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restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:25 PM Jun 2015

ok so if G-d loves and supports gay people,

and so called christians are being unkind, they are erring on the side of Mean when he wants them to be nice. If for some hypothetical reason (and this is meant to be a hypothetical based ethics discussion), G-d does not support gay people because he thinks they are sinning and so called christians are being kind to them anyway, they would be erring on the side of being Nice. Since the almighty has not dropped in lately to clarify this, why not err on the side of being nice? Jesus himself said he did not come to condemn the world but to save it. He said not to cast the first stone unless you are without sin. he said do unto to others as you would have them do unto you.

how is it these people keep getting away with calling themselves christian when they do the opposite of everything he told them to do??

my opinion for wiw, is if there is a god, i have no doubt he loves everyone.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ok so if G-d loves and supports gay people, (Original Post) restorefreedom Jun 2015 OP
In short, they are fakes. They use the veil of religion so as to practice their various RKP5637 Jun 2015 #1
Well said. WestSeattle2 Jun 2015 #2
Well, it's like this... (IMO) Freelancer Jun 2015 #3
Reactionaries have a history of taking the name of something good Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #4
The idea that there's some omnipotent, all-knowing, superpowerful magic being Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #5
"It’s past time for talking politics. It’s time to get right with your Maker." Cha Jun 2015 #7
Oh, I'd totally be into that. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #8
LOL! Yeah, that Maker.. Cha Jun 2015 #9
whether there is or isn't is not the point for me restorefreedom Jun 2015 #10
Yeah, a lot of religions claim to be about peace and love. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #11
it's for people unable to deal with reality Skittles Jun 2015 #28
You dont have to tell me. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #31
But ... Flags! Aerows Jun 2015 #32
The "teachings" are so contradictory, ambiguous and outdated as to be useless... SidDithers Jun 2015 #16
perhaps so restorefreedom Jun 2015 #17
Actually, the holy books have lots of calling for hate and vengeance and murder snooper2 Jun 2015 #35
LOL! Don't forget the fleets starships. nt Freelancer Jun 2015 #13
And in a 14+ billion year old universe, on a 6 billion-year-old planet, Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #24
I've been told it's because im mad at my father. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #6
I've always found it quite confusing. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #12
Maybe they are just reading- snooper2 Jun 2015 #37
So you think they are just reading that part? raouldukelives Jun 2015 #42
Licensed to thump -- no intelligence test required Freelancer Jun 2015 #14
Because, at their core, religions are about exclusion of the other... SidDithers Jun 2015 #15
and kind and unkind areligous too restorefreedom Jun 2015 #18
We're all messed up, regardless of which way our junk points ... Freelancer Jun 2015 #19
"Being a Christian" DOES mean being kind, etc. Those who are not, are NOT Christian in fact! WinkyDink Jun 2015 #21
No, it doesn't... SidDithers Jun 2015 #23
Well we certainly loved them last week B2G Jun 2015 #26
And there are many murderous Muslims. Your point? A religion's tenets CAN BE DISOBEYED. WinkyDink Jun 2015 #33
Yes, and there are many murderous Christians... SidDithers Jun 2015 #36
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): snooper2 Jun 2015 #38
Protestantism believes faith, not works, suffices. WinkyDink Jun 2015 #20
If there's a god, and it loves everyone, that god has some twisted ways of showing love. Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #22
Yes. The god xtians worship is cruel and sadistic. closeupready Jun 2015 #40
Jesus loves, people usurp . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #27
Mother Emanuel AME ChazII Jun 2015 #29
The Biblical god is all for slavery, rape, murder, and torture. NYC Liberal Jun 2015 #30
Christians believe the NT supercedes the Old. WinkyDink Jun 2015 #34
Like how the NT tells women to shut-up in church? snooper2 Jun 2015 #39
Context B2G Jun 2015 #41
i actually know people who follow this restorefreedom Jun 2015 #43

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
1. In short, they are fakes. They use the veil of religion so as to practice their various
Fri Jun 26, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jun 2015

brands of hatred. I'm not a religious person today, but I recall well from the teachings in my youth that, the devil comes in many disguises. And hence, I equate many of this ilk as disciples from hell.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
3. Well, it's like this... (IMO)
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:41 AM
Jun 2015

You know how, with the first kid, you're completely nuts -- if he/she eats a bug, you're tempted to take them to emergency. And by the time you have a third kid, and you see them eat a bug, and all you think is that you wish you had it on video. Well, extrapolate and imagine if you had had 15 or 20 billion kids over 250,000 years. That's the way God probably is. If he/she is, he's seen it all.

At this point, when Louie Gohmert, or somebody of his ilk, tugs at God's sleeve, complaining that some of their brothers and sisters aren't following all the rules, God probably just pats them on the head, points them toward the yard, and says "that's nice, now go play -- Daddy's busy."

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
4. Reactionaries have a history of taking the name of something good
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 03:58 AM
Jun 2015

and bestowing it on something ugly as sin.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
5. The idea that there's some omnipotent, all-knowing, superpowerful magic being
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 04:03 AM
Jun 2015

in charge of a 20 trillion light-year wide Universe, who happens to get his (his?) transcendental nose out of whack because some hairless apes on a blue-green ball in the suburbs of a run of the mill spiral galaxy happen to love other hairless apes of the same gender as opposed to the opposite one, is just too silly to really merit a whole ton of extended thought.

Cha

(297,530 posts)
7. "It’s past time for talking politics. It’s time to get right with your Maker."
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 05:55 AM
Jun 2015

Rofl.. Notes from Freeperville, USA

"Have girded my loins and sallied forth into the fetid swamp that is freeperland...once again."

Surya Gayatri http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6907259

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
10. whether there is or isn't is not the point for me
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 06:37 AM
Jun 2015

what matters to me is that there are a good many people out there who say they believe but yet act completely out of accordance to the teachings they hold so dear. it baffles me.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
11. Yeah, a lot of religions claim to be about peace and love.
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 07:39 AM
Jun 2015

What that translates to in reality, especially in an almost mathematical correlation to the degree of fundamentalist rigidity of the practitioners, is often something entirely different.

Skittles

(153,182 posts)
28. it's for people unable to deal with reality
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 08:18 PM
Jun 2015

they each make it / tweak it to whatever it takes to make it more appealing to them

I don't care as long as they don't thump / politicize, which they are CONSTANTLY doing

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
16. The "teachings" are so contradictory, ambiguous and outdated as to be useless...
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jun 2015

as a practical guide to behaviour and attitude.

There is no objective standard of the "teachings". The interpretation of the scribblings of all of the Abrahamic religions is subjective, and can be used to justify almost any behaviour or belief.

Who's to say which is the right interpretation? Maybe the Pat Robertsons and Creflo Dollars of the world have got it right, and you've got it wrong.



Sid

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
17. perhaps so
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:52 PM
Jun 2015

i do believe i would rather have to answer for being "too nice " than being too mean.

pat robertsons being right? (shudder)

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
35. Actually, the holy books have lots of calling for hate and vengeance and murder
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:49 PM
Jun 2015

People have to spin their holy books and only talk about the happy parts. A good christian would be out on Sunday smiting people who are working in their yards, since it is what the holy book says.



But alas, they are either lazy or hands over eyes and ears and La la la la la

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
24. And in a 14+ billion year old universe, on a 6 billion-year-old planet,
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 06:58 PM
Jun 2015

where life forms emerged 3 billion years ago, and the current form of hairless apes came to be about 200,000 years ago, there was one magical dead hairless ape who came back to life 2,000 years ago and will return to Earth soon to suck believers up into the sky.

Warren, how could you ever doubt such a thing?!

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
25. I've been told it's because im mad at my father.
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 07:45 PM
Jun 2015

Although the old man had a pretty low threshold for unmitigated bullshit, himself.

Response to restorefreedom (Original post)

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
12. I've always found it quite confusing.
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:50 AM
Jun 2015

As a self identified Christian, whenever I ponder and pray, or ask my internal voice about assistance programs for the least, saving Gods creation, the natural world and tossing out money changers, I always get a thumbs up response.

Whenever Christian politicians pray on those bills. They always seem to get a different response than I. Makes me start to wonder, am I talking to the wrong guy, or are they, or are any of us?

Sigh, silly monkeys.

My understanding is the extreme vengeance that God used to vent out equally upon gays and Red Lobster patrons was fulfilled and made null & void by Jesus. Thus, the name Christian. A follower of the New Testament. A disciple of Christ and of Matthew & Paul, not Leviticus.

I find many Christians today appear to act not only indifferent to the words of Christ, but diametrically opposed. Add to that a warming world they ignore, well, is it any wonder I sometimes ponder if it isn't for their comfort?

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
37. Maybe they are just reading-
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:59 PM
Jun 2015

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30


5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


Sounds like a swell guy!

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
42. So you think they are just reading that part?
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:19 PM
Jun 2015

Who knows. More likely they have never read any of it. Just kind of pick and choose things to suit whatever small argument they may have. But as we both know, that is SOP for cons.

But I hear you. I generally don't defend people who call for violence against others. Especially when they have done nothing wrong. Unlike some people.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
14. Licensed to thump -- no intelligence test required
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:25 PM
Jun 2015

Poster wrote:
how is it these people keep getting away with calling themselves christian when they do the opposite of everything he told them to do??

Horrible-ish-ness, and ignoramus-ity?

Why, H-E-Dubble Hockeysticks, if more of them thar gays had the good sense to collect guns -- to invest in a few deep ranges and preemo supplies of ammo -- heck they'd be AWLRIGHT in my book (as long as they keep out of mah hot tub).

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
15. Because, at their core, religions are about exclusion of the other...
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:34 PM
Jun 2015

They're all little clubs with membership rules that are designed to separate themselves from lesser mortals.

It's a mistake to equate being a Christian with being moral or kind. There are plenty of asshole Christians in the world, just as there are plenty of asshole Jews and asshole Muslims.

There are also plenty of wonderful, caring, Christians, Jews and Muslims.

Sid

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
18. and kind and unkind areligous too
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 08:56 PM
Jun 2015

i guess i dislike the commandeering of moral standards by people of faith. like they are the only ones who know how to act (or think they do)

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
19. We're all messed up, regardless of which way our junk points ...
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 06:32 PM
Jun 2015

Anyone that wields power -- economic, religious, political, familial -- f@@ks up. Hopefully, they see it eventually, and try to make things right.

If there were a slogan meant for our times, it would have to be: "Do what's right. Don't double down."

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
23. No, it doesn't...
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 06:54 PM
Jun 2015

That's the No True Scotsman fallacy.

There are lots and lots and lots and lots of unkind Christians.

Accept it. There are all kinds of assholes in your club.

Sid

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
33. And there are many murderous Muslims. Your point? A religion's tenets CAN BE DISOBEYED.
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jun 2015

Just as posts here can be misunderstood.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
36. Yes, and there are many murderous Christians...
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jun 2015

My point is that being religious does not make a person good, moral or kind. A person's moral compass is unrelated to the strength of their belief.

Being religious simply makes a person religious.

Sid

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
38. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message):
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 01:06 PM
Jun 2015

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.



That sounds just swell LOL

Should that tenet be obeyed or disobeyed?

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012


 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
22. If there's a god, and it loves everyone, that god has some twisted ways of showing love.
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 06:51 PM
Jun 2015

Murder, accidents, diseases, war, famine, natural disasters, child abuse, addiction, ... on and on. Why would anyone conclude there is a benevolent deity? I guess they get god off the hook by saying "free will!" or "he works in mysterious ways!" or "there's a plan!"

Not buying that.

ChazII

(6,205 posts)
29. Mother Emanuel AME
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 08:18 PM
Jun 2015

I would be interested in how they would explain the love of Jesus.


The ministers who were slain weren't too bright for being believers in God.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
39. Like how the NT tells women to shut-up in church?
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 01:09 PM
Jun 2015

Women Should Shut Up in Church: 1st Corinthians 14:34 NASB

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak.


how about-

Return Runaway Slaves to Their Owners: Philemon 1:12 The Message

I’m sending (the slave Onesimus) back to you… I wanted in the worst way to keep him here… But I didn’t want to do anything behind your back… Maybe it’s all for the best that you lost him for a while. You’re getting him back now for good—and no mere slave this time, but a true Christian brother!

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
41. Context
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jun 2015

Paul uses slavery vs. freedom language often in his writings as a metaphor.[9] At this time slavery was common, and can be seen as a theme in the book of Philemon. Slavery was most commonly found in households. This letter, seemingly, provided alleviation of suffering of some slaves due to the fact that Paul placed pastoral focus on the issue.[10]

Although it is a main theme, Paul does not label slavery as negative or positive. Some scholars see it as unthinkable in the times to even question ending slavery. Because slavery was so ingrained into society that the “abolitionist would have been at the same time an insurrectionist, and the political effects of such a movement would have been unthinkable.[11] Paul doesn’t question it in this epistle. Paul may have envisioned slavery as a fixed institution. He was not questioning the “rightness or wrongness” of it. Paul did however view slavery as a human institution, and believed that all human institutions were about to fade away.[12] This may be because Paul had the perspective that Jesus would return soon. Paul viewed his present world as something that was swiftly passing away.[13] This is a part of Pauline Christianity and theology.

When it comes to Onesimus and his circumstance as a slave, Paul felt that Onesimus should return to Philemon but not as a slave, but under a bond of familial love. Paul also was not suggesting that Onesimus be punished, but Roman law allowed the owner of a runaway slave nearly unlimited privileges of punishment, even execution.[14] This is a concern of Paul and a reason he is writing to Philemon, asking that Philemon accept Onesimus back in a bond of friendship, forgiveness, and reconciliation. Paul is trying to break through the social barriers dividing people.[15] We see this in many of Paul’s other epistles, including his letters to the Corinthians, delivering the message of unity with others and unity with Christ - a change of identity. As written in Sacra Pagina Philippians and Philemon, the move from slave to freedman has to do with a shift in “standing under the lordship of Jesus Christ”. So in short, Onesimus’ honor and obedience is not claimed by Philemon, but by Christ.

Verses 13-14 suggest that Paul wants, not simply that Philemon free Onesimus, but that he send Onesimus back to Paul. Marshall, Travis and Paul write, "Paul hoped that it might be possible for [Onesimus] to spend some time with him as a missionary colleague.... If that is not a request for Onesimus to join Paul’s circle, I do not know what more would need to be said".[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Philemon#Themes

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
43. i actually know people who follow this
Mon Jun 29, 2015, 06:33 PM
Jun 2015

not completely literally, women make announcemts etc. in church but they are only allowed to teach classes for other women.

to each their own just don't force it on me....

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