(VIDEO) Hillary on why her White-voter support means she should get the nomination.

[Bonobo]

There is a lot of finger-pointing going on about Bernie Sanders and his appeal only to White voters and it seems the irony is lost perhaps on those who do not remember the 2007 Primaries.

But don't listen to me. Watch the video below. Look at that and think and then tell me who is likely playing people against each other, weighing votes and racial politics...

Watch Keith Olberman explain it as it was happening. It was a disgusting bit of racial politics and the fact that Hillary and her supporters are trying to turn it against a completely undeserving Sanders is precisely BECAUSE they know now that it hurt them. You are looking at very carefully choreographed and well-studied politics at play. The player is Hillary and the played is the people.

[Bonobo]

1. Come on, let's have some comments.

I mean, 400 comments on a thread where all Bernie did was say that people shouldn't vote based on race.

Surely this is worth some commentary.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

7. You are right.

But it's very sad that we are going there. I guess since people are slinging mud on Bernie, i.e. trying to intimate he's a racist when clearly he is the opposite and has been all his life.

If we have to go there to defend him, then I suppose it's a fair statement that the only Democratic presidential candidate who has been willing to use race as a wedge issue is Hillary Clinton. You'd have to go back to George Wallace in the 60s. I don't believe she is a racist, but I believe the issue calls her character into question once again.

[Cheese Sandwich]

9. Is it possible maybe she didn't know the microphone was on?

Wouldn't that kind of explain it ?

[jeff47]

12. Pfft. That was 2008. That doesn't count. She's spent her life fighting for minorities now (nt)

[uponit7771]

18. Bullshit, Bernie said blacks were proud America had overcome racism and vote for Obama and that's

... tin eared toned deaf ass'd statement.

He didn't just say we shouldn't vote based on race which few of the electorate does on the dem side seeing Gore got 90% of the black vote and Kerry lost some of that the election after

[Bonobo]

19. Sounds like someone read the carefully and artfully cherry-picked remarks out of context. nt

[merrily]

2. Her 2008 primary tactics are one of three important reasons she is not my candidate.

In 2007, though, before I was aware of any of the dog whistles that her campaign used again and again, I picked Obama as my candidate strictly because I thought he had a much better chance of winning the general than she did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. We are going down the exact same path

as some of us predicted.

This I see as the talking points testing stage.

[Bonobo]

6. I totally agree. Throw shit on the wall and see if anything sticks stage. nt

[NCTraveler]

25. If nothing else, I love your willingness to admit this. nt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I think you misunderstood.

Same shit, different minority candidate to smear by the Clinton fans. For the record I got absolutely no horse in this race, well except big money. So it is what it is.

This is back to the 2008 race, and it is ugly.

[NCTraveler]

39. I am terribly sorry Nadine. That post of mine was not meant for you.

Sorry for the mix up. I'm glad you commented or I would not have known. It truly had nothing to do with your post.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. That is ok

I see this place going down that same road.

In 2008 I thought it was horrible. Now I know that once those whistles become more constant. I am taking my leave, quite permanently.

DU is a time sink, but chiefly I do not support racist sites. Yes, there I said it. I know the site is used for testing talking points. I expect to see some of these beauty's on the trail. Some that I guarantee will turn Jews away from HRC and if she gets the nomination more than one will stay home.

Granted, she can afford to lose them given the numbers in the population. But many will be looking for visas to somewhere else. When both national parties embrace this crap, time to at the very least consider leaving.

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. In this video she totally conflates "hard working" with "white"

To me it sounds like this implies other people are not hard working.

In her own words, caught on tape:

[Bonobo]

5. Yes, she defines that "hard working Americans' is synonymous with "White Americans"

There is no other way to describe what she does in that video.

Don't believe me? Watch it yourself, everyone.

If you are a native English speaker, that is the inescapable conclusion and frankly, it is one of the few times I think she is actually speaking from the heart.

[Cheese Sandwich]

8. To me it sounds like a calculated political dog whistle meant to appeal to southern white voters

As a one-time fake southerner herself, she understands how southern politics work, including the value of subtle racist dog whistles.

But I disagree that she was speaking from the heart because that would imply she has where she can do that.

It seems to me more a case of very skilled dog-whistle politics.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Come on Bo... Hillary has EVOLVED since then.

Or something...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

11. Let's see if she claims Bernie being Jewish is a problem and she has the Christian vote.

[2banon]

13. Wish I could locate the video links to her disgusting campaign appearances in Mississippi/Alabama

early on in the campaign, pretty sure it was in 2007 iirc.. I know it was broadcast on Cspan but I haven't been able to locate this in the archives. the disgust level is on par with this one (thanks for posting as important reminder) but worse, because she laid on that phony southern accent in Black Churches no less!! omg. it was a combination of disgust, bizarre, insult and bewilderment.

[dreamnightwind]

14. I just put one of DU's "star" posters on ignore

for refusing to back off of the "Bernie doesn't care about race" line. Very sad that they are doing this, as it clearly is not true.

I've seen suspect behavior like you are referencing, but I say let's not go there against her, I don't actually think she is a racist, she's someone that will do anything to win is what I think.

What gets me is Bernie's policies, IMO, will do much more for people of color than anything they will get from Hillary (mostly optics), unless they are people of color in positions of power in large financial corporations. I hope most people can see through this.

It is good for us to keep pointing out how Bernie's positions will help people of color, and all who are struggling to make it in this country, which is disproportionately people of color. I realize racism persists even in contexts of economic opportunity, we shall have to keep fighting that battle, hopefully Bernie will clearly put the lie to their claims that he doesn't care. Progress on economic issues is no after-thought for people of color, for most of them it is very high on the list of problems they are dealing with.

[aspirant]

20. Disagree

This is where we put to rest these bashing potential talking points.

We have to have Bernie's back so we don't lay all this nonsense in his lap. Let him maintain his higher focus while we develop rebuttals that swat away all these bothersome mosquitoes and gnats

[dreamnightwind]

22. OK, go for it, if that's how you want to play it

I do think it's wise to push back against what is clearly a well-orchestrated attempt by the Clinton campaign to position her as the candidate of choice of people of color. I guess when she so clearly is funded by megadonors who expect returns on their investments, what that leaves her is the social issues that don't cost the donors anything. I find it entirely disingenuous, I think she will do precious little to help people of color, but she will go to great lengths to appear to be listening to them and to speak about them, while painting Bernie as a white male who doesn't care about people of color or women's issues.

Sadly, she has the campaign infrastructure to catapult this propaganda. I think Bernie will do more for people of color, and the women I respect on this site are Bernie supporters, so that tells me something, though she will certainly get a lot of support from female voters, as Obama did from african americans.

I think where I get uncomfortable with the push-back is when we start implying that the Clintons are racists. It's possible that they are, seems more likely to me that they are just not above using dog-whistle politics when it suits their electoral goals.

But I think I agree with your main point, and thank you for making me think about it more, we can help Bernie by pushing back on this disingenuous strategy the Clinton camp is employing.

Their strategy is manifesting everywhere at once, clearly orchestrated, and Bernie deserves better, he absolutely cares about the interests of everyone, but most of all he cares about the interests of the people fighting the longest odds, which is of course what it's all about, and is something I would never say about Hillary.

[aspirant]

23. We are TEAM Bernie

and I thank you for listening

[heaven05]

45. So the racial concerns of POC

are like bothersome mosquitoes and gnats. That should win some more POC to Bernies side..... HITF could you say something like that?????

[virtualobserver]

52. evidence of Bernie's racist past

http://imgur.com/GBIdWTW

[heaven05]

53. never said he was a racist

I know he's not racist, some of his supporters give me pause though..

[virtualobserver]

54. I was attempting irony......

I just feel that any examination of his record makes it clear

that as far back into his past or as close to the present that you look,

I can find no flaw, no inconsistency.

Hillary only wishes that she had a record like his.

[heaven05]

56. this is true

especially with hillary's political and social record and history. Ten four on the irony....

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

15. See the contrast

of how the Clinton message is twisted and ugly much like it was in 2007.

See the dishonesty, the gall. See the desperation.

Then watch Bernie and things appear very clear as to who is the better person, the better campaign and the better message.

That other thread really opened my eyes at how far people will go to support a dishonest and twisted campaign. Thankfully there wasn't much support there in that confusing sickness.

[Betty Karlson]

16. My feelings exactly.

Although some of your words are a bit harsh, my feelings and yours are the same. And I understand your impatience for this twisted narrative to die.

[Bonobo]

17. I wonder if Hillary was guilty of myopia here...

[aspirant]

21. Myopia maybe,

more like cross-eyed

[NCTraveler]

24. "tell me who is likely playing people against each other"

Easy as could be http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026634558

[BeyondGeography]

26. Obama got over it pretty quickly, so did the many black leaders who presently support her

Campaigns are bar fights and she went close to the line, some might say she crossed it a few times. Bill certainly did with his lame Jesse Jackson comparison after SC.

You could also say she tested Obama in ways that came in handy during both of his presidential campaigns. Wouldn't surprise me if he saw it that way, too. This was the first African-American in history with a chance for the White House. Race-based appeals to white voters were going to happen, even in a Democratic primary.

Another pretty straightforward point is she will bring that same level of tenacity to the general against the Republicans. That's a good thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Never mind, pardner, I echo your sentiments./Nt

[BeyondGeography]

31. This was part of the story, too, IIRC

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. She was a lot more gracious than Ted Kennedy in 1980 who I genuinely admired...

Some here complain she continued to campaign after the primary was "lost" . In 1980 Ted Kennedy waged a floor fight to have delegates released from their pledge on the first ballot after going into the Convention down about two delegates to one.Selective outrage!!!

As an aside the campaign did get nasty and HRC probably did go places where she shouldn't have but that's why zero sum games should be avoided among friends.

But Hillary and Bill know how to use sharp elbows. She isn't going to be a patsy for the Republicans.

[BeyondGeography]

33. It was an exhausting campaign and I have no desire to re-litigate it

And many Democrats feel the same way, IMO. Hillary gave as good as she got, which was a defeat that would level the average human being for life, and she was a team player in the end. That counts for a lot, if you're being fair-minded at all. And most people are.

Bernie's style is to stay issues-based, which is a good fit for what his candidacy brings and for most of the voters who will give him a hearing. These blasts from the past are going nowhere.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I was an ardent HRC supporter in the primaries and became an ardent supporter of BHO in the general.

I was an ardent HRC supporter in the primaries and became an ardent supporter of BHO in the general and remain an ardent supporter of his much to to the chagrin of some of my fellow "Democrats" on this board.

[JI7]

34. plus the relationship the Clintons have with minority

communities are very deep and developed through decades and hard work. There is a world outside of primary elections.

Even during the primary and right after many wanted Obama to make her vp.

There is a reason her numbers are so high among them.

[LondonReign2]

40. Ah, I see. Hillary was doing Obama a *favor* by using racist dog whistles

[BeyondGeography]

42. Bullshit paraphrasing aside, it was all in the game and the proof is she wasn't hurt by it at all

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/us/politics/hillary-clinton-embraces-racial-issues-in-departure-from-2008.html?_r=0

...Making the issue broader than a Southern state grappling with racism and its Confederate roots carries some risk for Mrs. Clinton, who relied heavily on the support of white working-class voters in 2008 in critical states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. In that nominating race, in addition to her husband’s remarks that set off anger among African-Americans, an important supporter of hers, Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania, said he believed many of his state’s “conservative whites” were “probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate.”

But Mrs. Clinton appears not to have suffered any lingering resentment among black voters. In fact, some of her strongest support now comes from African-Americans. About 57 percent of black respondents said they had a favorable opinion of Mrs. Clinton, compared with 30 percent of whites, according to a New York Times-CBS News poll conducted April 30 to May 3.

Mrs. Clinton, who since leaving the White House has been surrounded by a cadre of African-American female aides, has showed comfort and fervor in discussing racism...

[Thinkingabout]

27. Who do you consider is hard working Americans?

Why can't it be white Americans are not as hard working? The problem is trying to search for something to excuse the groups who are gathering for Sanders rallies is still not excused, it happens over and over, you need a better argument.
You can pick and choose words, leave out words and the argument will still not be truthful.

"Hillary on why her White-voter support means she should get the nomination." thread title should read "Hillary on why her hard-working Americans and white American support means she should get the nomination".

Lies like this will not get Bernie elected.

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. The way she says it excludes people of color from the category of hard working people

She makes it sound like white people are the only ones working hard.

See:

[Thinkingabout]

37. Quiet the opposite, she said hard working Americans first and then she said white Americans.

Also, saying white Americans without college education was the ones weakening and voting for Hillary was the talking points used at the time of the election in 2008. See you pick out certain sentences, certain words and them you draw the wrong conclusion, who in the hell do you think this is fooling? It sure isn't a lot of the Americans who was aware of the 2008 election.

[Cheese Sandwich]

43. How to recognize an appositive when you see one.

An appositive is a noun or noun phrase that renames another noun right beside it. The appositive can be a short or long combination of words. Look at these examples:

During the dinner conversation, Clifford, the messiest eater at the table, spewed mashed potatoes like an erupting volcano.

My 286 computer, a modern-day dinosaur, chews floppy disks as noisily as my brother does peanut brittle.

Genette's bedroom desk, the biggest disaster area in the house, is a collection of overdue library books, dirty plates, computer components, old mail, cat hair, and empty potato chip bags.

Reliable, Diane's eleven-year-old beagle, chews holes in the living room carpeting as if he were still a puppy.

http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/appositive.htm


Of course you will notice that is how Mrs. Clinton used the words.

"I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on," she said in an interview with USA TODAY. As evidence, Clinton cited an Associated Press article "that found how Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm

[Thinkingabout]

46. Okay, now that you are promoting your english teaching days, go back and look at the sentence

again.

hard working Americans, (notice the comma) white Americans.

The first was to say hard working Americans, do you know any hard working Americans?

Next is white Americans, do you know any white Americans?

[Cheese Sandwich]

49. No, I do remember learning that in school though.

That's the meaning of what she said. Maybe she mis-spoke or something but I doubt it.

[Thinkingabout]

50. Maybe the article is wrong, miswrote.

[Cheese Sandwich]

51. It's quoted in the recording

omg she's on tape. I get it. It's hard to admit that she said something like this.

[Thinkingabout]

55. Try reading the words again and listen also.

[Cheese Sandwich]

57. I'm still getting the same result. She is winning with "hard working Americans, white Americans".

Oh well

[Thinkingabout]

58. Now you got it.

[thesquanderer]

59. Any ambiguity about whether "white" and "hard working" were 1 or 2 things...

...could be cleared up by finding the AP article she was referring to.

[Cheese Sandwich]

60. I'm sure the poll had a category for white people.

They don't do polls where they separate out a category of "hard working Americans, white Americans"

That was Hillary's choice to say it that way.

[thesquanderer]

62. terminology

Of course there's no separate poll category of "hard working americans" -- but there are categories for things like "blue collar workers" or "employed full time" which, in discussion could be restated as "hard working americans" -- so in the original poll referenced by the AP (which HRC was talking about), if she were ahead in such a category AND ahead in a category of white Americans, then they would be two different things.

[Thinkingabout]

61. It is simple english.

[thesquanderer]

63. English can be ambiguous...

...especially when someone is speaking off the cuff, where people are frequently less precise, alter their thoughts in mid-sentence, mess up grammar...

We know she was referencing an AP article. If we could find that article, we would know whether she was intending to reference two different categories of people when she made that statement, or if she was indeed equating one with the other, simply by seeing whether the AP article discussed these as two separate groups. See my post #62.

[Thinkingabout]

65. As far as the information given in this video and even with the wording shown on the

video, it is simple English, to distort simple English by rewriting what Hillary said and come to the conclusion she said white hard working Americans when she said "hard working Americans, white Americans" is rewriting what she said. I don't understand why any other article, etc is going to help.

[thesquanderer]

66. Do you not see the ambiguity?

You quote her as saying "hard working Americans, (notice the comma) white Americans." There is no comma in actual speech. Her actual speech had an "uh" at that point, punctuation is at the discretion of the transcriptor. In addition to the "uh," the cadence of her voice in that transition also makes the connection betweem the two phrases unclear. If she meant them to be two different things, she should have used the word "and" which would have been proper grammar and would have removed ambiguity, but as I said, people do make these kinds of errors when speaking off the cuff, so I would not judge based on this.

Maybe she meant to say "hard working Americans and white Americans" or maybe it was more like "hard working Americans... and actually what I meant to say there was white Americans." And even the latter can be interpreted multiple ways, including something as innocuous as, "I mis-spoke, there were nothing in the AP article about hard-working Americans, that was just a political cliche that fell out of my mouth before I could stop it, so strike that."

The point is, if you want to show that she actually meant to talk about hard working and white Americans as two different groups for whom she was leading in the polls (and mistakenly left out the word "and&quot , the evidence would be in the AP article. The speech is ambiguous, but if the AP article showed her ahead among white people and also among "hard working" (i.e. full-time employed, or blue-collar) people (regardless of color), that would support that reading of her words. OTOH, if the article did not have such a distinction, then you need a different explanation for what she said... and one could come up with either an innocuous one (as I described) or a nefarious one (that "hard working" and "white" are synonomous for her, as others are suggesting). Yet another possibility is that the poll referenced in the article actually polled a group defined as something like "white, blue-collar workers" in which case HRC's statement is closer to accurate, though unartfully stated (starting with the one phrase and trying to modify it with the second).

[Cheese Sandwich]

67. Great analysis but

IMO the words are only ambiguous if you assume the possibility she might have mis-spoke.

If you assume she said what she meant, then the meaning is not ambiguous.

[Thinkingabout]

69. Why should I think she mis-spoke? Again, very simple english.

[Thinkingabout]

68. Since I see what she said in simple terms, no, I don't see the ambiguity.

When it is rewritten as in this post was implying perhaps this causes the ambiguity. Upon reviewing the information again and the ambiguity remained then perhaps the rewritten text is what someone wants to believe. As far as the AP article is a need for you then search for it, I do not need to see the AP article.

[thesquanderer]

70. I don't need to see the AP article.

I don't have a position, and I don't really care (and I'm for Sanders regardless). But for people to insist that those words must mean X while others say they must mean Y, both without seeing the AP article she says she is describing (which might actually give you more reason to believe one or the other), well that sounds to me more like people believeing what they want rather than caring what the reality is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. ...

[geek tragedy]

30. Probably the lowest moment of her political career, morally and otherwise.

That was a day when it became clear the Democratic primary had dragged on too long.

[LittleBlue]

44. Oh ho ho, where are the Bernie critics now?

[Thinkingabout]

47. Why not criticize Bernie, as many Bernie supporters say, it is the right thing to do,

criticize candidates.

[heaven05]

48. we better hope

we'll be 'strong enough', no matter our candidate, to keep another fascist administration of the type we had between 2000-2008 OUT of the WH. That's all I'm going to say about this degradation of party loyalty based on race. I don't like Hillary, as she has enough on her resume to scare me. I like Bernie, yet, he has a blind spot and yes "tin ear" as well as many of his ardent supporters who keep pushing the meme, "jobs will cure racism", "free education will eradicate racism" or even the laughable, they'll lessen racism. These two better get serious about the ugliness that all americans are facing in the arena of race relations and racism. And it AIN'T about any of the BS issues that both side are currently sparring over. It's race stupid!!!!!! And if america doesn't, in the end, give a damn about it and let's a repug racist in the WH, we will get what we vote for.

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

64. Maybe she will recyle that to: Hard working Americans, Christian Americans

Last edited Wed Jun 24, 2015, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

for this round. If she used racism in '08, why wouldn't she use the same tactic now against Bernie. Wait for it, if it hasn't already been nibbled around the corners already.

Hillary Clinton in '08, dog whistling that a black man is Less Than her, a white woman and especially appalling was Less Than the creepy Republican John McCain who she said was a better prepared for President than Obama was.

This is part of the problem of why President Obama is treated so harshly because he is Not White and doesn't really deserve his post. The ones whose ears are attuned to whistles remember this clearly and some of that blowing belongs to the Clintons.