General Discussion
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(115,678 posts)Bagsgroove
(231 posts)If Jesus weeps it's because people like Mike Huckabee keep focusing on things He said nothing about (like gay marriage) and ignoring the things He did talk about, like helping the poor and the sick.
Mr. Huckabee, if there is a God named Jesus, he's probably gonna ask you about that someday.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)demmiblue
(36,875 posts)packman
(16,296 posts)Jesus hung out with 12 guys
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)The Huck-a-billy nightmare hasn't a clue about Jesus...the response, I think, is what Jesus would have said...
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Maria law is not the law of the land either, for exactly the same fundamental reason.
Secular. State.
Go establish your own Christfukuistan somewhere else.
..........
Whew, that feels better.......
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)His message was one of tolerance and forgiveness. These people are not Christians.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)If you don't think so, take a look at the response when anyone practices those virtues. For example, last week when the surviving family members of the Charleston Massacre said over and over again to Dylann Roof that while they were devastated by his actions, they forgave him, the popular media didn't know what to make of that. In fact, it's already kind of hard to remember it was said, because it was glossed over in less than a day, and subsumed by the death penalty verdict for Tsarnaev. That's something our society and culture understands and celebrates.
JPK
(653 posts).....Be free to use your new country's name in all of my internet correspondence when I need reply to angry Christians that hate everything about the United States and the Constitution? I love the name, Christfucuistan.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,829 posts)make a BFD over stuff like same-sex marriage, which Jesus never once mentioned, while failing and refusing to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit prisoners, care for the sick or welcome the stranger. IIRC, he said if you didn't do those things you'd go to hell. Re-read Matthew 25:31-46, Mike, and then explain to me why Jesus isn't weeping over your GOPer intolerance and hate.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Whoops, doesn't exist. My bad.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."
oops.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)i do not consider Paul my messiah. He came decades after the resurrection of Jesus and many times contradicted what Jesus said. You will find most fundamentalists will treat Paul like he is some sort of equal to Jesus.
But to real Christians, he was simply one of the hundreds of people who helped spread the faith after Jesus resurrection. Paul was not prophesied in the Old Testament or even in the New. He was not a disciple nor was he the replacement disciple for Judas. It is doubtful he actually knew any of the original disciples.
So if I am a Christian (and I am) and I am to follow what Jesus said why would I follow what a person who came after him and actually contradicts what Jesus taught?
Scholars believe Paul's books were included because Jesus message was really too anti- establishment against organized religion. Paul help to build the modern Church and in a way was the first fundamentalist.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)We have no writings from Jesus, no first hand accounts. We have the conflicting second hand accounts in the surviving gospels and that is it.
"Scholars" - by which you mean assorted theologians and theologically driven biblical historians have been putting out apologies for the assorted texts that constitute the gospels for 1700 years or so, and there is no end of true accounting for what that gibberish really means. However claiming that there is nothing in the texts that condemns homosexuality is simply false. There are cleverer arguments that attempt to get around that text than "Jesus never said that".
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)But we are all not assholes. In fact I'd like to think of myself as what most Christians are - people who are really nice people who realize that changes in the laws regarding marriage isn't going to do jack squat to their own lives.
Only problem is that most of those people are just normal folks who live their day to day lives and probably don't get involved with political discussions or have a bully pulpit & microphone where they can say 'we aren't like that'. But a few of us out there are trying to make a difference, I'd like to think I'm one of those people even if it's coming here helping clear things up about Christianity.
See just like Islam isn't about those terrorists that are doing bad thing, Christianity isn't about those assholes that make bullshit statements about our faith. In the end we are actually both very peaceful religions that have these fundamentalist sides that take it way too far and try to make life miserable for others. Why? I just don't have a clue.
But here are the facts about the Bible. You are right, who knows who actually wrote those books although scholars have a good idea. But here is the truth - there are only 4 books in the bible that are specifically about Jesus and the things he said and those are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And if you line those 4 books up side by side and read them (which btw I have a book that does just that but my Step-father has it) you'll see there is consistency in those 4 books about the message. Most of the things Jesus said tended to have been said in at least 2 of those Gospels. So the message that Jesus put out there was pretty well documented by others, has shown consistency not just through those 4 books, but even some of the Gnostic Gospels (the ones that weren't picked for the bible and there are dozens). And having read all of these you'll find that Jesus was not some asshole who told people they were all sinners who were going to rot in hell and then passed judgement on all of them. Jesus talked about messages of love, he talked about not judging others, he talked about helping out the poor and he was accepting of people who were not of the Jewish faith because he saw the good in all people. And oh, Jesus pretty much said 'bullshit' to the laws of Leviticus. The perfect example was when the crowd was going to stone a woman for committing adultery. In Leviticus that was the typical punishment. When the crowds saw Jesus they asked him to join and help stone the woman and that is where Jesus said 'Those of you without sin let them cast the first stone' (John 8 ). Then he dropped the stone to the ground and walked away, the rest of the crowd did the same and let the woman go.
Problem is the people who assembled put Paul, the guy who came after Jesus. Paul was really just one of some of the many random people who happened to have heard about Jesus, liked what Jesus said and then decided to change up the entire message and spread an almost completely different version of religion that was kinda what Jesus was NOT doing.
So here's the scoop, we 'scholars' aren't being apologists. We are simply telling you the history of how this faith assembled and then how some people over the centuries just assumed Paul = Jesus and felt they could use Paul's words as the same level of faith as Jesus.
The people who do that - those are the Christian Fundamentalists. Every single right-wing religious nut job almost has a direct lineage to how Paul wanted to create a religion which was to control the masses, something that wasn't really Jesus' thing.
I look at it this way - I am a Christian, I really do not do organized religion (methodist by birth) for the fact that organized religion isn't meeting my needs anymore. I figured my faith should be guided by what Jesus said. If one lives by his words then it's a message of love and acceptance. And here's the thing - I see people who follow His message who are avowed Atheists and you know what, I think that is awesome. Because to me those Atheists who show love and respect for their fellow human beings show more Christian values and more Grace than any of these fundamentalists.
yikes1
(22 posts)It is a made up book, who gives a rat ass what was written and who wrote it!!
yardwork
(61,700 posts)People often point out that Paul never knew Jesus. His writings don't attempt to quote Jesus, while other gospels do. In those gospels, Jesus is quoted as stating that divorce is wrong and that rich men won't get into heaven, for instance, but he is silent on homosexuality.
Of course this entire conversation is based on the assumption that Jesus actually existed. I realize that lots of people don't believe that. Those people would have no reason whatsoever to care what the gospels say one way or the other.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)asshole. He didn't follow the teachings of Jesus, he followed the teachings of establishing a new religion like the upper class Roman that he was.
Women shouldn't speak in church.
Gay people are horrible.
Be subservient to those who hold authority over you.
He was an opportunist.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
And Paul did say he was the Messiah.
I sometimes think Paul was the first anti-christ.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)handmade34
(22,757 posts)because of his overwhelming love and compassion for people in particular oppressed and 'down and out' people (you can read all about it right there in the Bible) so Yes they were tears of Joy!!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Well done, Jesus!
wolfie001
(2,264 posts)...... when we "shuffle off our mortal coil" and spend eternity looking at this clueless fuckwit, or Michelle "Bat Eyes" Bachmann......shudder the thought.....
douggg
(239 posts)and playing along about it with Ted Nugent?
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)which are also good friends of the huckster
SunSeeker
(51,662 posts)DiverDave
(4,886 posts)paleotn
(17,946 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,999 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Initech
(100,099 posts)3catwoman3
(24,032 posts)Excellent rejoinder.
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,401 posts)I suspect it was deleted pretty fast!
iandhr
(6,852 posts)But it still extremely relevant
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)To me, "Jesus Wept" is something you say to curse a particular turn of events.
trusty elf
(7,399 posts)Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)to his brothers and sisters Dim, Half and Fuck!