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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs Ronda Rousey A Role Model? Salon.com Says No.
Rowdy Ronda Rousey is an incredible fighter, an Olympian, a movie star, maybe even a burgeoning fashonista and if you go by countless Internet headlines about the UFC womens bantamweight champion an icon and a role model.
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While Rousey is all people say she is (and more) athletically, outside of martial feats, her role model status is questionable. First, Rousey has a history of highly transphobic remarks and flat-out ignorance when it comes to trans athletes. In 2013, when UFC fighter Matt Mitrione made offensive comments about transgender MMA fighter Fallon Fox, calling her a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak, the New York Post asked Rousey for her thoughts on Mitriones words. Rousey said he expressed himself extremely poorly and that she could understand the UFC doesnt want to be associated with views like that. But in that same interview, Rousey didnt exactly demonstrate a predilection for sensitivity. She can try hormones, chop her pecker off, but its still the same bone structure a man has, Rousey said about Fox. What if she became UFC champion and we had a transgender womens champion? Its a very socially difficult situation.
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Rousey then wrote that Snappers McCreepy begged her to let him explain. She refused. He was blocking the door and wouldnt move out of the way. So she punched him in the face with a straight right, then a left hook. She slapped him again. He still didnt move, so she grabbed him by the neck of his hoodie, kneed him in the face, and tossed him aside on the kitchen floor.
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Shes also a transphobe, a body-shamer, and a Sandy Hook truther. A winning combination inside the Octagon, perhaps, but certainly not outside of it. Ronda Rousey isnt a hero. Ronda Rousey isnt a role model. Ronda Rousey beats people up in a cage. Lets not pretend she does more than that.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/17/since_when_is_ronda_rousey_a_role_model/
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I mean, the whole point is to beat your opponent into submission.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)all the ways she sucks as a person, to her face. Make sure someone gets a cell phone recording of it and puts it on youtube, otherwise it didn't happen
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)erpowers
(9,350 posts)It seems that it is okay to criticize the likes of Floyd Mayweather and others, but it is not okay to criticize Ronda Rousey. Rousey has said many negative things about Floyd Mayweather, but has not said any of them to his face. For some reason no one has told Rousey to say those things to Mayweather's face. Also, I do not recall anyone who said negative things about Floyd Mayweather, Ray Rice, or Michael Vick being told to say it to their face.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...that implying that anyone doing that has something to fear *makes the OPs point*?
"She is NOT a bad role model! And if you dare go say that to her face she'll commit assault against you just like any good role model would!"
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I like to watch people do inadvisable things on youtube... this odds of this turning into such a video seem high.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Quite the role model yourself aren't you?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Stupid is as stupid does.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)This is ridiculous. And fucking embarrassing.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I'm quite sure she can kick my scrawny ass, but that doesn't mean she should be immune to being called out on being a bigot.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I just feel that we shouldn't be putting a transphobe up on a pedestal.[/font]
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Biological sex does not dictate gender, which is a largely cultural construct that's influenced but by no means determined by biological sex. However, biological sex does determine a number of purely physical characteristics, among which are relative strength and speed for a given body mass. A trans female of a given weight, even one undergoing hormone treatments, will have a significant advantage in strength over a cis female of that same weight. In many sports, an advantage in strength can be extremely telling. That creates an un-level playing field, which is antithetical to the very concept of sport.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Someone who has been under the effects of HRT for two years has a complete muscle and fat redistribution.
Further, HRT weakens bones and a person who has had SRS has less testosterone running in their system due to a lack of both ovaries and testes.
So the only "advantage" a trans athlete would have is height from a male puberty, something that is greatly offset by the disadvantages.
If a bit of height is that big of a problem, you might as well require people only of the same height to fight cause there are some FAAB women who are over 6ft tall (Kerri Walsh Jennings). Not to mention CAIS women who due to the genes on their y chromosome tend to grow far taller than average.
EVEN Still, Fallon Fox is almost exactly the same size as Rousey so that argument does not hold water.
Note that even the story notes there is no real advantage. [/font]
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Which links to here:[/font]
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/heroes-martyrs-and-myths-the-battle-for-the-rights-of-transgender-athletes
"According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a transgender girl or woman competing on a women's team would have a competitive advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported by evidence."
Indeed, the question of competitive advantage has long since been settled by the medical community. But that has not stopped detractors from questioning trans athletes' participation.
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Here are the two fighters stats in regards to height and weight:[/font]
[center]Fallon Fox: 5'7" 143lbf (featherweight)
Ronda Rousey: 5'7" 136lbf (featherweight)[/center]
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)If someone has indeed completed that redistribution (and can document the fact), and remain with no unfair competitive advantage, then I see no problems.
Absent such redistribution, however, the problem I described remains. The linked article describes efforts made by the IOC to base male/female assignment for competition on hormone levels, not chromosomes. While I certainly support making this judgement based on scientific evidence, it's scientifically inarguable that higher levels of tetosterone allow an athlete to build greater muscle mass, possess higher bone density, and a number of other well-documented physical characteristics that woudl provide a competitive advantage in many sports. Establishing ranges of levels of relevant hormones for the purpose of male/female classification is sports seems like the best course of action to both protect trans athletes and ensure the integrity of athletic competition.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Seeing as Fox underwent SRS in 2006 (meaning she has no ovaries/testes) her testosterone levels should actually be lower than a typical female and she should have a completely feminine muscle distribution.
I see no reason Rousey should continue avoiding the fight.
To be honest, given that Rousey is undefeated and Fox is not, I would suspect Rousey would win...but, being the big LGBTQ+ advocate that I am, I would be rooting for Fox [/font]
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I also suspect Rousey would win, although I'd be rooting for Fox, too. I like watching Rousey fight (she's simply superb), but I also think she's an ass (and kinda un-bright).
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Now, is she a positive role model?
Johonny
(20,842 posts)Erose999
(5,624 posts)of articles about Taylor Swift. Every day there were 10 articles about Taylor and white privilege, Taylor Swift and gentrification, Taylor Swift and neocolonialism, etc etc etc.
Then when Ryan Adams did a cover album of T.Swift songs and said he considers her to be an artistic peer, they attacked him for "mansplaining" her music.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)I could give a flying fuck about your secret affairs with athletes, etc. Salon.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Never got the deification of her...true, it was deification by espn.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Full of dirty little semantic tricks, like quoting the horrible things Matt Mitrione said about Fox, and then implying Rousey just didn't object strongly enough. It tries to give the impression she agreed with his bigotry, which it's clear she did not.
Then the writer tries to equate her socking a peeping-Tom boyfriend, a trained fighter himself, in order to *escape* to Floyd Mayweather, who continues to get the richest boxing gigs in history, despite literally being a criminal abuser of the women in his life.
This is a former MMA website columnist writing this, and his "hot take" is that the only female to gain recognition as a monumental athlete in combat sports is a terrible person because she might have smacked a peeping Tom out of her way, or didn't provide a sophisticated point of view on transgender athletes?
Meanwhile, male boxers and football players who have beaten their spouses half to death are only now facing public criticism. The UFC light heavyweight champion lost his belt after fleeing a hit-and-run that injured a pregnant woman.
But Rousey's the one unduly loved?
Came across as straight up misogyny to me. Just sounds like this guy doesn't like Ronda Rousey because she's receiving accolades in a male-dominated sport he used to write about.
Gross.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)erpowers
(9,350 posts)She did not just smack the ex-boyfriend. She assaulted him. She slapped him twice, punched him twice, kneed him, and then threw him across the room. If a man attacked his then girlfriend solely for taking naked picture of him and then asking to be allowed to explain her actions people would go ballistic. We should do the same when women do that to men. It should not be okay for a woman to do things like that to a man. It is wrong for a man to assault a woman. It should be wrong for a woman to assault a man.
It did not come across as misogyny to me. It came across as a person who wanted a female fighter to be held to the same standard as male fighters. He also wanted her hypocrisy to be called out and discussed. At the same time she is calling out Floyd Mayweather for having beaten women she had beaten a former boyfriend and then started dating a fighter who was accused of domestic violence.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Even the slimy Salon hit piece says that. This is America -- you can shoot someone for shaking popcorn at you. A peeping Tom blocking your exit from his apartment should be grateful for a knee to the face.
She's not Floyd Mayweather kidnapping and beating his ex wife in front of his children, or War Machine putting his ex-girlfriend in the hospital with shattered bones.
The whole piece is dodgy and stretching in every possible direction.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)He was nuts then too...
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)It's sad when an athlete who seems like they have a way out through sports keeps repeating the same mistakes. So much rage in that guy. And maybe mental illness?
That said, his horrific, near-fatal assault on his ex puts him beyond sympathy. He needs to remain locked up for a long time, which I presume he will.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Dude was a physical beast back then as well and invited punishment for laughs...
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Glad to know it wasn't just me.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Proving she can be as much an asshole as any man because violence solves everything.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Salon dot com isn't some monolithic entity with it's own thoughts. They will print anything. They have provided some excellent articles as well as some really poor ones. Ali did some things no one would ever consider to be role model worthy. Yet I will hold him up to scrutiny.
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)Years ago, Salon was kind of a cool, edgy, one-of-a-kind site on the Web. I remember being a paying member for a while. They offered up a CD's worth of MP3s every month that resulted in a diverse, often entertaining mix CD.
And yeah, you're right, the excellence isn't gone...they've just felt the steamroller effect of too many voices, many superior, on the World Wide Web in 2015.
Initech
(100,068 posts)Take my money now, UFC!
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)she was like 8 or 9.
Paula Sims
(877 posts)When I met her mother (AnnMaria) I had no idea who she was other than her technical skills and then someone clued me in to who AnnMaria was. IF the above it true (and I have no idea, I never met Ronda), I can assure you her mother is just the opposite. Given the other comments about Salon, I have my doubts about the article. Then again, my niece who's into this stuff said Ronda is a classless competitor who refused to shake the hand of her opponent. I'm not sure what to think.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)That last one got pretty mouthy... and then lasted 34 whopping seconds...
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Ronda's father committed suicide.