looks like the woman punched 1st, then football player punched back harder

[Liberal_in_LA]

What does DU think? The whole tussle between them is shown. He seems to grab her and try to hold her back, then she punches.

Video shows Florida State QB De'Andre Johnson hitting woman, officials say


http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-deandre-johnson-punch-video-20150706-story.html

[inwiththenew]

1. Both of them had the opportunity to deescalate the situation

She seemed hellbent on preventing him from getting to the bar. She was clearly blocking him. He seemed to force the issue by trying to push past her. Then all hell breaks loose.

Did she deserve to get punched? No.

I'm a surprised she got punched? No.

[LittleBlue]

2. He grabbed her first

So he started it. She responds with an unnecessary punch and he wallops her.

He wasn't defending himself like that guy in the subway. Shouldn't hit a drunk woman like that.

They both look like alcoholics who need therapy.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. she makes a fist at him. he grabs her hand and holds it against her. she punches w other hand

[brush]

76. She also kneed him before he hit back. Look again.

Women should not be able to just hit men.

He of course wasn't smart enough to walk away from the belligerent woman and ended up hitting her back.

He has to face charges for that and most likely is facing the end of his athletic career.

There need to be charges against her too though.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

86. You can make all the fists you want. The first person to initiate assult is the guilty one

He makes contact first. That's the line in the sand here.

[CajunBlazer]

90. Nope, that's not the line in the sand

Forget for a moment that this a man and a woman in this altercation (because their sexes have no baring under the law in this situation). If someone raises a fist and you think that he or she is going to hit you with it, you don't have to wait until your struck to react. That's not reasonable.

[LadyHawkAZ]

124. No. When he grabbed her arm, her "fist" hand was still holding

her drink.

Watch closely and you can see her put it down and bring her fist up AFTER he grabs her.

[yawnmaster]

128. I'm seeing her fist in the air (no drink) at 0:10, and shortly thereafter he grabs her right arm...

the one making the fist.

[yawnmaster]

130. better view in another video. I think he was holding her left arm before she raised her right. eom

[LadyHawkAZ]

131. Yes, he grabbed her left arm first,

then she raised her right fist.

[Liberal_in_LA]

134. ok.

[kcr]

8. Yes, that's what it looks like to me, too.

He clearly grabs her arm first and she tries to pull free, then punches him. He then punches her back, much harder.

[brush]

127. She also kneed him

Watch closely while he holding her fist to keep her from hitting him she knees him then throws a punch.

It's crazy. She had to be drunk because if you watch it from the beginning you can see that two women left the bar after getting drinks and she moves into the vacated space.

The guy pushes through the crowd, probably brushing her, and tries to move into the other spot at the bar. She seems to want both spaces and says something to him and then the altercation ensues.

This is going to be interesting when it goes to court since she also assaulted him.

He of course should have been charged but I don't know why she wasn't. Even if you're a woman you can't go around kneeing men in the mid-section/groin area and punching them without repercussions but physical and legal.

She got the physical repercussion immediately but the legal is still probably coming since this video went viral.

[Warpy]

18. Unnecessary? Some oaf grabs me, I make sure he lets go.

The strength difference says no matter who had a fist out first, this is never going to be fair.

She is capable of hurting him if she gets a clear shot. He's capable of killing her.

It is never right to hit a woman, guys, unless she is on fire.

ETA: Yeah, they both need to lay off the sauce, especially him.

[stevenleser]

46. The guy is clearly an entitled and misogynistic asshole

in crowded bars, you don't shove people to get to the bar. And more importantly you don't grab women you don't know. You don't even grab the women you DO know in anger.

Agreed that they both need to stop drinking. Angry drunk people is why I don't go to bars or nightspots much anymore if ever.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. Looks like he was bullying and muscling himself up to the bar and shoving two women.

It then looks like he grabs the woman's arm and restrains her. She attempts to hit (or maybe lands one).

[Avalux]

4. He had his hands all over her before she swung.

It looked to me like she was telling him to get his hands off her or she would punch him, so he grabbed her, she swung at him (not very well), and then he clobbered her. Real classy guy.

[Hutzpa]

11. Thought she held up her right hand as if she is ready to punch the guy

was the reason he held her back.

[Avalux]

17. I may be wrong, but looked like he was trying to get to the bar and was shoving her.

It's hard to see admittedly, and it was crowded.

[Liberal_in_LA]

19. me too. then at about the 11 second mark he seems to choking her

[kcr]

21. He was shoving her

Have you ever been in a crowded bar with people shoving and had your arm up like that, or seen people with their arm up? It isn't a ready to punch gesture. It's a defense posture.

[Hutzpa]

23. There seem to be some kind of exchange before the punch.

Maybe words were exchanged that got the dude upset, hard to say without being there because all this is from Charlie Chaplin style
motion picture.

[kcr]

25. Yes. He walks up to her and starts shoving her.

You can't hear anything, but that's what is shown on the tape.

[cwydro]

5. Another classy football player.

She's not much better.

[bravenak]

7. No. I saw a woman at a bar.

A guy comes up behind her and she turns and says something. Some verbal interaction ensues. He starts grabbing her, she makes a fist like shes going to punch him if he don't leave her alone. He keeps grabbing at her. She's trying to get his hands away from her and is batting at him to get him off. He punches the shit out of her. From that video, it looks like he started it and finished it. I hope he was arrested.

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. I can't see his right hand. only see the left hand grab her clenched fist

[bravenak]

14. He should have never been touching her like that at all.

He should have said 'Excuse me. Can I get past you for a second?' Or gone down the bar a bit to order his drink. He was shoving against her rudely.

[cwydro]

12. That's what I saw too.

An entitled jerk.

[bravenak]

15. Definately.

[petronius]

16. That seems like a pretty accurate description. Also, a fairly muted reaction from

the bartenders: maybe it was loud at first, but did they really miss all of that?

[bravenak]

20. They were probably shocked. I know I would be.

[Liberal_in_LA]

22. the guy next to her fades away quickly

[DawgHouse]

73. That's what it looks like to me, too.

[phleshdef]

9. He is obviously shoving his way up into her personal space. She had the right to stand up to him.

[Travis_0004]

13. I would just charge them both with assault, and let the lawyers figgure it out.

[stevenleser]

24. Better description of what happened here...

http://www.fsunews.com/story/sports/2015/07/02/fsu-quarterback-charged-battery/29616221/

.
.
.
Tallahassee police say the woman was ordering a drink at Yianni's Nightclub around 11:30 p.m. on June 24 when she says she felt Johnson pushing her from behind.

The police report says the woman then raised her arm to prevent Johnson from continuing to push her, but he grabbed her and kept pushing.

The woman told police she then raised her knee to Johnson's midsection to shove him away from her and attempted to strike him with her fist to get him to release his grasp.

The report then says Johnson punched her on the left side of her face before they were moved away from each other.

There was video taken at the scene and the victim's accusations are consistent with the video, according to authorities.
.
.
.
(more at link)

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. ah ok. thanks

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

30. Well if you have had so many trials

why did you misspell misogynist?

[underthematrix]

33. So the # of trials he's done is somehow connected to

his ability to spell "misogynist" correctly on a message board?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

68. It seems to me a lawyer

would know how to spell that word, given his claim of all those DV trials he was in.

[underthematrix]

31. great analysis. Could explain the bystander reaction

These is an AA woman in his path but she moves away without drama. I'm wondering wny the white woman did not do the same thing. It seems to me she provoked the interaction. Of course the bottom line is he has ruined his college and sports career before it even started. He should read THE WARMTH OF OTHER SUNS

[Whiskeytide]

39. Wait. wTF?

I read the hidden post. A great analysis? Really? I can plainly see the knee as her defensive move. Not sure why Dr Xavier didn't see it. She does NOT interact with him first - something happened as he came up behind her and she turned and appears to confront him. He then physically restrains her - obviously against her will, and she uses her knee and a punch to try and disengage. He hits the shit out of her within 12 seconds of the start of the altercation.

The rules are complicated.

1. Don't hit a woman.
2. But if she's drunk, you're not allowed to hit her.
3. Now, if she mouths off at you, THEN you're not allowed to hit her.
4. If, on the other hand, she makes a threatening gesture, you can not hit her then.
5. If she threatens to hit you, and even balls up her fist like she's going to hit you, it is then appropriate to not hit her.
6. If she actually tries to hit you - I mean actually takes a swing at you, then of course you can not hit her at that point.
7. If she embarrasses you by actually landing a punch, then the reasonable response of any man would be to immediately not hit her.
8. Don't hit women. Don't hit ANYONE who is smaller, weaker or drunker than you, but especially a woman.
9. Don't grab people in a bar. Don't grab a woman even if you think she's disrespecting you. Don't grab her even if you just think she has misunderstood your actions or intentions. Don't grab her even if you think she's about to hit you. Walk away.
10. If you can't go out in public and have a drink without becoming an asshole, stay home.

WTF DU? Really? Defending this guy? Now I've seen everything! Next someone will try to promote polygamy!

[Hortensis]

53. Very good.

[Whiskeytide]

57. I can't understand it.

He hit her. On the video. And clearly with an intent to injure her. It was pretty vicious. That's not justifiable no matter what took place between them.

[elehhhhna]

54. she be an op

[Snow Leopard]

63. so much for equality

[Whiskeytide]

67. That's a false equivalency...

... it's NOT about equality. Its about a college athlete punching a woman. Which is to say it's about a vastly stronger and bigger person physically injuring a less strong person. It doesn't matter if she provoked it. It doesn't matter if she called him a name. It doesn't matter if she tried to hit him first. You just don't viciously hit - with an intent to hurt - someone who really has no ability to defend themselves against your assault. That is the very core of being a bully.

Treating women equally doesn't mean we throw out basic rules of human interaction.

[mythology]

106. Those are wonderful rules in theory

But I've known my fair share of women and guys who are smaller than I am who are strong enough to do some damage between the sports I've played.

I think a much better rule, is that in general, people just shouldn't hit each other. But if somebody hits me, or makes a sincere effort to hit me, I find it rather stupid to automatically say I have to just walk away because I'm bigger than the average guy. Will I walk away if the situation is safe enough to do so? Sure I've been hit before (doing martial arts has that effect) and I'll be hit again and I'm a big enough guy with a high enough tolerance for pain, but I reserve the right to judge any situation on its own merits.

In this situation, do I think he needed to hit her? No, but she didn't need to hit him either based on what we see. But what we don't know is what either said to the other. He's claimed that she used racial slurs. I have no evidence either way on that.

[Whiskeytide]

118. I see your point. And I'm all...

... for judging each case on its merits. But the video here is pretty telling even without audio. He did something that causes her to confront him. Maybe it was innocent bumping, but something. Then he grabbed her. I'm not sure her raised hand was a fist or not, but even if it was, he initiated the contact by grabbing her arms to restrain her. THAT'S when he should have walked away instead or at least turned his back on her and ignored her. Her "assault" was clearly more defensive than offensive.

Maybe she did use racial slurs. Wouldn't surprise me these days. But that just proves she has no class. It's not a license to deck her.

[treestar]

119. Why not walk away ?

[asturias31]

42. Because a woman who does not

defer, submit, and yield ground to a guy who's shoving her, is provoking him. If only she had known her place!

Got it.

[joshcryer]

37. He's clearly making repeated touches on her.

This is obvious and unambiguous, he's pushing up against her and she's defending herself from unwanted touching. We don't know how crowded it was at the time and it may have been accidental, but he clearly escalates. If it was an accidental movement because of other people shoving he should've apologized and walked away. Instead it appears that he wanted to put her in her place or something stupid and she became more defensive, as would anyone in such a situation.

[Hortensis]

52. Rutting was my best guess. Long ago now, but been a girl at a bar or two myself.

[csziggy]

87. That description matches what I see in the longer video

The video being shown the most starts AFTER Johnson is shoving at the woman.

This video begins before - if you watch at the lower right the blonde woman is waiting for her turn at the bar. Then Johnson tries to shove in, reaching his arm in, latching onto the edge of the bar and shoving the woman to the right.

He definitely assaulted her first by all the shoving he was doing. All she did was raise her fist (probably while telling him to back the F*** OFF) and he grabbed her arm and shoved her some more. Then she began defending herself and that is when he punched her.

[Skittles]

28. the guy is disgusting

he could have just walked away which is exactly what most men would have done

[Raster]

62. He only walks away AFTER he decks her. Then he can't be found in the video.

[Rex]

81. Agree. He was being a total asshole pushing and grabbing her.

Looks like to me she is trying to defend herself from Mr. Hands.

[underthematrix]

29. The bystanders who are looking right at what is going on

seem to have little if any reaction, which suggest what was said is critical to understanding what happened.

[LuvLoogie]

32. Drunk or not; punk-ass move by Johnson.

Not only does he push into her back, but he grabs under the edge of the bar to gain leverage to shove her. Then he grabs her after she tells him to back off.

[underthematrix]

34. wait a minute. there's audio?

[LuvLoogie]

35. Loudly and clearly--De'Andre Johnson, "I am a punk."

[ornotna]

36. He had no business putting his hands on her

Period. Looks like she was asking him to quit bumping into her and he escalated the situation.

[Nye Bevan]

38. He grabbed her, she tried to push him away, he punched her.

I would charge him with assault and her with nothing.

[prayin4rain]

40. She's standing there with her back to him and he grabs her, turns her around

and continues to manhandle her, at which point, she gets a free hand and aggressively tries to make him let go of her by swiping at his face. She misses and gets punched.

[Thor_MN]

97. Can't really see what's happening below the frame.

But she wasn't "standing there with her back to him". She slides in from the right faster than he was moving to the bar. Doesn't justify anything, but she definitely wasn't just standing there.

[prayin4rain]

100. She bellies up to the bar first, at which point, she's

standing there with her back to him. He continues to bump into her. When his right hand leaves the screen, you can tell that he's grabbed her left arm by the way her shoulders ragdoll around. He continues holding her left arm and when she wiggles it from him, she uses it to try more aggressively to make him stop manhandling her.

You're right that at first I thought he spun her around and when I watch again, I can't tell if she turns around to tell him to stop pushing her or if he spins her around.

I've spent a lot of time in bars in my younger days and I've never seen a man act one tenth of this aggressive towards a woman.

[Thor_MN]

117. I'm not saying what he did was right, but she stepped in front of him.

She was standing behind the guy with glasses at the bar. That guy wasn't moving. She saw an opening and quickly cut diagonally to her left, in front of the jackwad football player.

All I'm saying is that she wasn't just innocently standing there.

People are seeing what they want to see, and painting their choice as pure and innocent. Frankly, I see two drunks assholes who feel entitled.

[Quixote1818]

41. Fuck him, he had no right to grab her and he was being extremely agressive before she swung

Her hit did not have that much power behind it either. She was just trying to get him away.


Hope he goes to jail.

[TeeYiYi]

43. He deserves what he got...

He punched her hard. He's lucky he didn't break her nose or knock out her teeth. She was obviously bleeding after he hit her.

According to the Tallahassee Police Department incident report, the woman, an FSU student, suffered bruising near her left eye, swelling of the left cheek and upper lip, and a small cut near the bridge of her nose.

State's attorney Willie Meggs, who decided to charge Johnson after seeing video of the incident, said the woman still had a black eye when he met with her last week. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13211988/florida-state-seminoles-qb-deandre-johnson-dismissed-program-video-shows-striking-woman-bar

TYY

[GreatGazoo]

79. yes, he throws a hard right into her left cheek/nose/eye socket area

He could've killed her. If anyone thinks that is an exaggeration:

https://www.google.com/search?q=killed+by+punch&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I'm thinking more than alcohol is at work here, maybe steroids.

[TeeYiYi]

83. He apologized...

...to everyone except the girl he busted in the face. He's a bully with anger management issues. I hope he gets the help that he so obviously, desperately needs.

"De'Andre is extremely embarrassed by this situation and would like to express his heartfelt apologies to everyone, including those who were directly affected, coach Fisher and his teammates, the entire Florida State University community, as well as his family and friends." http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/florida-state-university-qb-suspended/

This case reminds me of the guy that cold-cocked his girlfriend in the elevator. There is no excuse for that level of violence against women and I'm glad FSU took a hard-line stance in response to his behavior.

TYY

[DetlefK]

44. She argues with him. He grabs her arm. She punches his shoulder. He punches her face.

On top of that, his job is to fight other guys, which means he is supposed to know how to handle violence.

[lostnfound]

47. I think football players should be given special training from 9th grade onward

Similar to diversity training that most of us get in the workplace.

Football culture helps build up their bodies until they become lethal weapons. These young players don't necessarily have the best brains, judgment, or upbringing.

Well-raised men know the rule, "never hit a woman", and I respect those men (and the parents who raised them). The list of ten rules that whiskey-tide posted is a great list.

Not all men are well-raised, nor all women. If this was a scuffle between two men, with one "taking a swing" and the other punching in the face, the reaction to the story would have been far different. If the punch in the face was a "pulled punch" so that the other guy didn't end up with a broken nose, it might be seen even as exercising some restraint.

Things aren't completely equal. Although I've heard that there are some men subjected to physical abuse from women (which carries embarrassment), there's vastly more abuse of women occurring at the hands of men. Different biology as well as learned attitudes.

And this chronic society problem is apparently magnified by football. Boys playing football should be exposed to the idea that they have an extra responsibility to stay in control of their emotions, because they are undergoing special training and physical regimes that will build their bodies up beyond normal range and will teach them the habit of not holding back; a potentially lethal or extremely hurtful combination. They should make such a program as a matter of pride, just as Marines are instilled with discipline about their weapon or Renaissance knights were taught chivalry toward women as part of their basic training.

Hoping that families alone will be sufficient to teach self-restraint in these young men is dooming society to a future filled with similar events.

[DetlefK]

49. It wouldn't be much different if these were two guys fighting.

Guy A argues with guy B. Guy B grabs guy A. Guy A punches guy B in the shoulder. Guy B punches guy A in the face.

And again: Guy B punches people for a living. He's having the better odds of winning this fight from the beginning. Whatever guy A can dish out, guy B can top it. Guy B decides who wins. He decides how this fight ends: win, draw, lose. And that means he is ultimately responsible for whatever outcome.

[Orrex]

48. Am I the only one who can't see the lower three-quarters of their interaction?

He looks pretty clearly like the aggressor, but I'd like to hear from someone who can see more than the top 25% of the incident.

[DetlefK]

50. What do you mean?

Is the video broken for you? The camera is angled to show the bar itself. The incident happens in the lower third of the video. They are visible only from shoulder upwards.

[Orrex]

51. That's exactly what I mean.

People are making concrete statements about what's happening, as if they can see a lot more than is visible.

I'm just asking what they see and how they're seeing it.

[tazkcmo]

55. Freshman?

Why was he even allowed in the bar? Oh wait, he's a "great" football player. In that case, it's ALL her fault.















sarcasm.

[joeybee12]

94. Good point...it's 21 everywhere nowadays to drink...

And I don't see anything about him being red-shirted...no way is he 21.

[JTFrog]

104. He's 19. n/t

[woolldog]

107. It is an 18 and over club/bar.

18+ to get in. 21+ to drink.

[BKH70041]

56. It must have been really loud in that bar.

Just looking at the other patrons, most hardly notice that anything happened, they just go about continuing to talk to each other.

[on point]

58. Nope.He was physically pressing on her, she asked him to stop, he grabbed her fist, she struck back

then he struck her hard.

I would say the lady was defending her space and looked like she was asking him to get back as he was encroaching on her with out manners.

That is my take after careful watching.

[Raster]

61. That is what I see. Watched this several times from YouTube, full screen, high def.

He's a punk! He is at fault.

[joeybee12]

59. Since this is Florida State...he must assume this is the way...

to get a Heisman. He's a jerk...will he get punished? Of course not, FSU will canonize him.

[tammywammy]

75. He's already been kicked off the team. n/t

[Raster]

60. He's a punk! He is behind her pushing against her and trying to push her out of the way.

His hands are on her. She tries to shove back, he decks her. And then, he gets the F*** out of there, because he knows he just did something unconscionable.

I for one am tired of athletes - college or otherwise - given free passes in the behavioral department.

[Orrex]

65. On the plus side, maybe he'll get an NFL career

Then he'll retire after having destroyed his body by the age of 35, and he'll be bankrupt by 37.

[Raster]

74. Unfortunately that does tend to be the NFL life trend.

[MineralMan]

64. Looks to me like he physically assaulted her first,

then she tried to make him stop doing that. Then, he punched her in the face.

Now, he's off the team. I think he should be under arrest, frankly.

[former9thward]

98. He was arrested.

The reason the video came out was the prosecutor's office released it. This did not just happen.

[MineralMan]

101. Ah, OK.

Good.

[Marr]

66. It started with him manhandling her.

That's the initial assault, and it's undeniably his.

It looked like it really starts because he was obliviously shoving her from behind as he worked toward the bar. She turns with a fist raised, he grabs her as the two exchange words, she throws a left that could not have possibly hurt anything more than his ego, and he clocks her with his right.

[Baclava]

69. Florida State dismisses freshman quarterback De'Andre Johnson

Well, De’Andre Johnson doesn’t have to go home, but he can’t stay with the Seminoles. The freshman quarterback was kicked off the squad, as the school announced in a press release:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/07/06/video-shows-florida-states-deandre-johnson-punching-woman/

-------------

that was a quick career

[CajunBlazer]

70. Is it okay for a woman to hit a man?

I studied the video several times and this is I see the situation evolving. It looks like he was shoving his way into a recently vacated space at the bar. Not good form at all, but not something to fight over, at least not yet. She apparently didn't appreciate that (understandable) and says something, which he didn't appreciate. He evidently says something back, which she didn't appreciate. (Remember, we can't hear what is said between the two, so it is difficult to totally understand the situation.)

She then responds verbally and shoves him. The verbal confrontation continues and she raises her right fist in a threatening manner. He grabs that arm and says something. She says something to him (again unheard) and he might have respond. She strikes out with her left fist, but the punch fails to connect. He smacks her in what looks like the the cheek with his closed right fist. (If he is an athlete, he probably didn't hit her as hard as he could have, but he smacked her pretty good with a closed fist.)

Now I have no problem with him being kicked off of the team. College athletes are cautioned time and time again - don't put yourself in situations that will get you in trouble. He probably had a few drinks and should have not bullied his way to the bar. He certainly should not have argued with a obviously drunk women.

Now I was raised that you don't hit women, ever, regardless of the situation, but the law does not distinguish between the sexes when it comes to assault.

My problem is that he was charged with assault, and she wasn't. Why is that? Pushing through a crowd is not assault, and neither is mouthing off (unless so called "fighting words" are uttered. (Again the lack of sound deprives us a full understanding of the situation.) However, when she pushed him, that could be considered assault. Normally when you grab someone, that is considered assault, but his defense would be that she was threatening him with her fist so he was justified in reacting to that threat.

However, when she struck out at him with her left fist, that was assault, but not battery (she missed). When he struck her that could be considered both assault and battery had she not thrown the first punch. His legal defense would be that it is not assault and battery if you are responding to an attack, even if the attack was unsuccessful. (In other words, you don't have to wait until someone hits you before you can respond.)

In my view of the video, I don't see how he can be convicted of assault, but she possibly could be.

My question for you folks is, if it were the same identical situation, but the person sitting at the bar was a man instead of a woman, would we view the situation any differently? Should we view the situation differently? If the woman sitting at the bar was the college athlete, should she have been kicked off of her team?

[AuntPatsy]

78. Food for thought, but yes he should be charged for assault, after reading your thoughts

and watching it several times myself, she could be as well except I believe she viewed the shoving from behind as an assault to herself initially...

Both obviously intoxicated, never a good outcome..

[CajunBlazer]

88. I agree both were intoxicated...

but I don't believe both can be charged with assault. If one person assaults another, then under the law the second person has a right to respond in kind.

I'm not sure the the contact between him and her as he pushed into the place at the bar can be considered assault. For instance you and I were in a crowd and I bumped into you while selfishly paying attention only to my own needs, even if kind of ran you over, I wouldn't be very polite, but I wouldn't guilty of assault.

One of the problem with the video is the lack of sound. If in fact she called him racial slurs (as has since been alleged), that could be interpreted as "fighting words", and might mitigate how he responded.

However, the only point I was trying to make is that we are all taught as kids that a man should not hit a woman, and I think that is coloring how we see this incident. The law, when properly applied should not make that distinction.

Frankly don't think much of either one them as human beings if how they acted on the video is indicative of their normal behavior. If that is not their normal behavior, perhaps they should both be charged with public drunkenness.

[woolldog]

105. This is the correct legal analysis.

[csziggy]

71. The longer version of the video shows that Johnson was crowding into her

At this link watch the RAW video: http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/Video-Shows-FSU-Quarterback-Punching-Woman-in-Face-311779131.html

Visible at the lower right, the blonde woman had been waiting to get to the bar for at least two minutes. When the other two women get their pitcher and turn away, she started to move up to the bar but Johnson (in the white cap) reached past the women, hooked his hand under the bar and began to force his way past her.

I suspect Johnson's elbow was jabbing the blonde woman in the hip or back since she turned to her right and said something to him. He continued to shove her against the man to her right trying to force his way past her. That is when she turned the other way and held up her fist. She did NOT swing at him, just confronted him. He grabbed her right hand, she tried to pull away, he wouldn't let go and that is when she tried to hit him with her left hand and missed. That is when he punched her in the face.

The full video is much clearer on what happened and that Johnson was the instigator.

Here is a slightly shorter version but with more than is in the OP video:

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. thanks for more details

[grossproffit]

85. Unbelievable that anyone is sticking up for him after watching THIS!

He was touching her and pushing on her. How dare she speak up, say no and try to push him off of her. The nerve of that woman!

[former9thward]

99. According to his lawyer she was screaming racial insults at him.

That is not an excuse for a punch but it is provocation.

[grossproffit]

110. Nothing in the police report about that. One witness heard her yell "No" twice. Link to report

http://www.talgov.com/uploads/public/documents/assets/news/tpd-dj-probable-cause.pdf[link:http://www.talgov.com/uploads/public/documents/assets/news/tpd-dj-probable-cause.pdf|

[former9thward]

115. In a noisy bar it is difficult to hear things being said.

Unless for some reason you are focused on the conversation. The police report did not report anything the defendant said.

[rocktivity]

72. She raised her fist, he grabbed it, she hit him with her other fist, he hit her.

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:11 AM - Edit history (1)

She overreacted to being accidentally bumped in a crowded bar, initiated the aggression, AND threw the first punch -- her fault all the way.


rocktivity

[brush]

82. There were two women at the bar that moved . . .

there was enough space for two people but she seemed to want all the space.

It was crowded, he probably bumped her as her tried to fill the space next to her. I don't know why she objected to him taking the space next to her. She must have been intoxicated and took offense at him trying to squeeze into the space.

They exchanged words and she threatened him with a fist. He grabbed her fist so she wouldn't hit him, then, if you look closely, you can see she kneed him in the mid-section/maybe groin area, then punched him with her other hand.

It wasn't that hard of a punch but she threw it. He fired back much harder.

They should both be charged.

Men can't hit women but women can't hit men either. Every man is not gentlemanly enough to just walk away.

That's what happen here.

[grossproffit]

126. Yeah, how dare she turn around and say "no" to his repeatedly pushing on and touching her.

[brush]

129. Guess you've never tried to get to the bar in a crowded club.

He probably brushed against her but he was obviously trying to get through the crowd to the other vacated space at the bar. There was nothing sexual about it as you're implying.

The woman must have been intoxicated. I mean who goes off like that if you're sober in a tightly packed crowd where there is bound to be some physical contact — threatening with a raised fist then punching and kneeing someone.

Being a woman does not give you license to knee and punch men and then act like you're completely innocent.

He should have walked away but he didn't so he got charged.

I have a feeling charges are going to come her way too since the video went viral and shows she was also physically aggressive.

[Starry Messenger]

77. Why is this even a question?

He could have put out her eye. What could she have done to him in 10 seconds that required the use of possibly critical or deadly force against her?

[CajunBlazer]

89. Let's assume that...

...until she raised her fist, the only thing that the two were guilty of was being human beings you and I wouldn't want visiting in our living room, especially if they were drunk. (We don't know that is so - supposedly she called him racial slurs - but we don't know that.) Then when she threatened with that fist, he had every right to grab her arm. Then when she threw punch she was guilty of assault, and by law he had every right to respond in kind.

We are all taught (I think correctly) that men should not hit women and it would surely would have been best for him to just walk away at that point. However, the law does view the two sexes differently. We are all equal under the law. When a punch is thrown, regardless of whether the person throwing it is a man or a woman, regardless of whether that punch connects or not, the attacked person has a right under the law defend him/herself.

[Starry Messenger]

91. So he was just standing his ground?

Against a weaker opponent? It was necessary to slam the full force of his fist into her face because she was trying to prevent him from pushing at her?

And people wonder why women don't use physical force when grabbed by men. Even when we do, we are just asking for blowback, evidently.

[CajunBlazer]

92. I am just pointing out the legal rights in such a situation.

You must have missed the punch she threw at him, to the attempted kick to the groin before that. And you must have missed the threatening fist that he grabbed. The law clearly states that if someone attacks you, you are entitled to defend yourself in kind. It doesn't distinguish between men and woman. It does not say you can defend yourself only if the attacker is your size and strength or larger and stronger than you.

However, I personally would not hit a woman because I was raised to be a gentleman. In addition, as a practical matter, even if I were fully justified I wouldn't do it because I know that I would never win the public opinion aftermath, as this case bares out.

I think that many assume that the woman in the video is faultless in this encounter because, as women it is natural for them to take her side. So unfortunately they take into consideration only what proves that case and disregard anything to the contrary. On the other hand, any unbiased person looking at the video multiple times as I did, can see that the responsibility for the incident is clearly shared. Is he at fault, yes definitely. Is she at fault, yes definitely. These are two drunken individuals who, given their predispositions, should always remain sober.

Let's be fair. If we are going to find fault, then let's assign fault everywhere it belongs. Frankly I think that both of them are heathens and I wouldn't want either of these two individuals among those with whom I associate.

[Starry Messenger]

93. I'll remember next time someone bumps me that I can hit them with an axe.

I seriously doubt that the law is going to find them equally culpable. But this is a discussion forum, not a court, and I saw something much different than you got out of that video, clearly.

[CajunBlazer]

95. Nope, sorry....

....you can't do that unless you are assaulted and then you an only respond in kind. (In other words you can't draw a gun shoot someone if someone pushed you in the chest. Assault is defined that is contact or attempted with intent to do bodily harm. I am sure that if you have been in a crowded bar you bumped people and been bumped into numerous times. I'll bet that in all of those incidents, none of them have resulted in a physical altercation, unless you were frequenting all the wrong places. This girl on other hand apparently gets angry very easily when she is drunk; of that there can be little doubt.

[Starry Messenger]

96. He did assault her first.

He grabbed her and pushed at her. He was the one who escalated the situation. She attempted to ward him off and he escalated.

That's why he was cut from his team, and that is why he got arrested. He used disproportionate force against a weaker victim, and you are right, he is going to be punished for responding with too much force.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6946943

[mythology]

103. That's a fairly generous use of the word assault

if you are referring to him getting to the bar. If that is your standard for assault, I've been assaulted many times in bars, but it never occurred to me to hit somebody over it. Granted I'm a solid sized guy (ie, not the size of the woman in the video), but I don't think this is nearly as cut and dry as people are trying to make it out to be.

Neither of them should have hit each other, but given that they did, I find it utterly insipid to automatically assume it was the guy's fault as many people do. Do any witnesses back up his account that she was using racial slurs during the incident? That would very much mitigate things from my perspective.

[Starry Messenger]

109. Deliberate force without consent is the legal use of the word assault.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault

Longer video here shows his unwanted contact with the woman is before any contact she made.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6949496

The only people I've heard make claims about racial slurs are the QB and his lawyer.

[woolldog]

111. bumping into someone at a crowded bar is not assault. nt

[Starry Messenger]

113. Watch the video, the long version.

He wasn't "bumping". I provided the link in the previous post.

[woolldog]

114. I've watched the clip numerous times

They were jockeying for position at the bar to order a drink and bumped into each other. In fact she appears to be purposely trying to block his path to the bar. In any case, that's not assault.

See CajunBlazer's posts on this topic which are spot on.

[grossproffit]

112. Nothing about racial slurs in the incident report. Link inside

http://www.ta[link:http://www.talgov.com/uploads/public/documents/assets/news/tpd-dj-probable-cause.pdf|lgov.com/uploads/public/documents/assets/news/tpd-dj-probable-cause.pdf

[CajunBlazer]

120. I have looked at the video yet again

I looked at the video at least 20 times with no intent to find either of them right or wrong. I just wanted to see what happened. I have even run it while stopping it every second and I simply don't see what you see. I just looked at it again three times to make real sure that I hadn't missed something.

Here is what I see. I see him being overly aggressive to get to a spot at the bar and bumping into her without intent to harm her. She turns her head over her right shoulder to tell him something. When he continued to try to squeeze into the spot at the bar next to her she turned to her left, maybe pushed him (I can't really tell due to the camera angle) and almost immediately raised her fist into a threatening position while she is yelling at him. He grabbed that arm and pulled it down in front of her. Trying to make him let go she tried kneeing him and then threw a punch that missed him him before he punched her. Now those are just the facts as I recorded them watching the video multiple times.

Now I'm not saying he should not have been kicked off of the team. He should have been if for nothing else than not backing out the situation immediately, but he was probably drunk as well. College athletes are told repeatedly not to get themselves in situations like that and evidently this guy has a listening problem. And he should have never, ever, hit her regardless of how bad she acted, even if she had managed to hit him hard, if no other reason than he he was never going to win the resulting public relations storm.

However, had she been have been almost any other woman, or just about any man for that matter, there would never have been a problem. People get bumped and jostled in crowded bars all of the time, and they don't get fighting mad unless they have an anger management problems.

Some people are easily angered when they are drunk, and it appears from the video that she is one of those. Or maybe she is like that when she is sober as well.

Again I have no problems with people jumping all over him for what did. That is well in good. I do have a problem with those who complete ignore the evidence right there before their eyes and argue the woman had no responsibility what so ever for what happened. Had a good sized man been at that bar in the same exact situation instead of that woman, most people watching the video would have accused him of starting the fight. (Think that through and you will see what I mean.)

So, let's just not pretend she is an innocent angel who had no fault in the matter. That simply won't fly.

[Starry Messenger]

121. I have also watched it several times.

The first person doing the touching is him. He's aggressively pushing and shoving, which is why she keeps twisting around, to see wtf is shoving and hammering into her back. The other girl leaving the bar gives him an angry look as he also jammed himself into her too, while she was trying to get by. The victim raised her arm to ward him off when she turns around because he won't quit and wait his turn at the bar.

Your words: "He grabbed that arm and pulled it down in front of her."

Right as he grabs her **that is assault** ALSO. She at no time touched him before he started shoving and grabbing her. You can believe and see all you want, but only one person got charged with a crime.

He is 19 years of age and was in an area where he wasn't supposed to be. Now you see why minors aren't allowed to be at bars. One person had a right to be where she was, and it wasn't the QB. She is pursuing charges, and I'm sure will win.

[CajunBlazer]

122. Sorry you are mistaken.

If a person raise his/her fist at you in a threatening manner you are under absolutely no obligation to allow them the opportunity to throw that punch. (By the way, when is the last time you have seen a woman ball her hand into fist in a threatening manner - none of the women I know would ever do such a thing and that should tell you something about her right there.) It is not assault to try to prevent that person from striking. I will guarantee you if a man raised his fist in a threatening manner to another man, that would be perceived as a real treat and he would be very fortunate if the other person only grabbed his arm. Think of it another way, if a person draws a gun on you, surely you are allowed to do something about that if you think you have a chance before he/she fires the bullet.

Again, you ignore most of my post and jump on one aspect in which you think you see a weakness in a desperate attempt to try to demonstrate that this woman has absolutely no culpability in this manner. I can imagine no other reason except that you totally identify with this person despite all the evidence that she is not a very nice person, at least when she is drinking.

Again, I will repeat the obvious. In a normal bar crowded bar situation, this usually would not have escalated into a violent situation. Had I been at the bar instead of this woman I would have probably told the guy, "Hey dude, no need to shove, there's plenty of place at the bar for both of us" and I can almost guarantee that all would have been well. Then again, I don't have a hair trigger temper even when I have had a few.

[Starry Messenger]

123. Nope. You are.

The case will bear this out. I hope you aren't his lawyer. You can take the last word. You seem to need it.

[CajunBlazer]

125. Links to Legal Definitions of Assault

1st Link: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault

Another: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault

There are others - just Google "legal definition of assault".

[LuvLoogie]

132. Link to definition of a punk.

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/punk

[bunnies]

80. I cocktailed in bars for many years.

People get shoved and pushed against constantly. Ive never seen anyone raise a fist so quickly though. I feel like Im missing something.

[valerief]

108. No, she held her fist up and said something. Then he decked her. Klassy guy. nt

[BillZBubb]

116. He should be in jail. He instigated the whole thing.

He punched her, then ran off like a coward.

[on point]

133. Bs. He is pushing up against her, she turns to tell him to stop he grabs her first

He is a jerk and totally at failt