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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:43 PM Sep 2015

Professor Won’t Wear Device to Accommodate Deaf Student Because It Violates Her Faith

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/09/17/professor-wont-wear-device-to-accommodate-deaf-student-because-it-violates-her-faith/

You would think professors would go out of their way to help out students in their classes. Every now and then, though, you hear about some who pull a Kim Davis. They’ll find a religious excuse to avoid doing something ridiculously simple even when it would make another person’s life so much better.

William Sears, a student with a hearing disability at Memorial University (Newfoundland), has a simple request. He needs his teachers to wear a sound-transmitting device so he can hear them more clearly.

But one professor, Dr. Ranee Panjabi, refuses to do it because it violates her religious beliefs:...

I’m not sure what Panjabi’s religion is. But I can’t recall any holy book saying adherents should always screw over people with disabilities.


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Professor Won’t Wear Device to Accommodate Deaf Student Because It Violates Her Faith (Original Post) KamaAina Sep 2015 OP
Disturbing. louis-t Sep 2015 #1
Between organized religion in America and guns in America, I am amazed there is any of us left randys1 Sep 2015 #27
Newfoundland is in America? Who knew. yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #63
I did. Lots of people do. Mexico is also. Thor_MN Sep 2015 #74
You know that the story is foreign and not the United States? yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #78
Oh come on now. Next you're going to try telling us that Europe isn't a state in the US. PersonNumber503602 Sep 2015 #87
It must be, because there are Georgians over there, and everyone knows GA is in the US. Yo_Mama Sep 2015 #98
No one said it was part of the UNITED STATES. Thor_MN Sep 2015 #93
Yes, me too, but freedom of religion is glorious. You know, we have NO idea Hortensis Sep 2015 #33
It is a glorious club awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #58
Agree they're frightening - always, but their successes are in direct Hortensis Sep 2015 #82
She's not following an organised religion Recursion Sep 2015 #79
Then she should find another job nt nichomachus Sep 2015 #2
Why? Didnt the student have other options like tape recording class for later review? cstanleytech Sep 2015 #11
The student shouldn't have to nichomachus Sep 2015 #14
Surely there are other options than forcing the teacher to wear an FM transmitter though? cstanleytech Sep 2015 #23
Yeah, she can get a new job nichomachus Sep 2015 #32
Yes I am sure you sway many with that kind of attitude. nt cstanleytech Sep 2015 #49
If you can't fulfill the requirements of a job, get a new job. nichomachus Sep 2015 #60
I'm willing to guess 'wear a transmitter' was nowhere in her job description. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #84
+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #89
It is a tiny device that has to be worn close to the body because snagglepuss Sep 2015 #42
Thank you, that makes sense then. nt cstanleytech Sep 2015 #48
Don't forget that flight attendant who refused to serve booze on her flights. Glassunion Sep 2015 #3
That one is a little bit easier to understand. KamaAina Sep 2015 #6
She's not allowed to drink it. Warpy Sep 2015 #7
Well then... To her point, I do need to be a bit tipsy before I get on a plane... Glassunion Sep 2015 #13
There's a world of difference between tipsy and blotto Warpy Sep 2015 #16
For me it qualifies as a phobia. Glassunion Sep 2015 #25
I suppose it involves the complete loss of control Warpy Sep 2015 #46
The good news for her is I'm not muslim Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #31
That's rather my point Warpy Sep 2015 #47
A flight attendant won't server you ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2015 #53
Here is what the EEOC's website says about this . . . markpkessinger Sep 2015 #21
Not necessarily... joeybee12 Sep 2015 #40
You may well be right about that . . . markpkessinger Sep 2015 #57
I think the accommodation was revoked because co-workers complained. NutmegYankee Sep 2015 #64
It's easy to find out that they use 5 types of aircraft all short flights. 3 aircraft types use just Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #88
WHere is the Koran does it say not to touch a bottle containing alcohol? snagglepuss Sep 2015 #45
That is probably correct, but . . . markpkessinger Sep 2015 #56
Point taken. Religious accomodation snagglepuss Sep 2015 #68
You'd have to put that question to the EEOC! markpkessinger Sep 2015 #69
Your question, of course, points precisely to the problem inherent in the Hobby Lobby ruling n/t markpkessinger Sep 2015 #70
What about the Christian pharmacist that refuses christx30 Sep 2015 #37
Scotch, we know quite a few male Muslims and Sikhs who imbibe daily, heavily and with pleasure. appalachiablue Sep 2015 #43
Doesn't say a thing about SERVING alcohol. That's a fundy invention. MADem Sep 2015 #67
what about a clerk or cashier touching a package of pork? Mosby Sep 2015 #92
They aren't "touching the pork" though--that's another stupidity. MADem Sep 2015 #94
I read somewhere recently that the one food Mosby Sep 2015 #95
Bacon is delicious. Not good for us, so we should eat it just occasionally...but it IS goooooood!!! MADem Sep 2015 #97
Oh no you didnt randys1 Sep 2015 #29
Neither will most pilots. Quackers Sep 2015 #62
Mythbusters #101 - not all teachers are Dems or liberal or secular. Rex Sep 2015 #4
I high school I had a trig teacher and an electronic teacher that would always LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #12
+1 appalachiablue Sep 2015 #44
And I will add their political views also .... Person 2713 Sep 2015 #30
That is messed up underpants Sep 2015 #5
What is she? Jehovahs Witness? Ilsa Sep 2015 #8
Hindu KamaAina Sep 2015 #15
*snort* madinmaryland Sep 2015 #26
Apparently she is not ALL that interested in human rights after all. nt tblue37 Sep 2015 #28
"Panjabi's reason..based on...her personal spirituality and commitments." snagglepuss Sep 2015 #50
Interesting. Ms. Toad Sep 2015 #75
Yeah, those dang Canadians and their "so-called religious freedom laws" Ms. Toad Sep 2015 #19
Sorry, my brain dropped the foreign reference. Ilsa Sep 2015 #20
Under U.S. law . . . markpkessinger Sep 2015 #22
Right there in your post kcr Sep 2015 #24
I didn't say it wasn't required to. Ms. Toad Sep 2015 #39
Clearly god made her student hearing disabled.... brooklynite Sep 2015 #9
Does she use a telephone, listen to radio or watch television? csziggy Sep 2015 #10
I don't get it olddots Sep 2015 #17
Not her. Image is a stock photo from Shutterstock. SomeGuyInEagan Sep 2015 #55
That happened with my daughter's first-grade teacher frazzled Sep 2015 #18
:sad: elleng Sep 2015 #52
hard to believe someone like that would even want to be a teacher Skittles Sep 2015 #77
It was God's will that the student not be able to hear BlueStreak Sep 2015 #34
Hindu's believe in many gods GummyBearz Sep 2015 #51
Some kind of "cat" god JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2015 #54
Whichever god was on duty during that class period. BlueStreak Sep 2015 #65
It "interfered with her personal karma" starroute Sep 2015 #35
Does she carrying a cell phone or use a computer or any kind of electronic device? sarge43 Sep 2015 #38
Personal karma's gonna get you... KamaAina Sep 2015 #73
what bullsh*t. 6chars Sep 2015 #36
What is ludicrous is that it is her own brand of spirituality snagglepuss Sep 2015 #41
There's a slight Constitutional problem with that . . . markpkessinger Sep 2015 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author snagglepuss Sep 2015 #71
This thread is about Canada, and in terms of your US theory, ask the Rastas and the Church of Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #90
Retired, Texas public school teacher here. narnian60 Sep 2015 #59
lol. thanks for the laugh. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #72
This is why religious beliefs deserve to be mocked. Deadshot Sep 2015 #61
Which religion Aerows Sep 2015 #76
pretty much all of them Skittles Sep 2015 #81
This claim appears to be CYA bullshit from Panjabi Scootaloo Sep 2015 #80
She's just using the religious excuse because she's a total smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #91
Well, you know, the words are 'reasonable accommodation'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #83
Does this university have an engineering department? KamaAina Sep 2015 #85
Interesting. One of the colleges I taught at had a similar prob with a Muslim prof years ago. Xithras Sep 2015 #86
The problem began when "faith" and "conscience" were added to the "Must Be Accommodated" list. WinkyDink Sep 2015 #96
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
78. You know that the story is foreign and not the United States?
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 12:52 AM
Sep 2015

Newfoundland has never been part of our country.....ever!

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
98. It must be, because there are Georgians over there, and everyone knows GA is in the US.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 10:37 PM
Sep 2015

Deeply enjoying this subthread.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
93. No one said it was part of the UNITED STATES.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 04:09 PM
Sep 2015

Newfoundland is, and has been part of America since it was named Newfoundland....

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
33. Yes, me too, but freedom of religion is glorious. You know, we have NO idea
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:45 PM
Sep 2015

what her religious prohibition is. So how can we speak to that, or be so quick to condemn her religious rights? BTW, I was unable to find her on googling, didn't keep trying.

Seemingly her religion does not keep her from performing the routine duties everyone in her position should be able to perform. Very, very unlike an airline hostess who won't serve alcohol; if it doesn't burden the airline, I bet it can burden her coworkers.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
58. It is a glorious club
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:48 PM
Sep 2015

that some love to beat people in the head with and not do there job. We give far too much creedence to fairy tales in this country

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
82. Agree they're frightening - always, but their successes are in direct
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 06:29 AM
Sep 2015

proportion to our negligence. We can stop them cold any time we get serious about it. Assuming that's before a coup, of course. I never forget all the people in Iran who thought it couldn't happen there.

cstanleytech

(26,298 posts)
11. Why? Didnt the student have other options like tape recording class for later review?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:00 PM
Sep 2015

I mean surely that could be done unless tape recorders are banned as well.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
14. The student shouldn't have to
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:03 PM
Sep 2015

How do you ask questions of a tape recording?

The teacher nees to do her damn job. Fuck her bizarre religious beliefs.

cstanleytech

(26,298 posts)
23. Surely there are other options than forcing the teacher to wear an FM transmitter though?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:14 PM
Sep 2015

For example what about setting up 2 or 3 parabolic microphones in the class? That should work just as well shouldnt it?

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
60. If you can't fulfill the requirements of a job, get a new job.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:53 PM
Sep 2015

This "religious beliefs" crap is getting out of hand. Most of it is just made-up stuff.

If you are Amish, don't apply for a job as a bus driver. See, that wasn't hard.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
42. It is a tiny device that has to be worn close to the body because
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:56 PM
Sep 2015

what it does is cancel out background noise. It is the reduction of background noise that is essential. Microphones placed away from the body pick up background noise.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
3. Don't forget that flight attendant who refused to serve booze on her flights.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:47 PM
Sep 2015

Doesn't she realize without booze, I will not get on a plane?

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
6. That one is a little bit easier to understand.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:49 PM
Sep 2015

The flight attendant is Muslim. Muslims aren't supposed to drink alcohol. (Actually, the Qu'ran warns against drunkenness, so a liberal interpretation might allow drinking in moderation. ) But there are plenty of Muslims who work as waitstaff who serve drinks to their customers. And there are lots of Muslims who run neighborhood markets that sell liquor.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
7. She's not allowed to drink it.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:52 PM
Sep 2015

She's not allowed to push that proscription off on people who don't share her religion.

And yes, it's a proscription against drunkenness, not alcohol itself. After all, it's only recently the water everywhere has been safer to drink, if you're lucky enough to be in an area with a potable water delivery system. People relied on alcohol in wine and ale to kill the bugs.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
13. Well then... To her point, I do need to be a bit tipsy before I get on a plane...
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:01 PM
Sep 2015

It terrifies me.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
16. There's a world of difference between tipsy and blotto
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:14 PM
Sep 2015

and the Quran is against the latter.

Funny, flying doesn't bother me and I was in a crash landing when I was seven. If anything happens, it will be quick and there won't be enough left for your nearest and dearest to have to pay for an elaborate funeral.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
25. For me it qualifies as a phobia.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:29 PM
Sep 2015

It's completely irrational. I consider myself a logical fella, and I'm well aware that I'm exponentially more likely to be harmed riding my motorcycle to the airport, than I am on the flight, but for some reason I can't shake it. Exposure does not help much. I fly rather frequently. So... 4 lagers and I'm good to go.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
46. I suppose it involves the complete loss of control
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:04 PM
Sep 2015

plus never actually buying into the aerodynamics that hold the plane up. It sucks if you have to do a lot of flying for work.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
31. The good news for her is I'm not muslim
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:41 PM
Sep 2015

So I can drink all I want. If she doesn't want to do her job, get a new job.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
47. That's rather my point
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:05 PM
Sep 2015

She shouldn't be trying to control the behavior of non Muslims.

Like most extremely pious people, she's abandoned all personal boundaries.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,350 posts)
53. A flight attendant won't server you ...
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:26 PM
Sep 2015

... until you are already on the plane.

If only there were bars on the concourse ...

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
21. Here is what the EEOC's website says about this . . .
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:32 PM
Sep 2015

From the EEOC's Religious Discrimination web page:

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.


On any given flight, there are typically at least two flight attendants. The EEOC likely concluded that scheduling the Muslim flight attendant on flights with a second, non-Muslim flight attendant who could serve those who desired alcoholic beverages would not constitute "more than a minimal burden" on the airline.
 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
40. Not necessarily...
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:53 PM
Sep 2015

Sounds to me this is a small airline with short connections...sometimes there's only one attendant, which means this Muslim lady gets to pick and choose her schedule...and the airline also has to put a second attendant on with her...I don't call that reasonable. Also, I don't recall this woman asking to be transferred to a different position in the company..smacks of Kim Davis-type oppotunistic and lazy.

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
57. You may well be right about that . . .
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:42 PM
Sep 2015

. . . I was under the impression -- I now realize I was wrong -- that the EEOC had already ruled on the matter. In fact, the flight attendant only filed her EEOC complaint a few days ago. So we'll have to see how the EEOC rules on the matter. And one of the determinations they will have to make is whether or not a reasonable accommodation can be made for this flight attendant that is not more than minimally burdensome for the airline.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
64. I think the accommodation was revoked because co-workers complained.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 09:42 PM
Sep 2015

And they have a fair point - if their workload increases because of someone's refusing to do a job, that is no longer a minimal burden. From the articles I read, it appears the other attendant had to supply the drinks entirely (rolling cart and pouring into cups), which is one of the largest chores on a flight.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
88. It's easy to find out that they use 5 types of aircraft all short flights. 3 aircraft types use just
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 03:33 PM
Sep 2015

one flight attendant, the other two have two classes of service, one attendant for each class. So to accommodate an attendant who won't serve alcohol would require that she be assigned only to the 2 craft that use 2 attendants, then the other attendant has to serve alcohol to the entire plane, which on such a short flight is a major portion of the job as well as being the worst and most labor intensive part of the job.
She can give the safety announcement. Nice work if you can get it.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
45. WHere is the Koran does it say not to touch a bottle containing alcohol?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:04 PM
Sep 2015

It doesn't. This is the same bullshit with with Somali cab drivers who refused to pick up passengers at an airport who were carrying duty free alcohol.

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
56. That is probably correct, but . . .
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:39 PM
Sep 2015

. . . The government isn't in the business of determining whether or not a person's claim to a particular religious belief is valid under that person's claimed religion. Nor is a person asserting a particular religious belief requiring accommodation under any legal burden of proving that the a claimed religious belief is spelled out anywhere at all. If that were required, it would put the government (the courts specifically) in a position of having to rule on matters of religious belief -- something that they are barred from doing under the First Amendment.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
68. Point taken. Religious accomodation
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:06 PM
Sep 2015

is therefore more a slippery slope than I thought it was. DOes this mean if a male teacher doesn;t want to teach girls with bare arms, he wont have to teach them?

christx30

(6,241 posts)
37. What about the Christian pharmacist that refuses
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:39 PM
Sep 2015

to fill prescriptions for birth control or Plan B? "I can't do it. But Mike will. He's at lunch right now. Should be back in an hour." How far down the rabbit hole you want to go in other peoples' religious beliefs determining how we live our lives?

appalachiablue

(41,146 posts)
43. Scotch, we know quite a few male Muslims and Sikhs who imbibe daily, heavily and with pleasure.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:58 PM
Sep 2015

Not to be judgmental, but there are exceptions everywhere.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
67. Doesn't say a thing about SERVING alcohol. That's a fundy invention.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:05 PM
Sep 2015

Alcohol is an ARABIC word--Persians invented beer, fachrissake.

That flight attendant (who doesn't understand the full history or flavor of her new religion) was appropriately suspended. She worked for four years doing the job, at an airline that mostly flew one-flight attendant aircraft, where no 'reasonable accommodation' would be possible without adding an unnecessary attendant (and losing a customer seat) to her a/c, then she decided she couldn't do it anymore.

If she suddenly decides she can't do the job, she needs to move on.

I have no sympathy for her--no one is telling her she has to do shots with the customers. Just hand them their purchase and swipe their card.

It's like that idiot clerk in KY--no one is telling her she has to attend the gay weddings or even conduct the ceremony--just sign the paper, hand it over to the happy couple, and file a record of the transaction. She's not "approving" or "disapproving"--she's just recording.

Mosby

(16,319 posts)
92. what about a clerk or cashier touching a package of pork?
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 04:06 PM
Sep 2015

Is that covered in the Koran or hadiths?

I wonder if these prohibitions about touching alcohol or pork come from hadiths. The one about dogs does and according to Dr. Abou El Fadl the hadith is false.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
94. They aren't "touching the pork" though--that's another stupidity.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 04:20 PM
Sep 2015

They are touching a piece of cardboard, containing shrink wrapped plastic, in which is contained cured bacon. They aren't even "serving" it--they're simply recording a transaction between the store and the customer.

You can be damn sure if Daddy needed a pig valve to keep his heart beating, they'd find a way to get over their objections to these foolish 'prohibitions.'

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/health-and-science/169197-heart-valve-transplant-from-a-pig.html?Science=


I know many of Muslims (Jews, too) who, well...fucking LOVE bacon. Turkey or soy bacon will not do--they like the real stuff.

Years ago, in the awful heat of Mesopotamia, Persia, Arabia, North Africa, and environs, the swine prohibition made sense...but nowadays, we have refrigeration. It's just silly.


And the guidance is kinda this--if that's all there is to eat, well, eat it, but not too much, and don't LIKE IT too much, either.....

http://quran.com/2/173

Mosby

(16,319 posts)
95. I read somewhere recently that the one food
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Sep 2015

That can make a vegetarian "fall off the wagon" is bacon.

I found a link:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/02/02/133304206/why-bacon-is-a-gateway-to-meat-for-vegetarians

I have to admit I love bacon, but I try not to eat pork for ethical reasons.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
97. Bacon is delicious. Not good for us, so we should eat it just occasionally...but it IS goooooood!!!
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 07:36 PM
Sep 2015

randys1

(16,286 posts)
29. Oh no you didnt
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:34 PM
Sep 2015


I remember when they banned smoking.

I am like "are you fucking kidding me, if I cant chain smoke while flying, the plane is CERTAIN to crash"
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
4. Mythbusters #101 - not all teachers are Dems or liberal or secular.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:47 PM
Sep 2015

Some of the most backwards -religion stuck way up their asses- people I've met, are teachers in public schools. Some will push their religious views onto their students without an ounce of shame.

LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
12. I high school I had a trig teacher and an electronic teacher that would always
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:00 PM
Sep 2015

write on the black board, covering up the writing and then ask me a question with there backs turned so I could not see them talk. For ever I thought something was wrong with me until I found out I had a pretty bad hearing loss. (Kept me out of the draft though). The would ask e a question, I could not hear them or see them talk. Then they would yell "MR. JOHNSON ARE YOU ASLEEP OR JUST STUPID". I always loved math and electronics despite those two, but I flunked both of the classes for "Intentionally not paying attention".
This was in 1965, so it has been going on for a long time. I never thought about why most of all my other teachers had me sit up front after the first or second week. But I know now why. My trig and electronics teacher moved me to back after the second week or so. Power trips. A lot of teachers are like cops, then enjoy having authority over others.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
8. What is she? Jehovahs Witness?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:56 PM
Sep 2015

Can't be Amish, right, because don't they stay in their own communities?

These so-called religious freedom laws certainly are helping us sort out the assholes.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
15. Hindu
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:13 PM
Sep 2015
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/professor-citing-religious-grounds-refuses-to-wear-sound-device-for-hard-of-hearing-student

Panjabi, whose research interests include global history, terrorism and human rights, could not be reached for comment. The CBC reported that Panjabi had said in a previous interview that her Hindu beliefs prevented her from wearing the device.

Mandakrant Bose, a professor emerita at the UBC Institute of Asian research, said in an email that she was not aware of any tenets of the Hindu faith that prohibit someone from wearing an electronic device.


Unless the microphone is made of beef , her interpretation of Hinduism is pretty bizarre.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
50. "Panjabi's reason..based on...her personal spirituality and commitments."
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:10 PM
Sep 2015

snip

Panjabi's reason for not physically wearing the device "based not on a universal precept of a particular tradition, but on her personal spirituality and commitments."



http://www.vocm.com/mobile/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=57378

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
75. Interesting.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 12:17 AM
Sep 2015

Other reports suggested the University had agreed that she would never have to wear the transmitter - but the 1996 document linked to indicates that if (ultimately) other accommodations proved ineffective, her religious beliefs could not be accommodated.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
19. Yeah, those dang Canadians and their "so-called religious freedom laws"
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:28 PM
Sep 2015

Not to mention that the denial is based on an agreement worked out in 1996 in a prior incident with that same faculty member who is Hindu.

(Under US law, unless the University can offer an equivalent course - and perhaps even if they can - it would have to find a way to accommodate him.)

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
22. Under U.S. law . . .
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:39 PM
Sep 2015

. . . the university would also be required to accommodate the professor. According to the EEOC:

Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.

Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
24. Right there in your post
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:25 PM
Sep 2015

unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business.

So, looks like here in the US, she'd be out of luck.

Ms. Toad

(34,076 posts)
39. I didn't say it wasn't required to.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:47 PM
Sep 2015

You misunderstood my assertion about the student's rights to be a rejection of the faculty member's rights. They are not mutually exclusive.

Ultimately, the University cannot deny the young man an accommodation he needs because of a disability. Alternate accommodations might be to tape and transcribe the lectures, hire a note taker, hire a tutor, hire a live transcriptionist, require the instructor to create Panopto or other video lectures, to present via a live link that would permit him to participate removely, or run a second class with an equivalent instructor.

Depending on the nature of the class, he is entitled to the same benefit the other students receive. If it is a large lecture hall in which no one has the opportunity to be interactive either the taped and transcribed lectures, notetakers or Panopto solution works. If the class is interactive, he is entitled to participate in that. A live transcriptionist (near-simultaneous transcription used frequently for depositions), or a livelink would meet that need.

None of these solutions require the instructor to wear a transmitter, thus accommodating her religious beliefs.

That said, religious accommodations are not required if it places more than a minimal burden on the employer's business - this contrasts relatively sharply with the position regarding disabilities and education - in which case even relatively significant cost is not an excuse not to accommodate. I have not reviewed enough religious accommodation cases to know where the "minimal burden" line falls - but from what I know about educational accommodations, if the two meet head to head (e.g. there are no accommodations that can be implemented to meet both needs), I'm pretty sure it is religion that will lose. The language is much stronger in laws governing disability accommodations in education than those governing religious accommodations by employers.

brooklynite

(94,600 posts)
9. Clearly god made her student hearing disabled....
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:57 PM
Sep 2015

....so it would be unfair to force the teacher to challenge god's will.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
10. Does she use a telephone, listen to radio or watch television?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:00 PM
Sep 2015

If she does any of those, especially the first, she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Every one of those technologies uses a microphone and broadcasts a signal, just like the device the university has asked her to to do to accommodate the student.

She has a history of this nonsense:

In 1996, CBC News reported that MUN sided with a student who filed a similar complaint against Panjabi for refusing to wear one based on religious reasons.

Panjabi was also reprimanded in 1985 for a similar complaint.

While in each of those cases Memorial University sided with the students, so far the Sears family has been given no clear solution.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/hearing-memorial-university-1.3230439
 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
17. I don't get it
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:17 PM
Sep 2015

In the picture a person is speaking into a mic and facing a computer screen ( is this not the professor? ) was the device in question a wireless lavaleir mic operating on VHS or UHV frequency ?????? fire the moronic professor and give them a fucking clue about living in reality .

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
18. That happened with my daughter's first-grade teacher
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 05:23 PM
Sep 2015

Not on religious grounds, but still. My daughter has a moderate to severe bilateral (both ears) sensorineural hearing loss. The district's audiologist met with her first-grade teacher to request she wear the transmitting device, and to specify that my daughter should always be sitting at the front of the class, and that the teacher should avoid talking with her back to the class while writing on the board. Not all that difficult.

The teacher refused to wear the device, claiming she had 20 other students and had no time for that (it took no time). The audiologist was shocked, and told me she never had had a teacher who refused to cooperate that vehemently. She finally acceded to wear the device (I don't know who intervened), but she was truly mean to my daughter the entire year. We took it on the chin and told our daughter to buck up, but with many years' retrospect, I wish we hadn't.

Skittles

(153,169 posts)
77. hard to believe someone like that would even want to be a teacher
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 12:34 AM
Sep 2015

I think it would be cool to assist in helping a child learn in such a unique way

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
51. Hindu's believe in many gods
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:12 PM
Sep 2015

So which one made this decision? I ask you as you seem to have knowledge of such things

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
65. Whichever god was on duty during that class period.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 09:46 PM
Sep 2015

I am guessing it was probably Dhatr. He can be a jerk about these things.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
35. It "interfered with her personal karma"
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:03 PM
Sep 2015

According to a Montreal paper, "during the last incident, Panjabi said something to the effect that the electronic signal interfered with her personal karma."

sarge43

(28,941 posts)
38. Does she carrying a cell phone or use a computer or any kind of electronic device?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:46 PM
Sep 2015

Any of them could screw with personal karma.

Sounds like she just wants to be "special" or bully someone.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
36. what bullsh*t.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:12 PM
Sep 2015

this is just being a jerk. whatever convoluted reason she has connecting Hinduism with not helping this student, she should recognize that her slight discomfort is outweighed by the student's. Being a professor who is paid to share knowledge with students is a privilege. She is crapping on that privilege.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
41. What is ludicrous is that it is her own brand of spirituality
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:53 PM
Sep 2015

that the professor is using to ask for accommodation. imo religious accommodation should never trump other the rights of others. If one can't make any adjustments to fit into a job due to rigid beliefs than one should work for him or herself.

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
66. There's a slight Constitutional problem with that . . .
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 09:55 PM
Sep 2015

As I mentioned above, if an individual were required to make a showing of institutional validity to his or her claimed religious belief, that would put the courts in a position of having to rule on the validity of that person's religious beliefs -- something the courts really cannot do under the First Amendment. If there is, indeed, freedom of religion, then there are an infinite variety of religious beliefs. As soon as the courts begin to rule one belief to be a genuinely religious belief, and another not so, they would be crossing the line into religious doctrinal interpretation. What the law does instead is to place certain parameters on the circumstances in which a religious belief must be accommodated (i.e., it must be a reasonable accommodation that does not place more than a minimal burden on the employer's conduct of its business). That way, courts can treat everybody's religious beliefs equally without opening the can of worms of ruling on matters of religious doctrine.

Response to markpkessinger (Reply #66)

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
90. This thread is about Canada, and in terms of your US theory, ask the Rastas and the Church of
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 03:38 PM
Sep 2015

Cannabis about the government not judging which religious beliefs count and which do not. There is case law.

narnian60

(3,510 posts)
59. Retired, Texas public school teacher here.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 08:51 PM
Sep 2015

Wore a device around my neck one year for a hearing-impaired 5th grade student. Biggest problem was remembering to turn it off when I went to the restroom.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
76. Which religion
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 12:26 AM
Sep 2015

has "Thou shalt be an asshole" as one of the commandments? Because it seems like a lot of folks follow a religion that says "Go forth and be as awful as possible to as many people as possible."

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
80. This claim appears to be CYA bullshit from Panjabi
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 02:22 AM
Sep 2015

According to the student, Panjabi's initial reason for refusal to accomodate was her belief that mcDonald "would be unable to keep up woth the fast-paced class."

That is to say, because the "teacher" didn't feel like it and wanted to blame the student.

When brought to the administration, then Panjabi came up with this religious belief thing,m where she practices some form of Hindu mysticism and that

"The microphone would interfere in the harmony I must always feel between my inner self and my outer person," Panjabi told the Muse at the time.

"Nothing must mar the soul's identification with the person."


And...

In 1985, Panjabi refused to wear a microphone to assist hearing-impaired student Jeanie Bavis.

Bavis alleges that Panjabi did not cite religious reasons that time.

"[Panjabi] said she wasn't going to wear it because she didn't have to and it wasn't in her contract," Bavis told the Muse.

"There was certainly no religious excuse."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/memorial-university-hearing-disability-complaint-1.3233886

Ranee Panjabi is just being a big douchebag.
 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
91. She's just using the religious excuse because she's a total
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 03:43 PM
Sep 2015

a**hole. Figures. That's usually how it is with these types. Underneath it all, they are just a**holes trying to make things difficult for other people or to call attention to their puny, narcissistic little selves.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
83. Well, you know, the words are 'reasonable accommodation'.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 06:42 AM
Sep 2015

A 'reasonable' accommodation for BOTH is not for her to 'wear' anything, but simply to have some sort of microphone setup elsewhere in the room that catches what she says and transmits it to him.

I don't think it's reasonable to make other people 'wear' things to accommodate you, nor is it reasonable to flat out deny the student the chance to hear the lectures for which he's presumably paid.

Now some people might say 'oh, but it won't work as well if she turns away'. Well guess what. Neither do our regular ears. The rest of the class isn't hearing her as well when she turns away either, which is why professors sometimes get asked to repeat something they said. So he wouldn't be getting singled out there, either.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
85. Does this university have an engineering department?
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:10 PM
Sep 2015

Get the engineering students to work on a parabolic mike or something.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
86. Interesting. One of the colleges I taught at had a similar prob with a Muslim prof years ago.
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 03:14 PM
Sep 2015

It was an almost identical problem, too. The school had microphones that hung on lanyards around the professors necks that tied into our RF systems for hearing impaired students. Eventually a student complained because one of our Muslim teachers refused to wear it. He explained that many electronics contain trace amounts of gold (which is true) and that Islam explicitly prohibits men from wearing gold on their bodies. Unless the school could certify, in writing, that the microphones contained no gold, he refused to wear it.

The solution? The schools disability services department parked a student worker in the front row of his class with a handheld boom mic for the semester. The hearing impaired student got to hear the lecture, and the teacher didn't have to violate the tenets of his faith. Oh, and a student worker got paid to sit there holding a mic for hours. Everyone involved walked away happy.

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