whether you believe it or not, corporations are the dominant force

[cali]

Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2015, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

in our politics and our culture. A few big corporations dominate the media, which forges a lot of public opinion. There are no barriers between corporations and government. The revolving door between government and the corporate world, isn't just a hoary cliche; it's fact. Privatisation, which we often see as some future threat, is in robust operation now.

Perhaps you recognize this, but don't see it as a major issue, or perhaps you think it's a.mixed bag- both for good and ill.

Personally, I think it's the biggest threat of our time. It negatively impacts everything from free and fair elections to the environment and climate change.

It's hard to talk about in a society so deeply rooted in capitalism over the public weal, and it's difficult not to fall into the usage of language which doesn't effectively describe the depth and breadth of the problem.

I'm not anti-capitalism. I support entrepreneurship. But if we don't move to change the current state of affairs, we're headed for disaster. That's one major reason I reject the formula for modern free trade agreements like the TPP: Quite simply, they cede even more power to corporations. That isn't debatable: it's just a fact.

[stonecutter357]

1. Are you telling me i didn't vote for who i wanted?

do you vote for who you want ?

[jwirr]

5. Voting did not have much effect during the bush years because voting and who has the power

are a trade off between voters and lobbyists.

[cali]

8. I'm telling you corporate money shapes our politics and elections from

the municipal level to the White House. I'm telling you that if we had publicly funded elections, we'd have greater choice. If a candidate can't raise enormous amounts of money- at least if running for federal office (with a handful of exceptions)- then that candidate has little chance. The candidate with the most money almost invariably wins. That money is corporate money even though it's often in the form of bundling when it is contributed to a candidate. In the case of candidate associated Super-PACs, it's even more blatant. And I'm telling you that this money is not unencumbered. None of this is controversial or disputed within democratic circles.

[daleanime]

13. How many choices were you 'presented'?

How much difference between them?

You can refuse to see it if you want, but I fail to see any advantage in denying reality.

[hueymahl]

26. This ^^^

A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich, even if you have the choice between white bread and whole wheat.

[Enthusiast]

46. Best answer.

[sulphurdunn]

25. I haven't voted for who I wanted

in any federal election since 1972, when I voted for George McGovern, and I've voted in every one since.

[appalachiablue]

2. K & R. Corporations are dominant, very unhealthy & dangerous, understatement.

Like the military, religion or monarchy in other times, corporatism now controls almost every aspect of our lives. And neoliberalism and privatization are bearing down on us hard now.

[Jefferson23]

3. 1996 Telecommunications Act. That is only one of the monsters with a harmful and damaging legacy.

What percentage of Americans are aware of the disastrous results?

Sanders is sounding the alarm, how many take heed, we'll have to wait and see.

[jwirr]

4. When I call my representives and senators here is exactly what I say: I want you to oppose the TPA

and the TPP (or some other bill) because it does not make sense to give corporations more power. They already have too much. I have yet to find a congress person who does not understand this.

[City Lights]

6. Yep. Corporations rule the world.

It sucks and I wish there was something we could do about it.

[Oneironaut]

7. Corporations are not bad. They just need to be regulated.

The problem is the corruption they create. They're slightly poisonous to governments. I believe that they can be controlled, though.

[cali]

9. they can be very bad, and less frequently, not so bad, but as their bottom line is the

bottom line, the tendency is toward the detrimental unless, as you point out, they are well regulated. There is no evidence that at this moment, they are being controlled.

[Oneironaut]

10. I always think of them as a gigantic, angry monster.

Only an idiot would let the monster out and say, "We're not going to watch you, but you'll behave yourself, right?" That's what we're doing now.

[newthinking]

15. It is very easy. Corporations are a legal concept. Change the definition just slightly

such as require their boards to consider the public welfare.

Done deal. There is no reason that we cannot change what is a legal construct. Question is: Why haven't we?

[Whiskeytide]

21. I think the answer is that...

... corporate lobbyists control the political process. They will simply not allow the government to redefine them if it means any loss ($, power, etc...) for their clients.

[Taitertots]

30. No. Corporations separate profits and liability for externalities

Everyone at every corporation makes their decisions safe in the knowledge that the money the made today is untrouchable, regardless of the negative reproacussions it caused. It's inherently bad. The corporate structure is inherently bad.

The perfect example of this is Dick Fuld. He collapsed Lehman and retired a hundred millionaire. We don't have a meritocracy, we have a cleptocracy.

[ladjf]

11. Money talks. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

40. It also writes legislation. nt

[ladjf]

41. I meant that money gets what it wants, including legislation or votes. nt

[BKH70041]

12. I think I've read this here from you before.

You'll vote for your convictions in the primary, but should your candidate lose and that hated corporate one wins, you'll flush your convictions down the toilet, hold your nose, and vote to continue the corporate plutocracy.

That's about it, right?

Because I've seen others here who will just as quickly flush their convictions who also support the one you support. Kinda makes it clear that they're very easy to buy off. Just threaten them with the dreaded "other" and here they come to pull that lever. Boy, that corporate plutocrat must not be as bad as advertised, except as compared to that other team.

Two thumbs up for any candidate who recognizes this and uses it to their advantage.

[newthinking]

18. I will vote for the democratic candidate regardless, however....

**This time**
But another round like the last where institutional bankers and corporatists are the primary advisors of the president, and it will convince me that maybe the "slower" decline is actually making us the frog in the kettle and will be worse in the long run.

Our forefathers understood that it requires a lot of pain before people actually are willing to seriously challenge and reform governments. If our money'd politicians won't do this than yes, in the long run it may be better not to participate in a false paradigm (or vote outside the parties on federal elections).

I am talking only the federal government. Local elections are a different thing. There is a local democracy movement afoot that may end up being the answer. For local governments to take back the country from the corrupt in Washington.

[BKH70041]

23. Perfect!

**Next time** will take care of itself.

Incidentally, that'll be when the same people say:

"I will vote for the democratic candidate regardless **This time**."

Some constitutions and groups can and will be ignored because they're reliable voters anyway. "Who else you gonna vote for?" I could say that to several dozen different groups at this site and it be true every time. The only conviction they truly hold is "Not them." Makes things really easy for the Party.

Ah, I love the smell of victory!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

20. Choices between two evils is really not a choice...

For the most of your argument... You are correct. We will support the dem choice. It's better than the alternative. It may not be the correct choice but it is safer, shall we say.

There is a revolution going on, participate or not. Your choice. Just don't slam the people who have seen a change is possible.

Please inform yourself about corporations and the wanton mess they create in this country. Then get back to here.

One choice, may be not your flavor but study it. You may change your mind.

http://endofcapitalism.com

[cantbeserious]

14. The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians And Media That Own And Control Us

eom

[marym625]

16. and BINGO was his name

[chknltl]

17. When democracy controls capitalism...

...both may flourish. When capitlism controls democracy, democracy withers and dies. I also feel that our own out of control capitalism is the root of humankind's greatest threats currently. The capitalists control not only the bulk of this world's economy, they also have control over the greatest military power this planet has ever seen.

(By democracy i am refering to the will of the citizenry. By capitalism i am refering to the exchange of labor and products as well as classic capitalism which is using capital, (money), to make more capital).

[Enthusiast]

44. +1

[kairos12]

19. Corporations are psychopaths my friends.

[rurallib]

22. if ever a thread needed a kick and a rec this is it!

[Whiskeytide]

24. I'm always reminded of the plot...

... from the Terminator movies when discussing corporatism. Except that the artificial life we have created and allowed to enslave humanity is not a computer defense network, it is the corporation. Obviously, we need to elect John Conner.

[NRaleighLiberal]

27. And money is the dominant language. And greed the dominant disease.

[hvn_nbr_2]

28. The primary central organizing factor of American society is...

corporate greed.

[Jack Rabbit]

29. What can we do about corporate control of the government?

Well . . . I have a suggestion . . . first, we get organized . . .
[center]

[/center][font size="1"]From the motion picture Frankenstein (Tod Browning, 1931)
via Movieclips.com
[/font]

[sulphurdunn]

31. There is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9

“We will free people. This great, powerful nation is motivated not by power for power's sake, but because of our values. If everybody matters, if every life counts, then we should hope everybody has the great God's gift of freedom. And the biggest value we hold dear is the value of freedom. As I said last night, freedom and liberty, they are not America's gifts to the world. They are God's gift to humanity. We hold that thought dear to our hearts.” GW Bush

"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid.
As a nation we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.'
When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy hypocrisy." A. Lincoln

Of course, Lincoln never fled to Russia, and neither will we.

[staggerleem]

32. I don't necessarily agree that it's "difficult to talk about".

First, ask how the person you are talking to about "the commons" - that which is the shared "property" of all Americans, or all residents of a given state or municipality (e. g., national or public parks). See if he/she agrees that such a thing exists. If not, I think the conversation may be over, but if so, ask what they believe it should properly include. Suggest that a few things that we ALREADY see becoming privatized in some places (prisons, water) SHOULD be included. It's actually quite easy to explain why prison should NEVER be a for-profit business.

Ideally, prisons should serve TWO functions - (1) separating lawbreakers from society and (2) making some effort at rehabilitation so they do not offend again when/if they are released. A prison for profit can fulfill the first of those functions quite adequately, but there's an obvious conflict of interest on the 2nd, as recidivism is "good for business", even if it's bad for the rest of us.

Talk about how the city of Detroit, in an effort to attract a buyer for their municipal water supply, has turned off the water to households that are delinquent in their payments, but delinquent business (Joe Louis Arena, for example) still have water service. How on Earth is that fair, and how does it benefit the general welfare?

The entire concept of incorporation was INVENTED by Governments to encourage entrepreneurship and help isolate an individual's wealth (and, more importantly, liability) from that of the corporation. The Government grants corporate charters, and supposedly does so only if the corporation's business will do some public good. Governments can (and should!) also REVOKE corporate charters, if it is deemed that they are actually doing public harm. We appear to have lost this concept somewhere along the way - we MUST find it again!

A few other things must also be changed regarding how corporations are treated in America. States like Delaware MUST stop issuing corporate charters to any and all comers. It must be made clear that corporations are, legally, ARTIFICIAL persons (so they can commence legal action, and so legal action can be brought against them), and as such are NOT granted the all the same Constitutional rights as NATURAL persons (this will take either a Constitutional Amendment or a new Supreme Court decision that overturns SEVERAL older ones (Billotti, Citizens United, etc.)

So, really, talking about it is not all that hard. Getting some boneheads to LISTEN, on the other hand ...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Maybe we should try negotiating with them directly - and leave the highly paid middle men out.

Middle-men = politicians

[azmom]

34. Corporation lobbyist have bought off our government

Representatives. They only respond to money. It's corruption.

[kickysnana]

35. Howard Hughes showed them how to do it and we lost our country...

[raouldukelives]

36. It is not anti-capitalism to wish to retain a stable biosphere.

Heck, I consider myself a capitalist. I just don't consider our current system as something Adam Smith would lay claim to or support. I don't think it is capitalism, I think it is a corptocracy. Inverted socialism.

But I digress. Destroying the source of your capital is not a good way of running a business.

The investors care only about the money. The corporations are doing all they can to ensure the investors get the only thing they care about. Up to and including the end of life as we know it on this planet.

Seriously, no hyperbole needed.
The end of life as we know it.

Care about not tanking the economy? Sure, but only so there is no hiccup in the cash infusions from individuals unburdened by things like a moral compass.

They literally don't even care they are making the planet inhospitable to the very ecosystems and wildlife that have taken eons to evolve here.
Day in and day out they clock in and are humble servants in the gaze of those who not only do nothing of value but do all they can to ensure the truth is buried, that lipstick is applied heavily to the pig and that the thievery and willful destruction will continue until it cannot.

Corporate supporters don't care. About democracy, about minorities, about the environment, about the sick, about war machines, unless they can turn a profit off them.

All of our scientists tell us we are creating a hell for our children. This isn't hyperbole. So few of us are trying to give them a better future, so many are assuring they won't have any.

[NobodyHere]

37. If corporations are the dominant force

It's only because we the people allow it to be.

Very few Americans will say, "This candidate took corporate money, I won't for them."

[H2O Man]

38. Absolutely!

Definitely recommended.

Even on DU, people speak about corporations, and their unhealthy influence in things political, without thinking about the unwholesome control that these non-human entities have on almost every aspect of their daily lives.

I could easily go on a rant here .....and likely will .....but I'll read the other responses first.

Thank you for this OP -- you have been serving as the individual providing the most important information on the forum, in recent months. That includes factual information, and solid opinions ....a virtual feast of the "food for thought" that is the very best of DU. It is much appreciated.

[OneGrassRoot]

39. Truth. K&R n/t

[SusanCalvin]

42. Of course I believe it.

Who doesn't? Question is, what can we do about it?

[Enthusiast]

43. Oh, I believe it.

We need to rein in corporate influence.

[Recursion]

45. Whether you like it or not they will remain so

That took 80 years to build and will take at least as long to tear down. It's a question of what kind of corporatist system you want. Even President Sanders doesn't change that.