I flew in a B-17 warbird yesterday, my great uncle died in one in the Pacific Theater Sept 24, 1942

[Omaha Steve]

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:26 AM - Edit history (3)

For more info on these flights and more: http://www.collingsfoundation.org/


I haven't grabbed my phone pix yet. I've been so busy. Good thing I'm retired. My camera photos are in chronological order here: http://tinyurl.com/o7z7otk

I had no breakfast yesterday in case I might get airsick. This would be one exciting carnival ride.

There was a break in the weather after the last couple of days had been so hot and humid. It was 70 when I left the house.

While driving to the private plane side of Epply Airfield I looked to my left. It was just in time to see a Red-tailed Hawk (think Tuskegee Airmen) take flight from the top of the security fence. A good omen I thought to myself.

As I pulled into the parking lot I saw dozens of happy faces getting out of their cars and walking to the assembly area. After getting inside there was a room full of excited people, a souvenir table, and registration table. Through the glass I saw TWO vintage warbirds out on the flight line in pre-check and fuel mode. The excitement builds.






The check in table worked with color coded tags by plane and flight number. I was on the second flight of Nine O Nine. Two older Veteran's tried to buy a ticket, only to find out all the morning flights were sold out. They got tickets for the 5 PM fight. During the day there are tours through the planes.

The first flight taxied out. The smell of high octane and burning oil were in the air. Our group was assembled and given our pre-flight info. This included mentioning IF you stick your head in the air stream in the open radio gunner position (# 6 below) take off your glasses and hats. Hold on to your phone or cameras tightly.


http://www.b17bomber.de/eng/details/crew.php

Talk between the passengers drifted to what the crews of these planes had to endure while under fire and damaged.

The P-51 was now being towed out of the hanger. I mentioned former NU football All American Wayne Melan's P-51 was destroyed in his fatal crash in 1987.

All of a sudden there was some obvious radio traffic of concern between the crews on their handheld. The B-24 had developed a problem in flight an was returning ASAP. Below is the work that started immediately on the down engine. Nine O Nine is landing in the background.



We were going to board with the propellers running, so we got some more safety instructions. This photo shows the other passengers in my flight. Our instructor that doesn't make the flight is facing us from the left



Below is a passenger on my flight grabbing the overhead bar to load and unload from the plane.



I was the last to board and had the seat closest to the tail. After a little trouble with the seat belt (a vintage model, unlike a car) our flight engineer gave the pilot the thumbs up to taxi out.

We came to a stop. The engine started reving up for flight and we started that slow bumpy ride down the runway. Suddenly the sounds and "feel" indicated we were weightless. A couple bumps and we knew we were airbourne. Our flight engineer immediately gave us permission to unbuckle and wonder in the plane. A father and son in front of the bombay.



I took phone photos inside the plane. I stuck my head up in the air stream to take some camera photos. Remember that warning about cameras in the airstream? Yep. The strap blew off my neck and I almost lost the camera to the force of the wind. Marta would extremely upset if I had let go of her camera.

Our mock bomb run on the rail yard somewhere over Germany in the photo below.



As you can see in the photo the bomb racks are a tight fit. I decided with my bad neck and shoulders not to get injured wiggling my way through. So I didn't get to the navigators area at the front of the plane. My great uncle's (navigator 1st Lt. Leo M. Eminger) downed plane was located during the war: http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2420.html

This was the point my mind drifted to family history. My cousin Leo that grew up next door to me was named after him. Meet my uncle (spitting image of my maternal grandfather) the navigator, 1st Lt. Leo M. Eminger (KIA).



About a 1/2 hour after takeoff we were headed in. Buckle back in and a flew bounces later we were on the ground. Everybody had huge smiles. The father in the photo asked his son if he had felt air sick at all. The son answered "no". I thanked him for not getting airsick. He smiled. I said back to him "well I pooped my pants". The rear end of the plane broke out in loud laughter. His dad told me "We're not going to thank you for that".

As we got out of the plane the passengers from the B-24 flight that got cut short lined up to ride in Nine O Nine too. I'm sure the cancelled flight was next.

I smelled of gas and oil till I got home and showered. A badge of courage maybe?

I went in to buy souvenirs. A hat, several T shirts for family members, and a 50 cal round notched into a bottle opener, and some clearance items were what I selected. You can buy online here: http://www.collingsfoundation.org/shop/



These flights and souvenirs help pay for maintenance to keep these historical treasures flying. It was worth every cent. And it got me out of Marta's hair for a couple hours.

I crossed one item off my bucket list. IF I'm healthy enough next year, Marta and I are in the early stages on planning to go to Normandy and London.

Omaha Steve ...Over and out!

[progressoid]

1. You had a good day for it too!

Not the high 90's we had last week.

[Jughead]

2. Great Heros

Nice story. My uncle Norman Goodwin was blown out of the air as a tailgunner in a B17 when it was shot down. He was picked up by the Nazi's and he lost his leg. He was a PW for a while but was releaded in a prisoner swap.
https://100thbg.com/index.php?option=com_bombgrp&view=personnel&id=1945&Itemid=122

[Lochloosa]

3. Very Cool Steve.

[jwirr]

4. Thank you for the pictures. Especially the one of your uncle. What always strikes me first when

I see a picture taken of a young vet who has died in service is how very young they were. Are.

[Omaha Steve]

5. A Ride on the B-17 'Nine O Nine' video

Somebody just sent me this.

[neverforget]

6. Great story Steve!

My uncle was a tailgunner on a B-17 that was shot down over Germany May 12, 1944. He was the only survivor. The German family that found him in their field, took him to their house where they protected him from the townspeople until the Luftwaffe arrived. My uncle died never knowing that Germans saved his life.

[HereSince1628]

7. Pretty cool.

The B-17 is the storied plane of my childhood ... my father was a B-17 propeller mechanic with the 8th and 9th airforces

Most of his stories were about how little of the (name the part) of the plane could be intact and still fly.

From the stories it seems the plane could fly if it had an engine still running and was roughly ~75% intact

[Lurks Often]

19. The B-17 was famous for it's ability to take damage and still bring it's crew home

Here is a link with pictures: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

The newer and on paper, the better B-24 never had that reputation. The design specifications that made the B-24 faster, with a longer range and the ability to carry a heavier bomb load made them far less able to take heavy damage and survive.

[Triana]

8. Thanks OS!

I really enjoyed reading this. What an awesome day, eh?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

9. My dad co-piloted a B-17 E "Flying Fortress" out of England

He was flying bombing missions and was shot down on his 8th mission over the rubber factory in the town of Huls, Germany. He bailed out just before the plane blew up and he parachuted through the roof of a barn, fracturing his hips. German soldiers arrived and shot up his legs as he dangled in his parachute. He barely made it through several surgeries in the German POW hospital and it took him three years before he could walk again. They sent him to Stalag Luft III, scene of The Great Escape. My dad's name is mentioned several times in John Steinbeck's book of war memoires, Once There Was A War. Steinbeck was a war correspondent, assigned to cover my dad's plane The Mary Ruth.

My dad is on the right, standing, wearing a pilot's hat and mustache.





I think the shape of the B-17 was beautiful.

[DirkGently]

10. <----The Flying Fortress! ---->

Very cool airplane -- always thought they were one of the meanest looking WWII bombers. Excellent pics and story.

Respects to your great uncle.

[oneshooter]

11. Been in several of them

Despite the seemingly large size of them they are small inside. And NOISY.

Now your flight was at fairly low altitude, below 6000ft. Lets go to 25000ft, on oxygen, wearing electrically heated flight suits (its -20 outside) carrying a full load of fuel and explosives.

And people are trying to kill you.

[pinboy3niner]

12. Great story and pics!

But next time, be better prepared.

[Omaha Steve]

21. Now he tells me

[fadedrose]

13. I so enjoyed your pictures

and smiled all the way thru them....I'm so happy you had a good time, and a memorable one. You'll have to get some of your favorite pictures showing highlights of the flight...put them in one of those big frames that have dividers...

thanks for thinking of us - and somehow, I know you did...

[hunter]

14. Wow.

Keeping these planes running is a wonderful thing to do.

I'm not someone who likes to fly, but I instantly recognize the sound of these old planes and will run outside when I hear them, just to watch them fly over.

[Kurska]

15. Really a shame they never bothered to put 20mm or 30mm autocannons on them.

The airforce was stupid for never putting 20mm hispanos on the things. The Japanese were ahead of us on that, their heavy bombers (which I don't think ever got past the paper stage) was designed for 20mms.

We wouldn't have needed as many p-51's if the had just bothered to actually give the bombers more range on their turrets. The brass stuck with the "simplified supply lines" mantra for way too long.

We were still putting 12.7's on planes up till the Korean war. The M2 browning was a fine anti-fighter weapon (probably even better than putting 20mms, more ammo meant more continuous fire, key in a dog fighter), but they were woefully inadequate for defensive armament.

Awesome pictures btw. Sorry for my ranting.

[oneshooter]

16. The reason they were armed with Browning .50 MG's was simple.

Weight. The 20/30mm cannon weighed twice what the Browning's did, add to that the additional weight of the ammo, the weight of the larger turrets and reinforcing the aircraft to handle the additional recoil and you cut into the bomb load quite a bit. After all the BOMB LOAD is what the bomber was all about.

[Kurska]

17. The things were absolutely covered with 12.7's thats my problem.

The 12.7s alone were highly ineffective in taking on enemy fighters, precisely because they were so out-ranged. You might as well not have defensive armament if those weapons can't reach the enemy.

Bf-109s and FW-190s could pick off B-24s and B-17s before the bombers even had a chance to return fire a lot of the time.

Honestly, we would have better off cutting the number of weapons in half and replacing the dual 12.7's turrets with single 20mm. Even if it meant less bomb load, it would have meant losing fewer bombers, especially before the widespread use of long-range escort fighters.

Thats just my opinion at least. I think the over-reliance on 12.7s was a costly mistake across all levels of the American air-force. There is a reason every other airforce on the planet switched to 20mms as soon as possible for their fighters.

[oneshooter]

20. The German 109F carried 50 rds of ammo for the 20mm

And 400rds for the 8mm MG. The 20mm although a larger round was out ranged by the M2 in use on the B-17. It was a low velocity weapon.

The FW 190 carried two 8mm MG's with 500 rds and two 20mm cannon with 50rds ea. Again the cannon were low velocity.

The 8mm MG's have a flatter trajectory than the 20mm.

[Omaha Steve]

22. The YB-40 gunship was both more and less than planners expected

I finally found time to look this up.


This aircraft (41-24341) came off the production line as the second B-17F Flying Fortress, but was modified by Vega to become the XB-40. The subsequent YB-40 went into combat in a slightly different configuration, with the cockpit fairing cut short of the mid-dorsal position. Vega; Robert F. Dorr collection

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/my-brilliant-mistake-the-yb-40/

BY ROBERT F. DORR - JULY 2, 2011

We are reminded ceaselessly of how crucial breakthroughs like bronze weapons, longbows, the stirrup, gunpowder, rifles, the airplane, the submarine, the machine gun, and many other technologies changed the face of warfare and often became deciding factors on the battlefield. Not mentioned as often are the failures, the brilliant ideas that were not so brilliant, the technological dead ends, the badly conceived or badly employed weapons that either had no effect or actually contributed to defeat. “Brilliant Mistakes” is a continuing series covering failed concepts, weaponry, tactics, and strategies, all of which probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

Today, historians have a wealth of knowledge about the YB-40, the World War II aircraft that appears to qualify as the U.S. Air Force’s first gunship.

This modified B-17F Flying Fortress bristled with gun barrels and was sent forth to guard American bomber formations high over Europe. What is missing from its history is the name of its creator. Who thought up the YB-40?

“The record is unclear,” said Rob Young, a historian at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. “It appears the YB-40 meets the definition of a donkey – that is, a horse designed by a committee.”

.
This is a diagram of the YB-40, showing a very heavily armed aircraft that rightly deserves to be called a gunship. U.S. Army: Robert F. Dorr Collection

FULL story at link.

[oneshooter]

23. If it had been armed with 20mm/30mm cannon the performance would have been even worse.

[Kurska]

24. Wow that is really cool

Awesome informative story.

[LibertyLover]

18. In 1995 my mom and I did a D-Day tour of England and Normandy

For me, having just finished a Master's in Military History, it was very exciting. For mom, well, mom would travel just about anywhere and do just about anything. One of her cousins had been a parachutist and went in prior to the invasion landing. He was captured and spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp. No one in our family died in the ETO (or PTO for that matter), but it was still very neat to see the beaches and the remains of Mulberry and such. If you've never been to the Cabinet War Rooms in London do plan to go. I've been twice now, once with mom and once with my husband. Both times were fascinating. And if you ever get a chance, go to Malta and see the War Rooms there too.

[davidpdx]

25. Sounds like a very interesting experience

My grandfather flew in a B-29 in WWII. I have never gotten to see the inside of one, but have seen the outside of it. It is wonderful tht they continue to maintain these planes for historical purposes.

[The Second Stone]

26. I flew on the same plane (Nine O Nine) a couple months ago

flying in a B-17 had long been on my bucket list. Expensive, but it was amazing.

[marym625]

27. I don't know how I missed this post

Great post, OS! Thank you for sharing every bit of it!