue a decision. you are not guaranteed a rubber stamp renewal you are basically reapplying for benefits every 3 or 7 years and there is a very real chance of getting the rug pulled out from under you. you can appeal it role the dice and keep your benefits during the appeal but if an ALJ finds for SSA you have to pay all that money back you got during your appeal period. if you choose not to appeal you have 2 months to get employment before losing all your benefits. and here is the kicker if you go back to work while receiving benefits and manage to stay gainfully employed passed the 9 month trial period you lose the cash benefit but get to keep your medicare health insurance for up to 8 years, if they find during a review that you are now considered able to work under their rules you lose everything cash benefits and medicare/medicaid. as for fraud there is a OP elsewhere on this forum about the guy committing disability fraud on his own without inside help. this is an extremely rare exception that is if it is even true to begin with. i will tell you that SSA has direct access from their offices to every state and federal government database to do record matching. this is no longer the old days. they catch discrepancies extremely fast now and make correction or initiate investigations if they find discrepancies in the data you provide vs what they find with database record matching. they have those tools plus when neighbors find out you are on disability they often report on you constantly especially if you have an invisible illness that is not readily apparent to the casual observer. every verifiable prosecution for disability fraud i have seen to date involved inside help at many different levels of the process, lawyers, doctors, ALJ, etc. i have never seen a verifiable prosecuted instance of fraud to date that did not involve SSA employees. this is really a hot button issue for me and one i take personally when i see these fox news right wing myths about social security by right wingers on social media, tv, radio, etc. this is the end of my two part rant on the subject in this thread. i hope i was able to dispel some of the right wing fox news myths with the story of my own experiences.

thank you

sincerely

John Doe 80004

[daredtowork]

28. Yep, constantly having to "prove it". nt

[Texasgal]

22. I did not mention this in the other thread

but I feel like I should in this one. I try not to open up too much about my private life here on DU. But here goes:

My husband has been in stage three and now close to four liver failure for many years. He is currently undergoing all the rigorous testing to get listed on a transplant list. He is also at stage four kidney failure and will need a transplant for that as well.

he worked his highly physical job up until April after his Transplant doctors told him him that he could no longer work and that if he didn't stop they would not list him. We've just finished a horrid bout of Hepatic Encephalitis that had him laid up in the hospital for three days. We are currently under FMLA that allows him his insurance although no income for 90 days. Medicaid will take two years. We applied for SSDI. with an attorney. Again, no income for him and we have paid what his amount of employee insurance. We are now searching for an Obama care plan, otherwise we are screwed and his place on the list will be lost.

Let me explain, the atty was needed because we are not educated on how SSDI works. The atty told us that with his health issues that he will qualify but there is a minimum of five months waiting period to get approved and even then we are not sure it will happen. If this is the case we will sue to get his benefits. One of his meds is over 500.00 a month! He takes 32 pills a day just to maintain.

My husband has worked since he was 15 years old. He is 57 years old. He is a good tax paying citizen. We sold our home and are now renting a small condo, we are doing everything possible to cut expenses and get him transplanted and well. We also must travel to another city over two hours away to his transplant center because there is not one here in Austin.

He has worked his ass off all of his life and is now very sick and has paid into this system. I grow weary of people that think we are just trying to buck the system or trying to fuck anyone over. He has paid his dues, and now it's time.

I realize that fraud happens but let me just say that our "money grubbing" atty wouldn't and couldn't be able to sue or fight for us without the proper documentation. To obtain SSDI is NOT an easy process and I find it ridiculous that we are having to even WAIT this long! Plus, I am pissed off that I had to hire representation anyway! I am blessed with a decent career, thank goodness! Not rich, but can afford food and an internet connection! I do not drive a BMW and I have a small amount of money saved. We live simply and not lavishly.

For ANYONE that thinks that it's an easy process and that too many buck the system come walk a mile in my shoes.

[daredtowork]

25. I have to say...I feel sooo sorry you live in Texas. T_T

I think if you lived in California, the Medi-cal (Medicaid) end of this would have been instantaneous, and it's possible the SSDI would have been a lot faster because of the precarious state of your husband's health.

I'm not sure what the 5 month wait is about, but a lawyer probably would have been necessary in either State, and it was a smart thing to get one up front.

This is such a terrible story. If you weren't already on a transplant list, I'd urge you to try to leave the State for a more "socialist" one.

[Texasgal]

26. Oh, let me say it sucks!

I never thought we would ever be in this type of situation ever!

We are in a difficult situation.

But.. even living in Texas we still are still due federal SSDI. Medicaid and Medicare is another issue all together unfortunately.

[daredtowork]

29. Hopefully the case won't go to appeal and need to be decided by a Texas judge. T_T nt

[independentpiney]

40. I'm very sorry to hear about your husbands condition

Has your attorney mentioned if your husband qualifies for the compassionate allowance http://www.ssa.gov/compassionateallowances/cal_faqs.htm#a0=6 ? because his condition is on the list. That could expedite the time it takes for the approval.

[daredtowork]

66. Interesting

That's great that there is a way to expedite claims.

On the other hand, I'm wondering if this is why non-expedited conditions went to an even longer (three year...) wait list?

[me b zola]

27. K&R

[Dems to Win]

30. People applying for/on SSI MUST have family and friends to help

A couple of years ago, a friend lived with me for five months while her application for SSI was processed.

My brother is being supported by my parents while he applies for SSI.

Truth is, the support provided by SSI is so difficult to obtain, so cumbersome to access, that people who REALLY need it and deserve it must be supported by friends and family while waiting.

This is an inadequate safety net by any standard. We should be expanding and improving Social Security, including the disability portion. Go Bernie GO!

[daredtowork]

31. You are lucky it only took 5 months

People started looking at me like I was making excuses after a year. Then it was two years. Then it was three years.

And it's up to YOU to figure out how to survive all that time while you are proving you are unable to work!!!

The fact is many of the people who need it most don't have those family and friends. They turn to welfare, which is inadequate to keep people in shelter. They become homeless. Because welfare is not enough to keep people on "life support" for three danged years! (because Republicans don't want people to be able to "depend" on it).

If you press Republicans on it, they will also say that a disabled person should stay with friends and family while applying. These same people also think that the homeless have "friends or relatives" to be reunited with. They always think that people on the street can be pawned off on somebody - that somebody by birth or blood can be forced to take responsibility, and if they don't, the homeless person can be accused of not "behaving" in such a way that they will be accepted back into some fold.

Waaaaaaay far back behind this idea is the model of the patriarchal family and a Powerful Father Figure who will be providing convenient family structures as an alternative to taxpayer-funded government institutions. Kind of like the Duggars.

[Dems to Win]

32. Whoa. I hadn't realized I was lucky in any way. (chuckle)

Yes, I agree it is ridiculous that people MUST rely on friends and family during the application time. If it were a real safety net, it wouldn't work that way. People would be able to stay in their own home while applying for disability benefits.

I want to send good wishes and best of luck to all SSI applicants and recipients, including JohnDoe_80004, TexasGal, deurbano and your daughter, and you too daredtowork. People like me who have been near the system know that you are working very, very hard just to obtain what is due to you. I know how exhausting it can be.

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

[DonCoquixote]

79. Took me three years

AND, I had a lawyer that was able to escalate the matter out of Florida. Part of me wants to try part time, but why risk the medicines I need to literally live all because some employer decides I am expendable ammo anyway?

[yeoman6987]

54. Republican politicians think because they went to school

And ran for office and now live a decent life everyone should. What is dumb about that is that only about 3 thousand people are elected to office at a time in all forms of government. How on Earth could everyone do that? I couldn't. I do have an MBA so I have a decent job but I couldn't run for office as I would piss everyone off because I don't take BS. Everyone is an individual and doesn't have the same chances or even desires to do what the politicians do.

[Enthusiast]

33. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[JonLP24]

36. It is very difficult to get it

Outside of mental health reasons you need to have worked enough to even get a little bit of money if disabled before retirement age and everyone I know is rejected on the first try but the only reason a law firm will take the case is if they have a good chance because otherwise they're burning time and not to mention their own money. I've heard of a judge tell someone to get a desk job in their case.

[daredtowork]

43. Automatic rejection saves money for the State at the expense of the disabled

But no one asks what the disabled are surviving on while that penny-pinching is going on. Often it's utter poverty. As I mentioned in my OP: they go on to welfare, become homeless. Some deaths are the result - from suicide as well as illness/disability-related causes.

Is this the group of people that should be absorbing the brunt of the State's financial problems?

[jwirr]

62. There is an exception for persons who have never worked due to a disability. My daughter gets

Social Security under her father's social security number. But she had to wait until he retired. Until then she was eligible for SSI when she turned 18. And before that we lived on welfare so that I could take care of her.

[Utopian Leftist]

38. The poor are the last,

socially acceptable scapegoats.

It's tragic. And the CONS are laughing all the way to the bank.

[daredtowork]

45. It's bad enough that we have to constantly combat Republican lies

But why do we have to put up with those same Faux News Facts here on DU?

More than one person here who otherwise claims to be staunch Democrat will start spouting off about SSI/SSDI fraud: first will come the few sensational cases they spotted in the news (half the time that the vaguely invoked "disability" wasn't even SSI/SSDI), and then will come the stories of how they "know someone" who is getting away with something.

In the end it's because Republicans, and perhaps Democrats as well, have been planting the idea that SSI/SSDI is "stealth welfare", and Americans are petty and mean-spirited when it comes to welfare. They think if there was some floor where people could land and get their act together to pivot back to work, they would just stay on the floor. So their brilliant idea is to pull out the floor and leave people falling into empty space instead.

That's the reason we've had a crisis in homelessness since the 1980s. It's not Reagan closing mental health facilities: it's Clinton's "welfare reform as we know it". It's because people don't have a last resort for rent or places to stay! Even if you're not mentally ill, you can't magically summon housing if you are unemployed and can't pay rent!

So as Social Services is trying to use SSI in particular to get more homeless people housed now, chiefly by identifying mental illness, Republicans (and probably some Blue Dog and DINO Democrats) have been looking askance and thinking: "Is their mental illness that they didn't work and became homeless...?"

Or perhaps another way of looking at this is the experience of homelessness has a way of exacerbating mental illness. Either way, I think it's safer to say the State actually contributed to inflicting part of the "mental" aspect of this problem on people, and it would be dreadful if the end of this story is herding them into institutions when the beginning of the story was simply that people need some form of income for shelter. And our economy is actually predicated on keeping at least 6 percent unemployed.

Americans will never stop being jerks about welfare. That's why I think mincome is necessary: to hide the stigma when people need a fallback position.

[totodeinhere]

60. When you see comments like that be sure to call them on it. And in many cases it's something you can

alert on, especially if it seems that the poster is just here to cause disruptions.

[daredtowork]

65. I attempted to alert on a lie

The poster attempted to claim that people "he knew" got away with SSI/SSDI fraud because SSI/SSDI only did one review. I called him on the lie and gave him a couple links to review schedule information. The Jury said to just discredit it in the thread.

The problem with discrediting it in the thread is he ignored the discrediting and doubled down on his lie, and just complained about "personal attacks" on his character. The other main water carrier for "SSI fraud" propaganda showed up in that thread. Who knows where else they will go to insinuate this lie and create a meme that OTHER people will carry forth? It doesn't work to discredit it in the thread once it's become an article of faith that certain people are trying to plant everywhere and insinuate into the Democratic party platform.

That's why I wrote this OP. I would like Democrats of good conscience to stand forth and nip this meme in the bud. We should hold ALL our Primary candidates accountable to protect SSI/SSDI and make sure that "Fox Facts" are kept out of the Democratic agenda.

[totodeinhere]

70. Alerting is always a crap shoot. And I'm not sure if merely lying is something to

alert on or not. But if the person is obviously here to cause trouble then I think you can at least attempt to alert on them. Some times it will work and sometimes not.

[appalachiablue]

95. The ugly truth and it's obscene, evil.

[Go Vols]

46. It can be much more than $900.00 per month

If you are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI, or sometimes just SSD) benefits, the amount you receive each month will be based on your average lifetime earnings before your disability began. It is not based on how severe your disability is or how much income you have. Most SSDI recipients receive between $700 and $1,700 per month (the average for 2015 is $1,165). However, if you are receiving disability payments from other sources, as discussed below, your payment may be reduced.
Calculating Your Social Security Disability Payment

The amount of money you will receive from Social Security on a monthly basis is unique for every individual. This is due to the fact that the Social Security Administration (SSA) uses a complex weighted formula in order to calculate benefits for each person, up to the maximum benefit of $2,663 (in 2015).

http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/how-much-in-ssd.html

[totodeinhere]

59. In some cases that's true, but the general drift of what the OP said is sadly very true. n/t

[daredtowork]

64. Since I'm only eligible for SSI, that's why I use the "under $900" figure.

It's harder to get SSDI that it sounds - it depends on the timing relative to when you last worked as well as how many quarters you worked. So if you lived off of your savings and attempted to get work for a long time before giving up, then you're screwed for SSDI.

I'm not sure why you'd be proposing the maximum, either. Even when people approach retirement age, long gaps of unemployment, time off for education, child-bearing, etc. can create life-patterns that create lower levels of Social Security than the max.

[Go Vols]

90. I mentioned the max limit

because I get SSDI and its closer to the max than $900.00 is.

[daredtowork]

91. I would imagine you're the exception rather than the rule, though. nt

[jtuck004]

55. A vote for a politician that sees SS as an expense is like cutting your own throat, but a slower

death. n/t

[daredtowork]

63. Death of a thousand financial cuts?

It's such a horrible joke because it's literally true.

[TexasTowelie]

57. K&R.

I'm going through nearly everything that you described in your OP. The worst part is that with some chronic conditions such as diabetes SSDI can be denied if the disease is not under control, yet other programs such as indigent care limit the availability of medication such that it is not possible to get the disease under control.

The quality of medical care in general is also questionable. There have been times when I waited for three hours to see a physician for a check-up that lasted about five minutes. As frustrating as that is if you don't keep your regularly scheduled appointments then it can work adversely against your claim if you skip those appointments.

[totodeinhere]

58. I have one addition to your comment.

You mentioned that "the recipients live in poverty in major urban areas." That's only partially true. There are a lot of recipients living in rural areas as well. There is plenty of poverty in rural areas too. And poverty in the suburbs is also increasing.

[daredtowork]

61. I stand corrected

My thought was that rent is higher in urban areas, but it would be harder to get housing at all in rural areas. And on top of that, living on around $800/month is POOR no matter where you are!

It would be great if you could elaborate more on what it's like to be living on SSI in rural areas, if you have personal experience of the subject. I would imagine it's well nigh impossible to access major services you need.

[totodeinhere]

69. I personally am not on SSI. But a course I took recently covered the topic of

rural poverty and that's how I'm aware of it.

[daredtowork]

71. I grew up in a rural area

and I will probably end up back there (as much as I'm desperate to avoid that fate). Please do share what you learned.

The first thing that comes to mind is that in an emergency I can run to a nonprofit advocate here and get things taken care of. In a rural area, I'd have to rely on snail mail. There would be no public transportation. I'd be trapped. I may not even have Internet access - even if it exists, it would be expensive.

[totodeinhere]

81. Yes those are issues and it varies from place to place but it's especially bad

in the rural south. Low income people from the region are less likely to have Net access than from anywhere else. And they have less access to socials services. There are very few food banks and very few if any medical clinics that serve poor people. And there is a severe doctor shortage which impacts everyone let alone poor people. And as you said many of them have very limited access to any type of public transportation. And if you are a veteran the nearest VA clinic might be hundreds of miles away and for all practical purposes inaccessible. And the list goes on and on. If I had time I'd list more.

[daredtowork]

83. The more I hear about the VA system

The more ridiculous it gets.

IMHO, that needs to be integrated with Medicare.

[appalachiablue]

96. The recent article on DU about 900 eastern Kentucky residents being thrown off

SSDI last month because their case lawyer is under suspicion although he hasn't been approached yet. Three of the locals have committed suicide so far.

June 2015, In Eastern KY 900 Residents Are Suspended From SSDI.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026773764

June 2015, Appalachia Gripped By Hepatitis C Epidemic, Braces for HIV.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026779384
_____
One of the most enlightening, but disturbing articles I've read about the effects of the neoliberal system
besides Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco's book, "Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt" (2012) which examines the endless poverty in 4 communities: Pine Ridge, SD, Camden, NJ, Welch, WV and Immoleke, FL is:

*May 29, 2015, AlterNet, by Bill Fletcher, Jr.,
'Neoliberalism Has Created a New System of Dual Citizenship- for the Poor and the 1%' (*** Three Star).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016123602

[L0oniX]

73. Ah the smell of the 1% taking over the democratic party.

[daredtowork]

74. Let the disabled eat cake? nt

[AndreaCG]

78. I am awaiting the results of my disability exam

I'm not optimistic especially given what I've read here. The good thing is I should be able to get my pension in October or November. I'm recovering from a bad bipolar crisis with anxiety too last year. The meds seem to be working but I still need help. I have concentration problems still and some problems leaving the house. My doctor is trying to get me back into an outpatient program to assist me. In the meantime I'm burning through savings bonds. Like someone else here, I've worked all my life and shouldn't have to go through hoops to get help.

I didn't know you're not entitled to food stamps on disability. The two seem like they should go together.

[daredtowork]

82. The food stamp exclusion is only in California

Instead of food stamps there was a small bump in the dollar amount some years ago. $10.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/05/local/la-me-food-stamps-20100702

[TheKentuckian]

84. Fuckin A!

[mentalsolstice]

86. To clarify and kick this thread

I appreciate your posts about SSI/SSDI. However, there needs to be some clarification to your OP. SSI & SSDI are two different animals. For instance, SSDI does not pay out a max of $900, as it's totally a federal benefit, based upon what one has paid into the Social Security (there are recipients who can benefit from their parents or spouses inputs). I receive SSDI, and my benefit is well above $900. Like regular SSA benefits, the amount for SSDI received is based upon the amount paid in and the years worked. That said, it can be a low payment if you worked mostly at low wage jobs or fewer years, and higher if you worked higher paid jobs. My cousin, who waited tables, receives about $800 per month, while I receive over $1000 per month. And yeah, that sucks. She spent years on her feet working part-time at low wage jobs. OTOH I spent years (while paying off college loans) working 60+ hour weeks. Unfortunately, there is no equalizing formula. I really like your Mincome stance.

I was awarded SSDI on my first application that I wrote myself. The only thing I had to do was be examined by a Dr. of their choosing. Since then I have gone through several 3 year reviews. However, I consider myself lucky. So many deserving people have to go through the initial denial, hiring a lawyer, etc., and appeals. And once you're awarded SSDI benefits, you still have to wait 2 years to be eligible for Medicare...that really sucks.

In my case, my SSDI has helped us pay basic household bills, and gave us a peace of mind that I have Medicare. For many others in this country, it's not the case. I grind my teeth every day, thinking how we can better serve persons with disabilities...better health care, better housing, funds for basic needs like food.

And then there is the discrimination. When we apply for jobs, or park our cars in the space dedicated for us. And the way we're looked at generally, it's often obvious that people are not comfortable seeing us in public.

[mentalsolstice]

87. K&R

[daredtowork]

88. Thanks for your clarification

It's hard to know how much detail to go into before people start to yawn. It's hard enough to distinguish SSI/SSDI from Worker's Comp, VA disability, Police/Fireman disability, State disability, and various private plans when a politician just smirks about "disability fraud". At least SSI/SSDI are both managed by Social Security!

I feel like $900 is a fine figure to throw around, because SSDI probably won't be much more unless the recipient is so old they are about to get Social Security anyway.

But it seems to me it doesn't really matter because no one is making a huge fortune here.

[mentalsolstice]

89. Unfortunately DU yawns when it comes to persons with disabilities

We're the invisible minority.

[daredtowork]

92. BUMP for update concerning new phony SSI overpayments scandal

Breitbart is already all over the "billions lost".

Who is going to be the first at DU to start treating Breitbart as an article of faith?

[John_Doe80004]

93. here is the real reason for the attacks on Social Security Benefits

it's a pretty old article dated July 2011 but it is still none the less a very relevant article to 2015 events concerning social security.

http://www.sott.net/article/232087-Social-Security-Scam-Where-Did-the-2-5-Trillion-Surplus-Go

here is a quote from the article...

"The government's $2.5 trillion debt to Social Security is the real reason that so many politicians want to cut benefits. They are trying to find a way to avoid having to repay the looted money.... Given the fact that much of the surplus revenue from the 1983 payroll tax hike ended up in the pockets of the super rich in the form of income tax cuts, I propose a special tax on this group of taxpayers to recoup the missing Social Security money. The government used revenue from the Social Security payroll tax hike to fund tax cuts for the rich because that was where the money was. I think the government should recover the 'embezzled' money by taxing the rich."

[daredtowork]

94. Outstanding Find! There is no "Social Security Crisis" either...

All the GOP cranks running around and waving their hands about Social Security running out of money is because they themselves sabotaged the program.

I like the idea of repaying the tax cuts.

[appalachiablue]

97. Billionaire financier Pete Peterson has spent decades and millions trying to get his hands

on the SS trust money, like others, hence the RW lies, along with their barbaric ideology. No way cuts to these social programs should be part of the Dem. platform or agenda! I'm still not over the Catfood Commission damage from 2012, and the shocking video clip of Bill Clinton whispering to Paul Ryan outside Congress in 2012 that if he needed any 'help with SS' just let him know. Appalling.

In the 80s I worked with the disabled, elderly and supported the ADA. Even got invited to a WH Conference on the Disabled where Ted Kennedy Jr. spoke and Ted Sr. was in the audience.

Just lift the Cap as Bernie and others have been saying!

[daredtowork]

98. Do you have link to that video?

The worst part of this is you know a lot of rw money is behind all the media fury about "fraud and waste" and thus all the overblown bureaucracy that creates a raison d'etre for cuts in the first place! It's a deliberate long term plan! And the whole thing is conducted at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable citizens in America, who are driven into homelessness as the politicians split the pork amongst their cronies.

[appalachiablue]

99. Absolutely, the RW stink tanks and spinners keep all the lies circulating at the top and

it's done irreversible harm for many. A longtime friend and I were discussing politics a couple years ago, she said she thought SS needed reform, then a few minutes later told me that she liked Bernie! Brainwashed. The Simpson-Bowels duo sent out by the WH for their speaking tour unfortunately confused many good, open minded people. But those two made speakers fees around 70K for every appearance, a nice addition to Their own retirement funds!

About the BC video, I wish I had a link. Searched and searched a few months ago, will try again, let you know. I either saw it on Thom Hartmann or MSNBC, most likely the former. There are many items that get scrubbed from the interwebs as we know.

[daredtowork]

100. If it was Hartmann, I hope he reruns it.

No joke about padding their own retirement funds! That's the thing that makes me the most angry. And now Hillary is framing it as: she wants everyone to have the same opportunities she has had and/or her daughter has had.

Well we won't get those opportunities if we don't even have stable housing! That's why the New Democrat platform (and Hillary's!) is full of fail! How does education vouchers and childcare help if you don't even have the basics of food and housing under you next? Who will hire you if you are frazzled, running from appointment to appointment, run ragged by the poverty bureaucracy, depleted of the "new skills" because you haven't been positioned to take advantage of that education yet?

A lot of those "opportunities" offered to women, minorities, and disadvantaged people are fake anyway. Last year Google did a big press release about how they were offering vouchers to their coding academy to disadvantaged women. I didn't get one after I applied, so I tried to follow up on who did get them. Google then claimed most had been given out to "organizations" before the contest was even announced! Yet no one knew who these organizations were! Not one organization I was affiliated with had even heard of these vouchers. I've been asking other people about if ever since, and NO ONE ever got these vouchers.

You know what? I bet these vouchers went to female programmers Google was already training in India. Then they made the big PR announcement to try to get PR credit, hoping it would seem like they were investing in local disadvantaged neighborhoods.

The saddest thing is with Google's wealth, there is no reason they can't train and pipeline locally.

[appalachiablue]

102. I can believe that stunt about Google- Eric Schmidt, whew. I sense a lot of

HRC's followers are upper middle class and above, therefore very secure, and also many others who are unaware of the negatives. And her strong name recognition and history are what they are. I'll continue to check on the video.

[appalachiablue]

103. I'd venture that the esteem Ryan holds for Erskine Bowels and Clinton goes beyond

discussing childhood and health, as in Ryan's father who died early from heart disease which Clinton also has.
When Ryan's father died when he was a teenager, he and his mother got by with SS and help from other family members. The hypocrisy and ingratitude are very disturbing. Ryan works out aggressively, maybe compulsively in order to try to prevent the disease that took his father, my opinion since I've seen it in families with heart disease.

The Blaze, Jan. 27, 2013, "Paul Ryan: If Bill Clinton were President the Fiscal Crisis Would Be Solved".
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/27/paul-ryan-if-bill-clinton-were-president-the-fiscal-crisis-would-be-solved/

[appalachiablue]

101. This has to be the same occasion, but you can see where the video has been clipped

at the end when Clinton is wrapping up, speaking softly. That's when he said it. And what I saw was slightly different film with just the two of them close up, almost whispering, Clinton was offering 'help'. The piece I saw also did not have all the other figures and lights in the background. I'll keep checking, it was real and I was shocked.

[alarimer]

104. The fraud and waste is a drop in the bucket compared to fraud and waste in military spending.

Hasn't the military lost actual pallet-loads of millions of dollars at a time in Iraq?

The amounts lost alone would cover the entire SSI/SSDI program for years/

It's not that we shouldn't concern ourselves with waste and fraud; we should, but we should also recognize we will never eliminate it altogether, so we should focus on the biggest target: the military-industrial complex. That fraud and abuse there is many, many times worse than it is in programs that actually help people.