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Thu Dec 10, 2015, 02:43 AM

Since a lot of people want to label GMO food here is what I propose.

We can do that but we should also label non GMO food with "can kill you" since all of the food born deaths have been from non GMO. Here is a handy list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foodborne_illness_outbreaks_by_death_toll
Seems fair since GMO food has yet to kill anyone while the non GMO has actually killed people.

44 replies, 2588 views

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Reply Since a lot of people want to label GMO food here is what I propose. (Original post)
Eko Dec 2015 OP
Mika Dec 2015 #1
Eko Dec 2015 #2
eridani Dec 2015 #3
Eko Dec 2015 #4
killbotfactory Dec 2015 #6
Eko Dec 2015 #9
killbotfactory Dec 2015 #11
Eko Dec 2015 #13
HereSince1628 Dec 2015 #29
AlbertCat Dec 2015 #40
Eko Dec 2015 #24
eridani Dec 2015 #8
Ghost Dog Dec 2015 #21
Eko Dec 2015 #22
Ghost Dog Dec 2015 #32
Eko Dec 2015 #5
Eko Dec 2015 #7
killbotfactory Dec 2015 #10
Eko Dec 2015 #12
killbotfactory Dec 2015 #15
Eko Dec 2015 #17
killbotfactory Dec 2015 #19
Eko Dec 2015 #20
Eko Dec 2015 #14
nationalize the fed Dec 2015 #16
Eko Dec 2015 #18
nationalize the fed Dec 2015 #25
Eko Dec 2015 #23
MattSh Dec 2015 #26
GoneFishin Dec 2015 #27
Person 2713 Dec 2015 #28
Major Nikon Dec 2015 #30
Ghost Dog Dec 2015 #33
Major Nikon Dec 2015 #36
Ghost Dog Dec 2015 #38
Major Nikon Dec 2015 #41
Ghost Dog Dec 2015 #42
closeupready Dec 2015 #35
Major Nikon Dec 2015 #37
Javaman Dec 2015 #31
jwirr Dec 2015 #34
EndElectoral Dec 2015 #39
GreatGazoo Dec 2015 #43
Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2015 #44

Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 03:33 AM

1. Maybe you didn't notice. Your list is of toxic bacteria.

 

Lots of bacteria on/in GMO foods too, FYI.


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Response to Mika (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:28 AM

2. Since the bacteria comes from fertilzer for the most part

and GMO foods need less that should be a boon. Less bacterial infections.

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Response to Eko (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:42 AM

3. Use of Roundup has dramaticalliy increased since resistant GMO plants introduced n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:46 AM

4. Funny,

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:53 AM

9. Whatever,

argue the point. Non GMO has killed people, GMO has not.

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Response to Eko (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:55 AM

11. The link you posted in the OP doesn't say if anything was GMO or not

half the cases, which are rare, were from meat products.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:59 AM

13. Show me a food where it killed someone

because it was GMO. Show me.

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Response to Eko (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:24 AM

29. Don't you even -suspect- that gmo and non-gmo foods share some risks?

I would think bacterial contamination that causes food-borne illness would likely be in a list of shared risks.

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Response to Eko (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:06 PM

40. because it was GMO

 

The "food that killed" didn't do so because it was "organic", y'know....


Or maybe you don;'t know.... because your argument is so stupid as to be a joke.


And I'm no anti-GMO hysteric. ALL food is "organic", unless it's made of plastic or paper mâché.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:40 AM

24. And since we dont have GMO meat we can immediately discount half then.

You are welcome to make your case for the other half. I will not hold my breath.

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Response to Eko (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:52 AM

8. Wrong

Pesticide Use Ramping Up As GMO Crop Technology Backfires

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/312-16/13767-pesticide-use-ramping-up-as-gmo-crop-technology-backfires

US farmers are using more hazardous pesticides to fight weeds and insects due largely to heavy adoption of genetically modified crop technologies that are sparking a rise of "superweeds" and hard-to-kill insects, according to a newly released study.

Genetically engineered crops have led to an increase in overall pesticide use, by 404 million pounds from the time they were introduced in 1996 through 2011, according to the report by Charles Benbrook, a research professor at the Center for Sustaining Agriculture and Natural Resources at Washington State University.

Of that total, herbicide use increased over the 16-year period by 527 million pounds while insecticide use decreased by 123 million pounds.

Benbrook's paper -- published in the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Sciences Europe over the weekend and announced on Monday -- undermines the value of both herbicide-tolerant crops and insect-protected crops, which were aimed at making it easier for farmers to kill weeds in their fields and protect crops from harmful pests, said Benbrook.

Herbicide-tolerant crops were the first genetically modified crops introduced to world, rolled out by Monsanto Co. in 1996, first in "Roundup Ready" soybeans and then in corn, cotton and other crops. Roundup Ready crops are engineered through transgenic modification to tolerate dousings of Monsanto's Roundup herbicide.

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Response to eridani (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:16 AM

21. "superweeds" and hard-to-kill insects

 

This is the major problem with GMO: their effect on natural selection processes in the nearby surrounding ecosystem.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:20 AM

22. Any pesticide creates that,

its biology 101, sheesh, and since GMO's require less pesticides it will help stop that.

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Response to Eko (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:43 AM

32. Not only.

 

Natural selection in neighboring species populations is affected by the presence of the GMOs (yes, and any domesticated and non-domesticated species) themselves. In the case of GMOs engineered to be particularly pest-resistant, the pests evolve, so as a consequence new pesticides tend to get developed and/or pesticide use tends to increase in the context of the industrialized, energy-inefficient, corporate-controlled agriculture, horticulture and animal-'husbandry' in which such technology is being employed in a way always designed to benefit corporate controllers, owners and shareholders long before any thought might be given to the consequences, proven or yet to be proven, for the human population at large, its social wellbeing and its natural environment.

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Response to eridani (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:48 AM

5. But whatever, lets get back to the point.

Non GMO foods kill people every year, gmo has killed no one, ever. Cant we label non gmo with "kills people"? Its the truth.

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Response to eridani (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:51 AM

7. Im even good with

"GMO food may cause long term harmful side effects" while non GMO food "may cause death". That is the truth. Period.

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Response to Eko (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:53 AM

10. improper handling of anything causes foodbourne illness.

it's one of the reasons why we should pay food service employees a living wage.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:56 AM

12. Whatever,

You show me where GMO food is more dangerous than non GMO food via record of deaths.

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Response to Eko (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:06 AM

15. I don't think GMO is dangerous in that way.

It's danger is the same as introducing a foreign species on a landmass that didn't evolve with it, like Kudzu in the south, or like when cane toads got introduced to Australia. Take a native plant and change it enough through genetic modification, and it could have unintended consequences which I have never seen anyone pro-GMO even consider as possible, since they've been deemed safe for human consumption.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:09 AM

17. Cool,

so lets label GMO's with "may have unintended consequences" while we label non GMO with "can kill you".

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Response to Eko (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:12 AM

19. Let's just label everything with "can kill you" while we are at it. nt

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:14 AM

20. Seeing as how there have been no reported deaths from GMO's

no.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:04 AM

14. I can show actual deaths from non GMO food

and you cant show me any from GMO and I am supposed to be scared of GMO? Prove me wrong and I will change my mind, show me where GMO's kill more than non GMO's. Ridiculous. Boogeyman indeed.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:08 AM

16. I'm with Tulsi



Jul 23, 2015: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) calls for common-sense labeling of GMO foods and urges colleagues to vote against the Safe and Accurate Food Labeling Act, also known as the Deny Americans the Right to Know (DARK) Act, which would roll back years of progress in ensuring that food with genetically engineered ingredients is properly labeled.

"The DARK Act actually stands in direct contradiction to the wishes of almost 90% of Americans across the country. This legislation makes a mockery of transparency and leaves U.S. consumers in the dark."

Official House Page: http://gabbard.house.gov/
More videos https://www.youtube.com/user/tulsipress
More info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard
Website: https://www.votetulsi.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard #TeamTulsi


Best thing to happen to Democrats since JFK

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:10 AM

18. Refer to post 14.

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Response to Eko (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:49 AM

25. I'll go with a scientist

I Used to Work as a Scientist with GMOs—Now I'm Having Serious Second Thoughts About The Risks

I believe that GMO crops still run far ahead of our understanding of their risks.
By Jonathan Latham, PhD

http://www.alternet.org/food/i-used-work-scientist-gmos-now-im-having-serious-second-thoughts-about-risks

No GMO's in my kitchen. None. No Beet sugar, contaminated corn syrup, none. zero.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:32 AM

23. So, not a single instance of GMO's killing someone

while non GMO's have. Not one. Hyperbolic bogyman indeed.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:57 AM

26. Countries that require GMO's be labeled. Backward countries all...

no doubt..

Definitely not as enlightened as the USA, that's for sure!

Labeling Around the World | Just Label It

Below is a full list of countries that require labeling (courtesy of The Center for Food Safety):

Australia
Austria
Belarus
Belgium
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Bulgaria
Cameroon
China
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Ecuador
El Salvador
Estonia
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Mali
Malta
Mauritius
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Tunisia
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Vietnam

-----> http://www.justlabelit.org/right-to-know-center/labeling-around-the-world/

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Response to MattSh (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:53 AM

27. That's because they are all anti-science stupid stupidheads.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 08:06 AM

28. Lower grade school logic

Nope edit to lower ele grade school i was
insulting middle schoolers

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:41 AM

30. It doesn't seem to matter to many that the science based argument for labeling is non-existent

When you press them for a reason why they want labeling, it's inevitably winds up being "because I want it" or "other countries already do it". When there are exactly zero people who have died or even sickened by anything that is directly attributable to GMO after decades of use, there simply is no rational argument for it.

If you really want to hear the sound of crickets, just mention mutation breeding. If the anti-GMO crowd were genuinely afraid of GMO, they would be scared shitless of mutation breeding, yet surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) there's zero effort to label it. Some products produced by mutation breeding are even labeled organic because they are fully eligible to be certified under the NOP, while GMO is not. Very telling that. When you find out about things like that you realize the "organic" label is really nothing more than a marketing term which is now fully under the control of moneyed interests and the effort to label GMO is really nothing more than the attempt at using the power of government to grab market share for those moneyed interests. Science, reason, and the public interest has exactly zero to do with it.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:17 PM

33. Your statements do not logically 'add up'.

 

People want labeling along with other information so that they can make informed choices.

You cannot prove no people have died from eating food including GMO ingredients. It is logically impossible to prove a negative. So there is no rational argument in your favor on that count, sorry.

Genetic engineering can be simply described a a process of 'cutting and splicing' genetic material to and from anywhere in the gene pool of life on this planet, under total human (corporate) control. Breeding can be described as a process whereby natural selection is influenced by human intervention in this natural process, selecting for desired traits as they emerge. There is a great difference. Some extreme forms of mutation breeding (the process of exposing seeds to chemicals or radiation in order to generate mutants with desirable traits to be bred), especially if in breeding animals, could well be considered inappropriate.

If corporate interests are corrupting and contaminating truly organic products in the USA then, you are right, labeling products 'Organic' would be of little use to the discerning mind. Labeling products as 'GMO', by contrast, would be both unambiguous and useful to people who want to know.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 02:20 PM

36. Perhaps, but you certainly haven't made a case for that

People want labeling along with other information so that they can make informed choices.

Like I said, "because I want it" is the best answer you get.

You cannot prove no people have died from eating food including GMO ingredients. It is logically impossible to prove a negative. So there is no rational argument in your favor on that count, sorry.

Nor is this what I claimed, which means you either didn't read or comprehend what I wrote, or you are simply making strawman gibberish here.


Genetic engineering can be simply described a a process of 'cutting and splicing' genetic material to and from anywhere in the gene pool of life on this planet, under total human (corporate) control. Breeding can be described as a process whereby natural selection is influenced by human intervention in this natural process, selecting for desired traits as they emerge. There is a great difference. Some extreme forms of mutation breeding (the process of exposing seeds to chemicals or radiation in order to generate mutants with desirable traits to be bred), especially if in breeding animals, could well be considered inappropriate.

Sure, nothing more natural than bombarding seeds with ionizing radiation to produce completely random mutations.

If corporate interests are corrupting and contaminating truly organic products in the USA then, you are right, labeling products 'Organic' would be of little use to the discerning mind. Labeling products as 'GMO', by contrast, would be both unambiguous and useful to people who want to know.

What is that use? Just like everyone else who "wants" labeling, you have failed to provide anything that approaches a rational reason. And no, appeal to nature fallacies don't count.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 03:56 PM

38. Yes, because people want to make the informed choice, a rational motivation

 

and reasonable in a democracy. This is DU and that is what labeling would enable.

My personal rational reasons, as, amongst other things, an environmental sciences graduate from the 1970s, include the desire to be able to make choices which might help to avoid or mitigate possible ecosystemic risks from predictable and unpredictable effects on the modified and associated species arising from the use of genetic engineering, and a desire to resist the control and contamination of food chains, human beings, their societies and the natural environment by monopolistic and corrupt crony-corporations.

Your rational reasons against labeling?

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:07 PM

41. The FDA doesn't regulate the food and drug supply based on political want

It regulates the food and drug supply based on health needs. So if you can articulate a reason that's within the scope of what the FDA regulates, then do so. As yet I haven't seen you or anyone else supply anything remotely approaching a reason based on a rational health risk. The FDA and the USDA should not be used to promote mandatory labeling for political or moneyed interests that have nothing to do with public health concerns, so the reasons you supplied are actually an excellent reason why such labeling should not be supported.

Your rational reasons against labeling?


As I told another poster, I feel no obligation to argue against something that was never justified to begin with. That's a fool's errand. For further reading see...

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:24 PM

42. Good, then, I agree.

 

Food product labeling does not fall within the scope of what the FDA regulates. Agreed.

It is a political issue requiring a political executive decision and not within the set of subjects amenable to scientific analysis (beyond political, economic and associated social sciences, that is). If the FDA has indeed been formally empowered to decide, unscientifically, on the issue of labeling, then that power has been delegated, I would suggest improperly, by the political executive and should be recovered by the same.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:52 PM

35. Unless you won the Nobel Prize for biotechnology, you aren't persuasive here.

 

Sorry, try again.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 02:24 PM

37. I really feel no need to persuade anyone who never made a persuasive argument to begin with

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 10:16 AM

31. Oh FFS...



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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:45 PM

34. I understand that the TPP has a section in it that will allow

the import of a lot of food items that are grown with non-FDA processes. That is why they do not want labeling.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 03:58 PM

39. Fine with me. Label both and let the people decide what they wish to buy.

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:36 PM

43. How about a label with the amount of pesticide residue as confirmed by an independent lab?

that would cut through to the real issue -- the "RoundUp Ready" thing.

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2015/05/monsanto-syngenta-merger-45-billion-pesticides

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Response to Eko (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:41 PM

44. Why is agribusiness afraid of labeling such benevolent food?

 

In fact, you'd think they'd be anxious to promote it. Even compete. i.e. Wheaties has even more Super Healthy GMO grain than other brands!! "Get more GMO in Cheetos!!"

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