Eastern Europe’s Compassion Deficit

[uawchild]

Sofia, Bulgaria — COMMENTING on the flow of migrants making their way through Hungary to Austria and Germany, a Hungarian journalist told me recently: “We don’t have cities anymore. Only an extended railway station.”

Twenty years ago, Hungary and its Eastern European neighbors were transitional, post-Communist societies, and several — Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia — still are. Now, overnight, these transitional countries have become transit countries. As a result, along with the influx of hundreds of thousands of migrants, Europe must also worry about the wedge that the crisis is driving between its eastern and western halves.

The “truck of shame” in Austria and the scenes of drowned migrants have forced a wave of compassion in many Western European countries. In Germany, 60 percent of the public supports its government’s giving shelter to as many as 800,000 refugees, equal to almost 1 percent of the country’s population.

Yet in Eastern Europe the public remains unmoved, and leaders there have lambasted Brussels’s decision to redistribute refugees among European Union member states. Majorities in the transit countries support building walls on their borders; a recent poll in the Czech Republic shows that 44 percent insist that the government not spend even one additional koruna to help the migrants."

"...What’s the matter with Eastern Europe? Just three decades ago, “Solidarity” was its symbol. Today, a more appropriate symbol would be a bumper sticker reading “Eastern Europe: Where Donald Trump comes off looking good.” "

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/opinion/eastern-europes-compassion-deficit-refugees-migrants.html?_r=0
========================

Good lord. These are EU and NATO members, by and large. How does such intolerance color the policies of both those organizations now? More militarism? More xenophobia?

[Fred Sanders]

1. Canada, under new leadership, has pledged to bring in 24,000 refugees by Christmas.

Meaning America, bearing some of the historical responsibility for this unnatural humanitarian crisis one could argue, would have to pledge to 300,000.

And should. The human treasure of so many needy and soon to be grateful human beings and future taxpayers, the net positive to be gained, is immense.

I think only Martin has made a meaningful pledge and a detailed plan of how that would work and has mentioned it more than in passing.

[ryan_cats]

3. How

How many are you taking in?

[uawchild]

5. hmmm. let's do the math.

Canada, population 35.16 million is taking in 24,000 refugees. That's um, 0.000683 refugees per person.

Fred_Sanders-istan, population 1, should therefore be responsible for "taking in" 0.000683 of a refugee.

Ok, the silliness is over. What is your point exactly?

[ryan_cats]

16. Several points

Several points but number one is if he is volunteering me to take some in due to his compassionate largess, how many is he taking?

I mean how else could we be virtuous if we didn't feel something for the rabble, especially, if all it takes to prove compassion to one's self is to post about how we (meaning you, I'm doing my share posting about it) should do something?

[LiberalEsto]

2. As a person of Eastern European descent, I feel it's unfair to brand EE as uniformly intolerant

There are xenophobes and racists everywhere in the world, not just in Eastern Europe. Look at the U.S., where people of African-American descent are shot and killed by police or incarcerated in hugely disproportionate numbers, sometimes for no reason other than for being black.

Of course the fact that this sickness exists here does not excuse intolerance elsewhere. There are good people in the U.S. fighting racism, just as there are good people in Eastern Europe who oppose the violence and hatred stirred up by rightwing politicians and the jerks who need someone else to bully in order to feel better about their own pathetic selves.

However, let me remind us that the people of Eastern Europe have only emerged in the past 20-odd years from decades of Soviet oppression and isolation from other parts of the world. During the Soviet era major efforts were made to suppress ethnic and cultural identities, languages and history in the occupied states. I can personally speak to the experience of Estonians because of what my cousins and aunt there told me when I visited them in recent years. Estonians struggled hard to secretly preserve their native language and traditions at a time when their children were forced to attend Russian-only schools and forbidden to speak Estonian.

People in Europe have very legitimate concerns about being overwhelmed by the huge number of refugees, the costs of housing and feeding them, and the issues over how to integrate them into communities. Estonia is a country with about 1.3 million people, and about 300,000 of them are Russians shipped in by the Soviet Union decades ago in its campaign to "Russify" Estonia (destroy its national identity). Many tens of thousands of Estonians were deported to labor camps in Siberia at the same time. Similar things happened in Latvia and Lithuania; however I can't speak for other Eastern European nations. These imported Russians refused to learn the local languages despite some of them having lived in the Baltic countries for 50-plus years, and they bitched like mad when the Baltic nations regained their freedom and asked the unwanted Russian population to master a little basic Estonian, Latvian or Lithuanian. In other words, it's okay for Russians to force other peoples to speak ONLY Russian, but it's not okay for other people to ask that Russians learn a small amount of the language of the countries they live in.

As to today's refugees from the Middle East, Estonia, despite having an already very large immigrant population of Russians, is offering resettled Syrian refugees from the Middle East the equivalent of $28,000 a year per family to live on.
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151008/1028229944/migrants-estonia-eu-money.html

To put this in perspective, Estonians' 2012 gross average income in 2012 U.S. dollars was $18,371, the lowest in Europe, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. This is before national taxes of nearly 33 per cent. So $28,000 is an extremely generous amount for the refugees,or at least it seems so to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage


I also wonder whether some Eastern Europeans' reactions are affected by their previous occupation by the Ottoman Empire, but I don't know enough about this to voice an opinion.

[uawchild]

4. is it actually broad brushing though?

I too am a person of Eastern European descent, with so many "mixed marriages" since my great-grandparents time that it makes for interesting family gatherings. lol Well, more so for my parents and grand parents generations than mine, past grievances and antagonisms seem to have faded away for relatives my age. Soooo, I understand not wanting to see everyone in eastern Europe tarred as a xenophobe. But the trait still runs thru those countries as does simmering antagonisms over past history. ( aside: past history? -- that sounds oxymoronic-- but you know what I mean lol) I think the NY Times article, overall, made valid points.

[LiberalEsto]

6. Calling it a "trait" is broad-brushing Eastern Europeans, wouldn't you say?

I don't think anyone on this planet is born with genes destined to make them xenophobic as adults.

That would be like saying all Jews possess DNA that makes them want to slaughter Palestinians, when there are numerous Jewish people who are appalled by the situation in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. Or that all whites are born hating blacks as a trait.

I'm 3/4 Estonian and 1/4 Ukrainian. My parents came to the U.S. in the late 1940s. Did they have prejudices? Maybe. But around 1960, my 100 percent Estonian father was harassed by some of our Italian-American neighbors for having the nerve to invite a black co-worker to our house for a few hours. The male neighbors came over to call my father a "nigger-lover" and warned him to never bring a black person to the neighborhood again. My father was incensed at their behavior but afraid they'd get violent. He fumed about their ignorance for years. We lived 20 miles outside NYC, so this wasn't the backwoods.

My parents also didn't teach me to hate Jews. In fact I got harassed by classmates in elementary school when I tried to make friends with a quiet girl who was new to the school. They called me a "Jew-lover". I had no idea what they were talking about until my mother explained to me abut prejudice. Mother's own grandfather was a Russian Orthodox priest, theologian and linguist who was literate in Hebrew, Aramaic and many other languages, translated parts of the Bible, and loved and admired the Jewish people. My mother even thought seriously about converting to Judaism late in her life.

Was it a trait in my great-grandfather's DNA makeup to hate Jews, as Eastern Europeans are sometimes accused of doing? Hell, no. My father didn't have some inborn trait that made him hate black people, as Eastern Europeans are sometimes accused of doing. I wasn't born or taught to hate Jews or blacks or anyone else despite my Estonian and Ukrainian DNA. And those Italian-American neighbors didn't hate black people because it was some component of their genetic makeup; it was something they had learned from others.

People who hate people perceived to be different from themselves do so because they weren't raised right, they are surrounded by fellow haters, and they get attention from the media for being loud, obnoxious and violent. Prejudice is not just exclusive Eastern Europe; there are Shiite Muslims warring with Sunni Muslims, Hindus battling Muslims in India, Taiwanese hating those in mainland China, and unfortunately so on and on. An enormous influx of people from a vastly different religion and culture is bound to frighten or concern any group. Adjustment takes time, education and patience on both sides.

[uawchild]

7. um, did you actually look up the definition of "trait"?

"Calling it a "trait" is broad-brushing Eastern Europeans, wouldn't you say? I don't think anyone on this planet is born with genes destined to make them xenophobic as adults. "

Wow, you really either don't know the primary definition of trait, or you are being disingenuous here. No, I don't think calling xenophobia a trait in eastern European countries is broad brushing Eastern Europeans, its merely stating a fact. Did you overlook where I said: "I understand not wanting to see everyone in eastern Europe tarred as a xenophobe. But the trait still runs thru those countries as does simmering antagonisms over past history." I think that is clear I am not calling everyone there a xenophobe, but you seem to want to take issue with the use of the word "trait". Let's check for its primary definitions, ok?

trait
trāt/Submit
noun
a distinguishing quality or characteristic, typically one belonging to a person.
"he was a letter-of-the-law man, a common trait among coaches"

Yeah, like many words, trait has additional secondary definitions, especially when used in science. But THIS is overwhelmingly the primary definition of the word. So, yes, eastern European nations do display, unfortunately, the trait of xenophobia.

Need more proof on the definition? Ok...

"trait
1
n a distinguishing feature of your personal nature"


trait
[treyt; British also trey]
noun
1. a distinguishing characteristic or quality, especially of one's personal nature:
bad traits of character.

==================

I hope this clears up any possible misunderstanding about my use of the word in your mind.

Want to hear other voices on the issue of eastern European nations being xenophobic? There are tons of articles, from reputable people, that characterize these countries as being xenophobic. A case in point...

"Eastern Europe’s Crisis of Shame

Jan T. Gross, Professor of War and Society and Professor of History at Princeton University, is the author of Neighbors: The Destruction of the Jewish Community at Jedwabne, Polish Society Under German Occupation, and Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland After Auschwitz.

BERLIN – As thousands of refugees pour into Europe to escape the horrors of war, with many dying along the way, a different sort of tragedy has played out in many of the European Union’s newest member states. The states known collectively as “Eastern Europe,” including my native Poland, have revealed themselves to be intolerant, illiberal, xenophobic, and incapable of remembering the spirit of solidarity that carried them to freedom a quarter-century ago."

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/eastern-europe-refugee-crisis-xenophobia-by-jan-gross-2015-09

[LiberalEsto]

9. Is it also an Eastern European trait to love pork and sauerkraut?

I don't eat meat, and dislike sauerkraut. What does that make me?

Seems like you want to believe that Eastern Europeans are racist, prejudiced and so on.

I'm saying that the media is focusing on the loudmouths over there. Just because someone is Hungarian or Czech or Slovenian or Lithuanian doesn't make them automatically prejudiced.

[uawchild]

10. you seem intent on flogging a straw man argument.

"Seems like you want to believe that Eastern Europeans are racist, prejudiced and so on."

Ah, the ad hominem attack. Thanks, you lose this discussion. Sorry, but acknowledging racism and xenophobia where it exists is NOT a character flaw, despite how you try to paint it here. Anyone can easily google "eastern europe xenophobia" and see the wealth of legitimate articles on this topic.

"I'm saying that the media is focusing on the loudmouths over there."

Um, like the loudmouths that already have taken over the Presidency in Poland and probably the parliament in the election there today?

"Poles have begun voting in a general election that could result in victory for a rightwing Eurosceptic party at the expense of the ruling pro-EU party. Poland was the only EU nation to avoid recession and it remains one of Europe’s fastest-growing economies. If opinion polls are correct, the country could see its first change of government in eight years, with a clear lead for the rightwing Law and Justice party over the incumbent Civic Platform.

It is not clear if Law and Justice will win enough votes to govern alone or if it will need a coalition partner. The party’s Andrzej Duda won a presidential vote five months ago. The Roman Catholic church backs Law and Justice, which many analysts say will help it claim victory on Sunday. With the churchgoing and rural base apparently in its pocket, Law and Justice has departed from moral issues to run a populist campaign with broad appeal.

The party chairman, Jarosław Kaczyński, has warned of diseases from the 7,000 asylum seekers Poland has agreed to take in."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/25/polish-parliamentary-election-vote-2015

[LiberalEsto]

18. And you are a DU member for TWO WEEKS?

Please.

I am not seeking to win or lose this discussion, as you seem to be.

I think it is dead wrong for anyone on DU to promote negative stereotypes about any ethnic or racial group.

What if someone posted an article that said Latinos are noisy and sexist?
Or an article claiming pushiness and greed were "traits" of Jews?
Or that African-Americans by nature were lazy and prone to crime?

It is just as wrong to promote a stereotype that Eastern Europeans are xenophobic and racist as it is to promote the abovementioned false stereotypes. And just because an article appears in the Noo Yawk Timez doesn't mean it is gospel.

Just because you can find articles on the internet that "say so" doesn't mean that these abominable stereotypes are true, or deserve to be spread around, especially on DU.

I suggest you cease ethnic stereotyping. It does not belong here.

[uawchild]

19. the last refugee of a failed argument

So, it's a matter of post counts now, really?

As for your last post...

"It is just as wrong to promote a stereotype that Eastern Europeans are xenophobic and racist as it is to promote the abovementioned false stereotypes. And just because an article appears in the Noo Yawk Timez doesn't mean it is gospel.

Just because you can find articles on the internet that "say so" doesn't mean that these abominable stereotypes are true, or deserve to be spread around, especially on DU."

So, ignore scholars, ignore the issue, discussing xenophobia and backing it up with references is wrong here on DU? Sorry, but your ignoring any and all facts contrary to your position says more about you than me. Arguments like "And just because an article appears in the Noo Yawk Timez doesn't mean it is gospel" while not addressing what the article actually said, frankly seem lacking.

The problem simply is that xenophobia is a recognized problem in eastern Europe, your hyperbole to the contrary not withstanding. The influx of refugees into and through eastern Europe has brought this issue to the front pages of the media, where, I feel, it deserves to be as a legitimate topic worthy of noting and discussing.

But, as you point out, I am a new poster here, though a long time reader. Please alert on any and all of my posts in this thread. If they actually are as off-base as you seem to think, I would honestly appreciate feedback from the jury system and will abide by their decision and mend my ways. I have striven to be polite and factual in my responses to you, but your straw man arguments and ad hominem attack have become tiring. Please, alert on this thread.

[smirkymonkey]

12. It's the same thing over here. People like Donald Trump

get a lot of press and attention, so the rest of the world thinks that we all think that way about immigrants.

[smirkymonkey]

13. This guy obviously has a bone to pick with Eastern Europe due to the

treatment of the Jews during the holocaust. I would not consider this article to be without extreme prejudice and therefore pretty much useless.

[uawchild]

14. Yeah, what would a Holocaust scholar know about xenophobia... /sarcasm

Last edited Sun Oct 25, 2015, 04:29 PM - Edit history (2)

"This guy obviously has a bone to pick with Eastern Europe due to the treatment of the Jews during the holocaust."

Wow. Ok, Blanket dismissal of the Princeton professor because, in your words, "has a bone to pick" about the Holocaust and hence can't be objective about Eastern Europe. Damn holocaust scholars, what would THEY know about xenophobia, hmmm? OK. Forget that he's a published academic author, we'll trust your judgement on this one... OK, there's more sources, of course.

Hungary's Xenophobia, Europe's Crisis
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-02/hungary-s-xenophobia-europe-s-crisis

Here’s Why Eastern Europe Is So Much More Antagonistic to Syria’s Refugees than Western Europe
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/09/14/here_s_why_eastern_europe_is_so_much_more_antagonistic_to_syria_s_refugees.html

Understanding Xenophobia in Eastern Europe
https://cps.ceu.edu/publications/conference-and-workshop-reports/understanding-xenophobia

Varoufakis on Eastern Europe: 'A Connection Between Austerity and Xenophobia'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interview-with-yanis-varoufakis-on-euro-and-refugee-crisis-a-1056878.html

But, honestly, why do I bother? This has been covered in the media extensively, it's not hard to find information on eastern Europes xenophobic responses to the recent refugee crisis.

[ryan_cats]

17. Let me help

Let me help you. I don't care.

You or the pathetically hyperventilating media aren't going to guilt me into anything. Let their ideological aligned countrymen take them in.

[hfojvt]

8. I think it is based on poverty too

Is Bulgaria really a wealthy nation that can embrace a bunch of immigrants?

I have my doubts.

[smirkymonkey]

11. Thank you for your perspective.

It was very interesting to read and although some here might not condone it, at least it makes it easier for us to understand why Eastern Europe might not be as welcoming to the refugees as other nations.

It still remains a fact however, that the most unwelcoming of all seem to be the other gulf states, who are doing absolutely nothing to help their neighbors.

[Yo_Mama]

15. I think it might be purely hardship. These countries are not rich.

They have endured great hardships since the 2008 crash, and they are laboring along for the most part trying to do the best they can. When significant portions of your own population are in great need, the natural focus is compassion at home.