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Sun Nov 22, 2015, 07:35 PM

JFK

“ Finally, it should be clear by now that a nation can be no stronger abroad than she is at home. Only an America which practices what it preaches about equal rights and social justice will be respected by those whose choice affects our future. Only an America which has fully educated its citizens is fully capable of tackling the complex problems and perceiving the hidden dangers of the world in which we live. And only an America which is growing and prospering economically can sustain the worldwide defenses of freedom, while demonstrating to all concerned the opportunities of our system and society.”


The above quote is from the speech that President John F. Kennedy planned to deliver in Dallas, on this day in 1963. The full speech is available by simply “googling: on the internet It is definitely worth reading.

In the decades since JFK’s death, there have been attempts to discredit him for a variety of reasons. By no coincidence whatsoever, the vast majority of these complaints sound indistinguishable from Richard Nixon’s petty resentments. Certainly, JFK was human, and was thus imperfect.

Others focus on his policies -- for example, relating to Vietnam -- and his administration’s legislative record. These are obviously important issues, and the source of meaningful study and discussion. Yet, it is important to do so in the context of a presidency that was unfinished, and within the social-political reality of the day. Again, the vast majority of his detractors sound rather republican -- especially when on the internet, they pretend to be otherwise.

These people lack the capacity to recognize those traits that real Democrats and members of the Democratic Left value …..including, of course, about JFK.

Peace,
H2O Man

43 replies, 3021 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply JFK (Original post)
H2O Man Nov 2015 OP
Rex Nov 2015 #1
jaysunb Nov 2015 #2
Rex Nov 2015 #3
H2O Man Nov 2015 #6
voteearlyvoteoften Nov 2015 #4
H2O Man Nov 2015 #7
femmedem Nov 2015 #5
H2O Man Nov 2015 #8
Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #9
H2O Man Nov 2015 #16
hifiguy Nov 2015 #10
cpwm17 Nov 2015 #13
H2O Man Nov 2015 #18
cpwm17 Nov 2015 #20
H2O Man Nov 2015 #22
villager Nov 2015 #32
dflprincess Nov 2015 #14
H2O Man Nov 2015 #19
H2O Man Nov 2015 #17
mountain grammy Nov 2015 #11
H2O Man Nov 2015 #21
lovemydog Nov 2015 #12
H2O Man Nov 2015 #24
ms liberty Nov 2015 #15
H2O Man Nov 2015 #25
ucrdem Nov 2015 #23
H2O Man Nov 2015 #26
ucrdem Nov 2015 #27
H2O Man Nov 2015 #28
ucrdem Nov 2015 #29
mountain grammy Nov 2015 #31
CanSocDem Nov 2015 #36
Mopar151 Nov 2015 #30
H2O Man Nov 2015 #37
Punkingal Nov 2015 #33
H2O Man Nov 2015 #38
Hekate Nov 2015 #34
H2O Man Nov 2015 #39
Scuba Nov 2015 #35
H2O Man Nov 2015 #40
Sensitive soul Nov 2015 #41
G_j Nov 2015 #42
spanone Nov 2015 #43

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 07:41 PM

1. Ford should have never been allowed to pardon Nixon.

 

They didn't care about conflict of interest then and they don't care about it now.

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Response to Rex (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:02 PM

2. Ford was correct in the pardon of Nixon.

But, he should have waited until he had been tried and convicted.

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Response to jaysunb (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:05 PM

3. HA! Excellent point! I stand corrected!

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:23 PM

6. I agree 100%.

I do think that Nixon's legal team could likely have partially frustrated the prosecution by making an issue "national security" .....by attempting to claim the ex-president needed to bring all types of state secrets to the table, in order to defend himself. However, the recent book of transcripts of White House tapes (Douglas Brinkley's "The Nixon Tapes: 1`973) shows that Nixon was paranoid that his use of the infamous "Huston Plan" was grounds for impeachment and conviction. It wouldn't have been exactly for Watergate -- but it was actually much larger.

That the issues involving the Huston Plan were never really addressed, we ended up with an updated version of it, known as The Patriot Act."

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:20 PM

4. Thank you for the quote

Right now more than ever.

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Response to voteearlyvoteoften (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:24 PM

7. Definitely.

My pleasure. I'm glad that you like the quote, and appreciate how timely it is.

Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:30 PM

5. Always so good to hear your thoughtful voice. n/t

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Response to femmedem (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:25 PM

8. Well, thank you!

I really appreciate your kind words.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:32 PM

9. Our Dear President Kennedy...

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:45 PM

16. "Anybody here seen my

old friend John? Can you tell me where he's gone? He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young. I just looked around and he's gone."
-- Dion

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 09:53 PM

10. The 52nd anniversary of the day

 

democracy died. By the order of Allen Dulles.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:32 PM

13. Science and the overwhelming evidence doesn't agree with you.

 


Assassin with murder weapon

It's not nice to absolve an assassin of a terrible crime or to falsely accuse another of murder, even if the falsely accused is a horrible person.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:51 PM

18. Thank you

for your interest and participation on this OP/thread. Since discussing JFK's death isn't allowed on DU:GD, I'd appreciate if that could be avoided here. The OP is meaningful -- at least to some of the DU community -- and the OP's quote from the President's planned speech is worthy of discussion.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:54 PM

20. If you noticed, I wasn't the one that brought it up.

 

Someone else was pushing nonsense.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:59 PM

22. I noticed.

Hence, I made the same polite, sincere request of each of the three friends here who had discussed that.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:28 AM

32. Yes indeed, increasingly overwhelming evidence doesn't agree with you:

 

A CIA Tie to JFK Assassination? Book on Ex-Director Allen Dulles Questions Agency's Role

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/19/a_cia_tie_to_jfk_assassination

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #10)


Response to dflprincess (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:52 PM

19. Thank you.

Since discussions of JFK's death are not allowed on DU:GD, I'd appreciate it if it wasn't added to this OP/thread. Thanks!

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:48 PM

17. Thank you!

It is the anniversary.

As interesting as some conversations might be, DU:GD does not allow for discussing the reasons JFK was killed. I would really appreciate it if it wasn't brought up on an OP/thread I start.I think we can honor JFK, and more importantly, communicate his message today.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:02 PM

11. I guess you had to be there. I'm glad I was.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:58 PM

21. Right!

There are some things that one can't fully "learn" without the experience. Thus, while there are great books and documentaries on the decade of the Sixties -- definitely including President Kennedy -- I like to compare them to my own memories of that bygone era.

Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:23 PM

12. I'm too young to remember him

but my parents loved him and they like President Obama too. People I admire and respect speak highly of him. His brother Bobby too. And Ted, it's been said by people with wisdom, probably did as much in the Senate for the poor and disadvantaged as anyone in its history.

Thanks for the excellent post.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:07 PM

24. Thank you!

My children are convinced that I'm old enough to remember the day President Lincoln was first elected.

I consider myself a "Kennedy Democratic," primarily, in terms of organized politics. While the 1960 campaign did make use of much of the party's leaders and upper-structures, RFK invested in people at the grass roots level, too. The combination of RFK's organizational skills then, in his Senate campaign in '64, and his presidential run in '68, should be studied by liberal and progressive activists here.

Teddy certainly ranks high among this nation's greatest Senators.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 10:40 PM

15. Timely quote. I had not realized today's date...

So many democrats today espouse views that are the antithesis of JFK, RFK, FDR; and they seem so proud of it. Amazing how often it can be seen right here on DU. I may have to start putting people on ignore; "letting it sink" only goes so far, lol!

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:18 PM

25. Right.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think that if the RFK of 1968 were alive today, he would be running for president, because he would feel obligated, due to the crises this nation faces. And no doubt, some of our friends here would view him as a wild-eyed mad man, and damaging to the Democratic Party. And, heck, can you imagine how the media would treat him?

I've never used the "ignore" option, formally, but there are a few individuals who I have no interest in communicating with. And I appreciate your "let it sink" comment; strange how that's changed.

It's always a pleasure to talk with you! Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:06 PM

23. He praised Fidel Castro as an heir of Bolívar

and repeatedly warned against getting drawn into a quagmire in Indochina (Vietnam). The Vietnam war is not JFK's legacy though many would like us to believe otherwise. It is LBJ's and it made his friends at Brown and Root, aka KBR, rich. Here's JFK on Latin American revolutionary movements, specifically Cuba's:

Just as we must recall our own revolutionary past in order to understand the spirit and the significance of the anti-colonial uprisings in Asia and Africa, we should now reread the life of Simón Bolívar, the great "Liberator" ... of South America, in order to comprehend the new contagion for liberty and reform now spreading south of our borders. (Strategy of Peace, p. 167)


This is not cold warrior or a moderate speaking; these are the words of a Massachusetts liberal.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:19 PM

26. Outstanding!

I agree with you completely. And I admire your skills in communicating. Well done, and thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:21 PM

27. Thanks H2O man that is high praise and the feeling is mutual!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #27)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:34 PM

28. Per LBJ:

Even among good people who take “politics” seriously, very few are aware of how VP Johnson -- a politician who had a limited background in international issues -- was frequently “updated” on Vietnam by sources within the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It’s not that other vice presidents never received intelligence reports: Nixon, for example, was not only updated, but was influential in these matters in South and Central America. But he was big on international policy, with far less interest in domestic issues -- the opposite of LBJ. More importantly, President Kennedy and most of his administration were unaware that LBJ was getting such updates.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 22, 2015, 11:45 PM

29. I wonder who he passed that info along to.

Yes that is disturbing. I want to like LBJ, and I do like his support for Kennedy's anti-poverty and civil rights initiatives, but Vietnam was a catastrophe that had no business happening. David Talbot in Brothers all but lays blame for Nov. 22 at LBJ's feet, along with a few others including Allen Dulles. But for the record he doesn't actually claim that any individual is guilty at least in Brothers.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:13 AM

31. That's interesting, especially the administration being unaware of the updates.

Why was that?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:02 AM

36. "Regime Change" was in the works...

 



...and a suitable replacement was being groomed. I'm surprised they waited 4 days before they reversed JFK's policy.




.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:04 AM

30. The sad thing

Is the # of Republicans in particular, and politicans in general, willing to spill blood and waste treasure over these "petty resentments".

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Response to Mopar151 (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:26 AM

37. True.

We are in a dark time, and virtually every republican candidate for president is advocating the taking of a deep plunge into a darker place.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:03 AM

33. Thanks for the post...JFK ignited my interest in politics. I was a 5th grader when he was elected.

I admired him tremendously, and I have never stopped. It was a great loss, and I still remember my grief. Same with RFK. We haven't seen anything like them since, and we so desperately need their like now.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:27 AM

38. Right.

My extended family worked hard for JFK's election. He was the first politician that I ever knew or cared about.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:50 AM

34. Thanks, H2O Man. I'm utterly baffled at one of the threads I just read.

Do some people here just flat-out hate Democrats, all Democrats? Nothing, and I mean nothing, is ever good enough for them. I must be missing something -- I have never asked for, nor expected, my heroes to be plaster saints.

I was 16 when JFK's life was cut short, certainly old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Berlin Wall going up, the battle for integration, and so much more.

And on this the anniversary of his assassination, there are people on this site doing the dirty business of Nixon's and Rove's Right Wing.

I don't get it.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:31 AM

39. The sad thing is

that you do "get it" -- the proof being this: "there are people on this site doing the dirty business of Nixon and Rove's Right Wing."

It really is that simple. One can debate if they do so purposely, or are simply parrots chattering that which they do not understand. But, neither of these options makes for meaningful contributions to a democratic discussion forum.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:39 AM

35. Thank you H2O Man for the quote and history lesson.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:32 AM

40. Thanks!

JFK remains my favorite US President of my lifetime.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:36 PM

41. Good job H2O Man

As usual!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:41 PM

42. thank you

well done

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:44 PM

43. K&R...

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