General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNO NO NO NO FUCK THIS NO NO
First Afghanistan and now fucking Syria!
Hey dumbasses, remember that little mess at the VA you still haven't cleaned up? Maybe you finish taking care of the veterans you have now before you make new ones!
God fucking damn it, do we actually matter to any of you?!
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I would support it more if it was not a war, every time we go somewhere it gets worse.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Do you want them all to be barefoot? Put those boots on the ground!!
Oh, wait: you don't mean "boots", you mean real live, actual breathing people who will die. Yeah, fuck that noise.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Boots (whether ours or somebody else) are needed.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Chemisse
(30,824 posts)raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Child poverty is through the roof. 22 vets commit suicide in the US everyday. Unemployment among minorities, kids dropping out of school. The number of our citizens incarcerated is a national embarrassment. Our roads and bridges are crumbling...
What's wrong with the Saudis? When the last time they sent troops into one of these wars? Why do our leaders continually subject the people in this country to these continuous wars? It's the middle class and poor who end up paying the price.
Not to mention that people in this country are dying due to treatable diseases but we have no right to health care in the US. And our tax dollars subsidize drug R&D, yet that savings isn't passed on to us.
Plus the Saudis & other Arab countries need to be taking in the Syrian refugees; it would be much easier for them to adjust to another society where they didn't have to learn a new language and culture.
classykaren
(769 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)Doctors, Teachers and Engineers will win over the hearts and minds of our enemy faster than bullets.
But, hey, the argument falls apart when you consider... how do we get the oil?
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)many F'en years/decades do we need to spend in the Middle East.
This country, the US, is falling apart. Many in the penthouse just don't get what is happening in this country.
No doubt many in the MIC are celebrating this. It will mean $$$$$$$$$$'s to them. We claim we are a peace loving nation, yet my entire life the US has been engaged in wars leaving a path of death and destruction wherever the US tramples in other nations.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)>>>>
God fucking damn it, do we actually matter to any of you?!>>>>
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And maybe some free pancakes at IHOP once a year.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)But it's WAAAAy bigger than that.
YOU MATTER SO MUCH IN FACT THAT WE NEED TO KNOW THAT *YOU* KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTTNG INTO.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Another cluster fuck in the making...
LiberalArkie
(15,735 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)Waldorf
(654 posts)of "military advisors".
LiberalArkie
(15,735 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)alfredo
(60,082 posts)SP4 James T. Davis first casualty of the Vietnam war. Others died before him, but that was pre war. He was gathering intel on the cong.
https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic_heritage/vigilance_park/origins_of_asa.shtml
jwirr
(39,215 posts)alfredo
(60,082 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)think there are few wars that we get anything back from.
alfredo
(60,082 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)alfredo
(60,082 posts)I lucked out, I was stationed on a volcano in East Africa. My secret was volunteering for Nam. They figured I was nuts, so they put me far away from pretty much everything.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)so intertwined with the rest of it that I do not have much hope.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)A re-entry into war in Iraq.
A new front of war in Syria.
Acts of war in Libya, Sudan, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.
The Obama Doctrine=Bush Lite Doctrine, drone wars of pre-emption.
Targeted, unilateral, assassinations of US citizens abroad.
Guantanamo Bay detention center still open and Obama claims the right to detain indefinitely without charge.
The Nobel Peace Laureate.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Change, my shiny metal ass.
Meet the new boss!
Same as the old boss!
- Pete Townshend
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)I think some people were to busy feeling the "Hope" to read the speeches.
still_one
(92,502 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Lets just give Turkey and Northern Iraq to the Kurds and arm them, since they are the only ones that seem to be able to fight over there.
Too many factions and I strongly suspect IS is a creation of Assad.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...shoulder fired, heat seeking missiles (Stingers, or whatever the Russian counterpart is)
it is Game Over.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)I think the entertainment arm of the war machine could market their industry's wearisome and predictable death cycle better by offering the common man a piece of the action. Code the states and theatres, enumerating the steps in the eternal war dance, and count the number of boots on the ground and dead in the ground. Every week, the master of war ceremonies could just announce the winning combination. The winner gets some of those famous spoils of war, you know, all those empty boots and used guns. This week's lucky numbers are S*1*5*713. Don't forget to buy your ticket! You can't win if you don't play...
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)War now
War forever
Profits trump peace.
A-fucking-men.
Change my shiny metal ass.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)As usual, follow the money trail.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I agree, this is getting problematic.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)dhol82
(9,353 posts)Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)it out to all of his war profiteer cronies??
Peace,
Ghost
Scuba
(53,475 posts)TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)It's playing at the Denver Film Festival next weekend, I think I'll try to go see it.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)We "vote" for whomever the 1% let us vote for.
In the 2008 Presidential Election,
they gave us a choice beween a:
A) a Free Trading, Business Friendly, Wall Street deregulating, low taxes for the RICH, Military Expansionist, Republican,
OR
B) a Free Trading, Business Friendly, Wall Street deregulating, low taxes for the RICH, Military Expansionist, Democrat.
You see.
We never really had any choice.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)the warning signs were all there, we were just told to STFU on them
pansypoo53219
(21,008 posts)jon stewart told us so.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The USA must behave like a drunk loudmouth in a cheap Western.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)His obsession with Putin overrides any concern for the people who will die in that hopeless country.
We're arming Islamists and sending special forces to assist them in establishing Sharia law. Remember those "moderates" we armed who began murdering children for blasphemy? We didn't learn. We don't want to learn. Because all that matters to this administration is fighting Russia.
Sorry. Not a pretty answer but it is the truth. The US military folks are just pawns in the new (imaginary) Cold War.
I will keep you in my thoughts as you're used and discarded by people who don't give a damn. Take heart! You're finding and creating more enemies to support our military-industrial complex. No enemies, no military spending. It helps the economy! Or something.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Auggie
(31,230 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)[img][/img]
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Eff this shite. Why do I get the feeling we are always going to be at war? Our priorities are so far out of whack it isn't funny. The trillions of dollars that go toward funding the military and these pointless wars could do so much good for so many here at home. God, this makes me so angry!
still_one
(92,502 posts)we can afford to take care of our veterans?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)the only real question was; will it be Syria or Iran first?
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Our president lied to us. What else is new?
PADemD
(4,482 posts)How are our troops supposed to recognize who to fight? Whoever is shooting at you?
Joe Turner
(930 posts)was quickly forgotten. The monolithic arms industry in this country makes sure we are in a continual state of war.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)They were warned that they were helping militant Islamic Rebels fighting under the Black Flag (Al Qaeda), but just had to fuck up another stable country in the Middle East.
NonMetro
(631 posts)This won't be the end of it, either. We wait with baited breath to hear the reassurances there won't be any more! You know: so we can be reassured!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)...to the conflict in the Middle East."
Courtesy of Charlie Rose and BloombergTV.
He claims that millennials agree with this 'commitment' because they are signing up for service. It couldn't have anything to do with not having adequate income.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)What a fucking asshole.
cprise
(8,445 posts)The interview will probably appear in the youtube channel in a day or two:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CharlieRose
blackspade
(10,056 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)following the realization that the Iraq war was a debacle (and the surge in anti-war protests).
After a couple years, it was back to business as usual.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)"We have always been at war with..."
cprise
(8,445 posts)I'll have to digitize and upload it.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)in the Military Hardware industry - one of the few that still flourishes here! And with an all-volunteer fighting force (fostered by a dearth of jobs here at home), we've got plenty of anxious mercenary fodder as well. If some of them come home missing a few parts, we'll just find ways to cut the costs of caring for them (something I know about first-hand!). AND...... since alot of them do themselves in, there's calculable savings right there. Enough to give the Koch's a tax break! Just plain (or is it plane) good all around.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)interests does the US have there? I mean, other than getting rid of Assad?
And why is that worth the lives of US service members?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)but to anyone with ready cash.
"Profits trump peace" - some shitheel Texas pol
christx30
(6,241 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is about the only reason I can imagine. And TPTB are gonna make sure there are a lot of desperate poor people in this country for as long into the future as I can see.
LuvNewcastle
(16,867 posts)That's the biggest obstacle to us having free university tuition. Nobody will join the military if they do that.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)niyad
(113,860 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)paleotn
(18,012 posts)....Russia also has boots on the ground. And in the air. And they're actively backing the other side.
littlewolf
(3,813 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Russia has permission to be in Syria. Syria asked for Russia's help. The U.S. does not have permission.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)No more fucking wars!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)(click on the number) is very interesting. Very.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This should have hundreds of recs.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)if not consistent.
rug
(82,333 posts)What to do, what to do . . . .
denem
(11,045 posts)Here we have the closest thing to pure fascism since WWII, but like useful idiots, prior to Operation Barbarossa, the song remains the same: What me worry? Someone else's problem. Endless excuses; Comfortably Numb. Well ... if Deash is not worth opposing with force, then neither was the genocide Rwanda, or whatever else killed the cake. Pathetic.
A word of advice: Don't start reading President Truman anytime soon.
cprise
(8,445 posts)or any number of despotic regimes that the US-NATO empire favors.
Oh, and why are the Five Eyes --- all Anglo countries -- privileged to spy on and manipulate everyone else in the West at the highest levels? There is a fascism in that. Its backed by 800+ military bases around the globe and an arms trade volume to the third world that no one else can approach. We are even willing to play both sides of a conflict (defined as a type of genocide).
Unknowingly or not, you're spouting neocon rhetoric. Long-term destabilization and strife AND stoking terrorism against the west is hardly any way to deal with established despots who come down hard on rioters.
Our foreign policy is NOT about democracy and freedom, its about alignment with (integration into) our economic and client-state (banana republic) frameworks.... peace and stability be damned for anyone who dares to buck the empire.
UTUSN
(70,783 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)but you probably knew that already.
CarlaJonesChicago
(23 posts)Excuse you! First off do you get how and why we are over there to start off? But did they answer for ANY of that crap? No! So wtf are you here asking us? Tony Blair owned up to his part and why can't the Bush Administration do the same? Why o why can't they attempt to help end this b.s.? I don't think we want more people over there! My mom works for the VA and they been fucked up for awhile. I wonder why? No, I don't. I know already! Do you think he just came to that conclusion this morning? How many other people are in this? I mean military people. Why don't you ask the Republican party? Ask Trump, Carson, Chris, Carly, Ted, Marco , Rand, Robbie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike while you at it!
Do I like that people are going over there? Hell no! But guess what when you do fucked up shit you pay for it one way or another! Stopacting like President Obama was suppose to be Jesus. He is a man that has to make shitty decisions just like others before him! Yes, we dont like this but its happening. So you think you can run this messy ass country who hates everybody then you run and win and see what you do! Hell everyone else is running, with NO EXPERIENCE. You might win.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Because - I dunno where you've been for seven years - the republican party does not control the executive branch.
Now somehow, Bill Clinton managed to get us the fuck out of that box of turds Poppy gave him as a housewarming gift in Somalia. Are the people who took over Somalia nice, wonderful men? Absolutely not, but we still got the fuck out of there, and it's good that we did.
The only acceptable answer from the US to Syria is this:
marym625
(17,997 posts)I care, little good that does anyone.
I have an idea! Let's vote for another hawk! Warmonger a go go. Can't say anything about Bush Cheney Powell and Wolfowitz being caught with their.... I won't say it here... And the fact Clinton had the emails proving their war crimes for nearly a decade doesn't matter...no press about it. Not a word in congress or the justice department. We need to elect the next warmonger!!!
FUCK THIS! God damn! Sick pieces of shit! Just go kill our children, fuck the people of Syria. Play games with Russia. Who needs Republicans? We've got big money in third way wars!
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)So, take it up with the American voter.
neverforget
(9,437 posts)Afghanistan is falling apart so we can't leave.
"I'm escalating the war in Afghanistan." doesn't absolve President Obama for his choices in Iraq and Syria.
still_one
(92,502 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Not. He apologizes for your being confused.
still_one
(92,502 posts)addition, Kerry has been meeting with Russia, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia discussing the situation in Syria.
It would be nice to understand the entire situation instead of the typical sky is falling, Obama is bad, etc. etc. etc.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)There was an alleged incident recently where the Kurdish forces received an airdrop of weapons, and were bombed shortly after by the Turkish airforce.
still_one
(92,502 posts)Munificence
(493 posts)we live in where we help the Kurds and Turks and the Turks blow the shit out of the Kurds.
How long until the Kurds say "fuck this shit" and turn against us?
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)The US needs the right to join in on the resolution conflicts. Without involvement, we would be left out of the process.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)Darb
(2,807 posts)I trust Obama to do what he thinks is necessary. It is a mess and if O thinks we need 50, read it, FIFTY special ops guys in the theater then I support it. This mess isn't going away if we pull chocks and go home, it will likely get much worse. We have our role and I trust Barack to do what is in our best interest, irrespective of what tantrums are thrown on the DU.
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)I'm looking at several global scale issues and a whole raft of important domestic issues and I can't find a one that depends upon the outcome in Syria. So ... what agenda is really being served? Human rights? OK ... but no one has identified a political focus in the Syrian opposition that we can comfortably assume will prove superior in that regard to Assad.
There may be a legitimate purpose to this ... but as a citizen I have a right to know what that purpose is perceived to be. I voted for Obama thrice, proud to say (once in the 2008 primary and in the two general elections) but that doesn't mean he has my blind trust.
50 Special Ops guys you say ... oh, dear. You really haven't seen this movie before, have you?
Trav
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)So he lied...again
I will not vote for another conservative democrat, ever
paulbibeau
(743 posts)The idea that we can back a couple of militia groups, train some people we like, and bring about a good political situation in a chaotic war - even if you define "good" really, really charitably - is nonsense. We tried this. We're not good at it.
There are SO many ways for us to help ease suffering in Syria without killing Americans.
alfredo
(60,082 posts)It is . simply an ego trip for putin and Obama.
Obama got drubbed for his red line in syria and putin drew a line and went in and is kicking ass which makes the US look bad both militarily and diplomatically.
I do agree with the other vets on this thread, sending in 50 SO types as targets for russia, isis and al queda is a stupid idea.
You know they will get embedded with the 'rebel' forces like the last bunch where the trainees all joined isis or AQ, big difference now is the revels are in russias bombsights so the 50 (right 50 lol) SO troops will be the next batch of tbi/prosthetic needs of the VA.
alfredo
(60,082 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)When Bush and his cronies invaded Iraq they opened up Pandora's box. The Shia and Sunni have been at each others throats for 1500 years. The only stable governments have been vicious dictatorships. Mix in tribalism and suppression of women for a perfect storm. We have very little in common with this mix of cultures except sharing the same planet.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Strangely quiet!
Charlie Brown
(2,797 posts)Even then, Obama said he would not send in ground troops.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-in-2013-i-will-not-put-american-boots-on-the-ground-in-syria/
This mission is not against Assad, it's against IS, and it will probably be a lot messier and strategically confusing than the Libya-like air war that was envisioned in 2013.
The fact that the units our forces are advising are almost entirely Kurds could blow up in our face with the friction that exists between Kurds, Arabs, Turks & the entrance of Russian forces has greatly compounded the risk of this intervention.
I can't comprehend how anyone Obama or Hillary listens to believes this is a good idea, or what the definition of "victory' is supposed to mean.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)An Afghanistan or Syria much longer. Pick your poison, flood, heat, drout or fire. I've been trying to find out if that massive fire that was still burning in a whole lot of Syria 2 months ago was ever put out. I believe nobody was working on it when I read about it last and the war was continuing with the fighters constantly having to move away miles away from the fire.