DU NRA members...Do you support the leader, Wayne LaPierre?

[trumad]

Last edited Sun Oct 4, 2015, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Ok... It appears that there are several here on DU who are NRA members----and most likely are dues paying members.

Do you support the leader of the NRA Wayne LaPierre?

[Duckhunter935]

1. Not an NRA member

But no

[Hoyt]

2. Seems to me, anyone who is a member of that racist organization, would drop out.

They'll rationalize it by saying NRA membership gives them gun oriented benefits.

Of course, you never see them encouraging folks to vote against leadership like Ted Nugent, Grover norquist, John Bolton, Ollie North, gun profiteers, etc.

Some don't admit their membership.

[trumad]

3. Again...

If they pay dues they fund LaPierre's leadership. Which by the way is 972,000 per year.

[Hoyt]

4. There are a lot of free-riders too who support the NRA's gun promotion, but

are too cheap to pay dues, or don't for other reasons.

[CTyankee]

5. I don't think any DUer would ADMIT being an NRA member but I have seen them do

and say exactly the NRA line and then deny they belong to the NRA (in the Gungeon). I don't believe them but I no longer see them since I trashed the Gungeon and put its denizens on Ignore and Jury Blacklist. Life is better that way.

[aikoaiko]

6. No and I'm trying to get rid of him.

For about 5 years prior to the Sandy Hook massacre there were some minor rumblings about WLP's rhetoric. I was making some headway on the over-the-top rhetoric about Obama. Dissatisfaction with WLP reached a peak after his bizarre speech after Sandy Hook.

I was in direct contact with two Board Directors who were agreeing with me in principle that his style of leadership could no longer work for the NRA. But when all the gun control legislation was defeated, his power was fortified. One director won't even take my calls now and the other won't discuss that topic.

I'm grateful that the NRA has protected my RKBA, but I don't want to do it the way WLP and Chris Cox have been doing it.

The NRA can work with legislators to reduce gun crimes and they did it after the VATech shooting

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-democrats-team-up-to-pass-gun-bill/

After 52 years in Congress, John Dingell knows it sometimes takes a "rather curious alliance," such as between the National Rifle Association and the House's most fervent gun control advocate, to move legislation.

That's what took place Wednesday when the House, by voice vote, passed a gun control bill that Rep. Dingell, D-Mich., helped broker between the NRA and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y.

With the NRA on board, the bill, which fixes flaws in the national gun background check system that allowed the Virginia Tech shooter to buy guns despite his mental health problems, has a good chance of becoming the first major gun control law in more than a decade.

"We'll work with anyone, if you protect the rights of law-abiding people under the second amendment and you target people that shouldn't have guns," NRA chief Wayne LaPierre told CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Atkisson

[trumad]

7. Do you pay dues?

[aikoaiko]

8. Yes, it's required in order to vote on Board of Directors.

[trumad]

9. There's the rub.

Your dues fund LaPierre.

[aikoaiko]

11. Yes. The price one pays for trying to change from the inside

I'm sure it seems pointless or impossible to some one like you, but the NRA has changed several times over the 100+ years. It will change again.

I'll be honest and say that I have a lot of mixed feelings about my membership.

[trumad]

14. I like your honestly and answers..

Thanks

[DashOneBravo]

16. I haven't belonged since the 80's

and I left when they went off the rails. But I've been considering rejoining for that very reason.

I'm betting it's going to take a lot of members speaking up before changes occur.

[GGJohn]

10. This sounds like a call out of DU members. eom.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. It is. n/t

[trumad]

13. I've edited not to offend.

Thanks

[GGJohn]

15. Fair enough, and for the record,

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the NRA and I would like to see a more moderate position from the leadership while at the same time protecting our 2A.

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. Who would admit it?

Really.

[branford]

18. There are 80-100+ million legal gun owners in the USA.

The NRA has about 5 million members, and only represents 5-6% of gun owners.

Accordingly, it's unlikely that there's a significant crossover among NRA and DU members who support gun rights.

However, some shooting ranges, sport clubs and similar establishment either require NRA membership as a condition of inclusion or provide it as a benefit. It sometimes cannot be avoided in many areas. NRA membership is also the only way to effectively try to change the organization from within.

Note that I've never owned any firearms and am not a member of the NRA.

[etherealtruth]

19. who here would be a member of right wing hate group

IN LATEST SHOW OF EXTREMISM, THE NRA HOSTS A MUSLIM-BASHER
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2012/04/10/latest-show-extremism-nra-hosts-muslim-basher

The NRA is a far-right conservative organization that works against Democrats

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/15/1336791/-The-NRA-is-a-far-right-conservative-organization-that-works-against-Democrats

Nicholas Wapshott
How the NRA hijacked the Republican Party

http://blogs.reuters.com/nicholas-wapshott/2013/01/18/how-the-nra-hijacked-the-republican-party/

really, why would a DU member want anything to do with a right wing hate group?

[branford]

20. The NRA is a one issue organization.

They have and do support a diminishing number of Democrats. However, this is because our party has recently taken an increasingly shrill attitude toward firearms and firearm owners.

The best way to neuter the NRA (and help Democratic candidates in many competitive areas of the country) is for our Party leaders to back-off strident gun control policies.

[etherealtruth]

22. I think you forgot the sarcasm icon

No one would believe the best way to deal with a hate group is to appease them (well, I guess there are those that do believe appeasing hate groups are the way to go)


the best way to defeat them is to stand up to them.

My two senators, my congress critters, my state senator and state rep are Democrats (rated extremely poorly by the NRA), as is my president.

I will stand up for what is right

[branford]

24. The GOP controls the senate, has the largest majority in the House in generations,

and it controls more statehouse and governorship than ever before. Support for gun rights and against restrictions is at generational high and steadily increasing. If the NRA disappeared tomorrow, another group would immediately take its place, and it would probably be even more extreme.

I believe in a broad progressive agenda. In order to accomplish this, we need to actually win elections. Gun control, with or without the NRA, is a big electoral loser, just ask Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and now President Obama.

If you want to spend your time picking fights over gun control with the NRA, be my guest, but don't drag the Democratic Party and the potential for liberal policies down with you.

[etherealtruth]

26. i have heard this stupidity before ... if only we let go of a woman's right to choose go ....

... if only we did not back marriage equality

i have heard all of this and more: (you) "I believe in a broad progressive agenda. In order to accomplish this, we need to actually win elections. Gun control(/ abortion/Gay marriage ... ), is a big electoral loser ...

I prefer to do the right thing .... you seem to forget Obama was elected POTUS twice (so was bill clinto despite tremendous personal scandals) ... I will stick with doing what is right and just

[branford]

30. Bill Clinton lost control of Congress,

and the Speaker of the House lost his bid for reelection, and Clinton widely attributed the loss to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, a law that ultimately expired and both the DOJ and NIJ under Obama found to have been ineffective. Similarly, Al Gore's loss of his home state of Tennessee and the presidency was widely blamed on his gun control positions. In the last few elections, virtually every Democrat in pro-gun and competitive states was thrown-out of office. All this plus events like Sandy Hook, and support for gun rights continues to grow. Just think of the possibilities if some of these unnecessary political failures never happened.

Your purported "doing the right thing" is endangering liberal polices nationally and in most states for a generation or more. It also is not supported by a great many Democratic gun owners and their supporters (like myself).

The Democratic Party mostly realizes they have to walk a fine line with gun control, and people like you pushing such minority and unpopular positions hurts Democratic candidates and constituencies on a myriad of issues beyond guns.

For reference, here's the Democratic Party Platform concerning firearms:

Firearms. We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements—like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole—so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[Paladin]

73. Google "NRA graphic novel" and take a good, hard look at it.

Then try that "The NRA is a one issue organization" line out on us again. It would be laughable if it weren't such an obvious NRA talking point.

[Rex]

21. Good question.

What is funny is watching two or three 'progessives' flop all over themselves defending the culture of death.

Sad really.

[etherealtruth]

23. Progressives, democrats, liberals do NOT support right wing hate groups n/t

[Rex]

25. 80% of Americans want some kind of strickter gun control laws.

That came out after Sandy Hooks and still Congress said NO, we are scared of losing seats. You know who said that? The GOP!

So people can either side with the GOP/NRA or they can side with the Democratic party. Thankfully it is easy to see which posters support a hate group and which ones support the party DU votes for.

[GGJohn]

31. Wrong.

90% of Americans want UBC's, but after that, support for more gun control laws falls sharply, the latest Pew Research Poll now shows that more Americans support firearms rights over more control laws.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/17/despite-lower-crime-rates-support-for-gun-rights-increases/

April 17, 2015

Despite lower crime rates, support for gun rights increases

By Andrew Kohut38 comments

.
For most of the 1990s and the subsequent decade, a substantial majority of Americans believed it was more important to control gun ownership than to protect gun owners’ rights. But in December 2014, the balance of opinion flipped: For the first time, more Americans say that protecting gun rights is more important than controlling gun ownership, 52% to 46%.

A shift in favor of gun rightsWhy has public opinion shifted about gun control? As my colleagues at Pew Research Center have documented elsewhere, some of this is related to politics, as Republicans have become far more supportive of gun rights during the Obama years. The rise in support for gun rights has also spanned many other regional and demographic groups.

But there may be another factor behind this shift: Americans’ changing perceptions about crime. Over the past 25 years or so, there has been a divergence between American perceptions about crime and actual crime rates. And those who worried about crime had favored stricter gun control; now, they tend to desire keeping the laws as they are or loosening gun control. In short, we are at a moment when most Americans believe crime rates are rising and when most believe gun ownership – not gun control – makes people safer.

Public Perception of Crime Rate at Odds with RealityIn the 1990s, the rate of violent crimes plummeted by more than half nationwide. Public perceptions tracked right along, with the share saying there was more crime in the U.S. over the past year falling from 87% in 1993 to just 41% by 2001.

In the new century, however, there’s been a disconnect. A majority of Americans (63%) said in a Gallup survey last year that crime was on the rise, despite crime statistics holding near 20-year lows.

[Rex]

33. Take it up with the M$M, they reported exactly what I typed.

So I guess you are wrong, imagine that.

[GGJohn]

36. No, I'm not wrong, I supplied a link that proves you and the MSM wrong,

Imagine that.

[Rex]

37. Yes you be wrong.

80% of the people wanted gun control after Sandy Hooks and Congress said no. Maybe if you try reading something on current events instead of googling instantly and failing.

[GGJohn]

40. Yes, 90% of Americans wanted UBC's, but then any further control fell off sharply. eom.

[Rex]

41. Wrong.

[GGJohn]

42. I posted a link, what have you posted to disprove me? eom.

[Rex]

43. You are wrong I remember exactly what happened that day.

And what the media said. Please go and try to change the subject with someone else. You are wasting my time like your friend.

[GGJohn]

45. I remember that day also,

we would have had UBC's if not for the failure of Reid to change the filibuster rule, a rule that several Democrats, including Dianne Feinstein, voted against.
The UBC bill garnered 54 votes, more than enough to pass if not for the filibuster, and the National Reciprocity bill would have passed also, but again, because of the filibuster, a simple majority vote wasn't good enough.

[pintobean]

47. What is Sandy Hooks?

It's not a typo, it's in at least three posts.
Do you mean Sandy Hook?

[branford]

32. Really?

You and I must be living in a different universe.


http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-have-no-impact-on-support-for-gun-rights-in-the-us

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179213/six-americans-say-guns-homes-safer.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/10/growing-public-support-for-gun-rights/

[Rex]

34. Take it up with the media, they report you decide.

You probably don't even remember Sandy Hooks so I won't waste my time with you.

[branford]

39. Don't tell me what someone might have said.

I assume you can read as well as I, and I provided links to Gallup, Pew and others, and there's more if you want to search yourself.

If you have other reliable data that actually supports your contention, I would love to read it. Kindly provide a citation or link.

[Rex]

44. You have nothing. You are wrong on all counts.

How many firearms do you own or have shot or how many gun clubs do you belong to? Zero?

[GGJohn]

46. I myself have 4 safes full of ammo and various firearms and the only gun club I belong to is this

one.

http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

[Rex]

48. SO this is what you guys do all day in the gungeon?

Yuck, glad I avoid that place.

[GGJohn]

49. I'm not in the GCRKBA group during the day,

We own and run a farm to run, which takes up most of my week, about the only day I get off, if I'm lucky, is Sunday.

[branford]

50. Let's try this again...

You explicitly claimed "80% of Americans want some kind of stricter gun control laws."

I provided a number of polls from Gallup, Pew and others that clearly contradict your claim.

Can you actually provide any reliable source that supports your figure, or is it simply aspirational?


Lastly, to the extent it's at all relevant, as I've indicated numerous times, I have never owned a firearm and belong to no gun clubs or organizations.

[Rex]

51. SO no answer then?

I knew this was a waste of my time. Oh well, goodluck finding someone else to waste time on.

[branford]

53. Huh?

You are unable to cite anything in support of your claim, therefore you're right, despite actual evidence to the contrary?

I want some of whatever you're smoking...

[pintobean]

54. Welcome to arguing with Rex.

[Rex]

55. So you are all that is left from this one huh?

[pintobean]

56. I have no idea what that is suppose to mean

but you seem to be amusing yourself.

[donco]

28. Sure we do. NT

[etherealtruth]

29. i don't think supporting a right wing hate group is compatible with being a democrat or ...

... progressive.

One does not support a group that fights against their claimed beliefs (all of them except guns).

[Rex]

35. I agree 100%.

[branford]

38. Your calling the NRA a right-wing hate group doesn't make it so,

and more importantly, you get to decide what is or is not compatible with being a good Democrat.

Whether you like it or not, more than 1 in 3 American adults own a firearm, and a great many of these people and more are loyal and committed Democrats who also support gun rights.

As cited in my post #30, our Democratic Party Platform clearly recognizes an individual right to bear arms. You might want to consider that your views are not compatible with the Party.

[etherealtruth]

60. The SPLC, right wing watch .... I suppose those are "fringe groups"

The Democratic party does not support free and unfettered access to guns, nor does the democratic party support the NRA (and importantly the NRA works AGAINST democrats, even pro-gun democrats)

it is sad day when one has to argue against the NRA here. All of your posts are in response to attacks on the NRA? Wow.

My posts have all been in opposition to the NRA (i have said little or nothing about guns) ... Very odd that you defend the NRA (not guns, the NRA)

[aikoaiko]

62. The NRA doesn't argue for "free and unfettered access to guns"

And they have endorsed Democrats over Republicans when the Democrat was better on RKBA.

[etherealtruth]

64. since 2010 the NRA took steps to correct the problem of accidentally supporting a few pro-gun Dems

The NRA is a far-right conservative organization that works against Democrats

Why would they "take heat" for supporting pro-gun Democrats? Oh right, because having the "correct" opinions about guns isn't sufficient for support, you also have to have the "correct" opinions on minorities, and the inherent evil of government, and all the other far-right notions that Wayne LaPierre and his legion of protoconfederates froth on about during one of their many speeches. Anyway, since 2010 the NRA took steps to correct the problem of accidentally supporting a few pro-gun Democrats here and there. And they're shelling out a lot more cash these days as well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/15/1336791/-The-NRA-is-a-far-right-conservative-organization-that-works-against-Democrats

Democrats Who Stand With the NRA Win Nothing
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119716/nra-and-gun-control-politics-arent-dominating-midterms

[aikoaiko]

65. And yet they still endorse some Democrats over republicans

And yes RWs hate it.

And we lost a lot of congressional seats since 2010for a lot of reasons

[etherealtruth]

67. It is a rarity and serves to prove the point rather than disprove it

this isn't a conversation about guns or gun rights its a conversation about a right wing organization that foments hate (it may be to boost gun sales and fight any limits on gun ownership, but they use bigotry and hate in order to do this).

is this acceptable to you ? I have never seen any expressions of bigotry and hate in your postings .... does the NRA speak for you? is any tactic acceptable?

[aikoaiko]

69. I can support a groups goal and disapprove of their tactics.

This is why I'd like to get rid of LaPierre and Chris Cox.

The NRA has been around a long time and their positions and tactics have changed. It will change again and hopefully soon.

I have to go take care of the family now. I'll come back to this thread later.

I respect you ET.

[etherealtruth]

71. I don't believe the ends justify the means

The NRA is not the NRA of your youth (actually, it could be if you are younger than 35).

We are likely always going to disagree on the levels of gun regulation we want to see ... but this isn't about "guns" this is about how far is too far to go in advocacy of a position.

I always enjoy talking to you

[etherealtruth]

72. Groups like Liberal Gun Club cater to those who are pro-2nd Amendment but don’t agree ....

.... with the ideals of right-wing gun organizations.

http://www.mintpressnews.com/unwelcome-in-the-nra-liberal-leaning-americans-form-their-own-clubs/176174/
Since many gun ranges are controlled by local ‘gun clubs’ and require membership in a right-wing gun group, many liberal gun owners don’t get the chance to operate their weapons. As a result, many don’t learn how to properly handle and care for their firearms, and therefore are unable to use them properly during an emergency situation, which is where the liberal gun groups come in.

On its website, the Liberal Gun Club says that it provides “a voice to the millions of gun owners who do not subscribe to the right-wing rhetoric surrounding firearm ownership by engaging politicians as well as the public on important firearms issues,” and offers safety and marksmanship programs.

While local chapters do get involved in gun-related politics, Gardner says the national organization focuses more on education and outreach programs.

[aikoaiko]

74. I am a dues paying member of that group, too, but they don't do politics.

The NRA is the most politically effective lesser of several evils.

[etherealtruth]

75. Hahaha ... I wrote a pleasant response to you ...

... and came home to find I never sent it (nor did I shut down my computer or close my browser).

I am too tired to talk about the NRA or guns, but the gist of my unsent response was that is is always nice to have a civil respectful discussion with you despite, our disagreement on this subject

[aikoaiko]

76. Thank you etherialtruth. I feel the same way.

[aikoaiko]

63. What beliefs does the NRA fight against that I or someone like me claims to believe?

Let me add that it is true that RWers have. Strangle hold on the NRA but the organization is still mostly dedicated and committed to supporting the right to keep and bear arms as a civil liberty

[etherealtruth]

66. Do you agree with fomenting anti muslim hate?

i realize that the NRA stirs bigotry in order to incite fear .... but I do NOT believe for one moment that you advocate that

IN LATEST SHOW OF EXTREMISM, THE NRA HOSTS A MUSLIM-BASHER
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2012/04/10/latest-show-extremism-nra-hosts-muslim-basher

This is just one of many examples of them encouraging and supporting hate and bogotry .... the SPLC and right wing watch keep a very watchful eye .... neither the SPLC or right wing watch are inherently anti gun .... they are anti hate and anti NRA

[aikoaiko]

68. Islamophobia is repugnant but the NRA has no position on Islam

I also believe the SPLC and Liberals are right to criticize the NRA for hosting such a speaker just as we were right to criticize Pres Obama for having Rick Warrens to speak. Sadly the NRA brings in these types if they support the NRA position on RKBA or just to pander to RWers.

As I said before, the RWers have a stranglehold on the NRA, but there are still Democrats who are members and some are even elected officials.

[etherealtruth]

70. There is no cause that I support where I would support advocates fomenting hate

One can't eschew hatred and bigotry and support a group that uses it as a tool.

i will admit the NRA harnesses bigotry and hate very effectively .... supporting the NRA is at cross purposes for any democrat or liberal.

there is no cause I support where I would trade my other values

[yeoman6987]

52. I will be watching the democratic debate to see what new

Gun control laws they will propose as president. This aught to be interesting. Do you think gun control will be mentioned at all? What will the platform be. We will see how serious are candidates are. Time is ticking....only about 11 days to go.

[branford]

57. The candidates will discuss "gun safety,"

offer some platitudes ensuring the audience they respect the American tradition and right of gun ownership, assert how "we can do better," and maybe shill for universal background checks. O'Malley may back a new assault weapons ban and magazine limits in order to distinguish himself. He may even say we need to abolish the PLCAA if for no other reason that to gain some notoriety because the press is basically ignoring him.

There will absolutely no mention of repealing or altering the Second Amendment, "gun culture," or anything resembling a general insult to gun owners, as many of them are voting Democrats in important competitive states.

[oneshooter]

27. No n/t

[MFM008]

58. In the NRA in the 80s

when the leadership wasn't batshit crazy.

[ibegurpard]

59. The NRA is barely a "gun organization."

It's a right-wing fundraising and shakedown squad. They would endorse a Republican over a Democrat even if both of them were 100% on their issues. Standing up for reasonable gun rights does not mean one aligns with the NRA. Many gun owners would be perfectly fine with limitations like background checks and stricter regulations on sales.

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

61. Of course they do, if they pay or paid money to the NRA they support them, warts and all

People freely CHOOSE to give Money to the NRA, therefor they Support the Organization and Leadership.

No I am not an NRA member, never was, nor GOA.

The gun owners should be proud in fact they should put guns in their DU picture.

Be out and proud gun owners!